1. They were not in the same boat. Bosh's team regularly underachieved. The only "underachievement" you could give to the Cavs was not winning a title or being eliminated earlier than planned, but that's how sports are -- no promises are made. And the reason that his team couldn't become "championship" caliber has a lot to do with LeBron. Those teams were made to KEEP LeBron, not to grow with him. The only commitment he made to the Cavs was to bring them a championship (Originally Posted by OnionSlice
1. LeBron is the same situation as Bosh. He played for a franchise that was NEVER serious about building a championship caliber team. Do you honestly think Mo Williams, 33 year old Antawn Jamison and a 37 year old Shaq were the best they could acquire? You say Bosh had to carry a bad team, but it's the same with LeBron. You could even make the argument that the Raptors without Bosh are a better team than the Cavs without LeBron.Originally Posted by illfrozn
1. If Wade and Bosh went to Cleveland, they would be receiving the heat (no pun) and yes, few would be upset with LeBron. Also, Wade already brought a championship to Miami. And I think we saw Bosh carry a team that tried to rebuild two or three times and was never really good. That didn't happen to LeBron.
2. Those guys (Shaq, Kareem, etc) were NOT hailed as the GOAT. Plus, they did not promise to bring a championship to their team. On top of it all, neither player joined a team with guys in their prime and the top 5 at the position. Also, Kareem was traded, dude. He didn't make the choice.
3. When people say "same team", you know they mean they didn't leave via choice, right? So, yes, MJ stayed with the same team, regardless of the moves of the FO. Can't believe you actually said that like some defense.
4. Also, the reason that the Bulls were so different when MJ returned is that the team had tried to build itself in a different way (around Pippen) and without the greatest player in basketball. So, when he came back, they tried to assemble a team that fit their franchise player. A team very similar to the first three rings.
2. Kareem wasn't considered as the possible GOAT??? Of corse he was. He still is. Kareem DID bring a chip to the Bucks. He didn't get traded to a great Laker team, but shortly after, they drafted Magic Johnson. He won 5 titles on one of the most stacked teams in history. AND, he actually did choose to be traded. He asked for it because after he became a muslim and changed his name, he wanted to go to a larger city where he would be able to practice his religion with other muslims. The Bucks franchise were nice enough to agree and traded him to LA.
3. It's not a defense. Tons of players get traded every year. Tons of free agents choose their team of choice every year. There's nothing to defend about. Kobe desperately wanted to get traded from the Lakers. He even asked publicly to get traded. The only reason he didn't go to another team is that the Lakers didn't agree to it. Would it have made him lesser of a player? Absolutely not. There's nothing wrong with it. There's no honor in losing and there's even less honor in sticking with a bad team for the $$$.
1. They were not in the same boat. Bosh's team regularly underachieved. The only "underachievement" you could give to the Cavs was not winning a title or being eliminated earlier than planned, but that's how sports are -- no promises are made. And the reason that his team couldn't become "championship" caliber has a lot to do with LeBron. Those teams were made to KEEP LeBron, not to grow with him. The only commitment he made to the Cavs was to bring them a championship (Originally Posted by OnionSlice
1. LeBron is the same situation as Bosh. He played for a franchise that was NEVER serious about building a championship caliber team. Do you honestly think Mo Williams, 33 year old Antawn Jamison and a 37 year old Shaq were the best they could acquire? You say Bosh had to carry a bad team, but it's the same with LeBron. You could even make the argument that the Raptors without Bosh are a better team than the Cavs without LeBron.Originally Posted by illfrozn
1. If Wade and Bosh went to Cleveland, they would be receiving the heat (no pun) and yes, few would be upset with LeBron. Also, Wade already brought a championship to Miami. And I think we saw Bosh carry a team that tried to rebuild two or three times and was never really good. That didn't happen to LeBron.
2. Those guys (Shaq, Kareem, etc) were NOT hailed as the GOAT. Plus, they did not promise to bring a championship to their team. On top of it all, neither player joined a team with guys in their prime and the top 5 at the position. Also, Kareem was traded, dude. He didn't make the choice.
3. When people say "same team", you know they mean they didn't leave via choice, right? So, yes, MJ stayed with the same team, regardless of the moves of the FO. Can't believe you actually said that like some defense.
