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i swear every sox fan i know doesnt give Wang credit for being a top line starter. they say he is a product of their offense and thats how he got 19 wins
The Major League Baseball Off-Season Post Vol. 24 days until Opening Day 2009
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by wildkycat,
- Start date
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When did I ever say Wang is not good though he is a very solid # 2 pitcher (not a # 1 ace/stopper)...the very first sentence is that the Yankees 1-2 is verysolid. Neither Wang or CC though have done anything in the post season yet. While I dislike what the Yankees are all about, I don't let that cloud myjudgment when it comes to discussing players or acquisitions....same way I said CC was a good signing (desperate but a good signing), but AJ was a horriblesigning.
To say the Yankees have a better staff than the Red Sox is ridiculous, they had a better staff without Penny with all that proven commodity, that just givesthem more depth. I watch a LOT of teams play, not just the Yanks/Mets.
As for the Doyers.....wow if they sign Dunn dude is the worst situational middle of the lineup hitter I've ever seen. Who the hell is going to sign Mannyif the Dodgers don't? Dude is going to fall right into the Mets lap for a 1-2 year contract.
To say the Yankees have a better staff than the Red Sox is ridiculous, they had a better staff without Penny with all that proven commodity, that just givesthem more depth. I watch a LOT of teams play, not just the Yanks/Mets.
As for the Doyers.....wow if they sign Dunn dude is the worst situational middle of the lineup hitter I've ever seen. Who the hell is going to sign Mannyif the Dodgers don't? Dude is going to fall right into the Mets lap for a 1-2 year contract.
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Me too.
We need to do something similar.
same here.
i'd like to see us get Rocco Baldelli in some sort of low-risk fashion.
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[h1]Tribe could rebound in a big way in '09[/h1]
By Tim Kurkjian
ESPN The Magazine
One of the stories that got somewhat lost in the 2008 season was the strong finish of the Cleveland Indians. The Indians went 44-28 after July 9, the second-best record in the American League during that stretch. They finished with 81 wins -- one fewer than the Diamondbacks -- and finished seven games out of first place in the American League Central, closer than the Yankees or Brewers finished in their divisions.
Granted, a terrible May and June effectively ended the season early for the Indians, who had come within one victory of the World Series in 2007. And, yes, it can be misleading to judge a team that got hot when the games didn't mean as much. "But it was very important for our organization," said Indians general manager Mark Shapiro. "The players knew they were capable of winning even without a great pitcher and great team leader like CC [Sabathia]. It gave credibility for our fan base. The second half was meaningful for our club."
The winter has also been meaningful. The Indians had to upgrade their bullpen after it posted a 5.13 ERA in 2008, second worst in the major leagues -- better only than the 5.15 ERA posted by the Rangers' pen. And Cleveland did upgrade its bullpen by signing free-agent closer Kerry Wood to a two-year, $20.5 million deal.
"He transcends our prior experiences at closer since I've been here," Shapiro said. "We've had capable guys at the end of games, but they got by on toughness, and playing the odds. Now we have a strikeout guy, with a fear factor. And we have support for him."
The Indians also acquired reliever Joe Smith, a sidearmer against whom right-handed hitters batted .192 last season, from the Mets. He joins Rafael Perez (one of the top eighth-inning pitchers in the game), Jensen Lewis (13-for-13 in save opportunities in '0and Rafael Betancourt, who went from being a premier set-up guy in 2007 to wildly ineffective in 2008. The Indians have yet another option after the emergence of one of their top pitching prospects, right-hander Adam Miller, in winter ball and the instructional league.
"I saw him in the Dominican," one scout said of Miller. "He threw 97 [mph] with a great slider. They could use him at the end of the game."
The beginning of the game -- the starting rotation -- "is not where I want it to be," Shapiro said. He has 2008 Cy Young winner Cliff Lee at the top, followed by Fausto Carmona, whose victory total dropped from 19 in 2007 to eight in 2008, and his ERA ballooned from 3.06 in '07 to 5.45 in '08. But, according to Shapiro, Carmona is healthy and has fixed some of his mechanical flaws while pitching in winter ball in the Dominican Republic.
That leaves the rest of the rotation to be formed by some combination of Anthony Reyes ("he exceeded expectations after we got him from St. Louis," said Shapiro), Aaron Laffey, Zach Jackson, Scott Lewis, David Huff and Jeremy Sowers. Plus, Jake Westbrook is expected to be healthy and back in the major leagues by mid-July.
