Okay, can we FINALLY admit.....

[ace rawstein]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by KingJames23

people think scoring is basketball.

there are like 12 facets of basketball and scoring is ONE facet....

i think durant DOES have defense, it's just nowhere near the tenacity of Lebron James' defense...

just like kobe, of course kobe is a better scorer than bron...he's the best scorer in the leauge...

arguably the best scorer to ever live...

THATS ONE ASPECT OF THE GAME OF BASKETBALL

lebron is expoentially better at every other facet of the game....

there are PLENTY of dudes who can put up buckets with much more ease than lebron can, and they do so , regularly...

BUT THAT DOESNT MAKE THEM BETTER PLAYERS

dude can literally play 4 positions on the court.

Kevin Durant is 6'10" and can't play 4 positions...

I see what ur saying...but not to speak for everybody but most of us view Jordan as the standard, some will argue he wasnt all that in the aspects that ur backing Lebron on. Yet he was considered the best year in year out.
Then u have Kobe, who is almost* matching the standard. So as long as Kobe playing and then prolly even more after he retires...., how u plan to lead ppl over the fact that guys with only 1 to 2 aspects of their game being better than Lebron...are actually not better than lebron because he is more skilled?

basically...so what he can play four positions on the court

 

[seymore cake]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Errrrrrrr... You had me then you lost me... Considering that he broke Peytons TD record by 1 and it literally came during the last 17mins of the regular season in which he play damn near every snap attempted to and successfully threw for TD when his team was already the victor by a overwhelming amount in quite a few games compared to Peyton sitting out damn near half of the 4th quarter when the game was already decided as well as not attempting to run the score up each and every week along with playing what 2 possession of the last game (basically keeping his string of starts going) doesn't show me Brady's better... Hell if anything it shows the exact opposite especially considering that theres a snowballs chance in hell The Colts don't go undefeated last year had the coach actually went for it but thats me

you mad.

Peyton fans argue he's better due to statistics....i argue his statistics are better because he has thrown the ball to two hall-of-fame WRs throughout his career. when marvin harrison was in his prime, peyton manning LITERALLY threw fades every time the safeties didnt zone over man....EVERY TIME...that was literally the play ANY TIME THIS HAPPEND...

if you need more evidence that great recievers make the QB, look no further than Dante Culpepper, who was a 2 time all pro quarterback, his first game without randy moss (or chris carter for that matter)

dude threw 5 picks in like 25 attempts...why? HE HAD NEVER SEEN A COVERAGE BESIDES A CHEATING COVER THREE TO MOSS' SIDE OR A MAN UNDER ZONE...EVER...HE HAD NEVER PROFESSIONALLY SEEN THESE ZONES

i mean, peyton is a beast, a true quarterback, one of the greatest...

but tom brady has him edged out in every measurable aspect of the position...

once he got quality recievers, he broke the record...period. regardless of HOW he broke the record, he broke it....the first year....



I'm not mad at all I watched the games for both of those seasons...  

Peyton's 16th game of 2004: Series Played: 1  Passes Attempted 2  Passes Completed: 1 Yards: 3 TD's 0
Brady's 16th game of 2007 : Series Played: All  Passes Attempted: 42  Passes Completed: 32 Yards: 356 TD: 2

Yet Brady still only finished 249yrs and 1 TD ahead of him even though he played damn near every series in 11 games in which the score was decided by 3 or more touchdowns including the 56-10 beating of Buff in which he threw 5 touchdowns compared to Peyton's 3 none of which Indy topped 50.

Brady's season was like David Robinson scoring 73 in the last game of the season to get the scoring record...Or that Ricky Davis triple double way back when... ;lol ...  Yea you got it but you got it through extreme over reaching means, so it doesn't have the same  in that regard.  But anybody who watched the game knows how you got it and

 at it.