4. Also, the reason that the Bulls were so different when MJ returned is that the team had tried to build itself in a different way (around Pippen) and without the greatest player in basketball. So, when he came back, they tried to assemble a team that fit their franchise player. A team very similar to the first three rings.
2. Kareem wasn't considered as the possible GOAT??? Of corse he was. He still is. Kareem DID bring a chip to the Bucks. He didn't get traded to a great Laker team, but shortly after, they drafted Magic Johnson. He won 5 titles on one of the most stacked teams in history. AND, he actually did choose to be traded. He asked for it because after he became a muslim and changed his name, he wanted to go to a larger city where he would be able to practice his religion with other muslims. The Bucks franchise were nice enough to agree and traded him to LA.
3. It's not a defense. Tons of players get traded every year. Tons of free agents choose their team of choice every year. There's nothing to defend about. Kobe desperately wanted to get traded from the Lakers. He even asked publicly to get traded. The only reason he didn't go to another team is that the Lakers didn't agree to it. Would it have made him lesser of a player? Absolutely not. There's nothing wrong with it. There's no honor in losing and there's even less honor in sticking with a bad team for the $$$.
1. Not gonna argue with that. It's a perfectly legit argument. I still hold my position, but yours is reasonable.Originally Posted by illfrozn
1. They were not in the same boat. Bosh's team regularly underachieved. The only "underachievement" you could give to the Cavs was not winning a title or being eliminated earlier than planned, but that's how sports are -- no promises are made. And the reason that his team couldn't become "championship" caliber has a lot to do with LeBron. Those teams were made to KEEP LeBron, not to grow with him. The only commitment he made to the Cavs was to bring them a championship (Originally Posted by OnionSlice
1. LeBron is the same situation as Bosh. He played for a franchise that was NEVER serious about building a championship caliber team. Do you honestly think Mo Williams, 33 year old Antawn Jamison and a 37 year old Shaq were the best they could acquire? You say Bosh had to carry a bad team, but it's the same with LeBron. You could even make the argument that the Raptors without Bosh are a better team than the Cavs without LeBron.Originally Posted by illfrozn
1. If Wade and Bosh went to Cleveland, they would be receiving the heat (no pun) and yes, few would be upset with LeBron. Also, Wade already brought a championship to Miami. And I think we saw Bosh carry a team that tried to rebuild two or three times and was never really good. That didn't happen to LeBron.
2. Those guys (Shaq, Kareem, etc) were NOT hailed as the GOAT. Plus, they did not promise to bring a championship to their team. On top of it all, neither player joined a team with guys in their prime and the top 5 at the position. Also, Kareem was traded, dude. He didn't make the choice.
3. When people say "same team", you know they mean they didn't leave via choice, right? So, yes, MJ stayed with the same team, regardless of the moves of the FO. Can't believe you actually said that like some defense.
4. Also, the reason that the Bulls were so different when MJ returned is that the team had tried to build itself in a different way (around Pippen) and without the greatest player in basketball. So, when he came back, they tried to assemble a team that fit their franchise player. A team very similar to the first three rings.
2. Kareem wasn't considered as the possible GOAT??? Of corse he was. He still is. Kareem DID bring a chip to the Bucks. He didn't get traded to a great Laker team, but shortly after, they drafted Magic Johnson. He won 5 titles on one of the most stacked teams in history. AND, he actually did choose to be traded. He asked for it because after he became a muslim and changed his name, he wanted to go to a larger city where he would be able to practice his religion with other muslims. The Bucks franchise were nice enough to agree and traded him to LA.
3. It's not a defense. Tons of players get traded every year. Tons of free agents choose their team of choice every year. There's nothing to defend about. Kobe desperately wanted to get traded from the Lakers. He even asked publicly to get traded. The only reason he didn't go to another team is that the Lakers didn't agree to it. Would it have made him lesser of a player? Absolutely not. There's nothing wrong with it. There's no honor in losing and there's even less honor in sticking with a bad team for the $$$.) and to give his all (which he did almost 100% of the time), but there was no way that team was going to win when the FO was forced to build around LeBron with a small window of time in mind. They went out and got some of the best players available at that time (and usually veterans). Looking back, yes, there were a lot of fails, but that's what happens when you build a team the wrong way. I feel that their hand was forced by LBJ and his actions ...
