The 2014-2015 NBA Season Thread. Lock It Up Please: The Golden State Warriors Are The Champions

[a-friend]

Talking about keeping it real. Embiid doesn't know better or doesn't care.View media item 1276605
I guess he could be watching a College game and missing that life.

 

[niketalker23]

View media item 1276550

Boogie

 

[gangsta208]

Just throwing this out there people earlier in the thread questioned if the old model of building a team; ie 3 superstars had "died" the reality is the game hasn't changed much in terms of what wins titles. The only teams since 1980 to have a player average more than 8 assists in the regular or postseason and win a title are Magic's Lakers and Isiah's Pistons. Granted they are 7 of the 34 but in my humble opinion what the Spurs have done the past decade and a half isn't some new hair brained scheme its the way basketball has always worked. 

I look at Chris Paul and while I have warmed up to the idea that he is a legit top 10 probably top 5 player in the NBA he just has the damn ball too much for the Clippers to win a title at this point. He isn't Magic with the overall floor game, and while Isiah is the best comparison for him overall he hasn't been that type of scorer the past 5 years post Meniscus surgery. 

Look at the top teams today:

Spurs: ball movement, multiple guys who create opportunities for teammates

Bulls :  moving toward more ball movement, multiple guys who create opportunities for teammates

Cavs: Ideally suited toward a similar system with the 2 of the 5 best non guard passers in the league

Clippers If Jamal Crawford played defense they would be in a better position

Thunder  when Russ Westbrook can defend 2's on a consistent basis to the point Jackson gets on the floor more they are set in this regard 

The point is that from a team building aspect nothing has changed the outliers Magic and to an extent Isiah just messed up perception.

OK cool lets look at the outliers

Magic 1980 post season 

Had 4 other guys average 9+ points per game

legit finishers, and Nixon averaged almost 8 as well which means 2 primary shot creators

Magic in 1982 is the same thing

Magic in 1985 had 6 guys not named Earvin average double figures in the post season regular season was 5 with Cooper as the backup PG/ another finisher 

1987 same thing

1988 it was 5 

1989

Isiah it was 5 with Mahorn and Salley contributing 7+ and providing defensive presence 

Probably the real outlier as imo those guys got lucky

Either you have a transcendent scorer ala MJ or Shaq first title, you have 4 or 5 + guys scoring double figures or you have the 2 best players on the planet at the time in KOBE AND SHAQ. That's the last 33 years in a nutshell 

The Spurs aren't transcending basketball, The zone Defense, and strong side overload era hasn't changed anything but the mechanics. So when we go to evaluate teams think about that.

This brings me back to Paul and Rondo... You cannot have a 25%+ usage rate as a point guard  not be in tandom the 2 best players on the planet at the time and win titles. You can go back to the 50's and see that

 

[keel252]

this dude steph put on a show last night. damn, dude is so smooth with that pill in his hands.

 

[pmatic]

Just throwing this out there people earlier in the thread questioned if the old model of building a team; ie 3 superstars had "died" the reality is the game hasn't changed much in terms of what wins titles. The only teams since 1980 to have a player average more than 8 assists in the regular or postseason and win a title are Magic's Lakers and Isiah's Pistons. Granted they are 7 of the 34 but in my humble opinion what the Spurs have done the past decade and a half isn't some new hair brained scheme its the way basketball has always worked. 

I look at Chris Paul and while I have warmed up to the idea that he is a legit top 10 probably top 5 player in the NBA he just has the damn ball too much for the Clippers to win a title at this point. He isn't Magic with the overall floor game, and while Isiah is the best comparison for him overall he hasn't been that type of scorer the past 5 years post Meniscus surgery. 