  

 

[seymore cake]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Errrrrrrr... You had me then you lost me... Considering that he broke Peytons TD record by 1 and it literally came during the last 17mins of the regular season in which he play damn near every snap attempted to and successfully threw for TD when his team was already the victor by a overwhelming amount in quite a few games compared to Peyton sitting out damn near half of the 4th quarter when the game was already decided as well as not attempting to run the score up each and every week along with playing what 2 possession of the last game (basically keeping his string of starts going) doesn't show me Brady's better... Hell if anything it shows the exact opposite especially considering that theres a snowballs chance in hell The Colts don't go undefeated last year had the coach actually went for it but thats me

you mad.

Peyton fans argue he's better due to statistics....i argue his statistics are better because he has thrown the ball to two hall-of-fame WRs throughout his career. when marvin harrison was in his prime, peyton manning LITERALLY threw fades every time the safeties didnt zone over man....EVERY TIME...that was literally the play ANY TIME THIS HAPPEND...

if you need more evidence that great recievers make the QB, look no further than Dante Culpepper, who was a 2 time all pro quarterback, his first game without randy moss (or chris carter for that matter)

dude threw 5 picks in like 25 attempts...why? HE HAD NEVER SEEN A COVERAGE BESIDES A CHEATING COVER THREE TO MOSS' SIDE OR A MAN UNDER ZONE...EVER...HE HAD NEVER PROFESSIONALLY SEEN THESE ZONES

i mean, peyton is a beast, a true quarterback, one of the greatest...

but tom brady has him edged out in every measurable aspect of the position...

once he got quality recievers, he broke the record...period. regardless of HOW he broke the record, he broke it....the first year....



I'm not mad at all I watched the games for both of those seasons...  

Peyton's 16th game of 2004: Series Played: 1  Passes Attempted 2  Passes Completed: 1 Yards: 3 TD's 0
Brady's 16th game of 2007 : Series Played: All  Passes Attempted: 42  Passes Completed: 32 Yards: 356 TD: 2

Yet Brady still only finished 249yrs and 1 TD ahead of him even though he played damn near every series in 11 games in which the score was decided by 3 or more touchdowns including the 56-10 beating of Buff in which he threw 5 touchdowns compared to Peyton's 3 none of which Indy topped 50.

Brady's season was like David Robinson scoring 73 in the last game of the season to get the scoring record...Or that Ricky Davis triple double way back when... ;lol ...  Yea you got it but you got it through extreme over reaching means, so it doesn't have the same  in that regard.  But anybody who watched the game knows how you got it and

 at it.

  

 

[bonafide101]

He is MVP worthy, but he's won it 2 straight times, we know he's great already. Give it to someone else! Derrick Rose!!

I also agree that he's the best player in the league, but it's hard for people to agree because he doesn't have the rings to back it up. Maybe that'll change soon with this improved team he's got now.

 

[bonafide101]

He is MVP worthy, but he's won it 2 straight times, we know he's great already. Give it to someone else! Derrick Rose!!

I also agree that he's the best player in the league, but it's hard for people to agree because he doesn't have the rings to back it up. Maybe that'll change soon with this improved team he's got now.

 

[mjsaver]

OP your slurping is H.O.F status right now seriously.

Most people would agree Lebron is the best or at the very least a f'n beast on the court so this thread is basically meaningless.

 

[mjsaver]

OP your slurping is H.O.F status right now seriously.

Most people would agree Lebron is the best or at the very least a f'n beast on the court so this thread is basically meaningless.

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by CP1708

eNPHAN wrote:

---

this is why he signed with miami...

not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7, not 8.....

THEN, once he has two fists of rings, looking real bill russel'd out...

what will kobe fans say then?

So you have Bron winning a title every year from now until his mid 30's eh? 

When that doesn't happen......

what will kobe Bron fans say then?


Just throwing this out there, that 8 year run you just gave Lebron is 32 consecutive playoff series wins, and by that 8th year, Bron will be about 35, Wade will be like 38, and Bosh 37 I think????  That's an extra 250 something playoff games over the course of those years.  On top of all the games/miles that Bron and Wade have already accrued on their bodies. 

If that happens I'll give whatever props you want me to give Lebron. 

  

first off, LOL @ your sig team list...

second,

EYE didnt say it, BRON said it...i was clowning...

