Re: Why Dark-Skinned People From The Dominican Republic Refuse Their Blackness

[0cks]

The great thing about cultural labels is that you can be whatever you want to be... or you're simply a product of your environment... they can't control your mind. Unfortunately (at least for some of ya'll embarrassed/self-hatin folk) race manifests itself in phenotypical traits... traits you don't control that are determined by a third party... it is what it is...

Originally Posted by Mr Marcus

now do I care if they embrace it? Hell no cause I honestly don't give 2 @$@*! about that poor *@! island and if they come to America then they're just as much of a n' as I am ....and all the denying in the world won't change that

That's it really...

 

[smookie]

yo im not black.. my skin is.

/thread

 

[smookie]

yo im not black.. my skin is.

/thread

 

[jermz101]

I never considered DR people black

Lets not reach here

 

[jermz101]

I never considered DR people black

Lets not reach here

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by 0cks


The great thing about cultural labels is that you can be whatever you want to be... or you're simply a product of your environment... they can't control your mind. Unfortunately (at least for some of ya'll embarrassed/self-hatin folk) race manifests itself in phenotypical traits... traits you don't control that are determined by a third party... it is what it is...

Mr Marcus wrote:

---

now do I care if they embrace it? Hell no cause I honestly don't give 2 @$@*! about that poor *@! island and if they come to America then they're just as much of a n' as I am ....and all the denying in the world won't change that

That's it really...
African immigrants do the same thing ninjahood is doing. No matter how much you attempt to separate yourself from other members of the African diaspora, you're not looked at any differently by white people.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by 0cks


The great thing about cultural labels is that you can be whatever you want to be... or you're simply a product of your environment... they can't control your mind. Unfortunately (at least for some of ya'll embarrassed/self-hatin folk) race manifests itself in phenotypical traits... traits you don't control that are determined by a third party... it is what it is...

Mr Marcus wrote:

---

now do I care if they embrace it? Hell no cause I honestly don't give 2 @$@*! about that poor *@! island and if they come to America then they're just as much of a n' as I am ....and all the denying in the world won't change that

That's it really...
African immigrants do the same thing ninjahood is doing. No matter how much you attempt to separate yourself from other members of the African diaspora, you're not looked at any differently by white people.

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by ooIRON MANoo

So should light skinned Hispanics embrace their "whiteness"?

My mom and dad both hail from Durango, Mexico. My dad is dark, looks like an Aztec warrior (lol), my mom is light skinned, blonde hair.

I don't feel white, people have confused me for being white. Should I add an extra bullet point on my resume "I'm White ;D"

Why is ninjahood more "hispanic" than black if hispanic culture is diverse? Ninjahood is not a descendant of the Aztecs. I'm clearly not talking about hispanics in general.....Peruvians are hispanic and have nothing to do with the "African diaspora".

oh so now anton wants to pick and chooses what HE feels fit to be a hispanic and whats black to him

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Why does he get the luxury of taking himself out of the black diaspora? Why is a "black person" from England black and ninjahood isn't?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arawak_people

The Arawak people (from aru, the Lucayan word for cassava flour) are some of the indigenous peoples of the West Indies. The group belongs to the Arawakan language family. They were the natives whom Christopher Columbus encountered when he first landed in the Americas in 1492. The Spanish described them as a peaceful primitive people.[sup][1][/sup]

The Arawak people include the Taíno, who occupied the Greater Antilles and the Bahamas (Lucayans); the Nepoya and Suppoya of Trinidad, and the Igneri, who were supposed to have preceded the Caribs in the Lesser Antilles, together with related groups (including the Lucayans) which lived along the eastern coast of South America, as far south as what is now Brazil.

The majority of the populations of Aruba, Puerto Rico, and on Hispaniola the Dominican Republic, and part of the Haitian population, are descended in part from the Arawaks — Taino in the case of the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico and to a much smaller degree the Ciboneys in the case of Haiti. The Ciboneys represent an earlier pre-Arawakan group that was found throughout the Caribbean. They were pushed out of the smaller islands of the Lesser Antilles and to the far west of the island of Hispaniola by the Tainos. The remaining Hispaniolan population was Arawakanized in speech.[sup][citation needed][/sup] Taíno/Arawakan Language is spoken in Jamaica, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Cuba, the Bahamas, Saint Lucia, Grenada, and Dominica by a few people in the present.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taíno_peoplehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taíno_people

[h2][/h2]

[h2]Taíno heritage in modern times[/h2]


Dominican girls at carnival, in Taíno garments and makeup (2005)

Many people identify themselves as descendants of the Taínos, most notably among the Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, both on the islands and on the United States mainland. The concept of living Taíno has proved controversial, as the historical canon has for so long declared the Taíno to be extinct.[sup][44][/sup]

Some scholars, such as Jalil Sued Badillo, an ethnohistorian at the University of Puerto Rico, assert that the official Spanish historical record speak of the disappearance of the Taínos. Certainly there are no full blood Taíno people alive today, but recent research does point towards a large mestizo population.

