***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Belgium]

Reminds me of CL-1B .
Remember him? lol.

I remember his constant whining that he was supposedly being singled out by admins for his conservative views. And of course his insistance that he wasn't racist.
Eventually the charade collapsed and he went fullblown nazi apologist.

 

[dwalk31]

dwalk31 thoughts?

I think it unwise to compare tragedies.

Hopefully we don't reach the level of flu deaths with COVID-19.

 

[ccastro02]

I remember his constant whining that he was supposedly being singled out by admins for his conservative views. And of course his insistance that he wasn't racist.
Eventually the charade collapsed and he went fullblown nazi apologist.

Yeap, good times. He caught a nice case of the banz. lol.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I used the word demeanor because you did earlier. I conceded that his inaction likely contributed to a loss of life from people that base their healthcare decisions on his words.

Certainly concerning. Like I have said for a long time, Trump can and should do better with a lot of the things he says and does.

I just wanted to point out the very nature of a contagious virus, is that you get it from other people. People practicing social distancing can be infected or immuno compromised through no fault of their own. It impacts more than just people who didn’t take it seriously like trump. People did everything right can and have been impacted by people who they have no control over. The presidents demeanor (and actions) hurt more than just the people who make their medical decisions based on him. So we shouldn’t frame the potential impacted people so narrowly.

 

[Deleted member 42060]

Like you said, I have been here a while, but the calling out generally started with this particular administration.

So the questions of some NTers are: Why and What.

Why do support x,y,z besides for money?
What is your intention?
Why do you think Trump has no intent to deceive? Inexperience?

Its easy to say you don't know, Trump doesn't know. Only Trump knows. This runaround seems like a big denial, ignorance, vague, trollish way of not being explicit.

Not being specific.

Not holding accountability. Looking for good approval ratings and praise, and eventually persuading people he has adequately done a good job to be reeelcted.

Providing alternate facts or excuses instead of direct truth and accuracy.

Treating things as an assumption, even treating statements from Trumps mouth as not having experience.

Treating Trump as two different individuals before becoming President and during his presidency.

Leadership requires the knowldege and experience he didnt have before and during his presidency. The reality is that Trump has the unofficial power to cover his own corrupt ways with any motives he has while attacking those who go against him.

Trump has proven enough he is not capable or fit to be a real President. Please stop providing alternate assumptions and excuses and theories. The truth is evident. Trump does not deserve full credit for a half assed job.

Name calling or mockery are examples of sarcastic frustration to why some of us are not getting a good, true, sufficient, and specific answer from you. So the conclusion is that you are or you behave like a troll. You see some posters are implementing your type or way of responding.

 

[dwalk31]

So you're not alleging any double standard or bias on the part of our staff - just hypocrisy among some of the regular posters, is that correct?

Still, I must wonder how you've arrived at that conclusion.

Let's take this one, for example:

This claim hinges on the assumption that deuce king knows that you're not White and is making this statement to disrespect you. How do you establish that he knows what he's saying is untrue?

You then make a general assumption that other participants are also aware of this, agree that it would be disrespectful under other circumstances, and have decided that it's okay.
How do you substantiate this?

Yes, to the first question.

As it relates to deuce king , I said that his statement wasn't a lie because he doesn't have the requisite knowledge.

But It is disrespectful because he continued calling me that after being informed, by me, that I wasn't. And me clarifying that it was offensive. In this respect, it is like any other name-calling.

Whether it is a lie or not is irrelevant. But It is clear disrespect.

And not speaking up on that disrespect, while spending pages discussing nuances with me, shows the scrutiny given to my posts opposed to those on the other side of the aisle.

That said, a couple of posters actually spoke up with the deuce king thing. So props to them.

 

[dwalk31]

So the questions of some NTers are: Why and What.

Why do support x,y,z besides for money?
What is your intention?

If you ask me about any specific political position, I will tell you my stance on it and why. Whether it is related to financial reasons or something else.

Is there a particular stance you have a question about?

 

[Deleted member 42060]

If you ask me about any specific political position, I will tell you my stance on it and why. Whether it is related to financial reasons or something else.

