***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[biggie62]

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/31/14457678/trump-order-immigrants-welfare

Guess ninjas mom is on her way out

 

[ninjahood]

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/31/14457678/trump-order-immigrants-welfare

Guess ninjas mom is on her way out

my mom been a citizen since da early 90's...

 

[whywesteppin]

I am in full agreement with my homie Ted Cruz. Please don't ever say I'm partisan:

"There is certainly long historical precedent for a Supreme Court with fewer justices. I would note, just recently, that Justice (Stephen) Breyer observed that the vacancy is not impacting the ability of the court to do its job. That's a debate that we are going to have."

 

[whywesteppin]

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/31/14457678/trump-order-immigrants-welfare

I think this country needs to visit the issue of naturalized citizens who are receiving government assistance.

Our first priority is to assist Americans who have been here for generations. It's an undue burden on our economy and also very tremendously unfair for naturalized citizens to be using up government assistance. We already did enough for them to let them come to this great land of ours. We did so with the understanding that they would contribute to this country. So a full review of the taxes paid and public assistance received by all naturalized citizens from the day they came to this country until now would be a way to make America great again. I suggest any economic benefits reaped by these leeches, even if it wasn't direct monetary benefits but tax breaks or price controls, should be paid back in full along with compounded 5% annual interest and $5k/year fines.

If they can't pay, they should be immediately deported and their assets seized.

 

[00david00]

I'm not so sure GOP needs to go nuclear. What happens if they don't budge?

The filibuster means senate is gridlocked, how long would dems actually do that? No budget? Gov shutdown?

If this were a short term play I could see where it could work, but the term just started.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Good thing Ninja can get back MSRP for his liberal artifacts

 

[jape]

 

[MVP]

I'm not so sure GOP needs to go nuclear. What happens if they don't budge?

The filibuster means senate is gridlocked, how long would dems actually do that? No budget? Gov shutdown?

If this were a short term play I could see where it could work, but the term just started.

GOP had no problem doing it from 2014 to this past election. I say fight until the next midterms. 

 

[gry60]

Betsy DeVos, Rick Perry, and Sessions has legit outrage though.
The SCOTUS pick is whatever though, we knew he was going to pick a conservative judge. At least he's experienced and is qualified for the job whether or not we like his ideology.

No it had had initial outrage for a few days. Then you all moved onto something else. Her name is only being mentioned again because she made it out of committee.

Who's "you all"?
If it weren't for the immigration ban, the media would have kept focused on the cabinet choices, especially Betsy DeVos. People been angry of the nomination since she was announced.

https://thinkprogress.org/thousands...oppose-her-appointment-c1e8a50a972#.r7yq6uilw

Rico doesn't know what he is talking about. People didn't move on.

 

[rico x hood]

Who's "you all"?
If it weren't for the immigration ban, the media would have kept focused on the cabinet choices, especially Betsy DeVos. People been angry of the nomination since she was announced.

Exactly! That's what I'm saying. This SCOTUS pick is only going to be news for a couple days. People will be outraged about it. Media will fuel the flames. Then Trump will do something else and that'll draw the public's attention. And while that's being ad nauseum Neil is going to skate through with little public scrutiny.

 

[whywesteppin]

the Democratic line is that it would set a dangerous precedent if Republicans are rewarded for blocking garland last year by now getting to appoint a conservative judge. instead they will insist on the president appointing a moderate judge.

It's a decent tactic in that it puts the onus on the Republicans.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I'm not so sure GOP needs to go nuclear. What happens if they don't budge?

The filibuster means senate is gridlocked, how long would dems actually do that? No budget? Gov shutdown?

If this were a short term play I could see where it could work, but the term just started.

-You can go nuclear on a SCTUS pick and keep in place for regular bills.

-The GOP doesn't need to beat a filllibuster to past a budget this year. Plus the Density are generally against shutting down the government

 

[rico x hood]

https://thinkprogress.org/thousands...oppose-her-appointment-c1e8a50a972#.r7yq6uilw

Rico doesn't know what he is talking about. People didn't move on.

