The GOAT: "I would not have called Larry and Magic and say let’s play together"

[vanillafreak13]

Originally Posted by AIR J XIII

Originally Posted by VanillaFreak13

Think about the fact that Jordan didn't win his first championship til his seventh season at 28! Even then he didn't have a mid range game.

Sure he had the hot game against Portland in the second series, but Jordan didn't have that mid-range jumper/turnaround until the second three peat.

So it wasn't blatant optimism to think that Lebron could have improved his game even beyond what we had seen.  

Im not sure how old you are, but you need to go and watch, or re-watch, those games from 87-93. Mike didnt have a mid-range game? That is absolutely ABSURD! If go and watch young Mike, an Kobe for that matter, sure they may not have often dominated offensively with jumpshots like they would later in their careers, but the development of a jumpshot game, pull-ups/turn arounds/fade aways, was CLEAR.

I have yet to see ANY sign of lebron developing any type of jumpshot game that he could dominate with. It seems like he rarely even shoots from inside of 3 and outside of 7-8 feet, and its not optimistic to think he should have a jumpshot by 25.

Remember when Kobe shot lights out and had 9 straight 40-point games in the 2003 season? 7th season, 24 years old.

Kobe tied Mike's record of 9 straight 40-point games that he did in 86-87, his 3rd season at 23 years old. He also had a different stretch of 3 straight 50-point games that year.

You dont have these stretches without a jumphot game.

Woah. First explain to me when did I diss Kobe in all this?

Yes Jordan had a mid range game. I didn't say it was non-existant. The difference in the jumpshot game between three peats is clearly visible.

 

[vanillafreak13]

Originally Posted by AIR J XIII

Originally Posted by VanillaFreak13

Think about the fact that Jordan didn't win his first championship til his seventh season at 28! Even then he didn't have a mid range game.

Sure he had the hot game against Portland in the second series, but Jordan didn't have that mid-range jumper/turnaround until the second three peat.

So it wasn't blatant optimism to think that Lebron could have improved his game even beyond what we had seen.  

Im not sure how old you are, but you need to go and watch, or re-watch, those games from 87-93. Mike didnt have a mid-range game? That is absolutely ABSURD! If go and watch young Mike, an Kobe for that matter, sure they may not have often dominated offensively with jumpshots like they would later in their careers, but the development of a jumpshot game, pull-ups/turn arounds/fade aways, was CLEAR.

I have yet to see ANY sign of lebron developing any type of jumpshot game that he could dominate with. It seems like he rarely even shoots from inside of 3 and outside of 7-8 feet, and its not optimistic to think he should have a jumpshot by 25.

Remember when Kobe shot lights out and had 9 straight 40-point games in the 2003 season? 7th season, 24 years old.

Kobe tied Mike's record of 9 straight 40-point games that he did in 86-87, his 3rd season at 23 years old. He also had a different stretch of 3 straight 50-point games that year.

You dont have these stretches without a jumphot game.

Woah. First explain to me when did I diss Kobe in all this?

Yes Jordan had a mid range game. I didn't say it was non-existant. The difference in the jumpshot game between three peats is clearly visible.

 

[th0mas cr0wn]

Originally Posted by finnns2003

Originally Posted by CarlofromdaPI

Originally Posted by DubA169

imagine if they really did pull some +*!+ like that back in the day. It really would not have been fair!

 

[th0mas cr0wn]

Originally Posted by finnns2003

Originally Posted by CarlofromdaPI

Originally Posted by DubA169

imagine if they really did pull some +*!+ like that back in the day. It really would not have been fair!

 

[vanillafreak13]

1984 NBA Draft
1. Akeem Olajuwon
2. Sam Bowie
3. Michael Jordan
4. Sam Perkins
5. Charles Barkley
16. John Stockton

2003 NBA Draft
1. Lebron James
2. Darko Milicic
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Chris Bosh
5. Dwayne Wade
6. Chris Kaman
7. Kirk Hinrich
8. T.J. Ford

I'll take the 84 squad of Akeem, Jordan and Chuck please.

I think that's a more fair comparison of the trio.