Is there a particular stance you have a question about?

Well, it would be good to not omit the rest of my quote because I would like to know why do you think Trump isnt deceiving the public with misinformation and factually incorrect statements?

Please do not tell me its due to inexperience. Please do not tell me who knows, I dont know.

We actually would like to hear or read a nice constructive logical take where you are on the other side, a liberals perspective, or any logical side. Just try.

 

[dwalk31]

Well, it would be good to not omit the rest of my quote because I would like to know why do you think Trump isnt deceiving the public with misinformation and factually incorrect statements?

Please do not tell me its due to inexperience. Please do not tell me who knows, I dont know.

We actually would like to hear or read a nice constructive logical take where you are on the other side, a liberals perspective, or any logical side. Just try.

I outlined in it the last few pages that’s why I omitted it. But I will restate it in case you missed it.

I think lies (and deception generally) require an intent to deceive. As opposed to factually inaccurate statements which can be based on beliefs at a particular time.

I don’t think it’s due to inexperience. He seems like the type of person that ad libs and shoots from the hip.

Most politicians do not behave that way. But he ran on not being a typical politician.

 

[IATT]

I outlined in it the last few pages that’s why I omitted it. But I will restate it in case you missed it.

I think lies (and deception generally) require an intent to deceive. As opposed to factually inaccurate statements which can be based on beliefs at a particular time.

I don’t think it’s due to inexperience. He seems like the type of person that ad libs and shoots from the hip.

Most politicians do not behave that way. But he ran on not being a typical politician.

Trump vowed to not cut Social Security and Medicare — hours before proposing just that

The president is either brazenly lying about his 2021 budget or doesn’t know what’s in it.

www.vox.com

 

[Methodical Management]

But It is disrespectful because he continued calling me that after being informed, by me, that I wasn't. And me clarifying that it was offensive

And not speaking up on that disrespect, while spending pages discussing nuances with me, shows the scrutiny given to my posts opposed to those on the other side of the aisle.

Again, you’re claiming that it’s disrespectful because everyone knows you’re Black. How do you know what they know?

Is it because they were present for a meeting in which this information was presented?

Or is it because they have previously made statements incorporating this information, which are now at odds with more recent statements about you?

 

[dwalk31]

Again, you’re claiming that it’s disrespectful because everyone knows you’re Black. How do you know what they know?

Is it because they were present for a meeting in which this information was presented?

Or is it because they have previously made statements incorporating this information, which are now at odds with more recent statements about you?

I am not saying it is disrespectful because other people know my race. I know people on Niketalk, in real life, but they aren’t the regular posters in this thread. So I imagine the people posting regularly in here do not know my race.

I am saying it is disrespectful because I told the other poster that I found it offensive and they continued to call me white. It’s like any other name-calling in that respect. The disrespect doesn’t have anything to do with their knowledge of my race.

 

[IATT]

I am not saying it is disrespectful because other people know my race

 

[Methodical Management]

I am not saying it is disrespectful because other people know my race. I know people on Niketalk, in real life, but they aren’t the regular posters in this thread. So I imagine the people posting regularly in here do not know my race.

I am saying it is disrespectful because I told the other poster that I found it offensive and they continued to call me white. It’s like any other name-calling in that respect. The disrespect doesn’t have anything to do with their knowledge.

Let me rephrase the question then:
How do you know that everyone is aware that you find it offensive?


Is it because they were present for a meeting in which this information was presented?

Or is it because they have previously made statements incorporating this information, which are now at odds with more recent statements about you?

 

[dwalk31]

Let me rephrase the question then:
How do you know that everyone is aware that you find it offensive?


Is it because they were present for a meeting in which this information was presented?

Or is it because they have previously made statements incorporating this information, which are now at odds with more recent statements about you?

Many posters are aware I find it offensive because I told deuce king that I found it offensive. But he proceeded to continue. Other posters liked the messages, responded, etc.

There was no meeting that I am aware of.

And not really a matter of previously made statements that are now at odds with more recent statements.