Except I do. That article was written 9 hrs ago. That just proves my point that no cared about her anymore after her gaffes during her testimony. The muslim ban was what took center stage. The only reason people are talking about her again is that she cleared committee...today.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Riko been in rare form lately

 

[EddieDoyers]

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/31/14457678/trump-order-immigrants-welfare

Melania would have got deported years ago if it was implemented when she first entered the US

 

[gry60]

https://thinkprogress.org/thousands...oppose-her-appointment-c1e8a50a972#.r7yq6uilw

Rico doesn't know what he is talking about. People didn't move on.

Except I do. That article was written 9 hrs ago. That just proves my point that no cared about her anymore after her gaffes during her testimony. The muslim ban was what took center stage. The only reason people are talking about her again is that she cleared committee...today.

What were journalists going to report on between the hearings and the committee vote? People care, and they can multitask.

 

[00david00]

I'm not so sure GOP needs to go nuclear. What happens if they don't budge?

The filibuster means senate is gridlocked, how long would dems actually do that? No budget? Gov shutdown?

If this were a short term play I could see where it could work, but the term just started.

-You can go nuclear on a SCTUS pick and keep in place for regular bills.

-The GOP doesn't need to beat a filllibuster to past a budget this year. Plus the Density are generally against shutting down the government

I meant if Dems were to filibuster the SCOTUS nomination, then legislation freezes, no? that would include passing budget? May be mistaken on that.

In that sense, it wouldn't be Dems forcing the GOP to go nuclear, but the GOP forcing the dems to go that route.

 

[EddieDoyers]

Who's "you all"?
If it weren't for the immigration ban, the media would have kept focused on the cabinet choices, especially Betsy DeVos. People been angry of the nomination since she was announced.

Exactly! That's what I'm saying. This SCOTUS pick is only going to be news for a couple days. People will be outraged about it. Media will fuel the flames. Then Trump will do something else and that'll draw the public's attention. And while that's being ad nauseum Neil is going to skate through with little public scrutiny.

Media doesn't always represent the people's general sentiment.
From what I seen other than wapost and nytimes, people have been like w/e about the scotus pick

 

[whywesteppin]

it's been kind of a slow news days. trump hasn't mocked anyone or insulted any families or nations. he just picked a boring white guy with daddy issues so that he can try to interpret the Constitution as being against sex. i would too if i had to live 70 years in this earth with a small ****. my billions of dollars are just mocking me, reminding me that nothing in the world can help me with my small ****. it's like being in love with your daughter...

so yes, we have plenty of time left today to mock devos's stupidity.

 

[everysingletime]

I wish there was more slow news days. It's not fun to read about Trump effing around with the government.

 

[whywesteppin]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/canada-pms-office-demands-fox-230032723.html

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's chief spokeswoman on Tuesday demanded that Fox News channel in the United States either retract or update a tweet that a gunman who killed six people at a Quebec mosque was of Moroccan origin because the suspect is in fact French-Canadian.

Fox news trying to become the new brietbart.

 

[gry60]

https://www.justsecurity.org/37010/steve-bannon-making-theres-white-house-paper-trail/

The White House did not respond in time to a request for comment.

The lack of a paper trail documenting the decision-making process is also troubling, the intelligence official said. For example, under previous administrations, after a principals or deputies meeting of the National Security Council, the discussion, the final agreement, and the recommendations would be written up in what’s called a “summary of conclusions” — or SOC in government-speak.

“Under [President George W. Bush], the National Security Council was quite strict about recording SOCs,” said Matthew Waxman, a law professor at Columbia University who served on Bush’s National Security Council. “There was often a high level of generality, and there may have been some exceptions, but they were carefully crafted.”

These summaries also provided a record to refer back to, especially important if a debate over an issue came up again, including among agencies that needed to implement the conclusions reached.