 

[vanillafreak13]

1984 NBA Draft
1. Akeem Olajuwon
2. Sam Bowie
3. Michael Jordan
4. Sam Perkins
5. Charles Barkley
16. John Stockton

2003 NBA Draft
1. Lebron James
2. Darko Milicic
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Chris Bosh
5. Dwayne Wade
6. Chris Kaman
7. Kirk Hinrich
8. T.J. Ford

I'll take the 84 squad of Akeem, Jordan and Chuck please.

I think that's a more fair comparison of the trio.

 

[spsfinest212]

Originally Posted by VanillaFreak13

1984 NBA Draft
1. Akeem Olajuwon
2. Sam Bowie
3. Michael Jordan
4. Sam Perkins
5. Charles Barkley
16. John Stockton

2003 NBA Draft
1. Lebron James
2. Darko Milicic
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Chris Bosh
5. Dwayne Wade
6. Chris Kaman
7. Kirk Hinrich
8. T.J. Ford

I'll take the 84 squad of Akeem, Jordan and Chuck please.

I think that's a more fair comparison of the trio.

Don't forget about Stockton

 

[spsfinest212]

Originally Posted by VanillaFreak13

1984 NBA Draft
1. Akeem Olajuwon
2. Sam Bowie
3. Michael Jordan
4. Sam Perkins
5. Charles Barkley
16. John Stockton

2003 NBA Draft
1. Lebron James
2. Darko Milicic
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Chris Bosh
5. Dwayne Wade
6. Chris Kaman
7. Kirk Hinrich
8. T.J. Ford

I'll take the 84 squad of Akeem, Jordan and Chuck please.

I think that's a more fair comparison of the trio.

Don't forget about Stockton

 

[ledafuture36]

At the end of the day LeBron in 5 years could repair his image, look at Kobe, but as long as he plays with Wade he can't be considered one of the elite players ever. He will be a HOFamer and a great player
but not top 5 of all time. 1 championship in Cleveland would've done more for his legacy then 3 championships in Miami. But then again who's to say what will happen in the next 5 years anyways.

I just think a lot of people really wanted to see him do it as the "man" cause he's good enough to do it but as of now we won't see that. I agree with Jordan and Magic 100% but at least I can say

I saw the closest thing to a "dream team" in the NBA. 

 

 

[ledafuture36]

At the end of the day LeBron in 5 years could repair his image, look at Kobe, but as long as he plays with Wade he can't be considered one of the elite players ever. He will be a HOFamer and a great player
but not top 5 of all time. 1 championship in Cleveland would've done more for his legacy then 3 championships in Miami. But then again who's to say what will happen in the next 5 years anyways.

I just think a lot of people really wanted to see him do it as the "man" cause he's good enough to do it but as of now we won't see that. I agree with Jordan and Magic 100% but at least I can say

I saw the closest thing to a "dream team" in the NBA. 

 

 

[benbeeach]

Originally Posted by spsfinest212

Originally Posted by VanillaFreak13

1984 NBA Draft
1. Akeem Olajuwon
2. Sam Bowie
3. Michael Jordan
4. Sam Perkins
5. Charles Barkley
16. John Stockton

2003 NBA Draft
1. Lebron James
2. Darko Milicic
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Chris Bosh
5. Dwayne Wade
6. Chris Kaman
7. Kirk Hinrich
8. T.J. Ford

I'll take the 84 squad of Akeem, Jordan and Chuck please.

I think that's a more fair comparison of the trio.

Don't forget about Stockton

NEVER forget about Stockton

 

[benbeeach]

Originally Posted by spsfinest212

Originally Posted by VanillaFreak13

1984 NBA Draft
1. Akeem Olajuwon
2. Sam Bowie
3. Michael Jordan
4. Sam Perkins
5. Charles Barkley
16. John Stockton

2003 NBA Draft
1. Lebron James
2. Darko Milicic
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Chris Bosh
5. Dwayne Wade
6. Chris Kaman
7. Kirk Hinrich
8. T.J. Ford

I'll take the 84 squad of Akeem, Jordan and Chuck please.

I think that's a more fair comparison of the trio.

Don't forget about Stockton

NEVER forget about Stockton

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by ledafuture36

At the end of the day LeBron in 5 years could repair his image, look at Kobe,

kobe ruined the sanctity of his own marriage... He didn't try to ruin the sanctity of the entire NBA




"He wants out," said the person, who has been briefed on Paul'sstrategy but spoke on condition of anonymity because he was notauthorized to discuss it publicly. "He wants to play with anothersuperstar. He wants to follow LeBron's model of teaming up with othergreat players."