Look at the top teams today:
Spurs: ball movement, multiple guys who create opportunities for teammates
Bulls :  moving toward more ball movement, multiple guys who create opportunities for teammates
Cavs: Ideally suited toward a similar system with the 2 of the 5 best non guard passers in the league
Clippers If Jamal Crawford played defense they would be in a better position
Thunder  when Russ Westbrook can defend 2's on a consistent basis to the point Jackson gets on the floor more they are set in this regard 

The point is that from a team building aspect nothing has changed the outliers Magic and to an extent Isiah just messed up perception.
OK cool lets look at the outliers
Magic 1980 post season 
Had 4 other guys average 9+ points per game
legit finishers, and Nixon averaged almost 8 as well which means 2 primary shot creators
Magic in 1982 is the same thing
Magic in 1985 had 6 guys not named Earvin average double figures in the post season regular season was 5 with Cooper as the backup PG/ another finisher 
1987 same thing
1988 it was 5 

1989
Isiah it was 5 with Mahorn and Salley contributing 7+ and providing defensive presence 
Probably the real outlier as imo those guys got lucky

Either you have a transcendent scorer ala MJ or Shaq first title, you have 4 or 5 + guys scoring double figures or you have the 2 best players on the planet at the time in KOBE AND SHAQ. That's the last 33 years in a nutshell 
The Spurs aren't transcending basketball, The zone Defense, and strong side overload era hasn't changed anything but the mechanics. So when we go to evaluate teams think about that.
This brings me back to Paul and Rondo... You cannot have a 25%+ usage rate as a point guard  not be in tandom the 2 best players on the planet at the time and win titles. You can go back to the 50's and see that

Jonathan Tjarks wrote an interesting piece on Paul earlier this week that touches on some similar points.

Chris Paul: Hate Hard

http://patternofbasketball.blogspot.com/2014/11/chris-paul-hate-hard.html

 

[airdeuces]

Talking about keeping it real. Embiid doesn't know better or doesn't care.View media item 1276605
I guess he could be watching a College game and missing that life.

I don't blame him... He went from being the man his whole life to being a player on a loser team, and not a star. It's a tough transition.

 

[humpasaurus rex]

I remember dudes were saying Curry didn't deserve the extension because he had glass ankles. Boy were they wrong and Golden States management right. Best value contract in the league.

 

[airdeuces]

I don't know what it is, I just don't see it in Chris Paul. I think he's good, but not great imo. I can just think of many players I would rather have at that position.

I don't know what it is, he doesn't really scare me like Steph, Russell, Kyrie, Kyle Lowry, Tony Parker, Rondo, etc.

Maybe it's the playoff record, idk. In my opinion, if you are the best point guard, you have to get past the second round at least once in your career.

Listen, how much does the media no matter where you look say how GREAT and the Clippers are, how they have great players to surround Paul all around, they practically suck them all the time. But when they lose, they go right to saying "Chris Paul has no help" "They can't conpare to other teams" Like what?? Lol

I'm not saying Chris has to win a championship. Or even win the conference finals. If you're the best, go out there and carry your team. He has a great team to do it, it's not like he doesn't have th help necessary to do so. He has the team , the talent, the coach, (Vinny Del Negro wasn't even that bad tbh)

It is time for Chris to win, he's been dubbed as a top 5 player, a first ballot hall of famer, ****** even saying he's the goat point guard for too long.

Just my opinion.

 

[wavycrocket]

I don't know what it is, I just don't see it in Chris Paul. I think he's good, but not great imo. I can just think of many players I would rather have at that position.

I don't know what it is, he doesn't really scare me like Steph, Russell, Kyrie, Kyle Lowry, Tony Parker, Rondo, etc.

Maybe it's the playoff record, idk. In my opinion, if you are the best point guard, you have to get past the second round at least once in your career.

Listen, how much does the media no matter where you look say how GREAT and the Clippers are, how they have great players to surround Paul all around, they practically suck them all the time. But when they lose, they go right to saying "Chris Paul has no help" "They can't conpare to other teams" Like what?? Lol

I'm not saying Chris has to win a championship. Or even win the conference finals. If you're the best, go out there and carry your team. He has a great team to do it, it's not like he doesn't have th help necessary to do so. He has the team , the talent, the coach, (Vinny Del Negro wasn't even that bad tbh)

It is time for Chris to win, he's been dubbed as a top 5 player, a first ballot hall of famer, ****** even saying he's the goat point guard for too long.

Just my opinion.