Frank Moya Pons, a Dominican historian documented that Spanish colonists intermarried with Taíno women, and, over time, these mestizo descendants intermarried with Africans, creating a tri-racial Creole culture. 1514 census records reveal that 40% of Spanish men in the Dominican Republic had Taíno wives.[sup][44][/sup] Ethnohistorian Lynne Guitar writes that Taínos were declared extinct in Spanish documents as early as the 16th century; however Taíno Indians kept appearing in wills and legal records in the ensuing years.[sup][44][/sup]

Anthropologist and archaeologist Dr. Pedro J. Ferbel Azacarate writes that Taínos and Africans lived in isolated Maroon communities, evolving into a rural population with predominantly Taíno cultural influences. Ferbel documents that even contemporary rural Dominicans retain Taíno linguistic features, agricultural practices, foodways, medicine, fishing practices, technology, architecture, oral history, and religious views. However, these cultural traits are often looked down upon by urbanites as being backwards.[sup][44][/sup] "It's surprising just how many Taino traditions, customs, and practices have been continued," says David Cintron, who wrote his graduate thesis on the Taíno revitalization movement. "We simply take for granted that these are Puerto Rican or Cuban practices and never realize that they are Taino."[sup][45][/sup]

A recent study conducted in Puerto Rico suggests that over 61% of the population possess Amerindian mtDNA.[sup][46][/sup] As of 2010 this study does specify that 80% of all Native American DNA markers are of the original people of Boriken and less than 20% of the markers are from outside tribes. Juan Carlos Martinez, a biology professor at the University of Puerto Rico who conducted his own mtDNA studies, says, "Our results suggest that our genetic inheritance of indigenous origin can't be very low and could be even higher than the inheritance from the other two races (Caucasoid and Negroid)."[sup][47][/sup]

Heritage groups, such as the Jatibonicu Taíno Tribal Nation of Boriken, Puerto Rico (1970), the Taíno Nation of the Antilles (1993), the United Confederation of Taíno People (199 and El Pueblo Guatu Ma-Cu A Boriken Puerto Rico (2000), have been established to foster Taíno culture. However it is controversial as to whether these Heritage Groups represent Taíno Culture accurately as some Taino groups are known to 'adopt' other native traditions (mainly North American Indian). Many aspects of Taino culture has been lost to time and or blended with Spaniard and African culture on the Caribbean Islands. Peoples who claim to be of native descent in the islands of Puerto Rico, Hispaniola and Eastern Cuba attempt to maintain some form of cultural connection with their historic identities. Antonio de Moya, a Dominican educator, wrote in 1993, "the [Indian] genocide is the big lie of our history... the Dominican Taínos continue to live, 500 years after European contact."[sup][48][/sup]


[sup]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taíno_people#cite_note-47[/sup]

anymore stupid assertions anton wants to spew?

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by ooIRON MANoo

So should light skinned Hispanics embrace their "whiteness"?

My mom and dad both hail from Durango, Mexico. My dad is dark, looks like an Aztec warrior (lol), my mom is light skinned, blonde hair.

I don't feel white, people have confused me for being white. Should I add an extra bullet point on my resume "I'm White ;D"

Why is ninjahood more "hispanic" than black if hispanic culture is diverse? Ninjahood is not a descendant of the Aztecs. I'm clearly not talking about hispanics in general.....Peruvians are hispanic and have nothing to do with the "African diaspora".

oh so now anton wants to pick and chooses what HE feels fit to be a hispanic and whats black to him

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Why does he get the luxury of taking himself out of the black diaspora? Why is a "black person" from England black and ninjahood isn't?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arawak_people

The Arawak people (from aru, the Lucayan word for cassava flour) are some of the indigenous peoples of the West Indies. The group belongs to the Arawakan language family. They were the natives whom Christopher Columbus encountered when he first landed in the Americas in 1492. The Spanish described them as a peaceful primitive people.[sup][1][/sup]

The Arawak people include the Taíno, who occupied the Greater Antilles and the Bahamas (Lucayans); the Nepoya and Suppoya of Trinidad, and the Igneri, who were supposed to have preceded the Caribs in the Lesser Antilles, together with related groups (including the Lucayans) which lived along the eastern coast of South America, as far south as what is now Brazil.