Paul's list of preferred destinations consists of the Knicks, Magic and Lakers,and members of his inner circle already have sent word to the Hornetsof his desire to be traded to one of those teams, sources say. If Paulhas his way, he's played his last game in a Hornets jersey.

http://www.cbssports.com/...facing-crisis-with-paul/



good stuff lebron. way to make the league better. we gonna have players begging to be traded to stacked teams and planning years in advance to play with each other. it's either that or rot away with no chance of winning. 

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by ledafuture36

At the end of the day LeBron in 5 years could repair his image, look at Kobe,

kobe ruined the sanctity of his own marriage... He didn't try to ruin the sanctity of the entire NBA




"He wants out," said the person, who has been briefed on Paul'sstrategy but spoke on condition of anonymity because he was notauthorized to discuss it publicly. "He wants to play with anothersuperstar. He wants to follow LeBron's model of teaming up with othergreat players."

Paul's list of preferred destinations consists of the Knicks, Magic and Lakers,and members of his inner circle already have sent word to the Hornetsof his desire to be traded to one of those teams, sources say. If Paulhas his way, he's played his last game in a Hornets jersey.

http://www.cbssports.com/...facing-crisis-with-paul/



good stuff lebron. way to make the league better. we gonna have players begging to be traded to stacked teams and planning years in advance to play with each other. it's either that or rot away with no chance of winning. 

 

[lilpennymagicfan]

as much as I wanted lebron 2 stay and thought the decision show and all the extra +%$# was dumb and it hurt his image how is he wrong or even being critisized for this move??

so many of you on nt always said lebron will never win a ring, cleveland sucks, cleveland will never win, lebron needs 2 leave blah blah blah... bron had the opportunity to choose from 29 other teams and he chose the team that he felt had the best chance 2 win and showcase his full repitoire to the fullest.

does it really matter what mj magic or bird did or say? if lebron wants 2 be better than them he can't take the same path and follow their footsteps...

mj had pippen and rodman, bird had mchale and a hell of a cast, magic had kareem and other help, bron didn't have that and even tho part of the reason h didn't have a great player is cuz he didn't commit to a long term deal but now that all the people who said bron will never ring, know he is on path to win many rings easy or not are upset and throwing dumb opinions around/.....

 

[lilpennymagicfan]

as much as I wanted lebron 2 stay and thought the decision show and all the extra +%$# was dumb and it hurt his image how is he wrong or even being critisized for this move??

so many of you on nt always said lebron will never win a ring, cleveland sucks, cleveland will never win, lebron needs 2 leave blah blah blah... bron had the opportunity to choose from 29 other teams and he chose the team that he felt had the best chance 2 win and showcase his full repitoire to the fullest.

does it really matter what mj magic or bird did or say? if lebron wants 2 be better than them he can't take the same path and follow their footsteps...

mj had pippen and rodman, bird had mchale and a hell of a cast, magic had kareem and other help, bron didn't have that and even tho part of the reason h didn't have a great player is cuz he didn't commit to a long term deal but now that all the people who said bron will never ring, know he is on path to win many rings easy or not are upset and throwing dumb opinions around/.....

 

[MVP]

Yes CP3!! Bron may not be so bad after all

Come to LA

 

[MVP]

Yes CP3!! Bron may not be so bad after all

Come to LA

 

[mytoasterspeak]

I think most of the people who defend Bron or think it was a good decision, don't value greatness. The journey to become great is different from just being great. A man that strives to become great, who sacrifices to become great, who wills himself to greatness and values the steps it takes to become great is held in higher regard than the man who is just great. It's just like some guy who inherited a large fortune. Sure he will be celebrated and patted on the back for inheriting that fortune and being rich, but the opposite man who puts in the hours, the sacrifice, the fortitude, and will, will be held in higher regard than that other man.

