RustyShackleford
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***Official Political Discussion Thread***
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rico x hood,
- Start date
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Arkansas' mayors denied lockdown power | Arkansas Democrat Gazette
Gov. Asa Hutchinson said Tuesday that the state will help cities enforce restrictions on social interaction designed to slow the spread of the coronavirus, but he won't allow them to impose stay-at-home orders.
www.arkansasonline.com
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Ole "cut of the nose to spite the face" type dudes
Rational, sound, coherent, cogent, etc. logic to get the opposite of what one would want
#nobidennotrump trending on twitter
Got people using mental gymnastics saying it's not your fault if you don't vote for Biden and Trump is elected. Talking about it'd go against their virtues and morals if they voted for Biden since he doesn't align.
...Yea what about the morality behind letting Trump get reelected and having the majority of people worse off than under Biden?
Also why are they so mad at the DNC when Bernie supporters didn't show up in numbers to help him win?
Rational, sound, coherent, cogent, etc. logic to get the opposite of what one would want
#nobidennotrump trending on twitter
Got people using mental gymnastics saying it's not your fault if you don't vote for Biden and Trump is elected. Talking about it'd go against their virtues and morals if they voted for Biden since he doesn't align.
...Yea what about the morality behind letting Trump get reelected and having the majority of people worse off than under Biden?
Also why are they so mad at the DNC when Bernie supporters didn't show up in numbers to help him win?
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the presidency is a lifetime achievement award.
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Federal Support Ends For Coronavirus Testing Sites As Pandemic Peak Nears
As the coronavirus pandemic peak approaches, local officials say the federal government is ending support for COVID-19 community-based testing sites.
www.npr.org
Hospitals say feds are seizing masks and other coronavirus supplies without a word
As hospitals battle the coronavirus, they're baffled as the Trump administration seizes hard-to-stock medical supplies.
www.latimes.com
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Seems simple and obvious
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Aside from Donald Trump, no politician has provoked more rage than Bernie Sanders, in this thread.
Now, for some, they are fundamentally conservative and they don't like Bernie's socialism.
That alone does not explain the rage because most posters in here actually do want a much fairer world where everyone can live a decent, dignified, worthwhile existence.
When I was a conservative back in the 2000's I conflated progressives with socialists and communists and Marxists. Much of that was rhetorical bombast but now that I am a communist and a Marxist, progressives, pre-Obama had a lot in common with Marxists. They knew that material circumstances dictated material outcomes and they had the moral clarity to know that the American military, intelligence and law enforcement apparatus are death machines that perpetuate white supremacy and predatory capitalism at home and abroad.
Before Obama's ascendancy, liberals knew and were willing to articulate plain and obvious truths. Now, we sit here in 2020 and all of that has changed.
Pre Obama, Big companies and billionaires owning newspapers and media outlets was bad for democracy. Now, liberals consider it a "conspiracy theory" to suggest that Jeff Bezos' ownership of the Washington Post might skew their coverage of those who criticize Amazon.
Pre Obama, it was known that Labor unions make life better for workers. Now, we are told that even thinking in terms of labor being in conflict with capital is a sign of latent white supremacy. We are now told that because particular labor unions have been racist that even speaking about a working class with material interests which are in conflict with capital, you are regressive. We are told that there is no material conflict between capital and labor, we are all strivers and if our wages are low and our employment precarious, we need to simply "upskill." Elon Musk and your uber driver have the same economic interests. After all, to criticize capitalism is to deny white supremacy and patriarchy.
Pre Obama, it was understood that concentrations of wealth, more generally, are bad. Giant campaign contributions were particularly bad. Now, we are told that most billionaires are good. We are told that Wall Street bankers are just as patriotic as anyone else. Furthermore, we are told that Wall Street bankers are actually better people than blue collar workers because they built a statue of a little girl standing opposite the statue of the bull. Meanwhile, we are told, that everyone who makes less than 50k a year is bad because they all voted for Trump.
In the mid 2000's, liberals knew that the War in Iraq was a moral abomination. Back then, they knew that every life has value and that includes poor people and Muslims in foreign lands. Moreover, it was understood that when the US overthrows an existing government, it was always to further the economic interests of capital and the lofty rhetoric from the White House and State department about spreading Democracy was a ruse, a fig leaf. Now, liberals love the CIA and Drone Strikes and coups (just don't call them coups though).
What happened between the 2000's and the late 2010's? What caused liberals to go from being Chomsky reading Chads to being people who unironically celebrate girl bosses leading the CIA?