"We will have to mix and match there," Shapiro said of the Indians' rotation.
The Indians spent last season mixing and matching their lineup, given significant injuries to DH Travis Hafner and catcher/first baseman Victor Martinez. But even with those two driving in a total of only 59 runs, the Indians scored 805 runs -- seventh most in the major leagues.
Shapiro said Martinez and Hafner are healthy and ready to go, which creates an issue when it comes to playing time at first base and behind the plate. With Martinez hurt, Kelly Shoppach got a chance to catch every day, and responded by hitting 21 homers and slugging .517 in 352 at-bats.
"He has earned every opportunity to play more," said Shapiro of Shoppach.
So, manager Eric Wedge will mix and match behind the plate and at first base with Martinez, Shoppach and Ryan Garko, who, after a slow start, finished the season with 90 RBIs.
"With Vic and Haf," said Shapiro, "we hope to return to the elite level of run production."
The rest of the infield isn't clear. The Indians missed out on signing free-agent third baseman Casey Blake, who signed a three-year deal with the Dodgers instead. So, for now, shortstop Jhonny Peralta will play third, where he played almost exclusively in winter ball in the Dominican Republic. Asdrubal Cabrera will move from second base to shortstop, and second base will be handled by some combination of Josh Barfield, Jamey Carroll and rookie Luis Valbuena.
There is still a lot of work to do, "but the winter isn't over yet," Shapiro said. The Indians are looking for another starting pitcher to follow Lee and Carmona. They are looking for the best infielder available, be it a third baseman, shortstop or second baseman -- and who they acquire will determine where Peralta and Cabrera play. Count on the Indians signing or trading for someone else, but it won't be a major move because they don't have very much more money to spend.
They spent most of their money on Wood. But if he can be the healthy closer he was in Chicago all last year (the last pitch he threw was clocked at 97 mph), Carmona has a bounce-back season, they find another infielder and another starting pitcher, corner outfielders Ben Francisco and Shin-Soo Choo continue to progress and Martinez and Hafner produce like they're supposed to, that hot finish by the Indians last season could be followed by a hot start in 2009.
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I'm going to have to disagree,
Yankess 1-2 is very solid but CC hasn't done anything in the playoffs as of yet in his career, Wang has been getting some VERY SERIOUS injuries the past few seasons and missing a ton of time, Burnett is an overpaid average pitcher who is also injury prone, and Joba is not even proven and belongs in the pen (he labored as a starter and got hurt). Petitte aiin't even signed yet is he? Dude already has elbow issues and isn't the same pitcher.
How you would choose that staff over Beckett (when healthy), Lester, Dice-K, Penny as the 4th and Wakefield as the 5th. That is a very experienced staff that has won championships....I don't think penny's work ethic would be in question being with a new team that WILL contend.
The Rays even have a better staff than the Yankess, overall.
Wang had a freak injury running the bases last season. He hasnt missed a ton of time. Are you just making that up?
Beckett (when healthy) had one really good season that people seem to over exaggerate. Yes he was very good in 07 but came back down to earth this year and wasinjured with elbow problems down the stretch. How is he not an injury concern but Wang is?
Also looking at there numbers Burnett is very similar to Beckett when healthy. Over the last 3 years Beckett walks fewer guys but Burnett strikes out more guysand gives up less home runs. Beckett did pitch 50 more innings though. Beckett is a better pitcher but not by as much as every one seems to think. Actuallylooking at Becketts numbers his 07 looks really out of context when compared to the rest of his career.
Wakefield is terrible and 42. He too was injured last year.
Lester was awesome last year but his innings jumped by almost 150 from the previous season. Most teams worry about a jump around 40 so 150 would concern me.Although I doubt the Red Sox would put his health in jeopardy they are one of the smarter franchises in baseball. He also might be a special case because ofthe cancer and what he went through.
There is no way Matsuzaka pitches to a 2.9 era again if he walks almost 100 and strikes out 150. He was extremely lucky last year and next season I wouldexpect 07 Matsuzaka instead of his 08 numbers.
Both teams have question marks but Becketts arm trouble would have me say there about even as a staff. The team that has the healthiest rotation wins thedivision this year. And both are better than the Rays
Oh a championships is plural meaning they have won more that one World Series as a group. They haven't.They have won only one. How could any believe you when you say your not biased against the Yankees?
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I couldn't take our rotation becuase like Mez said. Wang and CC haven't done +%#+ in the post season.