The majority of the populations of Aruba, Puerto Rico, and on Hispaniola the Dominican Republic, and part of the Haitian population, are descended in part from the Arawaks — Taino in the case of the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico and to a much smaller degree the Ciboneys in the case of Haiti. The Ciboneys represent an earlier pre-Arawakan group that was found throughout the Caribbean. They were pushed out of the smaller islands of the Lesser Antilles and to the far west of the island of Hispaniola by the Tainos. The remaining Hispaniolan population was Arawakanized in speech.[sup][citation needed][/sup] Taíno/Arawakan Language is spoken in Jamaica, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Cuba, the Bahamas, Saint Lucia, Grenada, and Dominica by a few people in the present.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taíno_peoplehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taíno_people

[h2][/h2]

[h2]Taíno heritage in modern times[/h2]


Dominican girls at carnival, in Taíno garments and makeup (2005)

Many people identify themselves as descendants of the Taínos, most notably among the Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, both on the islands and on the United States mainland. The concept of living Taíno has proved controversial, as the historical canon has for so long declared the Taíno to be extinct.[sup][44][/sup]

Some scholars, such as Jalil Sued Badillo, an ethnohistorian at the University of Puerto Rico, assert that the official Spanish historical record speak of the disappearance of the Taínos. Certainly there are no full blood Taíno people alive today, but recent research does point towards a large mestizo population.

Frank Moya Pons, a Dominican historian documented that Spanish colonists intermarried with Taíno women, and, over time, these mestizo descendants intermarried with Africans, creating a tri-racial Creole culture. 1514 census records reveal that 40% of Spanish men in the Dominican Republic had Taíno wives.[sup][44][/sup] Ethnohistorian Lynne Guitar writes that Taínos were declared extinct in Spanish documents as early as the 16th century; however Taíno Indians kept appearing in wills and legal records in the ensuing years.[sup][44][/sup]

Anthropologist and archaeologist Dr. Pedro J. Ferbel Azacarate writes that Taínos and Africans lived in isolated Maroon communities, evolving into a rural population with predominantly Taíno cultural influences. Ferbel documents that even contemporary rural Dominicans retain Taíno linguistic features, agricultural practices, foodways, medicine, fishing practices, technology, architecture, oral history, and religious views. However, these cultural traits are often looked down upon by urbanites as being backwards.[sup][44][/sup] "It's surprising just how many Taino traditions, customs, and practices have been continued," says David Cintron, who wrote his graduate thesis on the Taíno revitalization movement. "We simply take for granted that these are Puerto Rican or Cuban practices and never realize that they are Taino."[sup][45][/sup]

A recent study conducted in Puerto Rico suggests that over 61% of the population possess Amerindian mtDNA.[sup][46][/sup] As of 2010 this study does specify that 80% of all Native American DNA markers are of the original people of Boriken and less than 20% of the markers are from outside tribes. Juan Carlos Martinez, a biology professor at the University of Puerto Rico who conducted his own mtDNA studies, says, "Our results suggest that our genetic inheritance of indigenous origin can't be very low and could be even higher than the inheritance from the other two races (Caucasoid and Negroid)."[sup][47][/sup]

Heritage groups, such as the Jatibonicu Taíno Tribal Nation of Boriken, Puerto Rico (1970), the Taíno Nation of the Antilles (1993), the United Confederation of Taíno People (199 and El Pueblo Guatu Ma-Cu A Boriken Puerto Rico (2000), have been established to foster Taíno culture. However it is controversial as to whether these Heritage Groups represent Taíno Culture accurately as some Taino groups are known to 'adopt' other native traditions (mainly North American Indian). Many aspects of Taino culture has been lost to time and or blended with Spaniard and African culture on the Caribbean Islands. Peoples who claim to be of native descent in the islands of Puerto Rico, Hispaniola and Eastern Cuba attempt to maintain some form of cultural connection with their historic identities. Antonio de Moya, a Dominican educator, wrote in 1993, "the [Indian] genocide is the big lie of our history... the Dominican Taínos continue to live, 500 years after European contact."[sup][48][/sup]


[sup]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taíno_people#cite_note-47[/sup]

anymore stupid assertions anton wants to spew?

 

[antonlavey]

There are also DNA studies that show African American are more genetically similar to white Americans than Africans. 

 

[antonlavey]

There are also DNA studies that show African American are more genetically similar to white Americans than Africans. 

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

No matter how much you attempt to separate yourself from other members of the African diaspora, you're not looked at any differently by white people.

this is da problem that black people have that we dont.....WE DONT CARE ABOUT WHAT WHITE PEOPLE THINK ABOUT US......da minute black people stop caring is da minute ya progress as a culture.