Well Obama happened. I remember seeing liberals in 2008. I remember seeing the euphoria and the understanding that wrongs were about to be righted. Then we saw how every evil and awful institution not only survived but got stronger. I am not looking to criticize Obama but only to point out that on every issue, there was a huge gap between expectations in 2008 and results in 2016. Banks got bigger, the health insurance industry was just as powerful, inequality grew, college was more unaffordable, and mass incarceration as well as coups and drone strikes hummed along. Liberals saw how unreformable America was and instead of carrying disappointment, liberals redefined success and lowered their expectations dramatically. They learned to love or at least tolerate corruption, state sanctioned violence and concentrated capital.
The election of Donald Trump did not send liberals back to their Bush era way of thinking. Because Donald Trump is seen as a usurper and a political aberration, liberals doubled down on their love of power institutions who do evil. Jeff Bezos, Goldman Sachs, former Bush era officials and CIA chiefs and FBI directors became heroes of the #resistence.
Bernie Sanders makes liberals uncomfortable because his material understanding of the world and his moral clarity reminds liberals of things that they once said in public and still believe, deep down. By 2015, libs had learned how to turn their disappointment with the Obama era into what they tell themselves is political sophistication and nuance. Bernie, disrupts all of that. Bernie reminds liberals of their 2008 expectations and the enormous gap between those expectations then the results that we see now.
Bernie pisses off liberals because he reminds them of truths that they used to professes and now suppress. Liberals know deep down that, no, none of this is ok, they know, deep down, that America is not "already great." They want to forget how unjust America really is but Bernie won't let them forget.
Now, for some, they are fundamentally conservative and they don't like Bernie's socialism.
That alone does not explain the rage because most posters in here actually do want a much fairer world where everyone can live a decent, dignified, worthwhile existence.
When I was a conservative back in the 2000's I conflated progressives with socialists and communists and Marxists. Much of that was rhetorical bombast but now that I am a communist and a Marxist, progressives, pre-Obama had a lot in common with Marxists. They knew that material circumstances dictated material outcomes and they had the moral clarity to know that the American military, intelligence and law enforcement apparatus are death machines that perpetuate white supremacy and predatory capitalism at home and abroad.
Before Obama's ascendancy, liberals knew and were willing to articulate plain and obvious truths. Now, we sit here in 2020 and all of that has changed.
Pre Obama, Big companies and billionaires owning newspapers and media outlets was bad for democracy. Now, liberals consider it a "conspiracy theory" to suggest that Jeff Bezos' ownership of the Washington Post might skew their coverage of those who criticize Amazon.
Pre Obama, it was known that Labor unions make life better for workers. Now, we are told that even thinking in terms of labor being in conflict with capital is a sign of latent white supremacy. We are now told that because particular labor unions have been racist that even speaking about a working class with material interests which are in conflict with capital, you are regressive. We are told that there is no material conflict between capital and labor, we are all strivers and if our wages are low and our employment precarious, we need to simply "upskill." Elon Musk and your uber driver have the same economic interests. After all, to criticize capitalism is to deny white supremacy and patriarchy.
Pre Obama, it was understood that concentrations of wealth, more generally, are bad. Giant campaign contributions were particularly bad. Now, we are told that most billionaires are good. We are told that Wall Street bankers are just as patriotic as anyone else. Furthermore, we are told that Wall Street bankers are actually better people than blue collar workers because they built a statue of a little girl standing opposite the statue of the bull. Meanwhile, we are told, that everyone who makes less than 50k a year is bad because they all voted for Trump.
In the mid 2000's, liberals knew that the War in Iraq was a moral abomination. Back then, they knew that every life has value and that includes poor people and Muslims in foreign lands. Moreover, it was understood that when the US overthrows an existing government, it was always to further the economic interests of capital and the lofty rhetoric from the White House and State department about spreading Democracy was a ruse, a fig leaf. Now, liberals love the CIA and Drone Strikes and coups (just don't call them coups though).
What happened between the 2000's and the late 2010's? What caused liberals to go from being Chomsky reading Chads to being people who unironically celebrate girl bosses leading the CIA?
Well Obama happened. I remember seeing liberals in 2008. I remember seeing the euphoria and the understanding that wrongs were about to be righted. Then we saw how every evil and awful institution not only survived but got stronger. I am not looking to criticize Obama but only to point out that on every issue, there was a huge gap between expectations in 2008 and results in 2016. Banks got bigger, the health insurance industry was just as powerful, inequality grew, college was more unaffordable, and mass incarceration as well as coups and drone strikes hummed along. Liberals saw how unreformable America was and instead of carrying disappointment, liberals redefined success and lowered their expectations dramatically. They learned to love or at least tolerate corruption, state sanctioned violence and concentrated capital.