In any event, I brush it off mostly. Because when I respond it tends to derail the thread.

 

[IATT]

I am not saying it is disrespectful because other people know my race. I know people on Niketalk, in real life, but they aren’t the regular posters in this thread. So I imagine the people posting regularly in here do not know my race.

I am saying it is disrespectful because I told the other poster that I found it offensive and they continued to call me white. It’s like any other name-calling in that respect. The disrespect doesn’t have anything to do with their knowledge of my race.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/05/19/nearly-700-vacancies-at-cdc-because-of-trump-administration-hiring-freeze/

 

[IATT]

Many posters are aware I find it offensive because I told deuce king that I found it offensive. But he proceeded to continue. Other posters liked the messages, responded, etc.

There was no meeting that I am aware of.

And not really a matter of previously made statements that are now at odds with more recent statements.

In any event, I brush it off mostly. Because when I respond it tends to derail the thread.

Trump's staff cuts have undermined Covid-19 containment efforts, watchdog finds

White House cut staff tasked with identifying global health problems in China, and tried to slash CDC funding

www.theguardian.com

 

[Belgium]

I said that for something to qualify as a lie it must have been made with the intent to deceive. Meaning someone had knowledge of the facts and chose to deliberately state a falsehood.

I conceded that Trump makes factually inaccurate statements. Tons of politicians do. But I think that calling such statements lies is an overstatement. And an unnecessary overstatement at that because there is an understandable gripe with the president making factually inaccurate statements even if they are not lies.

Ok. I will raise you a clear example. Explain.

Trump on March 6: "Anybody that wants a test can get a test."
Trump on March 10: "And when people need a test, they can get a test. When the professionals need a test, when they need tests for people, they can get the test. It's gone really well."


On March 5, the day before Trump's above remarks,Mike Pence publicly conceded that there was a supply shortage of test kits.
In the days leading up to Trump's statements, there were also many complaints and warnings about test kit supply shortages from hospitals, medical associations, ...
The president receives a daily presidential briefing, known as the PDB. It is highly likely that the supply shortage would have come up repeatedly due to posing a threat to national security.
In addition to the PDB, the president was also involved in daily private briefings with the coronavirus taskforce and communications with health experts like Dr. Fauci. There is simply no chance that the president wouldn't have been informed repeatedly that there was a supply shortage of test kits.

After Trump's March 6 remarks, the media of course jumped on the glaring falsehood. On March 10 however, Trump more or less doubled down on his initial statement.

 

[gry60]

Many posters are aware I find it offensive because I told deuce king deuce king that I found it offensive.

How do you know that they read what you told Deuce King?

 

[gry60]

 

[dwalk31]

The president receives a daily presidential briefing, known as the PDB. It is highly likely that the supply shortage would have come up repeatedly due to posing a threat to national security.

In addition to the PDB, the president was also involved in daily private briefings with the coronavirus taskforce and communications with health experts like Dr. Fauci. There is simply no chance that the president wouldn't have been informed repeatedly that there was a supply shortage of test kits.

This is what I mean by your ultimate conclusion of him telling a lie relies on assumptions you are making.

As it relates to the statements you mentioned they seem aspirational and like responses shot from the hip.

I think you can find a lot of similarities between that and "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor." I wouldn't consider that statement by the prior administration a lie. But certainly factually inaccurate. Would you consider that a lie as it relates to the affordable care act? Or more an aspirational goal based on information known to the speaker at the time?

 

[dwalk31]

How do you know that they read what you told Deuce King?

Likes and responses.

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

Likes and responses.

Trump attacks CDC over coronavirus preparedness, though he eliminated an office dedicated to pandemic prevention - The Boston Globe

President Trump on Friday morning attacked the Centers for Disease Control, a federal agency he oversees, over the slow federal response to the coronavirus outbreak, attempting to lay blame for the lack of testing on his predecessors despite having disbanded a White House office focused on...

www.bostonglobe.com

 

[stuntman mike]

so a lie is now an “aspirational goal”?!
hooooo boyyyyyy