And I am not sold on Wang as a number 1. Remember how hot he started last year....then he could barely win a game before he got hurt.
And I am not sold on Wang as a number 1. Remember how hot he started last year....then he could barely win a game before he got hurt.
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He won his starts before he got hurt and seemed to be getting back on track. Like I said are rotations are about even although I think we have a slight edge(assuming Pettitte is signed) And Wang has had one bad series in the postseason and pitched good in his two other games. 6.2 in both giving up 3 and 1 runsrespectively. The Cleveland series was bad but he did pitch on three days rest for the first time in his second start.
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pretty much...but he can definitely help teams.
you gotta take the good, sometimes great, with the bad...sometimes horrible.
he has one of the most unique set of statistical data of any player i've ever seen.
if you just look at some of his #'s individually, you're like..
"wow, this guy would make a great lead-off hitter"
"wow, this guy would make a great clean-up hitter"
"wow, this guy would make a great DH"
"wow, this guy %!$%*%! stinks out loud."
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Dunn is a bad situational hitter?
like I said before.
He is Adam Dunn when the bases are emptyand Adam Dunn+ with runners on. 1/2 of his home runs came with runners in scoring position. So this whole Dunn is a bad situational hitter seems like@$$*%*+*. Y'all only remember the strikes outs.
A-Rod
David Wright.
| G | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | K | SB | CS | AVG | OBP | SLG | OPS | |||
| RISP | 123 | 133 | 43 | 32 | 3 | 0 | 11 | 65 | 39 | 45 | 1 | 0 | .241 | .418 | .511 | .929 | ||
| RISP w/2 Outs | 74 | 53 | 19 | 11 | 1 | 0 | 7 | 26 | 22 | 19 | 0 | 0 | .208 | .468 | .623 | 1.091 | ||
| Bases Loaded | 26 | 16 | 11 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 16 | 3 | 5 | 0 | 0 | .375 | .500 | .750 | 1.250 | ||
A-Rod
| G | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | K | SB | CS | AVG | OBP | SLG | OPS | |||
| Bases Empty | 138 | 243 | 23 | 80 | 16 | 0 | 23 | 23 | 25 | 49 | 0 | 0 | .329 | .401 | .679 | 1.080 | ||
| Runners On | 137 | 267 | 81 | 74 | 17 | 0 | 12 | 80 | 40 | 68 | 18 | 3 | .277 | .385 | .476 | .861 | ||
| RISP | 124 | 166 | 72 | 45 | 7 | 0 | 8 | 67 | 32 | 47 | 3 | 2 | .271 | .406 | .458 | .863 | ||
| RISP w/2 Outs | 87 | 72 | 32 | 19 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 23 | 20 | 20 | 3 | 0 | .264 | .442 | .431 | .873 | ||
| Bases Loaded | 27 | 14 | 16 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 11 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 0 | .286 | .333 | .500 | .833 |
David Wright.
| RISP | 139 | 189 | 75 | 46 | 11 | 1 | 4 | 78 | 27 | 36 | 2 | 1 | .243 | .328 | .376 | .703 | ||
| RISP w/2 Outs | 85 | 77 | 27 | 19 | 5 | 1 | 2 | 32 | 15 | 12 | 0 | 0 | .247 | .376 | .416 | .792 | ||
| Bases Loaded | 34 | 17 | 17 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 13 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 0 | .235 | .364 | .353 | .717 |
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but at the same time...i think he led the league (one of the past couple seasons) in walk-off homers or rbi's...so...
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As for the Doyers.....wow if they sign Dunn dude is the worst situational middle of the lineup hitter I've ever seen. Who the hell is going to sign Manny if the Dodgers don't? Dude is going to fall right into the Mets lap for a 1-2 year contract.
Manny wants a three year deal. Don't see him passing up the Dodgers offer to take a 1-2 year deal to play for the Mets. Plus, this is just a negotiatingploy, fight fire with fire.
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Brandon Phillips
These are 2007 stats.
All those guys were WORSE than Adam Dunn last year in situational hitting.
| Runners On | 154 | 306 | 88 | 85 | 12 | 4 | 11 | 75 | 18 | 56 | 32 | 8 | .278 | .325 | .451 | .776 | ||
| RISP | 132 | 160 | 72 | 43 | 5 | 1 | 6 | 61 | 13 | 33 | 10 | 2 | .269 | .330 | .425 | .755 | ||
| RISP w/2 Outs | 81 | 77 | 37 | 21 | 3 | 1 | 3 | 27 | 6 | 18 | 7 | 0 | .273 | .341 | .455 | .796 |
All those guys were WORSE than Adam Dunn last year in situational hitting.