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

No matter how much you attempt to separate yourself from other members of the African diaspora, you're not looked at any differently by white people.

this is da problem that black people have that we dont.....WE DONT CARE ABOUT WHAT WHITE PEOPLE THINK ABOUT US......da minute black people stop caring is da minute ya progress as a culture.

 

[thunderchunk69]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

There are also DNA studies that show African American are more genetically similar to white Americans than Africans. 

you would never simply say you're black

now you're saying you're genetically removed from African Americans

looks like you're trying to distance yourself

maybe OP can change the title thread to 'Why does Anton deny his blackness?"

and we can get people to pick and choose what points to argue with

 

[thunderchunk69]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

There are also DNA studies that show African American are more genetically similar to white Americans than Africans. 

you would never simply say you're black

now you're saying you're genetically removed from African Americans

looks like you're trying to distance yourself

maybe OP can change the title thread to 'Why does Anton deny his blackness?"

and we can get people to pick and choose what points to argue with

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by ThunderChunk69

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

There are also DNA studies that show African American are more genetically similar to white Americans than Africans. 

you pick and choose what to argue with

my argument is very simple, but he's choosing to ignore it. I'm not telling him to deny his Dominican culture....Im asserting that he's as black as people he chooses to separate himself from.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by ThunderChunk69

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

There are also DNA studies that show African American are more genetically similar to white Americans than Africans. 

you pick and choose what to argue with

my argument is very simple, but he's choosing to ignore it. I'm not telling him to deny his Dominican culture....Im asserting that he's as black as people he chooses to separate himself from.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

No matter how much you attempt to separate yourself from other members of the African diaspora, you're not looked at any differently by white people.

this is da problem that black people have that we dont.....WE DONT CARE ABOUT WHAT WHITE PEOPLE THINK ABOUT US......da minute black people stop caring is da minute ya progress as a culture.

by us you mean hispanics....like Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans.....that is what US is to you fam? There's notdifference in culture between Cubans and Dominicans?


And the denial that is prominent amongst Dominicans actually does show that you care about what white people think about you

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

No matter how much you attempt to separate yourself from other members of the African diaspora, you're not looked at any differently by white people.

this is da problem that black people have that we dont.....WE DONT CARE ABOUT WHAT WHITE PEOPLE THINK ABOUT US......da minute black people stop caring is da minute ya progress as a culture.

by us you mean hispanics....like Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans.....that is what US is to you fam? There's notdifference in culture between Cubans and Dominicans?


And the denial that is prominent amongst Dominicans actually does show that you care about what white people think about you

 

[0cks]

White people made the rules of the game... gave you your language... spawned the hispanic culture... all you do is pay tribute to da whiteman...

 

[0cks]

White people made the rules of the game... gave you your language... spawned the hispanic culture... all you do is pay tribute to da whiteman...

 

[thunderchunk69]

Originally Posted by 0cks

White people made the rules of the game... gave you your language... spawned the hispanic culture... all you do is pay tribute to da whiteman...

and in the case of African Americans? 

 

[thunderchunk69]

Originally Posted by 0cks

White people made the rules of the game... gave you your language... spawned the hispanic culture... all you do is pay tribute to da whiteman...

and in the case of African Americans? 

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by ThunderChunk69

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

There are also DNA studies that show African American are more genetically similar to white Americans than Africans. 

you would never simply say you're black

now you're saying you're genetically removed from African Americans

looks like you're trying to distance yourself

maybe OP can change the title thread to 'Why does Anton deny his blackness?"

and we can get people to pick and choose what points to argue with

basically...son completely oblivious to HOW taino and arawak tribes came from south america and spread all over Hispaniola, da island of puerto rico, and cuba...yet he wants to single out da dominican republic...

by us you mean hispanics....like Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans.....that is what US is to you fam? There's notdifference in culture between Cubans and Dominicans?
duh..............we're all hispanic

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by ThunderChunk69

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

There are also DNA studies that show African American are more genetically similar to white Americans than Africans. 

you would never simply say you're black

now you're saying you're genetically removed from African Americans

looks like you're trying to distance yourself

maybe OP can change the title thread to 'Why does Anton deny his blackness?"

and we can get people to pick and choose what points to argue with

basically...son completely oblivious to HOW taino and arawak tribes came from south america and spread all over Hispaniola, da island of puerto rico, and cuba...yet he wants to single out da dominican republic...

by us you mean hispanics....like Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans.....that is what US is to you fam? There's notdifference in culture between Cubans and Dominicans?
duh..............we're all hispanic