2. Ok, then, let's say Kareem was touted as the GOAT. Did he call himself that? Does he have a tattoo stating that?? Also, requesting or forcing a trade for personal reasons is MUCH different than what LBJ did. Also, the Lakers weren't very good at that time and there was no free agent coup with other players that were at top 5 at their positions. What does him being on a stacked team have to do with anything??
3. But you said it as if the Bulls were assembled like the current Heat roster.
1. Not gonna argue with that. It's a perfectly legit argument. I still hold my position, but yours is reasonable.Originally Posted by illfrozn
1. They were not in the same boat. Bosh's team regularly underachieved. The only "underachievement" you could give to the Cavs was not winning a title or being eliminated earlier than planned, but that's how sports are -- no promises are made. And the reason that his team couldn't become "championship" caliber has a lot to do with LeBron. Those teams were made to KEEP LeBron, not to grow with him. The only commitment he made to the Cavs was to bring them a championship (Originally Posted by OnionSlice
1. LeBron is the same situation as Bosh. He played for a franchise that was NEVER serious about building a championship caliber team. Do you honestly think Mo Williams, 33 year old Antawn Jamison and a 37 year old Shaq were the best they could acquire? You say Bosh had to carry a bad team, but it's the same with LeBron. You could even make the argument that the Raptors without Bosh are a better team than the Cavs without LeBron.Originally Posted by illfrozn
1. If Wade and Bosh went to Cleveland, they would be receiving the heat (no pun) and yes, few would be upset with LeBron. Also, Wade already brought a championship to Miami. And I think we saw Bosh carry a team that tried to rebuild two or three times and was never really good. That didn't happen to LeBron.
2. Those guys (Shaq, Kareem, etc) were NOT hailed as the GOAT. Plus, they did not promise to bring a championship to their team. On top of it all, neither player joined a team with guys in their prime and the top 5 at the position. Also, Kareem was traded, dude. He didn't make the choice.
3. When people say "same team", you know they mean they didn't leave via choice, right? So, yes, MJ stayed with the same team, regardless of the moves of the FO. Can't believe you actually said that like some defense.
4. Also, the reason that the Bulls were so different when MJ returned is that the team had tried to build itself in a different way (around Pippen) and without the greatest player in basketball. So, when he came back, they tried to assemble a team that fit their franchise player. A team very similar to the first three rings.
2. Kareem wasn't considered as the possible GOAT??? Of corse he was. He still is. Kareem DID bring a chip to the Bucks. He didn't get traded to a great Laker team, but shortly after, they drafted Magic Johnson. He won 5 titles on one of the most stacked teams in history. AND, he actually did choose to be traded. He asked for it because after he became a muslim and changed his name, he wanted to go to a larger city where he would be able to practice his religion with other muslims. The Bucks franchise were nice enough to agree and traded him to LA.
3. It's not a defense. Tons of players get traded every year. Tons of free agents choose their team of choice every year. There's nothing to defend about. Kobe desperately wanted to get traded from the Lakers. He even asked publicly to get traded. The only reason he didn't go to another team is that the Lakers didn't agree to it. Would it have made him lesser of a player? Absolutely not. There's nothing wrong with it. There's no honor in losing and there's even less honor in sticking with a bad team for the $$$.) and to give his all (which he did almost 100% of the time), but there was no way that team was going to win when the FO was forced to build around LeBron with a small window of time in mind. They went out and got some of the best players available at that time (and usually veterans). Looking back, yes, there were a lot of fails, but that's what happens when you build a team the wrong way. I feel that their hand was forced by LBJ and his actions ...
2. Ok, then, let's say Kareem was touted as the GOAT. Did he call himself that? Does he have a tattoo stating that?? Also, requesting or forcing a trade for personal reasons is MUCH different than what LBJ did. Also, the Lakers weren't very good at that time and there was no free agent coup with other players that were at top 5 at their positions. What does him being on a stacked team have to do with anything??
3. But you said it as if the Bulls were assembled like the current Heat roster.
i thought that was an oscar on the right for sec, i was like cot damn mj goes hard.Originally Posted by wiredz3
i thought that was an oscar on the right for sec, i was like cot damn mj goes hard.Originally Posted by wiredz3
Originally Posted by Mark Antony
i thought that was an oscar on the right for sec, i was like cot damn mj goes hard.Originally Posted by wiredz3
Originally Posted by Mark Antony
i thought that was an oscar on the right for sec, i was like cot damn mj goes hard.Originally Posted by wiredz3