You gotta get past that "can't get out the 2nd round BS". That's media driven. That criticism was started b skip, the talking heads and blog writers. Before...you had players weren't good enough if they couldn't make the playoffs...then....can't get out the 1st round. Now for Chris Paul. It's...can't get out the 2nd round. All those PG's you mentioned haven't won s*** except Parker and rondo. Who had the absolute luxury of playing with the best players of all time and a great coach.

You gotta realize how trivial judging CP3 on not "getting past the 2nd rounds is. Jason Kidd didn't win a chip until he was old in Dallas and played in the east. They got to the finals and got worked every time. That's like when people were calling Dirk soft until 2011. Dirk didn't magically become tougher. The Matchups were more favorable and he was robbed of a chip by the refs and dwhistle.

Playoffs are all about Matchups...and CP3 hast had the favorable ones in his career. Name me a playoff series he was favored to win that he lost? Aside from Memphis in 2012. I'll wait.

So what if cp3 gets to the famed "Conference Finals" and gets swept by the spurs. Is that enough for you? Everyone just can't win in this league. And if something as trivial as advancing one more round and ultimately not winning is how you view a players greatness...then I honestly see you're evaluations as flat out flawed.

The goal is to win "Championships" right? I could care less if you won 2 or 3 more games in the playoffs and ultimately lost to the better TEAM.

 

[wavycrocket]

I remember dudes were saying Curry didn't deserve the extension because he had glass ankles. Boy were they wrong and Golden States management right. Best value contract in the league.

A good case could be made for some saying he didn't deserve the deal at the time.

Unfortunately for Steph...he blew up after he signed that deal. That was a very reasonable deal at the time.

Now it's the ultimate value deal now.

 

[airdeuces]

You gotta get past that "can't get out the 2nd round BS". That's media driven. That criticism was started b skip, the talking heads and blog writers. Before...you had players weren't good enough if they couldn't make the playoffs...then....can't get out the 1st round. Now for Chris Paul. It's...can't get out the 2nd round. All those PG's you mentioned haven't won s*** except Parker and rondo. Who had the absolute luxury of playing with the best players of all time and a great coach.

You gotta realize how trivial judging CP3 on not "getting past the 2nd rounds is. Jason Kidd didn't win a chip until he was old in Dallas and played in the east. They got to the finals and got worked every time. That's like when people were calling Dirk soft until 2011. Dirk didn't magically become tougher. The Matchups were more favorable and he was robbed of a chip by the refs and dwhistle.

Playoffs are all about Matchups...and CP3 hast had the favorable ones in his career. Name me a playoff series he was favored to win that he lost? Aside from Memphis in 2012. I'll wait.

So what if cp3 gets to the famed "Conference Finals" and gets swept by the spurs. Is that enough for you? Everyone just can't win in this league. And if something as trivial as advancing one more round and ultimately not winning is how you view a players greatness...then I honestly see you're evaluations as flat out flawed.

The goal is to win "Championships" right? I could care less if you won 2 or 3 more games in the playoffs and ultimately lost to the better TEAM.

k

 

[humpasaurus rex]

I remember dudes were saying Curry didn't deserve the extension because he had glass ankles. Boy were they wrong and Golden States management right. Best value contract in the league.

A good case could be made for some saying he didn't deserve the deal at the time.

Unfortunately for Steph...he blew up after he signed that deal. That was a very reasonable deal at the time.

Now it's the ultimate value deal now.

I agree at the time Steph sprained his ankle weekly. I'm glad he got through that. It's funny if you look at the other side of the spectrum at Rose who got max and is now what Curry was, injury prone.

 

[Deleted member 37467]

I don't know what it is, I just don't see it in Chris Paul. I think he's good, but not great imo. I can just think of many players I would rather have at that position.

I don't know what it is, he doesn't really scare me like Steph, Russell, Kyrie, Kyle Lowry, Tony Parker, Rondo, etc.

Maybe it's the playoff record, idk. In my opinion, if you are the best point guard, you have to get past the second round at least once in your career.