The election of Donald Trump did not send liberals back to their Bush era way of thinking. Because Donald Trump is seen as a usurper and a political aberration, liberals doubled down on their love of power institutions who do evil. Jeff Bezos, Goldman Sachs, former Bush era officials and CIA chiefs and FBI directors became heroes of the #resistence.
Bernie Sanders makes liberals uncomfortable because his material understanding of the world and his moral clarity reminds liberals of things that they once said in public and still believe, deep down. By 2015, libs had learned how to turn their disappointment with the Obama era into what they tell themselves is political sophistication and nuance. Bernie, disrupts all of that. Bernie reminds liberals of their 2008 expectations and the enormous gap between those expectations then the results that we see now.
Bernie pisses off liberals because he reminds them of truths that they used to professes and now suppress. Liberals know deep down that, no, none of this is ok, they know, deep down, that America is not "already great." They want to forget how unjust America really is but Bernie won't let them forget.
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Shout out to every who did what they could for the Sanders Campaign. Everyone who knocked on doors, made calls, donated, organized events and called out each and every bad faith take, all of you are kings, queens and non binary monarchs.
A better world is possible, no matter what some may say to the contrary.
Not me, us
A better world is possible, no matter what some may say to the contrary.
Not me, us
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Tbh, it's not that complicated...for me anyways.
I like Bernie and I like his ideals. I'd be happy if he were president. I'd feel good knowing he was fighting for us. Him and Warren were solid.
But now it all comes down to:
Given my choices, would I rather see Biden or Trump as president? For me it's Biden.
It's as simple as that.
I just don't see a valid reason not to if someone supported Bernie other than those who are salty or just want to let people suffer for 4 more years and reset if that's even realistic and even moral.
I like Bernie and I like his ideals. I'd be happy if he were president. I'd feel good knowing he was fighting for us. Him and Warren were solid.
But now it all comes down to:
Given my choices, would I rather see Biden or Trump as president? For me it's Biden.
It's as simple as that.
I just don't see a valid reason not to if someone supported Bernie other than those who are salty or just want to let people suffer for 4 more years and reset if that's even realistic and even moral.
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We also gotta make sure we get house senate and our local government politicians fighting for us we need them all working for us
Can’t have just a president who we like
But the house and senate working against him
Or our local higher ups undermining the good
Needs to be talk about that as well
Can’t have just a president who we like
But the house and senate working against him
Or our local higher ups undermining the good
Needs to be talk about that as well
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New statement by Trump’s personal attorney Bill Barr. In his spare time, he likes to be the Attorney General.
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Why are Biden supporters so damn nervous about how Bernie supporters will vote in the general? I thought you didn't need us and you have all your new Never Trump Republican friends. The argument for Biden is electability, go and do it.
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Yep, I’m an economics professor and, in general, I love it. I love seeing my students get it and come out with analytical skills that did not have just a few weeks prior. Most of them are young, 18-20, and seeing them bring a beginner’s enthusiasm for learning, in general, and economics, in particular, keeps me motivated to stay intellectually curious. The downside though, is they make me feel very old, by contrast. I’m in my mid 30’s but I feel like I’m 100 because I having working, adult memories of the early 2000’s whenmany of my students weren’t born yet.
You didn’t ask other candidates or their supporters to engage in deep introspection.
If anything, liberal candidates, who lose, should engage in introspection because our system is set up for them to win elections. By contrast, the system is designed to prevent a socialist from winning. Bernie did far better than the political and material realities of America suggested he could do.
On a gut level it would be nice but I know that libs won’t do any self criticism, they lose elections all the time and never engage in introspection. 2020 would be any different.
The real work for those who want real change will take place outside of electoral politics, strikes and other direction action.
While Joe Biden has bragged that if he’s president, “nothing will fundamentally change,” a Biden administration would be more tolerant of and sympathe
Oh yeah, every swing state he loses, he’ll claim mass voter fraud in
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1) it’s not just Biden supporters
2) because we saw what happened just a few years ago
3) we are reminded on a daily basis the ramifications of what happened a few years ago
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I’ve been told that Bernie supporters, younger people especially, are unreliable voters and therefore, Biden should ignore that group and focus on older and more affluent voters and appeal to them with centrist policy proposals.
