The Official Anime & Manga Thread Vol: 三
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I agree that other characters don't have as much shine as Deku, but I would argue that that is because Deku's improvement is the most dynamic out of all of his classmates - he is the only student who has been capable of step-function changes in power / ability given the nature of his quirk i.e. the progression from receiving OfA and defaulting to using 100% on specific body parts due to poor training, then development of full cowl / shoot style, onto the revelation that he can use different body parts at different strength levels. His evolution up to this point has been the fastest and most impactful since, unlike his classmates, he has been able to drive his most powerful improvements by changing how he thinks about his quirk, not through sheer repetition and practice. Given his extremely rapid growth due to this dynamic, I think it made a ton of sense to prioritize the focus on his character development over others....up to this point. Now that he's able to effectively use OfA in a manner similar to All Might, I think his rapid progressions are largely done and that there will be more equitable emphasis on character development in Class 1-A and Class 1-B. In fact we are seeing this in the current arc, since individuals from both classes will be on display during these fights.
All of this said, I think you are seriously understating the character development in MHA by ignoring the villains. If people want to cite other successful manga like Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Hunter x Hunter, then I would argue that NONE of them have had the same level of character development in the villains as MHA. The foil of All For One / Shigaraki on All Might / Midoriya has been prominent from jump and I think we're really seeing that pay dividends. The Shigaraki from the Overhaul arc that effectively used his resources to sabotage the Eight Precepts' plan, then struck at the opportune moment to maximize benefit to the League of Villains with minimal casualties by attacking Chisaki after he was apprehended is completely unrecognizable from the Shigaraki in the USJ arc. Not every manga needs to develop their villains to tell a great story, but I think that doesn't mean we can or should ignore the villain development in MHA.
I'd also address your point on Deku's personality development a couple of ways: 1) most main characters' personalities in shounen stories don't really change; in fact, I would argue that fans love main characters who are able to overcome challenges while staying true to themselves and their goals, and whilst inspiring those around them to change for the better. Gon is a perfect example: from the beginning he was a very pure and simple character. His goal, personality and intentions remain the same pretty much up to him exiting the story. When it comes down to it, the character in HxH with the most personality development by FAR is Killua. That said, I think how Togashi handled Gon and the personality development in HxH was great and really made Gon's character more impactful. Deku is very similar: All Might, the greatest hero EVER, has acknowledged from the beginning that Deku has what it takes to become an even greater hero. From a narrative perspective, doesn't that mean there really shouldn't be many fundamental shifts in personality?
However, that's not to say that Deku doesn't have any personality development because 2) we have actually seen numerous examples of development across a broad spectrum. For one, Deku used to be a crybaby and a worrywart. In earlier parts of the manga, Deku usually reacted to being in a pinch wearing his fear and apprehension on his sleeve. As he's become more accustomed to the hero role, he's shown much more confidence and the inclination to smile when in dangerous situations (showing the pressure of heroes). While I don't think this is a crazy amount of personality development, I'd contend that it's really the ONLY type of personality development he should be having. The real development we've seen are from the side characters like Todoroki (dealing with Endeavor issues that are fundamental to his quirk and personality) and Bakugou (overcoming huge ego issues and beginning to look to Deku as an equal). This isn't even including other characters who have been given their one-off instances of development such as Yaoyorozu (fighting Aizawa with Todoroki), Kirishima (Eight Precepts raid), Iida (Stain arc), and even Aoyama (creepy Deku stalking mini arc).
I’m not sure how you can compare any villain in MHa to orochimaru, Hisoka, gaara, Zabuza, Itachi, the various antagonists in one piece and with a straight face say MHa stacks anywhere close to them development wise. I just can’t take a statement like that dude. I know opinions exist and all but come on.