BUT, we do know one thing for sure, and that one thing is that Bosh/Bron/Wade will win AT LEAST one ring, and then, when you cant say "but he doesnt have a ring, which actually has nothing to do with individual achievement, but i will use it to criticize him, INDIVIDUALLY" what exactly will you say?

see, i dont bring up rings in arguments of INDIVIDUAL ACCOMPLISHMENT....because, again, it takes a 12-man roster to win a ring, and they hand out 12 identical rings....

Jordans rings are just as much jordans as they are pippens and vice versa....

like i said

why dont yall praise rober horry and bill russell if its all about rings?

if rings are the only tangible measure of a player's individual greatness, why isnt bill russell hailed as the GOAT?



yall gotta be high-school-aged...

@ how fast yall latched to this idea of winning 8 in a row.....because youre losing the argument...

EYE WAS  MAKING FUN OF THE CLAIM LEBRON MADE....

for the record.

you know they are gonna win a ring, for sure? really? nothing is sure... there were so many greats that never won a title..it's not a guarantee that when you are in the finals one year you will make it back the next. you are also ruling out injuries and other personal things that happen to players. and where bosh is having a bum ankle and wade is made out of glass, not so sure about them winning a ring. it's not about the chemistry of your own team, but also of the other teams. you never know who might kick you off your pedestal.look at seattle that got kicked by denver, a #8 seed.
  

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by CP1708

eNPHAN wrote:

---

this is why he signed with miami...

not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7, not 8.....

THEN, once he has two fists of rings, looking real bill russel'd out...

what will kobe fans say then?

So you have Bron winning a title every year from now until his mid 30's eh? 

When that doesn't happen......

what will kobe Bron fans say then?


Just throwing this out there, that 8 year run you just gave Lebron is 32 consecutive playoff series wins, and by that 8th year, Bron will be about 35, Wade will be like 38, and Bosh 37 I think????  That's an extra 250 something playoff games over the course of those years.  On top of all the games/miles that Bron and Wade have already accrued on their bodies. 

If that happens I'll give whatever props you want me to give Lebron. 

  

first off, LOL @ your sig team list...

second,

EYE didnt say it, BRON said it...i was clowning...

BUT, we do know one thing for sure, and that one thing is that Bosh/Bron/Wade will win AT LEAST one ring, and then, when you cant say "but he doesnt have a ring, which actually has nothing to do with individual achievement, but i will use it to criticize him, INDIVIDUALLY" what exactly will you say?

see, i dont bring up rings in arguments of INDIVIDUAL ACCOMPLISHMENT....because, again, it takes a 12-man roster to win a ring, and they hand out 12 identical rings....

Jordans rings are just as much jordans as they are pippens and vice versa....

like i said

why dont yall praise rober horry and bill russell if its all about rings?

if rings are the only tangible measure of a player's individual greatness, why isnt bill russell hailed as the GOAT?



yall gotta be high-school-aged...

@ how fast yall latched to this idea of winning 8 in a row.....because youre losing the argument...

EYE WAS  MAKING FUN OF THE CLAIM LEBRON MADE....

for the record.

you know they are gonna win a ring, for sure? really? nothing is sure... there were so many greats that never won a title..it's not a guarantee that when you are in the finals one year you will make it back the next. you are also ruling out injuries and other personal things that happen to players. and where bosh is having a bum ankle and wade is made out of glass, not so sure about them winning a ring. it's not about the chemistry of your own team, but also of the other teams. you never know who might kick you off your pedestal.look at seattle that got kicked by denver, a #8 seed.
  

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by Al3xis

he (and the Cavs ) can do whatever they want on the floor this year, if the voters share the same views as most people have had towards him the past 7 or 8 months they will not give it to him.

Sports writers love to spite athletes any way they can.

truth, but there comes a point where the results cannot be ignored...

example? mike vick.

  

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by Al3xis

he (and the Cavs ) can do whatever they want on the floor this year, if the voters share the same views as most people have had towards him the past 7 or 8 months they will not give it to him.

Sports writers love to spite athletes any way they can.

truth, but there comes a point where the results cannot be ignored...

example? mike vick.