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David Wright had an off year clutch wise but he is known for being a clutch player (yet still put up career highs)....his situational hitting wasn't thatgreat last season so I don't see what you're trying to prove there? That Dunn is a better situational hitter than Wright? yeah ok....dude gets sacfly's a lot with Reyes on base, something Dunn doesn't even WANT TO DO.
Bases loaded are the easiest hits to get because you can sit dead red, Dunn would've been signed in a heart beat if he was that "nice", why doyou think he is one of the last hitters being signed this off season?
Bases loaded are the easiest hits to get because you can sit dead red, Dunn would've been signed in a heart beat if he was that "nice", why doyou think he is one of the last hitters being signed this off season?
Then there's Adam Dunn, who has 15 sacrifice flies in his career, two more than Lee has this year. In 2004-05, Dunn went 1,085 plate appearances without a sacrifice fly. He had 65 chances -- runner at third base, less than two outs -- before he finally broke his streak with a fly ball to left field. The crowd at Great American Ballpark cheered him. Dunn raised his arms in triumph.
...
Dunn (102 RBIs, zero sacrifice flies for the 2004 Reds) and Nick Esasky (108 RBIs, zero sacrifice flies for the 1989 Red Sox) are the only other players since 1953 to drive in 100 runs in a season without hitting a sacrifice fly
Exactly, that is what situational hitting means, its not JUST average with RISP. Dunn would rather try to hit a HR with men on bases than get a sac fly with arunner on 3rd or move guys over if the situation presents itself, plsu he is horrible defensively. You can't just post stats to prove one part of yourargument, you should know better since you def rely on stats a lot as opposed to using your own eyes.
but at the same time...i think he led the league (one of the past couple seasons) in walk-off homers or rbi's...so.
Pretty much, you take the good with the bad, he probably could have ended games earlier if he were a better situational hitter.
Oh a championships is plural meaning they have won more that one World Series as a group. They haven't. They have won only one. How could any believe you when you say your not biased against the Yankees?
Besides CC and Wang (who haven't done anything in the post season, and I like CC a lot) the rest of the rotation is average at best EVEN WITH Andy becausedude is not the same and has elbow issues. Plus if Andy is there Joba is going back to the pen and Hughes will probably be the 5th anyways.
Red Sox starters are proven pitchers, AND PROVEN IN THE PLAYOFFS! A healthy Beckett in the playoffs (unlike last year) is better than anything the Yankees orany team can throw at them he is that damn good, and Lester has the capabilities to out pitch anyone in a big spot. They have that IT factor and experience, something CC or Wang have yet to show come playoff time, so please spare me the Yankee hater argument,why should I even like Boston at all they are the same kind of team as the Yankees nowadays?
You also said Robinson Cano is the best 2nd baseman in baseball and still believe so with a straight face despite the obvious terrible work ethic and lazinesson the field once he got that contract (aka better defensive range than Brandon Phillips), so I won't even bother.
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C'mon Mez, it is the off season, you got to let Yankee fans yap yap yap. They have the best everything, in fact they have had it for the past 8 years, yetthey haven't raised the World Series trophy in that time frame.
As far as the Yankees having the best rotation,
. I would say that theYankees have the best compensated rotation.
People hate to say it, but Beckett is better than CC, in the playoffs and the regular season.
Lester is better than Wang. I would also take Dice-K over Burnett.
The rest of the Yankee rotation isn't worth talking about. Andy Pettitte hasn't been locked up yet. Joba might (should) be headed to the Pen. PhilHughes and Ian Kennedy are overhyped.
As far as the Yankees having the best rotation,
People hate to say it, but Beckett is better than CC, in the playoffs and the regular season.
Lester is better than Wang. I would also take Dice-K over Burnett.
The rest of the Yankee rotation isn't worth talking about. Andy Pettitte hasn't been locked up yet. Joba might (should) be headed to the Pen. PhilHughes and Ian Kennedy are overhyped.
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if the Florida ever THOUGHT about this trade for a sec MLB should have folded the team
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that's what i'm saying. Dunn rarely has productive outs...only moves runners when he draws a walk...but then again, he may just as easilyhit a 3-run bomb.
