elpablo21
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***Official Political Discussion Thread***
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rico x hood,
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dacomeup
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Who hand waves the crime bill? We are all undeniably angry, disgusted and affected on the daily basis by it’s horrible effects, while also pointing to the fact that it had bipartisan support AND the party that you support wanted these measure to go EVEN FURTHER, which of course would’ve been worse for Black people.
Now let’s address today. You’re currently in support of a party that is fighting by tooth and nail to uphold white supremacy every day. They are supporting privatized prisons, taking health care from millions of Black folks, suppressing the Black vote, and countless other things, while emboldening racists to commit acts of violence against Black folks with dangerous rhetoric. So let’s talk about hand waving. You hand wave all of this because of the weak measures that they have passed that fall way short of any proposal that Democrats make with regards to any of these issues? And that makes sense to you?
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RustyShackleford
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-The end game is for us to normalize competition as best we can, prevent athletes from engaging in illegal activity and potentially dangerous activity. And yes the spectators that drive the revenue for these sports prefer clean athletes. So it makes financial sense to spend on anti-doping measures because you don't want your fan base getting disillusioned with the sport. The casual sport watcher as tons of other alternatives to occupy their time.Im familiar with how testing works. It's a waste of money, time energy and resources. What's the endgame a clean sport that armchair quarterbacks and uncle Ricos can feel good about? There would be little to no change if testing went away, a few more might jump onboard and use PEDs but overall those who want to use them already are.
Amateur athletes doping is a moot point, steroids are expensive as hell, Growth Hormone is even more expensive so Im not worried about a 16-year old spending $1500+ dollars a month on real growth hormone. Do you honestly believe a teenager is going to take the money they make from their part-time job and go buy all the PED's they can? They aren't going to get very far with a few hundred dollars.
So, Lance Armstrong did what everyone else did in order to be as competitive as everyone else. Nobody made him or any other cyclist do anything against their will right, they made that choice on their own. The people who are pros are freak of nature athletes already. So should one athlete be punished for having a higher lactate threshold than another athlete? Should athletes with a higher VO2max be penalized so it's fair for everyone else? Where do you draw the line at what is considered a competitive advantage? My lactic acid test might be 10 millimoles per liter and yours is 16, should we not compete against each other because my body filters lactate more efficiently than yours? It would be flat out STUPID for a person to attempt the Tour de France not on drugs, the long-term damage done to their body would be far more severe.
I love this misconception that PEDs make the athlete SOOOOO much better. You could be the best weekend warrior cyclist in the world and taking drugs isn't going to make you anything close to a pro cyclist. In general steroids do 1 of 2 things, they help you get stronger/recover faster or they are used for inflammation that's it. PEDs don't make you go from Joe Schmo to world class athlete. EPO is naturally occurs in the kidneys, so if one person's body produces more than the next athlete is that a competitive advantage?
PEDs can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing or if you take too much, just like anything. You can overdose and die on multivitamins. The stuff you get form some random dealer is vastly different than what you'd get at pharmacy. What's the difference between the NFL pumping players full of painkillers and opioids versus letting a guy take growth hormone to recover faster? The opioids are highly addictive and do far more damage to your body than a couple IUs of growth hormone or testosterone cypionate.
Pro athletes are hyper competitive by nature so when you add millions of dollars, their ego and a chance at a legacy that lasts forever odds are they are going to do whatever it takes. The ones who want to use are going to find a way no matter the parameters put in place. It's no coincidence that LeBron James lost a ton of muscle the same summer that the NBA changed its growth hormone testing policy. You don't lose 50 pounds in a 60 days unless something is wrong or you're coming off something.
Is HGH a Knick and NBA Problem?
In the summer of weight loss, is it coincidental, or could HGH be the source of change? Could the NBA have an emerging problem on its hands?dailyknicks.com
-In American pharmacies the some drugs are expensive. If you can important them in from India or get them over the border in Mexico they are much cheaper. Hell even something like clomid, EPO, and testosterone are relatively cheap. So yeah, drug traffickers will find a way if there is a market for it. Teenagers and college athletes will be able to afford the drugs with a weekend job, or saving some allowance, etc. Hell some loony parents will buy the damn drug for their kids.
-This is a weird argument as hell. Yes, if you naturally have a competitive advantage, you get to keep that advantage, those are the breaks of life. People are born with different natural gifts, so other people in their sport should train to close the gap as much as they can. You draw the line at if you are naturally gift with something, others have to train, but they don't get to use pharmaceuticals that have powerful therapeutics affects, simple. People are born with different heights, body frames, physiology, etc. People can try to close the gap with training, supplements, and other ****. But If someone can't close the gap without pharmaceuticals, then tough. That's the line.