Listen, how much does the media no matter where you look say how GREAT and the Clippers are, how they have great players to surround Paul all around, they practically suck them all the time. But when they lose, they go right to saying "Chris Paul has no help" "They can't conpare to other teams" Like what?? Lol

I'm not saying Chris has to win a championship. Or even win the conference finals. If you're the best, go out there and carry your team. He has a great team to do it, it's not like he doesn't have th help necessary to do so. He has the team , the talent, the coach, (Vinny Del Negro wasn't even that bad tbh)

It is time for Chris to win, he's been dubbed as a top 5 player, a first ballot hall of famer, ****** even saying he's the goat point guard for too long.

Just my opinion.

You gotta get past that "can't get out the 2nd round BS". That's media driven. That criticism was started b skip, the talking heads and blog writers. Before...you had players weren't good enough if they couldn't make the playoffs...then....can't get out the 1st round. Now for Chris Paul. It's...can't get out the 2nd round. All those PG's you mentioned haven't won s*** except Parker and rondo. Who had the absolute luxury of playing with the best players of all time and a great coach.

You gotta realize how trivial judging CP3 on not "getting past the 2nd rounds is. Jason Kidd didn't win a chip until he was old in Dallas and played in the east. They got to the finals and got worked every time. That's like when people were calling Dirk soft until 2011. Dirk didn't magically become tougher. The Matchups were more favorable and he was robbed of a chip by the refs and dwhistle.

Playoffs are all about Matchups...and CP3 hast had the favorable ones in his career. Name me a playoff series he was favored to win that he lost? Aside from Memphis in 2012. I'll wait.

So what if cp3 gets to the famed "Conference Finals" and gets swept by the spurs. Is that enough for you? Everyone just can't win in this league. And if something as trivial as advancing one more round and ultimately not winning is how you view a players greatness...then I honestly see you're evaluations as flat out flawed.

The goal is to win "Championships" right? I could care less if you won 2 or 3 more games in the playoffs and ultimately lost to the better TEAM.

Yay, someone gets it.

Dude really said CP3 isn't great,

Mentions playoff record as the possible reason why but mentioned Kyrie the sentence before.

Goodnight, NT.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Just throwing this out there people earlier in the thread questioned if the old model of building a team; ie 3 superstars had "died" the reality is the game hasn't changed much in terms of what wins titles. The only teams since 1980 to have a player average more than 8 assists in the regular or postseason and win a title are Magic's Lakers and Isiah's Pistons. Granted they are 7 of the 34 but in my humble opinion what the Spurs have done the past decade and a half isn't some new hair brained scheme its the way basketball has always worked. 

I look at Chris Paul and while I have warmed up to the idea that he is a legit top 10 probably top 5 player in the NBA he just has the damn ball too much for the Clippers to win a title at this point. He isn't Magic with the overall floor game, and while Isiah is the best comparison for him overall he hasn't been that type of scorer the past 5 years post Meniscus surgery. 

Look at the top teams today:

The point is that from a team building aspect nothing has changed the outliers Magic and to an extent Isiah just messed up perception.
OK cool lets look at the outliers
Magic 1980 post season 
Had 4 other guys average 9+ points per game
legit finishers, and Nixon averaged almost 8 as well which means 2 primary shot creators
Magic in 1982 is the same thing
Magic in 1985 had 6 guys not named Earvin average double figures in the post season regular season was 5 with Cooper as the backup PG/ another finisher 
1987 same thing
1988 it was 5 

1989
Isiah it was 5 with Mahorn and Salley contributing 7+ and providing defensive presence 
Probably the real outlier as imo those guys got lucky

Either you have a transcendent scorer ala MJ or Shaq first title, you have 4 or 5 + guys scoring double figures or you have the 2 best players on the planet at the time in KOBE AND SHAQ. That's the last 33 years in a nutshell 
The Spurs aren't transcending basketball, The zone Defense, and strong side overload era hasn't changed anything but the mechanics. So when we go to evaluate teams think about that.
This brings me back to Paul and Rondo... You cannot have a 25%+ usage rate as a point guard  not be in tandom the 2 best players on the planet at the time and win titles. You can go back to the 50's and see that

This has been done to death you are confusing multiple factors.

1. The amount of players who are small enough to be play the "PG" position and have been as good as chris paul is tiny, players with a PER higher than 24 shorter than 6-3 it;'s like 5 guys in the entire history of the NBA, Paul, Westbrook, Curry, Tiny Archibald,Jerry West and randomly terrell brandon for one magical year.

