Official Stock Market & Economy Thread

Originally Posted by DB WEST

Originally Posted by str8hustler

Hey DKY you said you want to be a corporate lawyer right? Im in law school now and I am really interested in Financials....do you have any suggestions or know of any legal areas for Financials?


Go into bankruptcy law. I work in a bankruptcy law firm, and the couple that owns the firm is making bank. Basically the collect debts for banks. What law school do you go to?

Hey thanks for the input...yeah I heard Insolvency law can be pretty big money. I was also thinking about mergers and acquisitions or securities. Any oneelse out there have suggestions? By the way I live in Alberta Canada and go to the University of Alberta Law School.
 
Gold, the dollar, and treasuries all rally on the same day?
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Just be smart and take profits guys bulls are going to get slaughtered....again.

I got a friend who dumped a whole bunch of money in Citi and like 2 and change. I know he isnt going to get out if he breaks even...dont be like my friend!
 
When are we falling again? I bought in last Wednesday, and am up 20.45% already
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. But I'm looking to make a much more sizable investment at the moment, butjust want to wait until we dip again. There's no way this is going to hold, right?
 
Originally Posted by XI ShinE XI

DKY do you think the rally will last til next week?

DKY is very knowledgable but he is not a prophet who can predict the future...some of you guys are asking him to breast feed yall
 
Let's not get carried away here, remember, in analyzing each banks balance sheet, analyst are already forecasting the future and taking into account markedlosses. The keyword with all these banks reporting "profits" here are that all this is PRE tax, and PRE writedowns. Keyword, PRE, what matters isPOST, not PRE. Any bank can pull in a profit with literally zero interest rates, but it's doing so after writedowns and other losses is what defines thesebanks.
 
By the way, here's something that DKY has been increasingly pointing out if you've been paying any attention: insurers.

[h1]The Next Big Bailout Decision: Insurers[/h1]

[h3]By SCOTT PATTERSON and LESLIE SCISM[/h3]
The tumbling financial markets are dragging down the life-insurance industry, an important cog in the U.S. economy, as mounting losses weaken the companies' capital and erode investor confidence.

A dozen life insurers have pending applications for aid from the government's $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, and the industry is expecting an answer to its request for a bank-style bailout in the coming weeks. The government so far hasn't said whether insurers will be eligible for the program.

Life insurers have taken a beating in recent weeks. The Dow Jones Wilshire U.S. Life Insurance Index has fallen 59% since the beginning of the year, leaving it down 82% since its May 2007 all-time high. The Dow Jones Industrial Average has lost 21% year to date, off 51% since its October 2007 record.

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Some of the hardest-hit companies are century-old names that insure the lives of millions of Americans. Shares of Hartford Financial Services Group Inc., which already received a capital injection from German insurer Allianz, are down 93% as of Wednesday's close from their 52-week high. MetLife Inc. and Prudential Financial Inc. are both suffering as the value of their vast investment portfolios declines.

Some life insurers are faring better than others, and some of the nation's giants retain triple-A ratings, including Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Co., New York Life Insurance Co., Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Co. and TIAA-CREF.

But as the economy buckles, analysts say many insurers face losses that can eat away at the capital cushions regulators require them to maintain.

Long-time experts say the industry is going through its most tumultuous period in recent memory. "It's a pretty scary scenario right now," said Pete Larson, an analyst at Gradient Analytics, a Scottsdale, Ariz., research group.

Some state regulators have lately extended relief from certain capital requirements. But insurers haven't received the kind of injections banks got in recent months. That's partly because insurers didn't gobble up risky assets, and also because as long-term investors, they generally don't have to recognize on the bottom line short-term dips in values of their assets.

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Bloomberg News

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Bloomberg News

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Associated Press

Life insurers have been taking a beating in recent weeks. The Dow Jones Wilshire U.S. Life Insurance Index has fallen 59% since the beginning of the year, leaving it down 82% since its May 2007 record high.

Ratings agencies and stock investors are growing concerned about how long the industry can avoid reckoning with the distressed assets on their books. Rating agencies Moody's Investors Service, Standard & Poor's and A.M. Best have cut the ratings of more than a dozen insurers in recent weeks.

The ramifications of a weakened life-insurance industry for the overall economy are significant. Life insurers are among the biggest holders of the nation's corporate debt. Together, they own about 18% of all corporate bonds outstanding, according to the American Council of Life Insurers, or ACLI, an industry trade group.