You want to have claim that cyclist have complete agency over their decisions, but what I am saying is that in the system you will proposing they will be pushed toward doping. I said nothing about what doping does to the average joe. I said that when you are a high level athlete, and you want to compete against high level athletes, if there is a system in place that allows all your competition to dope, then it in practice makes is harder for you to chose not doping. There will be major consequences to your career. I am not implying that doping turns bums into high level athletes. I am saying that in pro sports where everyone is already high level, marginal gains can have major benefits for an athlete. So doping makes a major impact. And with no anti-doping measure, you will drive people toward doping.
Dudes in the Armstrong Era were doing high dose EPO, test, having blood transfusions, amphetamines, cortisone, and a bunch of other ****. After they cleaned it up the first time dudes micro-dosed and medical exemptions to use cortisone. With the blood passport, some dudes might claim they have asthma to get a pump, and use Ketones (which are legal). So it is not even remotely the same.
You don't need drugs to do the Tour de France. Dudes completed the race before these modern drugs were even invented, before the late 70s dudes mainly were just popping amphetamines. Tons of dudes do it and finish hours down from the leaders, but they finish. To win the Tour de France, if you are genetically gifted and doing the same training as everyone else, your team matters probably most of all. The sport is way cleaner than before.
-First that Lebron James didn't lose no damn 50 pounds in 60 days. It was more rumored to be around 10-20 in 67 days. Which is very believable especially since dude said he completely changed his diet...
https://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-james-sugar-carbs-diet-2014-9
Lebron in 2014 NBA Finals....
2015 Finals
So you really want me to believe there is a 50 pound different between the two. So I am suppose to don't believe my eyes and Brons own words and instead believe some article from a Knicks fan site. This is your evidence?
And you bringing up HGH undercuts your argument if it is true. First it implies it was relative cheaper for the NBA to clean up the sport. All they had to do is include a new test and behavior changed instantly. Also, let us assume you are right: so the NBA changed their testing policy and players loss muscle weight. Did Lebron James become a worst player the next season? Did he become that much less athletic? Did he fall that much off off? Clearly the answer is no. So Bron off drugs and on drugs is pretty much the same, why would a system where they are on the drugs preferable?
Your point about athletes being hyper competitive is true, and that is one of the scary aspects of if you don't have anti-doping measures. Cost is not gonna stop a amatuer athlete that really wants to dope. Dudes in the 90s were not saying "let me take EPO to get my levels to what I think is the upper quartile in the population". Instead dudes injected that **** and turned their blood into a maple syrup consistency. Shot themselves full of testosterone, and got blood transfusions. They competitive nature made sure they didn't stop at trying to equalize advantages their competitors had naturally. They used to to get an advantage, and it kicked off a arms race with doping.
Anti-doping infrastructure is a relative drop in the bucket compared to the benefits, including the financial benefits. I am completely fine with the jobs it creates too.
This concern about money seems like it is ignoring that these pro leagues do **** that is good for their bottom line. Clearly testing is good for the bottom line because it makes the sport more attractive to average viewers. You might complain that they should not care about these fans but I would assume athletes would rather be tested and make more than be not tested and run the risk of their sports falling out of favor with the public.
You just seem to be doing a whole bunch of hand waving famb.
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dbl
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testosterone is cheap.
if all PEDs were legal in competition, you would see some mutant **** going down. like real life comic book performance. **** would be thrilling as hell. people would kill each other in combat sports. gladiator ****.
if all PEDs were legal in competition, you would see some mutant **** going down. like real life comic book performance. **** would be thrilling as hell. people would kill each other in combat sports. gladiator ****.
nerw32
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Fans getting disillusioned with the sport is the concern? They are paying a cable provider extra money to watch athletes compete for something that in the grand scheme of life means nothing. Fans are okay with leagues starting/restarting during a pandemic for their entertainment knowing that there is considerable risk involved for the athletes coaches and players families, I don't think fans care about the players health nearly as much as you think. The leagues damn sure don't care as much as you think because they want to meet their contractual obligations to the networks.-The end game is for us to normalize competition as best we can, prevent athletes from engaging in illegal activity and potentially dangerous activity. And yes the spectators that drive the revenue for these sports prefer clean athletes. So it makes financial sense to spend on anti-doping measures because you don't want your fan base getting disillusioned with the sport. The casual sport watches for tons of other alternatives to occupy their time.