The fact is there aren't that many super elite short players, the fact that 1/5 has one the chip is actually pretty good.

2. The pistons were an outlier?!!

they went to the finals 3 times, they won twice, they lost to the Lakers once on a completely bogus call, they lost a game 7 eastern conference finals on a miraculous play by bird, they were hair hair away from 4 chips.

3. This idea of guy who everaged 8 assists per game have't won the championed is classic correlation =/= causation.

The last 10 BPG leaders didn't win the chip, is rim protection not important.

The last like 20 PPG leaders didn't win the chip, is having great individual scorers bad?


You win chips with PLAYERS, not positions.

 

[buc em]

I don't blame him... He went from being the man his whole life to being a player on a loser team, and not a star. It's a tough transition.

He started playing basketball like 4 years ago bro......

He also isn't even playing yet, and when he does step out on that court he will be a star. Next year when he does play Philly will be LOADED with young talent, the most cap room in the league by an insane margin and finally off tank-mode.

 

[buc em]

Does anybody on here follow PJ Tucker on Instagram? Dude is probably a Niketalker with his shoe collection. Not only does he have every single sneaker you can possibly think of but he drives a Maybach, doesn't ever wear the same clothes twice, buys his kid matching Jordans that he has and when he drinks he only drinks Ace of Spades or other extremely expensive champagne he is gonna be so ******* broke after his career is over. Dude is living like he's making LeBron money.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

also the idea that you are warming up to the idea that Chris Paul is a top 10 players is also ridiculous. He's been no worse than top 4 for like 7 years.

I thought he would start majorly declining this year, but Blake Griffin is playing like dog ****, the Clippers entire wing rotation has single digit PER's, and he's still dragging Doc's cluster ****** roster to 8-5.

 

[Coupé It]

Owe, My Hammy.

 

[antidope]

I remember when I said Steph was a HoF player and people laughed

 

[wavycrocket]

also the idea that you are warming up to the idea that Chris Paul is a top 10 players is also ridiculous. He's been no worse than top 4 for like 7 years.

I thought he would start majorly declining this year, but Blake Griffin is playing like dog ****, the Clippers entire wing rotation has single digit PER's, and he's still dragging Doc's cluster ****** roster to 8-5.

Agree. He's averaging what 19ppg 10apg 5rpg & 2.5spg on 51% and 40% from 3?

Blake looks absolutely lazy on both ends of the floor so far. I expect him to pick it up. Those 16 boards he had the other day was - step in the right direction hopefully. His motor just isn't their.

 

[Deleted member 37467]

CP3 has avg more steals per game than TO's per the past 5 seasons,

 

[osh kosh bosh]

another thing: being great doesn't entitle you to a championship, and not winning doesn't mean you aren't great.


Lets take Anthony Davis the next great superstar for example.

David Robinson was putting up Anthony Davis numbers and couldn't win **** until Pop and Duncan got there.

Anthony Davis had a 20 per as a 19 year old big, Tracy Mcgrady had 18 PER as an 18 year old perimeter player. You know how difficult that is? He won diddly squat in orlando.

Dirk Nowiski's been dotting peoples eyes for a long time, won nothing untill Rick and elite defensive center Tyson Chandler appaered, it wasn't like he wasn't great before that.

Being great guarantees nothing.

 

[trueprada]

Derrick Rose Held Out of Second Half Due to Hamstring

 

[storm2006]

I don't blame him... He went from being the man his whole life to being a player on a loser team, and not a star. It's a tough transition.

He started playing basketball like 4 years ago bro......

He also isn't even playing yet, and when he does step out on that court he will be a star. Next year when he does play Philly will be LOADED with young talent, the most cap room in the league by an insane margin and finally off tank-mode.

Is he definitely sitting out this entire year?

 

[buc em]

More than likely. He'll probably be completely good to go by All-Star break but they might end up winning some games with him out there so that would defeat the purpose of this epic tank year. I'm surprised they signed Furkan Aldemir to a deal where he's coming over immediately...that might mess up the tank a lil too.