  

 

[kingjames23]

Originally Posted by TCERDA

. So um yea... You have been proved wrong about his defense

How have I been proven wrong about LeBron's defense? The guy was 1st team all-defense last year and that's gonna stay the same way for a long time. Durant's D isn't on LeBron's level. Durant's D isn't ELITE.

 

[kingjames23]

Originally Posted by TCERDA

. So um yea... You have been proved wrong about his defense

How have I been proven wrong about LeBron's defense? The guy was 1st team all-defense last year and that's gonna stay the same way for a long time. Durant's D isn't on LeBron's level. Durant's D isn't ELITE.

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE



  

i appreciate what youre saying, but it just strengthens my argument more.

you dont think brady and belicheck and craft were tired of hearing "Peyton is SOOOO much better than brady" that they didnt PURPOSELY go out and get those guys, then, with an opportunity to break the record, wouldnt break the record?

that was so uncharacteristic of the pats, to GO AFTER highly-sought players....

So its the NFL's fault that manning was being pulled in 4th quarters?

i mean, when the rushing record was set, im sure eric dickerson didnt run the ball EVERY play...

i liken your argument to that of like "well, since he had a good defense, they had more downs than peyton had that year..."


you get x number of games in which statistics are recorded...

what you do with those x number of games (attempted passes, possessions, etc.) IS ENTIRELY UP TO YOU TO DETERMINE...

you can argue the fashion in which he broke the record, but the fact remains, he threw more touchdowns during a 16-game season than anyone in NFL history, right?

people want to shun lebron for his decision.....all he did was......sign as a free agent....that is a choice afforded to NBA players who's contracts expire....

the NBA hasnt seen a tandem this talented since MJ and Pippen....

noone was calling foul when boston got KG and Ray

noone was calling foul when the lakers got gasol and artest

noone was calling foul when orlando got 6 "on-off" all stars on their roster...(im kidding, but still)

etc. etc.

they curbed egos and money for team and winning...

you think lebron isnt tired of hearing "BUT HE DOESNT HAVE A RING"?

you think he's not tired of people saying kobe is better than him, when he was stuck with D-leauge bum +@$#*% for 7 years?

this is why he says he has no problem being the "bad guy"

cause, when it's all said and done, people are going to remember these PRECIOUS rings...

(in fact, i'd say if lebron didnt get SO MUCH criticism for "not winning the big one" he woulda never left cleveland. he left cleveland for one MAJOR reason, to WIN A RING)

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE



  

i appreciate what youre saying, but it just strengthens my argument more.

you dont think brady and belicheck and craft were tired of hearing "Peyton is SOOOO much better than brady" that they didnt PURPOSELY go out and get those guys, then, with an opportunity to break the record, wouldnt break the record?

that was so uncharacteristic of the pats, to GO AFTER highly-sought players....

So its the NFL's fault that manning was being pulled in 4th quarters?

i mean, when the rushing record was set, im sure eric dickerson didnt run the ball EVERY play...

i liken your argument to that of like "well, since he had a good defense, they had more downs than peyton had that year..."


you get x number of games in which statistics are recorded...

what you do with those x number of games (attempted passes, possessions, etc.) IS ENTIRELY UP TO YOU TO DETERMINE...

you can argue the fashion in which he broke the record, but the fact remains, he threw more touchdowns during a 16-game season than anyone in NFL history, right?

people want to shun lebron for his decision.....all he did was......sign as a free agent....that is a choice afforded to NBA players who's contracts expire....

the NBA hasnt seen a tandem this talented since MJ and Pippen....

noone was calling foul when boston got KG and Ray

noone was calling foul when the lakers got gasol and artest

noone was calling foul when orlando got 6 "on-off" all stars on their roster...(im kidding, but still)

etc. etc.

they curbed egos and money for team and winning...

you think lebron isnt tired of hearing "BUT HE DOESNT HAVE A RING"?

you think he's not tired of people saying kobe is better than him, when he was stuck with D-leauge bum +@$#*% for 7 years?

this is why he says he has no problem being the "bad guy"

cause, when it's all said and done, people are going to remember these PRECIOUS rings...