-In American pharmacies the some drugs are expensive. If you can important them in from India or get them over the border in Mexico they are much cheaper. Hell even something like clomid, EPO, and testosterone are relatively cheap. So yeah, drug traffickers will find a way if there is a market for it. Teenagers and college athletes will be able to afford the drugs with a weekend job, or saving some allowance, etc. Hell some loony parents will buy the damn drug for their kids.
-This is a weird argument as hell. Yes, if you naturally have a competitive advantage, you get to keep that advantage, those are the breaks of life. People are born with different natural gifts, so other people in their sport should train to close the gap as much as they can. You draw the line at if you are naturally gift with something, others have to train, but they don't get to use pharmaceuticals that have powerful therapeutics affects, simple. People are born with different heights, body frames, physiology, etc. People can try to close the gap with training, supplements, and other ****. But If someone can't close the gap without pharmaceuticals, then tough. That's the line.
You want to have claim that cyclist have complete agency over their decisions, but what I am saying is that in the system you will proposing they will be pushed toward doping. I said nothing about what doping does to the average joe. I said that when you are a high level athlete, and you want to compete against high level athletes, if there is a system in place that allows all your competition to dope, then it in practice makes is harder for you to chose not doping. There will be major consequences to your career. I am not implying that doping turns bums into high level athletes. I am saying that in pro sports where everyone is already high level, marginal gains can have major benefits for an athlete. So doping makes a major impact. And wchi no anti-doping measure, you will drive people toward doping.
Dudes in the Armstrong Era were doing high dose EPO, test, having blood transfusions, amphetamines, cortisone, and a bunch of other ****. After they cleaned it up the first time dudes micro-dosed and medical exemptions to use cortisone. With the blood passport, some dudes might claim they have asthma to get a pump, and use Ketones (which are legal). So it is not even remotely the same.
You don't need drugs to do the Tour de France. Dudes completed the race before these modern drugs were even invented, before the late 70s dudes mainly were just popping amphetamines. Tons of dudes do it and finish hours down from the leaders, but they finish. To win the Tour de France, if you are genetically gifted and doing the same training as everyone else, your team matters probably most of all. The sport is way cleaner than before.
-First that Lebron James didn't lose no damn 50 pounds in 60 days. It was more rumored to be around 10-20 in 67 days. Which is very believable especially since dude said he completely changed his diet...
https://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-james-sugar-carbs-diet-2014-9
Lebron in 2014 NBA Finals....
2015 Finals
So you really want me to believe there is a 50 pound different between the two. So I am suppose to don't believe my eyes and Brons own words and instead believe some article from a Knicks fan site. This is your evidence?
And you bringing up HGH undercuts your argument if it is true. First it implies it was relative cheaper for the NBA to clean up the sport. All they had to do is include a new test and behavior changed instantly. Also, let us assume you are right: so the NBA changed their testing policy and players loss muscle weight. Did Lebron James become a worst player the next season? Did he become that much less athletic? Did he fall that much off off? Clearly the answer is no. So Bron off drugs and on drugs is pretty much the same, why would a system where they are on the drugs preferable?
Your point about athletes being hyper competitive is true, and that is one of the scary aspects of if you don't have anti-doping measures. Cost is not gonna stop a amatuer athlete that really wants to dope. Dudes in the 90s were not saying "let me take EPO to get my levels to what I think is the upper quartile in the population". Instead dudes injected that **** and turned their blood into a maple syrup consistency. Shot themselves full of testosterone, and got blood transfusions. They competitive nature made sure they didn't stop at trying to equalize advantages their competitors had naturally. They used to to get an advantage, and it kicked off a arms race with doping.
Anti-doping infrastructure is a relative drop in the bucket compared to the benefits, including the financial benefits. I am completely fine with the jobs it creates too.
This concern about money seems like it is ignoring that these pro leagues do **** that is good for their bottom line. Clearly testing is good for the bottom line because it makes the sport more attractive to average viewers. You might complain that they should not care about these fans but I would assume athletes would rather be tested and make more than be not tested and run the risk of their sports falling out of favor with the public.
Yeah there are tons of teens running to Mexico to get all the steroids their part-time job at Target will buy them. Im sure their parents are the ones driving them down there. Of course some teens are going to use PEDs but for the most part this is a non issue.
Cyclists do have complete agency over their decisions they are grown men. They can figure out for themselves if they want to use PEDs or not. No testing system that has been put in place has done an adequate job of actually stopping doping. There is always a way around it and most leagues testing protocols are a joke.
Amphetamines are okay to get through the tour but a little EPO and GH is where you draw the line got it. I was thinking next time I do a 50 mile ride ill grab some meth first.
