Race Relations in the United States - Let's Dialogue and Educate

[tomdiginson]

Originally Posted by natisfynest

So brushing your hair and looking presentable is a white thing?

Are you suggesting that black people who grow their hair naturally arent presentable especially when it is well taken care of? It sounds like you're saying in our natural form we arent presentable to society, but with some changes like perming our hair and bleaching our skin to become acceptable to.society. Ill pass.

 

[bleach]

Originally Posted by natisfynest

Originally Posted by newmoanyuh

Originally Posted by natisfynest

So brushing your hair and looking presentable is a white thing?

no, being forced to chemically straitening your hair to be considered "presentable" is the problem.


her hair isn't "unkempt" or "unbrushed" that's how it naturally grows from her head and it's really well taken care of.

Well yea being forced to chemically alter your hair is about as dumb as being asked for your facebook log in I agree with that. Her hair looks fine IMO. But I bet she didnt just wake up and walk out the house with her hair looking like that. 

i still dont understand why you keeping bringing this up.  that is not the issue...

 

[peteweezy]

Your jaw just dropped cause the chick wasn't trying to give YOU a chance be real. It's a lot of chicks with stupid beliefs but if it don't affect you you don't care.

 

[marcmac360]

Originally Posted by RedMan

I have always wondered this: I'm a mixed man my mother is white and my father is black what race am I suppose associate with? It's almost funny how neither race accepts me lol. It's as if I'm too dark for the whites and too light for the blacks

A couple weeks ago my homie's girl wanted my homie to send her a pic of one his friends so his girl could put him onto one of her friends. After my homie's girl sent the pic to her friend her friend replied with "he's real cute BUT I don't deal with light skin men because they're nothing but trouble". My jaw dropped at that reply.

Do you have different behavior patterns when dealing with fellow whites or fellow blacks? Like do you/would you act different with white friends, coworkers, bosses than you would with black friends, coworkers, bosses in the same settings?
  

 

[natisfynest]

When did I say presentable is straight? Again reaching. And anyone who would tell her that is reaching just like you are.

It seems you are taking me saying brushing hair as the same as straightening. I was coming more from the make it look like you give a %!$# about your appearance whether it be a fro,fade, hell even dreads can be presentable. But I guess regardless of how I present/explain my point it will be wrong in your opinion so I will just drop it.

 

[natisfynest]

Originally Posted by TomDiginson

Originally Posted by natisfynest

So brushing your hair and looking presentable is a white thing?

Are you suggesting that black people who grow their hair naturally arent presentable especially when it is well taken care of? It sounds like you're saying in our natural form we arent presentable to society, but with some changes like perming our hair and bleaching our skin to become acceptable to.society. Ill pass.

The only response you will get to this statement is WOW

 

[ccastro02]

Originally Posted by natisfynest

When did I say presentable is straight? Again reaching. And anyone who would tell her that is reaching just like you are.

It seems you are taking me saying brushing hair as the same as straightening. I was coming more from the make it look like you give a %!$# about your appearance whether it be a fro,fade, hell even dreads can be presentable. But I guess regardless of how I present/explain my point it will be wrong in your opinion so I will just drop it.

You didn't. And when did i say that those who wish to embrace their natural hair shouldn't groom it? Again nobody is reaching.
But you assumed by my 1st statement that i was implying that people shouldn't groom there hair, which is not the case. I spoke in protest of woman straightening their hair to embrace more Caucasian features in relationship to them looking more presentable. And your response to my post was "what's wrong with trying to look presentable"? and i agree, however yielding to Caucasian features shouldn't make one more presentable.
   

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by RedMan

I have always wondered this: I'm a mixed man my mother is white and my father is black what race am I suppose associate with? It's almost funny how neither race accepts me lol. It's as if I'm too dark for the whites and too light for the blacks

A couple weeks ago my homie's girl wanted my homie to send her a pic of one his friends so his girl could put him onto one of her friends. After my homie's girl sent the pic to her friend her friend replied with "he's real cute BUT I don't deal with light skin men because they're nothing but trouble". My jaw dropped at that reply.