(in fact, i'd say if lebron didnt get SO MUCH criticism for "not winning the big one" he woulda never left cleveland. he left cleveland for one MAJOR reason, to WIN A RING)

 

[djprestige21]

Lebron Lebron Lebron

Lebron Lebron Lebron 

Interesting fact about Lebron 

Cavs Losing Season 

MVP, Cavs Losing Season

Bad teammates, Lebron Lebron Lebron

 

[djprestige21]

Lebron Lebron Lebron

Lebron Lebron Lebron 

Interesting fact about Lebron 

Cavs Losing Season 

MVP, Cavs Losing Season

Bad teammates, Lebron Lebron Lebron

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE



  

i appreciate what youre saying, but it just strengthens my argument more.

you dont think brady and belicheck and craft were tired of hearing "Peyton is SOOOO much better than brady" that they didnt PURPOSELY go out and get those guys, then, with an opportunity to break the record, wouldnt break the record?

that was so uncharacteristic of the pats, to GO AFTER highly-sought players....

So its the NFL's fault that manning was being pulled in 4th quarters?

i mean, when the rushing record was set, im sure eric dickerson didnt run the ball EVERY play...

i liken your argument to that of like "well, since he had a good defense, they had more downs than peyton had that year..."


you get x number of games in which statistics are recorded...

what you do with those x number of games (attempted passes, possessions, etc.) IS ENTIRELY UP TO YOU TO DETERMINE...

you can argue the fashion in which he broke the record, but the fact remains, he threw more touchdowns during a 16-game season than anyone in NFL history, right?

people want to shun lebron for his decision.....all he did was......sign as a free agent....that is a choice afforded to NBA players who's contracts expire....

the NBA hasnt seen a tandem this talented since MJ and Pippen....

noone was calling foul when boston got KG and Ray

noone was calling foul when the lakers got gasol and artest

noone was calling foul when orlando got 6 "on-off" all stars on their roster...(im kidding, but still)

etc. etc.

they curbed egos and money for team and winning...

you think lebron isnt tired of hearing "BUT HE DOESNT HAVE A RING"?

you think he's not tired of people saying kobe is better than him, when he was stuck with D-leauge bum +@$#*% for 7 years?

this is why he says he has no problem being the "bad guy"

cause, when it's all said and done, people are going to remember these PRECIOUS rings...

(in fact, i'd say if lebron didnt get SO MUCH criticism for "not winning the big one" he woulda never left cleveland. he left cleveland for one MAJOR reason, to WIN A RI

having d-league players? dont you think lebron is to blame for that as well? didnt he want jamison? didn he want shaq? if he won a title in cleveland he'd still leave, cause there was no way wade or bosh would go there...

james has no ring and until then all you say is just BS. there's no guaranteed win in sports
  

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE



  

i appreciate what youre saying, but it just strengthens my argument more.

you dont think brady and belicheck and craft were tired of hearing "Peyton is SOOOO much better than brady" that they didnt PURPOSELY go out and get those guys, then, with an opportunity to break the record, wouldnt break the record?

that was so uncharacteristic of the pats, to GO AFTER highly-sought players....

So its the NFL's fault that manning was being pulled in 4th quarters?

i mean, when the rushing record was set, im sure eric dickerson didnt run the ball EVERY play...

i liken your argument to that of like "well, since he had a good defense, they had more downs than peyton had that year..."


you get x number of games in which statistics are recorded...

what you do with those x number of games (attempted passes, possessions, etc.) IS ENTIRELY UP TO YOU TO DETERMINE...

you can argue the fashion in which he broke the record, but the fact remains, he threw more touchdowns during a 16-game season than anyone in NFL history, right?

people want to shun lebron for his decision.....all he did was......sign as a free agent....that is a choice afforded to NBA players who's contracts expire....

the NBA hasnt seen a tandem this talented since MJ and Pippen....

noone was calling foul when boston got KG and Ray

noone was calling foul when the lakers got gasol and artest

noone was calling foul when orlando got 6 "on-off" all stars on their roster...(im kidding, but still)

etc. etc.

they curbed egos and money for team and winning...

you think lebron isnt tired of hearing "BUT HE DOESNT HAVE A RING"?

you think he's not tired of people saying kobe is better than him, when he was stuck with D-leauge bum +@$#*% for 7 years?

this is why he says he has no problem being the "bad guy"

cause, when it's all said and done, people are going to remember these PRECIOUS rings...