The point of attaching the article was more so for the quote form Derrick Rose about GH being a problem within the league. Muscle is dense as hell. Maybe 50 lbs is an exaggeration but Lebron's body changed noticeably from 2014 finals to the 2015 season. Your out of context pictures with no scale for a true comparison i.e. two pictures of person with the same lighting, clothes on etc. You don't do comparison pictures with a physique in the format you chose.
It is evident you don't know much about how Growth Hormone works. It's not just about putting on some muscle the recovery window is significantly reduced when using GH so you don't think a guy who plays 82 NBA games in 30 different cities in a 6 month window could benefit from GH? You just proved my point for me. An athlete like Lebron is already leaps and bounds better than most at that level and him taking anything isn't going to make his basketball skills better, but it would benefit his overall recovery and health. Drugs don't make your jumper better, they don't make you a better passer and they don't make you a better defender. Strength and recovery are the main two reason why a guy like Lebron would benefit.
You're giving fans way too much credit, the same fans who got soooo pissed about kneeling during the anthem that NFL ratings dropped a whole 8% in in 2017. Majority of fans are casual by nature and if you ask most of them candidly they couldn't name 5 players on their favorite team or the head coach.
We obviously don't see eye to eye so I'm perfectly fine agreeing to disagree.
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RustyShackleford
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nerw32
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I appreciate that we can have a constructive discussion and not let things devolve. Thank you.
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I watched Tom Cotton’s speech about DC Statehood.
Now you snowflakes might deceive it as disgusting, racist or unhinged. Coal gang knows that the Senator was worried that with the Supreme Court Being across the Street from an urban State, represented by Oprah and Latrell Spreewell, that the Court’s neighbors would be playing loud music through the night.
Also, we have to consider that rockets are fired at the White House every day from Demoncrat controlled Maryland and Virginia. NOVA might as well be the Gaza Strip.
Lastly, could you imagine the Federal government having office buildings and military bases in a State? They have tried that and as we all know the Pentagon was seized and subsequently levitated over to New York. Edwards AFB in California was turned into Kale air station where commiefornia flays missions all over the world dropping leaflets telling people about how to make kale salad and turn school children gay.
We need to expand DC, build a ring of military bases around it and divide the country into 12 economic districts which will serve the elites in the capital. It’s the only way to keep the Suprene Court Safe from having to hear Travis Scott.
Now you snowflakes might deceive it as disgusting, racist or unhinged. Coal gang knows that the Senator was worried that with the Supreme Court Being across the Street from an urban State, represented by Oprah and Latrell Spreewell, that the Court’s neighbors would be playing loud music through the night.
Also, we have to consider that rockets are fired at the White House every day from Demoncrat controlled Maryland and Virginia. NOVA might as well be the Gaza Strip.
Lastly, could you imagine the Federal government having office buildings and military bases in a State? They have tried that and as we all know the Pentagon was seized and subsequently levitated over to New York. Edwards AFB in California was turned into Kale air station where commiefornia flays missions all over the world dropping leaflets telling people about how to make kale salad and turn school children gay.
We need to expand DC, build a ring of military bases around it and divide the country into 12 economic districts which will serve the elites in the capital. It’s the only way to keep the Suprene Court Safe from having to hear Travis Scott.
storm2006
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RustyShackleford
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So the E.U is gonna bar most travelers from the U.S and Russia because of the our perfect and beautiful handling of the Coronavirus outbreak.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/...1984&user_id=a9b98ba676168de3983a8d1a953c602b
At least our mans is with us in detention.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/...1984&user_id=a9b98ba676168de3983a8d1a953c602b
At least our mans is with us in detention.
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I hate when I click these tweets and accidentally read the replies and start scrolling
Well Trump spends all day on twitter and doesn't work, so him getting even a $1 seems like an over-payment
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AOC slept her way to the top. No question. Let me ask you, what does you think she was doing last night between 11pm and 6am? That’s right sleeping. Proves my point.
storm2006
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elpablo21
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Edit: wrong tweet
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Great, let's keep solving problems that don't exist and keep ignoring the ones that do.
While this might sound good at first blush, this is just another move by Trump to do to the entire federal work force what he has been doing for years to his cabinet and to the executive branch. It's hard to find a well-trained MD who will be anti-vax and agree that you should try mixing hydroxychloroquine with bleach to cure that cough, but finding some quack with years of experience peddling junk medicine on infomercials is a dime-a-dozen. And who needs a structural engineer from a top program to build that bridge. Just hunt down Ol' Larry who built a bridge on his farm.
I mean if we're talking someone to man the phones or deliver mail, sure. But if we're talking the scientists, doctors, and engineers who form the bulk of agencies like the FDA and the CDC, we could be screwed.
Likely though it won't really matter. The top jobs already look for both education and experience anyway.
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