If life insurers stop buying bonds, the capital markets may not fully recover, say insurance industry representatives and analysts. Already, their buying activity has slumped. In the fourth quarter of 2008, life insurers agreed to buy $3.3 billion in stocks and bonds through private transactions, down 63% from the previous quarter, according to a survey by the ACLI. Insurers have been putting more cash into safe havens such as Treasury bonds.

Any sign of vulnerability among life insurers could further erode confidence and make jittery consumers reluctant to buy insurance products, analysts and financial advisers say. "I get as many emails from subscribers who worry about their policies as they do about their stock," said Morningstar analyst Alan Rambaldini, who covers life-insurance companies. Though life-insurance and variable-annuity sales fell industrywide in the fourth quarter of 2008, analysts say it is too soon to trace declines to consumer concerns about the stock action.

Ratings firms and Wall Street analysts say another problem for some life insurers is obligations for variable annuities, a retirement-income product that often guarantees minimum withdrawals or investment returns. As stock markets plunge to fresh lows, life insurers need to set aside additional funds to show regulators that they can meet their obligations, further crimping spare capital.

The industry has several things in its favor. Life insurers will likely continue to generate cash from the premiums on their policies, some analysts and executives say. And unlike investment banks and many other financial firms, life insurers don't need to routinely raise money in the capital markets to fund daily operations. Few of the biggest ones have any sizable debt of their own maturing in 2009. Many insurers have built up big cash chests in recent months, by hoarding their incoming premiums.

For now, the Treasury Department hasn't said whether life insurers will be eligible for TARP funds. Industry group ACLI expects Treasury to decide whether insurers will be eligible for federal aid some time later this month. "We don't have a clear picture of which way that clarification would tend to go," said ACLI representative Gary Hughes.

The Treasury Department didn't return calls for comment made late in the day.

One stumbling block is that the industry is overseen by state regulators, not a single federal agency. That means there's no group of federal officials responsible for it or with a deep understanding of its challenges.

The problems plaguing life insurers aren't the same as those at insurance giant American International Group Inc., which has received a $173 billion aid package. Its losses stemmed largely from derivatives, primarily credit default swaps, tied to complex securities that turned sour in the credit crunch.

Life insurers' woes have come largely from investment-grade corporate bonds, commercial real estate and mortgages, regulatory filings show. Many insurers ended 2008 with high levels of losses that, due to accounting rules, they haven't had to record on their bottom lines. MetLife, the nation's biggest life insurer by assets with $380.84 billion in its general account, had $29.8 billion in unrealized losses at the end of 2008.

MetLife says it is amply capitalized, with more than $30 billion in cash, and that it doesn't expect to realize significant losses from its investment portfolio. "We strongly believe that the way we've looked at our unrealized gains and losses is appropriate for our liabilities and for the most part that these [investments] will pay off," said MetLife spokesman John Calagna.

Hartford Financial had $14.6 billion in unrealized losses at year's end. Prudential, the second-largest insurer by assets, had nearly $11.3 billion in unrealized losses, up $5.4 billion in the fourth quarter from the previous quarter. Hartford didn't respond to requests for comment. A Prudential spokesman said, "We believe that we are adequately capitalized based on our objective of a double-A rating."
-Jessica Holzer and Michael R. Crittenden contributed to this article.
Write to Scott Patterson at [email protected] and Leslie Scism at [email protected]


 
Originally Posted by NikeFlightposite

SRS is at $60. Something is not right. Almost impossible for it to rise to $140 unless some miracle happens.

Dont bet on the double inverse ETF's over the long term they do not track the long equivalents the way you would think..
 
Originally Posted by theone2401

Originally Posted by NikeFlightposite

SRS is at $60. Something is not right. Almost impossible for it to rise to $140 unless some miracle happens.

Dont bet on the double inverse ETF's over the long term they do not track the long equivalents the way you would think..
sorry translation? I'm new to this, i was just going off Yay's prediction that SRS will dip to $80 and then rise to $140.
 
Originally Posted by NikeFlightposite

Originally Posted by theone2401

Originally Posted by NikeFlightposite

SRS is at $60. Something is not right. Almost impossible for it to rise to $140 unless some miracle happens.

Dont bet on the double inverse ETF's over the long term they do not track the long equivalents the way you would think..
sorry translation? I'm new to this, i was just going off Yay's prediction that SRS will dip to $80 and then rise to $140.
http://niketalk.yuku.com/...hread.html#reply-4833736

There's also a decay for these types of ETFs. Take FAS/FAZ for example. When the RIFIN.X (the index that FAZ/FAS tracks) was at 450 on 1/20/09, FAZ was88 & FAS was 7.63. Today RIFIN.X was at 450, FAZ 41.60, FAS 5.05.
 