(in fact, i'd say if lebron didnt get SO MUCH criticism for "not winning the big one" he woulda never left cleveland. he left cleveland for one MAJOR reason, to WIN A RI

having d-league players? dont you think lebron is to blame for that as well? didnt he want jamison? didn he want shaq? if he won a title in cleveland he'd still leave, cause there was no way wade or bosh would go there...

james has no ring and until then all you say is just BS. there's no guaranteed win in sports
  

 

[fac3 tak30v312]

The Cavs demise is really overblown. If anything I would blame their owner for it than any sort of glaring lack of talent. Case in point how well they were doing before Lebron came to town. Yeah Lebron is a great player but the Cavs reeling off 24 straight losses has more to do with the Cavs than it has to do with Lebron.

IDK after that loss everyone and by everyone I mean Mo Williams seem to get into the fetal position crying their way to the end of the season. Its as if they were reminded that Lebron wasn't going to come through those locker room doors and cuddle up with them. It reminds me of watching Clippers games 90s, no passion and no soul, just twelve guys waiting for their check to get cut at the end of the game

 

[fac3 tak30v312]

The Cavs demise is really overblown. If anything I would blame their owner for it than any sort of glaring lack of talent. Case in point how well they were doing before Lebron came to town. Yeah Lebron is a great player but the Cavs reeling off 24 straight losses has more to do with the Cavs than it has to do with Lebron.

IDK after that loss everyone and by everyone I mean Mo Williams seem to get into the fetal position crying their way to the end of the season. Its as if they were reminded that Lebron wasn't going to come through those locker room doors and cuddle up with them. It reminds me of watching Clippers games 90s, no passion and no soul, just twelve guys waiting for their check to get cut at the end of the game

 

[tcerda]

Originally Posted by KingJames23

Originally Posted by TCERDA

. So um yea... You have been proved wrong about his defense

How have I been proven wrong about LeBron's defense? The guy was 1st team all-defense last year and that's gonna stay the same way for a long time. Durant's D isn't on LeBron's level. Durant's D isn't ELITE.

Hey, I just posted the facts. Believe what you want. I thought blocks and steals was apart of defense? Their numbers are almost identical. And Im just responding to you saying his defense and rebounding wasnt on Lebrons level. Numbers dont lie bro. Sorry if this Salts you.

  

 

[tcerda]

Originally Posted by KingJames23

Originally Posted by TCERDA

. So um yea... You have been proved wrong about his defense

How have I been proven wrong about LeBron's defense? The guy was 1st team all-defense last year and that's gonna stay the same way for a long time. Durant's D isn't on LeBron's level. Durant's D isn't ELITE.

Hey, I just posted the facts. Believe what you want. I thought blocks and steals was apart of defense? Their numbers are almost identical. And Im just responding to you saying his defense and rebounding wasnt on Lebrons level. Numbers dont lie bro. Sorry if this Salts you.

  

 

[yeeupp]

I admitted it before, and I was right.

Lebron was the Cavs really.I did say.. the 2009 knicks were better than the 2009 Cavs minus Lebron and we def were.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

BUT, we do know one thing for sure, and that one thing is that Bosh/Bron/Wade will win AT LEAST one ring,

We know this for sure? 

 eNPHAN wrote:

---

why dont yall praise robert horry and bill russell if its all about rings?


You're not from around here are you? 

  I'm the last person you want to ask about Robert Horry and the word "praise"  I think Horry should be in the hall of fame, is that praise enough for ya? 

  eNPHAN wrote:

---

yall gotta be high-school-aged...



I am, just graduated last year......