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Hence why the Marlins are a joke of an organization. Teams like FLA, Kansas City (rich owner), San Diego (cutting payroll cause of a divorce when Petco paysthem a ton of $$$) collect money from teams like the Yankees and don't spend anything on the product they provide, which is far, far, far worse than theYankees OVER-SPENDING to get the best players. I was shocked when they even gave Hanley an extension, giving up on Cabrera was a joke though even though theygot some young players in return, which will probably be traded if they become great players in their contract year.
How can you even be a fan of a team that once in a while contends, and then has a fire sale the next off-season? Must be hard being a fan of a player on yourfavorite team knowing he's leaving cause of ownership.
How can you even be a fan of a team that once in a while contends, and then has a fire sale the next off-season? Must be hard being a fan of a player on yourfavorite team knowing he's leaving cause of ownership.
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Originally Posted by Mez 0ne
David Wright had an off year clutch wise but he is known for being a clutch player (yet still put up career highs)....his situational hitting wasn't that great last season so I don't see what you're trying to prove there? That Dunn is a better situational hitter than Wright? yeah ok....dude gets sac fly's a lot with Reyes on base, something Dunn doesn't even WANT TO DO.
Bases loaded are the easiest hits to get because you can sit dead red, Dunn would've been signed in a heart beat if he was that "nice", why do you think he is one of the last hitters being signed this off season?
Exactly, that is what situational hitting means, its not JUST average with RISP. Dunn would rather try to hit a HR with men on bases than get a sac fly with a runner on 3rd or move guys over if the situation presents itself, plsu he is horrible defensively. You can't just post stats to prove one part of your argument, you should know better since you def rely on stats a lot as opposed to using your own eyes.
but at the same time...i think he led the league (one of the past couple seasons) in walk-off homers or rbi's...so.
Pretty much, you take the good with the bad, he probably could have ended games earlier if he were a better situational hitter.
Oh a championships is plural meaning they have won more that one World Series as a group. They haven't. They have won only one. How could any believe you when you say your not biased against the Yankees?
Besides CC and Wang (who haven't done anything in the post season, and I like CC a lot) the rest of the rotation is average at best EVEN WITH Andy because dude is not the same and has elbow issues. Plus if Andy is there Joba is going back to the pen and Hughes will probably be the 5th anyways.
Red Sox starters are proven pitchers, AND PROVEN IN THE PLAYOFFS! A healthy Beckett in the playoffs (unlike last year) is better than anything the Yankees or any team can throw at them he is that damn good, and Lester has the capabilities to out pitch anyone in a big spot. They have that IT factor and experience, something CC or Wang have yet to show come playoff time, so please spare me the Yankee hater argument, why should I even like Boston at all they are the same kind of team as the Yankees nowadays?
You also said Robinson Cano is the best 2nd baseman in baseball and still believe so with a straight face despite the obvious terrible work ethic and laziness on the field once he got that contract (aka better defensive range than Brandon Phillips), so I won't even bother.
I like how you ignored the fact that you made up Wang's injury history
A rotation isnt based solely on playoff pitching you do realize that? They have to get through the entire season before they can think about the playoffs. JeffWeaver and Jeff Suppan looked real good in the 06 playoff run, should we sign them to make our rotation better?
Based on what criteria can Lester outpitch anyone? CC cant? Wang cant? Joba cant?
Without Beckett and Lester how is the Red Sox rotation of Matsuzaka, Penny and Wakefield? Average at best correct. In fact if you take a teams top two startersout of there rotation like you did with the Yankees how many of them arent average?
And no Joba doesnt go back to the pen if Andy is resigned. He stays in the roatation. Its been said countless time by the Yankees.
And I said Cano was the best second basemen in the AL. Obviously Pedroia just won an MVP which makes my statement look pretty dumb right now. But I believeCano will have a bounce back year. If you compare both of there first two seasons there very similar. Whats to say Pedroia wont have a down year like Cano justdid?
How do you know what Cano's work ethic is like? Are you out there in the weight room and takng BP with him? How do you know he's "lazy" inthe field? Do you time him out of the box? Or did you just read about this on ESPN or in the news paper?
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Based on what criteria can Lester outpitch anyone? CC cant? Wang cant? Joba cant?
CC or Wang have yet to do so in a playoff game, Joba is also unproven commodity he labored last year, he would make the team much stronger in the pen asopposed to being a starter...I'm sure many Yankee fans wouild agree with me on that. Joba in the pen makes games 7 innings long for the rest of thestarters.
I like how you ignored the fact that you made up Wang's injury history
I didn't ignore it I was just shocked by a lot of other things you wrote, I meant to say he got hurt last year for a significant amount of time not thepast 2 seasons.