This girl deserves to be pushed in front of a bus.
To answer your question though, I really don't even know, I guess you would just have to do your best to please yourself, whatever that may be. From my experience, I've seen exactly

that same view where biracial people are shunned by both races for various reasons. I've also seen (depending on how bright/dark people end up) people just assimilate to whatever race

they look like and just keep it moving. There was this biracial girl back in college who was bright as Jessica Alba, and she joined this [mostly] white sorority and just fit right in smoothly. 

I guess it really is what you would mostly feel comfortable with, without alienating the other side.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

1. White women do NOT feel jealous of black women, maybe other - http://www.marriagepartne...rum/showthread.php?t=414 - 

2. 

 

[rolaholic]

Originally Posted by ccastro02

Originally Posted by natisfynest

Originally Posted by ccastro02

So natural curls isn't presentable to you? So woman with natural curly hair by default are at disadvantage from birth Your true colors are showing

Not at all but looking like you just woke up and walked out the door without touching your hair regardless of "color" does. My true colors? Why because I ask a question about up keep and being presentable? You're reaching.

But you agree that presentable hair is straight hair. And that is where we take issue with you. Reaching? Nope, just calling it as it is.

Despite having these beautiful curls, this girl here would be advised to straighten her hair in an event she was attending an interview.

Might I ask who this lovely lady is?

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican


1. White women do NOT feel jealous of black women, maybe other - http://www.marriagepartne...rum/showthread.php?t=414 - 

that chick is stuuuupid. I bet she really thought she was doing it back in 05.

 

[ham city]

I often forget how lucky I've been to live my entire life in Oakland/Berkeley. I used to be hella naive and just thought everywhere in America was like it is here.

 

[fantastic4our]

Originally Posted by ccastro02

Originally Posted by natisfynest

When did I say presentable is straight? Again reaching. And anyone who would tell her that is reaching just like you are.

It seems you are taking me saying brushing hair as the same as straightening. I was coming more from the make it look like you give a %!$# about your appearance whether it be a fro,fade, hell even dreads can be presentable. But I guess regardless of how I present/explain my point it will be wrong in your opinion so I will just drop it.

You didn't. And when did i say that those who wish to embrace their natural hair shouldn't groom it? Again nobody is reaching.
But you assumed by my 1st statement that i was implying that people shouldn't groom there hair, which is not the case. I spoke in protest of woman straightening their hair to embrace more Caucasian features in relationship to them looking more presentable. And your response to my post was "what's wrong with trying to look presentable"? and i agree, however yielding to Caucasian features shouldn't make one more presentable.
   

Interesting thing about this is a lot of white people don't know how a black woman's hair looks naturally because many still don't wear it naturally. They just don't know and the texture is foreign to them. Again, it's about education and black women being comfortable within themselves to wear their hair how it comes out of their head.

I for one am fine with however a woman wants to wear her hair as long as its healthy.

 

[josednk1068]

Do black men feel jealous of white men?
Do white men feel jealous of black men?

I would like to see what peoples thoughts are to these questions

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

Originally Posted by Josednk1068

Do black men feel jealous of white men?
Do white men feel jealous of black men?

I would like to see what peoples thoughts are to these questions

I think there is jealousy both ways.
*This is my opinion so don't flame me, and I don't mean to offend anyone*

I believe black men are jealous of the "white privilege" that white men have.  The ability to not be profiled by police and to live in a America were you don't always have to prove you're innocence.

I also believe there are white men who are jealous of the perceived "coolness" of being a black man.  Imitate how we talk, dress, music, etc.

That's just MY thoughts though, I'll gladly discuss any parts about what I said, I aint trying to offend nobody or screw up the thread though..so save the arguments.

 

[mangudai954]

Originally Posted by HAM CITY

I often forget how lucky I've been to live my entire life in Oakland/Berkeley. I used to be hella naive and just thought everywhere in America was like it is here.