LeBron stood on the doorstep of greatness, knocked on the door, the door swung open. LeBron looked inside and seen what the path to greatness would require, homie turned around and said, nah I just rather be great, greatNESS is too much work. It's that simple

 

[mytoasterspeak]

I think most of the people who defend Bron or think it was a good decision, don't value greatness. The journey to become great is different from just being great. A man that strives to become great, who sacrifices to become great, who wills himself to greatness and values the steps it takes to become great is held in higher regard than the man who is just great. It's just like some guy who inherited a large fortune. Sure he will be celebrated and patted on the back for inheriting that fortune and being rich, but the opposite man who puts in the hours, the sacrifice, the fortitude, and will, will be held in higher regard than that other man.

LeBron stood on the doorstep of greatness, knocked on the door, the door swung open. LeBron looked inside and seen what the path to greatness would require, homie turned around and said, nah I just rather be great, greatNESS is too much work. It's that simple

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by OneTrust

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

I think its naive to believe that other great NBA players would not have jumped ship had they been in the same position as LeBron. What LeBron did was fairly unprecedented in the NBA since he is a great player who left his team via free agency in his prime. The difference between LeBron and other greats of the past is that LeBron had the freedom to move while others like Jordan were tied to long term contracts and were unable to jump ship even if they wanted to. How can anyone state with absolute certainty that a player like Jordan would've stuck around with the Bulls for several more years of agony if he had the opportunity to leave the team? The circumstances surrounding past greats were much different. They either had no choice but to stay (because of long term contracts they signed) or they were already on good teams.

I think the closest example to LeBron's was when Kobe flirted with leaving the Lakers a few years ago. Although it was pretty clear that Kobe would stay, he still openly explored other options. He then signed a long term deal believing that the team would be competitive every single year throughout the contract. Had Kobe known that the Lakers would be a mediocre team for the first 3 years of that deal (3 years of his prime), would he have really stayed in L.A.? I dont think so. In fact, he got fed up after 3 years and asked to be traded however he was tied up due to the contract he signed. Now you look at LeBron, he was with the Cavs for 7 years and he was in his prime for probably 3 of those years. The Cavs became an elite team but they never got close to winning an NBA title. LeBron had the option of sticking around with the Cavs and being surrounded by mediocre players, a team with limited cap flexibility, and the probability they would not compete for a title for another couple of years OR join a team where he can legitimately compete for titles immediately. It was a no brainer and I have a hard time believing that other greats would've passed up on the opportunity to do what LeBron did.

I understand people being upset at LeBron joining another great player in Wade and one of the best big men in the league in Bosh in order to 'take the easy way out', but I think its naive to think that other great players would not have done the same thing if given the chance. Magic and Bird had help. Jordan had help. Kobe had help. Duncan had help. Wade had help. Now compare the supporting casts of those players to the supporting cast that LeBron had with the Cavs. His best teammates in his 7-years with the Cavs were Mo Williams and an aging Antawn Jamison.

It's clear that some people are using convenient arguments to bash LeBron. The main criticism of LeBron is that he does not have any rings. Now that he's joined the Heat he is a ring chaser. Had he gone to NY or Chicago he would've been criticized for chasing money. Had he stayed in Cleveland he would've been criticized even more if the Cavs went another few years without winning a title. He was in a lose - lose - lose situation from a PR standpoint but he made the best on-court decision; a decision other players in the past would've made had they had free agent flexibility like LeBron.

Exactly!...And that's the TRUTH, RUTH!

  

Yep. What I've been saying for the longest now.

And I'm loving how nobody has dared challenge the accusation that Barkley jumped to the Rockets to ring-chase with Dream and Drex...

Nor has anyone admitted that they would have happily remained in Cleveland if they were in LBJ's shoes.

Y'all some funny dudes. "Oh it would have been ok if he went to the Knicks or the Bulls cuz it would have been a challenge".

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by OneTrust

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

I think its naive to believe that other great NBA players would not have jumped ship had they been in the same position as LeBron. What LeBron did was fairly unprecedented in the NBA since he is a great player who left his team via free agency in his prime. The difference between LeBron and other greats of the past is that LeBron had the freedom to move while others like Jordan were tied to long term contracts and were unable to jump ship even if they wanted to. How can anyone state with absolute certainty that a player like Jordan would've stuck around with the Bulls for several more years of agony if he had the opportunity to leave the team? The circumstances surrounding past greats were much different. They either had no choice but to stay (because of long term contracts they signed) or they were already on good teams.