If someone thought the discussion was mischaracterized, he or she would call for a correction to be issued to set the record straight, said Loren DeJonge Schulman, who previously served in former President Barack Obama’s administration as a senior advisor to National Security Advisor Susan Rice. Schulman is now a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security.

“People took the document seriously,” she said.

During the first week of the Trump administration, there were no SOCs, the intelligence official said. In fact, according to him, there is surprisingly very little paper being generated, and whatever paper there is, the NSC staff is not privy to it. He sees this as a deterioration of transparency and accountability.

“It would worry me if written records of these meeting were eliminated, because they contribute to good governance,” Waxman said.

It is equally important that NSC staff be the ones drafting the issue papers going into meetings, too, said Schulman. “The idea is to share with everyone a fair and balanced take on the issue, with the range of viewpoints captured in that document,” she said.

If those papers are now being generated by political staff, she added, it corrupts the whole process.

It could also contribute to Bannon’s centralization of power.

 

[everysingletime]

People tryna operate without a paper trailer got stuff to hide.

It's not rocket science. This is beyond bs.

 

[rico x hood]

What were journalists going to report on between the hearings and the committee vote? People care, and they can multitask.

You have far too much faith in the attention span of the public.

Media doesn't always represent the people's general sentiment.
From what I seen other than wapost and nytimes, people have been like w/e about the scotus pick

Didn't say it did. The public drives coverage. And as we've seen since the primaries Trump is a ratings boon. "Trump: Muslim Ban" is a far sexier story than "Rich White Lady Not Qualified for Cabinet Position"

 

[whywesteppin]

long but good article about trump and why Congress may let him get away with it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/03/how-to-build-an-autocracy/513872/

Outside the Islamic world, the 21st century is not an era of ideology. The grand utopian visions of the 19th century have passed out of fashion. The nightmare totalitarian projects of the 20th have been overthrown or have disintegrated, leaving behind only outdated remnants: North Korea, Cuba. What is spreading today is repressive kleptocracy, led by rulers motivated by greed rather than by the deranged idealism of Hitler or Stalin or Mao. Such rulers rely less on terror and more on rule-twisting, the manipulation of information, and the co-optation of elites.

Civil unrest will not be a problem for the Trump presidency. It will be a resource. Trump will likely want not to repress it, but to publicize it—and the conservative entertainment-outrage complex will eagerly assist him. Immigration protesters marching with Mexican flags; Black Lives Matter demonstrators bearing antipolice slogans—these are the images of the opposition that Trump will wish his supporters to see. The more offensively the protesters behave, the more pleased Trump will be.

... Trump told the audience. “And I don’t like that. I’m totally against that. By the way, I hate some of these people, but I’d never kill them. I hate them. No, I think, no—these people, honestly—I’ll be honest. I’ll be honest. I would never kill them. I would never do that. Ah, let’s see—nah, no, I wouldn’t. I would never kill them. But I do hate them.”

The rulers of backsliding democracies resent an independent press, but cannot extinguish it. They may curb the media’s appetite for critical coverage by intimidating unfriendly journalists, as President Jacob Zuma and members of his party have done in South Africa. Mostly, however, modern strongmen seek merely to discredit journalism as an institution, by denying that such a thing as independent judgment can exist.

Yet there’s also something incongruous and even absurd about applying the sinister label of fascist to Donald Trump. He is so pathetically needy, so shamelessly self-interested, so fitful and distracted. Fascism feti****es hardihood, sacrifice, and struggle—concepts not often associated with Trump.

Those citizens who fantasize about defying tyranny from within fortified compounds have never understood how liberty is actually threatened in a modern bureaucratic state: not by diktat and violence, but by the slow, demoralizing process of corruption and deceit. And the way that liberty must be defended is not with amateur firearms, but with an unwearying insistence upon the honesty, integrity, and professionalism of American institutions and those who lead them. We are living through the most dangerous challenge to the free government of the United States that anyone alive has encountered. What happens next is up to you and me. Don’t be afraid. This moment of danger can also be your finest hour as a citizen and an American.

read it all if you have half an hour to burn.