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real leadership
Never forget
Never forget
Jacinda Ardern: New Zealand government changes gun laws
New Zealand's prime minister Jacinda Ardern has announced an immediate ban on the sale of certain types of powerful guns, as a result of shootings at two mosques in the city of Christchurch.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Clinton couldn't beat Obama.
And Sanders couldn't beat Hillary.
What's up with running these second place candidates and tf DNC thinking, pitting a 125 year old against a 138 year old, anyways.
Both Sanders and Clinton should have gotten their failed ambitions out of the way and groomed someone viable and by viable, I mean not a senior citizen.
And Sanders couldn't beat Hillary.
What's up with running these second place candidates and tf DNC thinking, pitting a 125 year old against a 138 year old, anyways.
Both Sanders and Clinton should have gotten their failed ambitions out of the way and groomed someone viable and by viable, I mean not a senior citizen.
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You forgot what happened in 2016?
That's why people are worried about the way some Bernie supporters will vote.
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In 2016, 83% of Bernie’s primary voters voted for Clinton in the general. The number will be similar in 2020. Now you probably think that number should be 100% but that’s not realistic. For context, only 75% of 2008 Clinton primary voters voted for Barack Obama in the general election.
If Biden loses because he gets “only” 80% of Sanders primary supporters to vote for him, then he’s a pretty weak candidate.
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Would you say he's weaker than the guy that couldn't beat him in the primaries?
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You sound mad.
Biden has nothing to gain by focusing on the center. He has them. Most of them view him as nothing more than a vessel for which to win in November anyway. Any Bernie supporters who are actual progressives and really want to see the change he championed should be working to push Biden as far left as possible. Because that is actually within the realm of possibility. And in the same vain, Biden should be courting these supporters and reaching out to "far left" groups.
Whether he's ever president or not, Bernie has done a lot to move the party left. Giving up his fight because he didn't win and saying "oh the democratic establishment has to learn the hard way" is petulant BS.
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Obama was probably the best overall candidate I’ve ever seen but it was still impossible get a lot of the liberal agenda done. A lot reasons besides the candidate for that.
Some Liberals became pragmatic and realized it’s a long road and nominating a 78 year Democratic Socialist probably isn’t the answer.
Let’s look at recent political history that most can relate 1980 to now. Republicans have held the Presidency for 24 of 40 years. When Democrats won non incumbent races it was because some sort of “asterisk” 1992 Perot and the Recession , 2008 the Great Recession.
A lot Democrats are risk averse they really aren’t full on down the line Liberal but they realize the Republican Party is against their interests.
A huge pct of the Democratic Party sits between the Moderate and Liberal parts of the graph. Trump and his loyalists are sitting in between conservative and reactionary. For better or worse but that’s where the leadership is at. You can’t tell me the country is going to move from that to the liberal to radical part of graph led by a 78 year man. I think a lot other Democrats saw it the same way.
Few really dive through all the policies. Campaigns seem to be built on alliances, likability and charisma which causes energy. I’ll admit Biden isn’t charismatic like Obama or Clinton I do feel like he’ll built alliances and he is far more likable than Trump.
The Far Left need to realize politics is a long game can’t just take your ball and go home because you didn’t get enough of a liberal candidate, it’s more than just about Biden, it’s about the Supreme Court and the Federal courts down and at least having candidate in office who feels enough pressure to pander to you. Can’t skip steps in the process.
Some Liberals became pragmatic and realized it’s a long road and nominating a 78 year Democratic Socialist probably isn’t the answer.
Let’s look at recent political history that most can relate 1980 to now. Republicans have held the Presidency for 24 of 40 years. When Democrats won non incumbent races it was because some sort of “asterisk” 1992 Perot and the Recession , 2008 the Great Recession.
A lot Democrats are risk averse they really aren’t full on down the line Liberal but they realize the Republican Party is against their interests.
A huge pct of the Democratic Party sits between the Moderate and Liberal parts of the graph. Trump and his loyalists are sitting in between conservative and reactionary. For better or worse but that’s where the leadership is at. You can’t tell me the country is going to move from that to the liberal to radical part of graph led by a 78 year man. I think a lot other Democrats saw it the same way.
Few really dive through all the policies. Campaigns seem to be built on alliances, likability and charisma which causes energy. I’ll admit Biden isn’t charismatic like Obama or Clinton I do feel like he’ll built alliances and he is far more likable than Trump.
The Far Left need to realize politics is a long game can’t just take your ball and go home because you didn’t get enough of a liberal candidate, it’s more than just about Biden, it’s about the Supreme Court and the Federal courts down and at least having candidate in office who feels enough pressure to pander to you. Can’t skip steps in the process.