I think the closest example to LeBron's was when Kobe flirted with leaving the Lakers a few years ago. Although it was pretty clear that Kobe would stay, he still openly explored other options. He then signed a long term deal believing that the team would be competitive every single year throughout the contract. Had Kobe known that the Lakers would be a mediocre team for the first 3 years of that deal (3 years of his prime), would he have really stayed in L.A.? I dont think so. In fact, he got fed up after 3 years and asked to be traded however he was tied up due to the contract he signed. Now you look at LeBron, he was with the Cavs for 7 years and he was in his prime for probably 3 of those years. The Cavs became an elite team but they never got close to winning an NBA title. LeBron had the option of sticking around with the Cavs and being surrounded by mediocre players, a team with limited cap flexibility, and the probability they would not compete for a title for another couple of years OR join a team where he can legitimately compete for titles immediately. It was a no brainer and I have a hard time believing that other greats would've passed up on the opportunity to do what LeBron did.

I understand people being upset at LeBron joining another great player in Wade and one of the best big men in the league in Bosh in order to 'take the easy way out', but I think its naive to think that other great players would not have done the same thing if given the chance. Magic and Bird had help. Jordan had help. Kobe had help. Duncan had help. Wade had help. Now compare the supporting casts of those players to the supporting cast that LeBron had with the Cavs. His best teammates in his 7-years with the Cavs were Mo Williams and an aging Antawn Jamison.

It's clear that some people are using convenient arguments to bash LeBron. The main criticism of LeBron is that he does not have any rings. Now that he's joined the Heat he is a ring chaser. Had he gone to NY or Chicago he would've been criticized for chasing money. Had he stayed in Cleveland he would've been criticized even more if the Cavs went another few years without winning a title. He was in a lose - lose - lose situation from a PR standpoint but he made the best on-court decision; a decision other players in the past would've made had they had free agent flexibility like LeBron.

Exactly!...And that's the TRUTH, RUTH!

  

Yep. What I've been saying for the longest now.

And I'm loving how nobody has dared challenge the accusation that Barkley jumped to the Rockets to ring-chase with Dream and Drex...

Nor has anyone admitted that they would have happily remained in Cleveland if they were in LBJ's shoes.

Y'all some funny dudes. "Oh it would have been ok if he went to the Knicks or the Bulls cuz it would have been a challenge".

 

[Animal Thug]

Originally Posted by mYToAsterspeak

I think most of the people who defend Bron or think it was a good decision, don't value greatness. The journey to become great is different from just being great. A man that strives to become great, who sacrifices to become great, who wills himself to greatness and values the steps it takes to become great is held in higher regard than the man who is just great. It's just like some guy who inherited a large fortune. Sure he will be celebrated and patted on the back for inheriting that fortune and being rich, but the opposite man who puts in the hours, the sacrifice, the fortitude, and will, will be held in higher regard than that other man.

LeBron stood on the doorstep of greatness, knocked on the door, the door swung open. LeBron looked inside and seen what the path to greatness would require, homie turned around and said, nah I just rather be great, greatNESS is too much work. It's that simple

  

 

[Animal Thug]

Originally Posted by mYToAsterspeak

I think most of the people who defend Bron or think it was a good decision, don't value greatness. The journey to become great is different from just being great. A man that strives to become great, who sacrifices to become great, who wills himself to greatness and values the steps it takes to become great is held in higher regard than the man who is just great. It's just like some guy who inherited a large fortune. Sure he will be celebrated and patted on the back for inheriting that fortune and being rich, but the opposite man who puts in the hours, the sacrifice, the fortitude, and will, will be held in higher regard than that other man.

LeBron stood on the doorstep of greatness, knocked on the door, the door swung open. LeBron looked inside and seen what the path to greatness would require, homie turned around and said, nah I just rather be great, greatNESS is too much work. It's that simple

  

 

[duba169]

SHUGES wrote:



Y'all some funny dudes. "Oh it would have been ok if he went to the Knicks or the Bulls cuz it would have been a challenge".

you really think people would be calling him a gutless, ring chasing, coward of he went to either team?

the worst he would hear is he's all about the money and not about winning. But when he wins 66 games the next year that criticism can't be used anymore. he can win the next 3 chips straight and the criticism of going to MIA in wade's house with another star still lingers. he can't scrub that one away unless he wins one as the "the man" later in his career.