Though I would like to see this bear bounce make its way to Dow 7500, which it still very well could do, the market is showing weakness at current levels andmay roll over soon. Stocks like Potash Corp. of Saskatchewan, a leading stock that I expect takes a huge discount fromcurrent levels, are at their 50DMAs and breaking right back down at them. The banks will be the best group to watch to determine where we head and if theSPDR Financials ETF (XLF) can make its way to its 50DMA around the $9 level, it should break down hard at it and bringthe market down with it.

General Electric (GE) and Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.A) should see big selling soon,as they just had important credit ratings downgraded from AAA, to AA+ by S&P and toAA by Fitch, respectively. Their bonds have been trading atjunk levels in the credit markets so the downgrade was highly expected by those who watch credit markets and more downgrades are expected looking forward.Moody's cut struggling REIT Developer's Diversified Realty (DDR) to junk levels this week, extendingthe recent credit rating problems REITs have been facing (after S&P put nine REITs on downgrade watch lastweek). This should eventually lead to more downgrades in REITs and further implosion of the commercial real estate bubble. Watch for credit ratingagencies to react to bond markets and issue downgrades and cuts in weak equities, with equity markets reacting to the credit rating cuts with selling. Creditmarkets are the leading indicator.

Meanwhile, crude has been doing very well, up close to $50/barrel now, with the easing contango driving the US Oil Fund ETF(USO) back up to around $30 and approaching a breakout of its 50DMA. The bear bounce in the overall equity market has helped energy stocks bounce up soI think they will go down with the rest of the market once the bear bounce subsides, but it's only a matter before rising crude helps bring energy equitiesback into the picture. I am close to being bullish on energy stocks for the first time since late June.

Apple (AAPL), Goldman Sachs (GS), and PotashCorp. of Saskatchewan (POT) remain my favorite stocks to watch for eventual large bearish positions for when the market does indeed roll over.Google (GOOG) is another good one, working off its very oversold reading after its mini-inverse parabolic sell off, andit is now selling off at its 50DMA, so this could be the crossroads for this leading tech stock. Another leading Nasdaq stock, First Solar (FSLR), is finding resistance at its 50DMA and could sell off big from here, possibly back to double digits afterposting bad earnings late last month. The PowerShares Nasdaq-100 ETF (QQQQ) is finding sellers at its 50DMA, so techsmay indeed break down from here. The EUR/USD is at its 50DMA and could roll over at this level, and when equitiesfinally do decline, the Euro should go down hard with them, especially if and when the Eastern European crisis heats up and Western European bank exposure toit necessitates ECB intervention with currency dilation.

The equity rally has not been met with a comparable tightening of credit spreads, especially in sovereign CDSs, which are the most important to watch now thatthe biggest banks around the world are being heavily socialized. ZeroHedge has agreat piece on this recent phenomenon, and he, as well as I, believes that the credit/equity markets divergence signifies that the equity rally is just a bearbounce and not a sustainable rally indicating heightened risk tolerance and subsiding fear.
 
interesting DKY, goog and aapl at one point were predicted to get to 1000 and 300, respectively. now a year later they might be tanking, what a difference ayear makes.
 
"Industrial output drops in February
Industrial output drops for 4th straight month as factory operating rate falls to record low

Martin Crutsinger, AP Economics Writer
Monday March 16, 2009, 9:22 am EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The government says the nation's industrial output fell for the fourth straight month in February with the factory operating ratedropping to the lowest level in more than a half-century of record keeping.

The Federal Reserve reported Monday that industrial output dropped by 1.4 percent last month, slightly worse than the 1.2 percent decline that economists hadexpected.

The weakness included a 0.7 percent fall in manufacturing output, which pushed the operating rate at the nation's factories down to 67.4 percent ofcapacity last month, the lowest level on records that go back to 1948."
 
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This is crazy.

Citi is up almost 150% in the span of 10 days. I regret not buying.

GE back over $10 because UBS pulled their sell rating.

Everything about the economy still sucks. Just wait for the fall.
 
lol yeah..well i just sold FAS and picked up FAZ because FAZ is almost at a 52 week low and its bound to go up sooner or later.
 
Originally Posted by DaJoka004

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This is crazy.

Citi is up almost 150% in the span of 10 days. I regret not buying.

GE back over $10 because UBS pulled their sell rating.

Everything about the economy still sucks. Just wait for the fall.


i bought C with money left in my brokerage made about 1000 about to sell it today ot tomroorw
 
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