Without Beckett and Lester how is the Red Sox rotation of Matsuzaka, Penny and Wakefield?
Dice-K is an average pitcher now? Sure he may walk hitters here and there but the guy has already established himself in this league, the Red Sox have a veryvery strong 1-3 with a solid 4-5 regardless of how poorly Penny may have been last season, he was hurt due to his bad work ethic. As I said before......I wouldbe shocked if Penny has work ethic issues being on the Red Sox around all of those veterans unlike that young team in L.A.. Wakefield is old but as a # 5 hegets the job done, he has pitched over 180 innings 5 out of the past 6 seasons so he is an innings eater as well.
How do you know he's "lazy" in the field? Do you time him out of the box? Or did you just read about this on ESPN or in the news paper?
Stop being a denial you've watched more Yankee games than I have (and I watch my share being in NYC because I love baseball), how many times did he justlazily let ground balls go right by him when dude easily had a play on it? I can't even remember the last time he dove for a ball.
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Peralta at 3b,finally.
Hopefully Barfield gets a clue. I pull for him.
Get a corner bat and a veteran starter, damn it.
Hopefully Barfield gets a clue. I pull for him.
Get a corner bat and a veteran starter, damn it.
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What are you talking about?
He was 8-2 in 15 starts!
He did have one little stretch where he did not so hot... but right before he got hurt he had... 2 starts... 12 1/3 IP, 1 ER.... 2 wins
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5 games of 5+ earned runs. in those 15.
that leaves a little to be desired from a front line guy.
He's a good #2 tho.
that leaves a little to be desired from a front line guy.
He's a good #2 tho.
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1. Joba isn't worth talking about?
| Overall | ERA | W | L | SV | SVO | G | GS | CG | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | AVG |
| As Starter | 2.76 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 12 | 12 | 0 | 65.1 | 60 | 23 | 20 | 4 | 25 | 74 | .245 |
2. Lester is not better then Wang.
3. Beckett is not better then CC.... maybe in the playoffs but not in the regular season that's for sure.
Beckett....
| SEASON | TEAM | G | GS | CG | SHO | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | W | L | SV | HLD | BLSV | ERA |
| 2006 | Bos | 33 | 33 | 0 | 0 | 204.2 | 191 | 120 | 114 | 36 | 74 | 158 | 16 | 11 | 0 | 0 | -- | 5.01 |
| 2007 | Bos | 30 | 30 | 1 | 0 | 200.2 | 189 | 76 | 73 | 17 | 40 | 194 | 20 | 7 | 0 | 0 | -- | 3.27 |
| 2008 | Bos | 27 | 27 | 1 | 0 | 174.1 | 173 | 80 | 78 | 18 | 34 | 172 | 12 | 10 | 0 | 0 | -- | 4.03 |
| SEASON | TEAM | G | GS | CG | SHO | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | W | L | SV | HLD | BLSV | ERA |
| 2006 | Cle | 28 | 28 | 6 | 2 | 192.2 | 182 | 83 | 69 | 17 | 44 | 172 | 12 | 11 | 0 | 0 | -- | 3.22 |
| 2007 | Cle | 34 | 34 | 4 | 1 | 241.0 | 238 | 94 | 86 | 20 | 37 | 209 | 19 | 7 | 0 | 0 | -- | 3.21 |
| 2008 | Cle | 18 | 18 | 3 | 2 | 122.1 | 117 | 54 | 52 | 13 | 34 | 123 | 6 | 8 | 0 | 0 | -- | 3.83 |
| 2008 | Mil | 17 | 17 | 7 | 3 | 130.2 | 106 | 31 | 24 | 6 | 25 | 128 | 11 | 2 | 0 | 0 | -- | 1.65 |
| 2008 | -- | 35 | 35 | 10 | 5 | 253.0 | 223 | 85 | 76 | 19 | 59 | 251 | 17 | 10 | 0 | 0 | -- | 2.70 |
Maybe so but he had a track record of 38-13 in the 2 previous seasons with a good ERA and had 2 strong starts before gettinginjured... he was getting back on track.
Anytime you go 46-15 in 3 years in the AL East.... you're nasty.
And no one said he's a #1..... there is a reason we got a #1, CC Sabathia.
a 1/2 punch of CC/Wang is
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Get a corner bat and a veteran starter, damn it.
It doesn't seem like we're going to get a power-hitting corner outfielder.