Speak on it.

 

[the boss don]

its all political I hate it.

 

[41239]

Originally Posted by beh235

Originally Posted by slickp42189

Originally Posted by beh235

Sorry Slick, but I think that viewpoint is short sighted and blanketed. It would still cause problems with the mixed children with the whole "tragic mulatto" complex. To add to that, say it did "solve" the racism problem, you forget that we are still all human beings. In society, American society in particular, we feel the need to feel separate from others in some shape or form. So while you would think you would solve one problem, there would be another form of exclusion, elitism etc created among your beige legion

.

its blanketed, not short sighted, that tragic mulatto stuff is bs, im not saying i know enough biracials to consider it a valid case study but out of all the mixed kids i know/met theyve never had that roadblock, and i dont see it effecting anyone in the media, and i think youre thinking everyone would look the same, theres enough genetic variation to separate individuals even if you have a million biracial kids, some will look like halle berry, some will look like alicia keys, the racism wouldnt be as drastic but you would still have your exclusivity and elitism man dont worry, there will be rich mixeds and poor mixeds as well as ugly mixeds and pretty mixeds

1. It's BS huh? I beg to differ on that one
2. Media? Come on man, you mean to tell me you take cues from the media. G T F O H
3. I'm not a moron, I don't think there are going to be beige clones walking around

4. Looking like Halle Berry and Alicia huh?

. Turn off your TV and see reason #2.
5. Rich/Poor is a cross population issue. Pretty/Ugly? What is this high school? Come on man.

 I encourage you to read more through books and stop relying on google and shortcuts man. Of course not every bi-racial person is severely affected by  the "tragic mulatto" complex, but it certainly exists on some level. When bi racial kids hang out with majority black/white groups on occasion, on some level they may feel "am I black/white enough",  be it big or small. If they're in a well adjusted group it won't be an issue, but it's an issue. It's just a fact of being aware of who they are as a person. To me, you sound like you look at tv for examples, that's the wrong place to look for examples, when I made my points, I had every day people in mind,

lmao, of course you would think i watch too much tv and dont read just because i used the media as a reference to establish some sort of common ground with a total stranger, bottom line, yea mixed kids are going to think that OCCASIONALLY, the tragic mulatto complex is hardly a real issue
my whole point is that race would be as much of an issue because "yea jason is black but hes only half" kind of comments are thrown around all the time, black people are overlooked if theyre mixed so race wouldnt be as much of a profound issue as it is now, they are examples, if you want racial examples you can argue that there would still be segregation upon mixed kids dependent on their euro lineage but that wouldnt get nearly as much play as the current black situation

ok you had every day people in mind, so if i said my cousin miguel and my friend ben are both biracial and theyve never experienced a tragic mulatto complex that has shaken their mixed world, would that have been more credible to you? or would it have been only two biracial people out of the hundreds of thousands/millions there are in the world? or how about if i reference inconclusive case studies about race relations of biracial people? all of that wouldve been better than referencing halle berry and ak who are two biracial people who you clearly can identify with? dont project your prejudices onto me

 

[41239]

Originally Posted by Peep Game

Originally Posted by RedMan

I have always wondered this: I'm a mixed man my mother is white and my father is black what race am I suppose associate with? It's almost funny how neither race accepts me lol. It's as if I'm too dark for the whites and too light for the blacks

A couple weeks ago my homie's girl wanted my homie to send her a pic of one his friends so his girl could put him onto one of her friends. After my homie's girl sent the pic to her friend her friend replied with "he's real cute BUT I don't deal with light skin men because they're nothing but trouble". My jaw dropped at that reply.

This girl deserves to be pushed in front of a bus.
To answer your question though, I really don't even know, I guess you would just have to do your best to please yourself, whatever that may be. From my experience, I've seen exactly

that same view where biracial people are shunned by both races for various reasons. I've also seen (depending on how bright/dark people end up) people just assimilate to whatever race

they look like and just keep it moving. There was this biracial girl back in college who was bright as Jessica Alba, and she joined this [mostly] white sorority and just fit right in smoothly. 

I guess it really is what you would mostly feel comfortable with, without alienating the other side.

dude, stop it, there are more chicks checkin for light skinned dudes than dark ones, trust youre accepted and stop that fake cryin, my friend has a white gf and when he met her parents they said she "couldve at least gotten a light one", i get the "youre fine for a dark guy" stuff all the time, i wont go on but be for real, you can identify with both races, most mixed kids learn to identify with both by the time they get into the 7th grade

 

[ham city]

Originally Posted by Mangudai954

Originally Posted by HAM CITY

I often forget how lucky I've been to live my entire life in Oakland/Berkeley. I used to be hella naive and just thought everywhere in America was like it is here.

Speak on it.

It's kind of hard to explain. But reading the replies in this thread and race threads in general on NT, life experiences in other parts of CA, experiences just 15 miles east on the other side of the hills, it's hard to explain but it's just different here.

edit:

All that said, it's not that different. I originally made the comment because I was thinking about how as a black man here I just have to deal with less $*%% than I would in other places.

 

[obeahmyal]

Seems to me like thediscussion has gone off on a tangent with this heavy emphasis on hair texture.In any event I have a few thoughts on race relations in the unitedstates. 

 The OP was right topoint to the 13th amendment and the 3/5ths compromise as pivotal moments in thehistory of race relations in this country. I would also add that the failure ofReconstruction(1863-1877) was not only in the Freedmen’s Bureau’sinability to effectively redistribute 800,000 acres of which they controlled,but also rested with the actions of northern industrial capitalists whoresisted all attempts to seize and redistribute the private property of treasonous,rebellious Confederate planters. Despite the heroic efforts of Thaddeus Stevens,moderates in the Republican Party rejecting the idea of redistributing the veryland that black peoples made valuable. Although suffrage was granted tofreedmen, economic liberation never materialized. We still live in a world inwhich the sanctity of private property is the fundamental meaning of Americanfreedom. The deficient land ownership among African Americans explains whyblack American’s median income is the lowest of major U.S. ethnic groups. Checkout W.E.B. Du Bois’ Black Reconstruction in America for more on land, labor,and race relations.

 Also, a lot of talkabout the Isis Papers in this thread. I previously expressed my antipathytowards essentialist theories, which from what I gather, informs the core ofFrances Cress Welsing’s analsis. I have not read these papers. But since abunch of you have recommended the text without actually providing a basicsummary of her argument, I thought I’d suggest reading a review of the IsisPapers. You should be able to access Robert Elliot Fox’s “Afrocentrism and theX-Factor

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by natisfynest

IMHO, yes. I cant count how many times I have heard people say they dont like black people "because they are loud" or white people "because they are nosey"and so on. Which the only thing I can come up with is pure ignorance. How can you hate someone because of something so simple? There are a lot of things I dont agree with or like but I dont hate a whole entire ethnicity because of it.

This is the catch 22 with talking to white people about race relations. They accept, and in many cases admit to racism being present, but usually in the same sentence deflect the main issue, or offer that perhaps blacks got it all wrong, and white people aren't so bad after all. Ignorance is ignorance none the less, but the ignorance of racism is not an ideology that we walk around promoting. It is ingrained into the very fabric of the country. 
My main issue with black americans is our willingness to be victim to the same culture we feel oppressed in. We represent major purchase power, but where is this purchase power going? To companies not only owned, and ran by whites, but in often cases profiting off minorities. Endless cycle. 

 

[the fame]

Originally Posted by TeamJordan79

I often wonder if the roles were historically reversed, would it be the other way around? If not, would that imply that "whites" and "non-whites" are innately different in nature with whites having a proclivity towards subjugation of races they deem inferior?

To understand the phenomena of racial subjection we must look back to the origins of this mentality, manifesting out of the resourcefully disadvantaged, harsh, cold climate of the Northern Hemisphere, consisting of lands farthest from the equator of the earth, with dimished amount of sun exposure. This was the location in which the mental sentiments of racism/xenophobia towards neighbors and strangers was harnessed. The ecological pressures lead to a deprivation of life maintenance, endorsing a culture which pitted man against man, each hoarding, thieving, and conniving for his own survival.

Biologically speaking if Africans were placed in Europe, and Europeans were placed in Africa, then Africans would become Europeans, and Europeans would become Africans.

 
Get it? It would be the Africans who would be "White" due to the decrease in the prodcution of the skin enzyme Tyrosinase which is the precusor to melanin, and the Europeans would be "Black" due to the consistant amount of sun exposure and the increased production of melanin to absorb and ionized the otherwise harmful electromagnetic componets of sunlight.
The same would apply as far as the natural mentality of these groupings of people. Its would simply be flipped into the same. We would still have "Whites" subjugating "Non-whites" along with other "Whites" of the lower castes.




              

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by slickp42189

Originally Posted by Peep Game

Originally Posted by RedMan

I have always wondered this: I'm a mixed man my mother is white and my father is black what race am I suppose associate with? It's almost funny how neither race accepts me lol. It's as if I'm too dark for the whites and too light for the blacks

A couple weeks ago my homie's girl wanted my homie to send her a pic of one his friends so his girl could put him onto one of her friends. After my homie's girl sent the pic to her friend her friend replied with "he's real cute BUT I don't deal with light skin men because they're nothing but trouble". My jaw dropped at that reply.

This girl deserves to be pushed in front of a bus.
To answer your question though, I really don't even know, I guess you would just have to do your best to please yourself, whatever that may be. From my experience, I've seen exactly

that same view where biracial people are shunned by both races for various reasons. I've also seen (depending on how bright/dark people end up) people just assimilate to whatever race

they look like and just keep it moving. There was this biracial girl back in college who was bright as Jessica Alba, and she joined this [mostly] white sorority and just fit right in smoothly. 

I guess it really is what you would mostly feel comfortable with, without alienating the other side.

dude, stop it, there are more chicks checkin for light skinned dudes than dark ones, trust youre accepted and stop that fake cryin, my friend has a white gf and when he met her parents they said she "couldve at least gotten a light one", i get the "youre fine for a dark guy" stuff all the time, i wont go on but be for real, you can identify with both races, most mixed kids learn to identify with both by the time they get into the 7th grade

Who was that reply for 

?

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by THE FAME

Originally Posted by TeamJordan79

I often wonder if the roles were historically reversed, would it be the other way around? If not, would that imply that "whites" and "non-whites" are innately different in nature with whites having a proclivity towards subjugation of races they deem inferior?

To understand the phenomena of racial subjection we must look back to the origins of this mentality, manifesting out of the resourcefully disadvantaged, harsh, cold climate of the Northern Hemisphere, consisting of lands farthest from the equator of the earth, with dimished amount of sun exposure. This was the location in which the mental sentiments of racism/xenophobia towards neighbors and strangers was harnessed. The ecological pressures lead to a deprivation of life maintenance, endorsing a culture which pitted man against man, each hoarding, thieving, and conniving for his own survival.

Biologically speaking if Africans were placed in Europe, and Europeans were placed in Africa, then Africans would become Europeans, and Europeans would become Africans.

 
Get it? It would be the Africans who would be "White" due to the decrease in the prodcution of the skin enzyme Tyrosinase which is the precusor to melanin, and the Europeans would be "Black" due to the consistant amount of sun exposure and the increased production of melanin to absorb and ionized the otherwise harmful electromagnetic componets of sunlight.
The same would apply as far as the natural mentality of these groupings of people. Its would simply be flipped into the same. We would still have "Whites" subjugating "Non-whites" along with other "Whites" of the lower castes.




              
while an interesting thought, and I do feel as highlighted by guns germs and steel that geography has it's motivations, but that is still highly simplistic thinking that you just mentioned.