Stain had an ideology that we have no idea how he came to it. No backstory. Shigaraki is still very much a mystery and just a bad guy because we know that he’s broken. Overhaul was just a glorified gangster. All for one just got his backstory fully developed in the last few chapters
Stain had an ideology that we have no idea how he came to it. No backstory. Shigaraki is still very much a mystery and just a bad guy because we know that he’s broken. Overhaul was just a glorified gangster. All for one just got his backstory fully developed in the last few chapters
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Hisoka has had no development - dude is the same person he was when he entered the story, but that's actually a benefit because he is similar to Gon in that he has such a powerful personality (one of my fav characters in any manga tbh). My issue with using Orochimaru, Gaara and Itachi as examples of villain development is that NONE of them end up as villains. I really like these characters, but Kishimoto never doubled down on their villainy. Orochimaru's whole change to being a good guy honestly seemed shoehorned in as fan service to me - he did some pretty horrible things (not even as a cover like Itachi, just actually horrible things) and now he's just turned over a new leaf? Real hazy justification...something something Will of Fire. Zabuza also had some genuine development but was then one of those characters that was used a couple of times and then became completely disregarded.
I think these guys don't really compare to Shigaraki for a number of reasons. For one, Shigaraki is pure villain, not undercover like Itachi. He's actually driven by ideals that have been nurtured, unlike a Hisoka who flips back and forth between villain and anti-hero at a whim (a quality which I love about Hisoka, but which doesn't make him a strong villain character). He's also shown the ability to learn and develop further into MORE of a villain, which I really don't think any of the above have shown. I actually agree with you on OP though, I think Oda probably does villains better than everything else mentioned. So that's one manga out of the shounen that have been mentioned.
I agree that Stain's appearance was brief (although there is more background given in Vigilantes - not really compelling though) and Overhaul was essentially fodder. However, I think the amount of development these two individuals spurred in Shigaraki made them very useful to driving the story. In the context of the greater story, I think both were stepping stones in Shigaraki's mental development, similar to the obstacles that Midoriya has faced in developing his physical power.
- Mar 28, 2009
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How itachi ended up has to be one the most trash things in naruto. ***** killed his mom and dad for danzo LOL. He was better off as a villain.....
everysingletime
formerly amel223
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I wouldn't say mha is ignoring characters.
If they were then mha would be a lot more boring.
But the emphasis should always stay on Deku. He's the heart of the show.
If they were then mha would be a lot more boring.
But the emphasis should always stay on Deku. He's the heart of the show.
- Mar 3, 2012
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This is one thing I respect about MHA with his development....
But this is also the problem. I dont mind him upgrading learning. This is what makes Deku one of the most compelling anime characters (and why I see why so many people love this manga).
It's a problem because we don't see anyone else really truly growing with him other than todoroki as brief as that is... The arc they're on now still mentions how they're still first years and it's winter now. That essentially means all this stuff that has happened in the Manga almost 200 chapters in has all been in 3/4 months......
Deku went from finger blasting breaking bones being a coward.... to basically being the top hero in his class in 3/4 months...........Think on that. I have no problem with HIS development... it's everyone else's that is shameful...This is what Blake and I mean by it's TOO focused on him. With them only showing those 3 upperclassmen in action (I still dont know what the girl in that trio does/can do) and taking out Lemillion now and the food eating dude is pretty much non-existent...
Deku needs more people that he has to surpass. this is why I Said he went from 0 - 100 in no time.
Facts.
Gawd don't get me started on how disappointing it is with the Stain thing.
Til this day we still dont know Orochimaru's end game. I think he remained a villian it's just he was beat and had to get rid of the real threat first...
The villians changed in Naruto, but then again Shippuden is a whole other kerfluffle we can get in too later.....I don't have Naruto on my top 5 best mangas or anything. I LOVED NARUTO don't get me wrong, mainly because of ninjas and investments. but Naruto pre time skip was the truly captivating one.......... shippudden was a mess basically after Pain arc.
I don't want to hear any more from you til you get your ainme/manga library pass 4 stories lol
everysingletime
formerly amel223
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Lol when in doubt, throw in the 'I watch more anime than you' card...
But..
Dbz, opm, fmab, aot, and mha
That's 5. I guess you have to listen to me then
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Dbz dont count... Had you said. Dragonball the one with an actual plot id listen so....Lol when in doubt, throw in the 'I watch more anime than you' card...
But..
Dbz, opm, fmab, aot, and mha
That's 5. I guess you have to listen to me then
Back to ear plugs to you
everysingletime
formerly amel223
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tdogg2k
it's aight to not like a popular anime. OP is one of the biggest ever and I haven't seen an ep of it. Just haven't been compelled to start especially now that there are a million episodes.Anyway my only issues with what you said is A) the "you're always supposed to win" formula you said they use. What anime doesn't use this. The protagonist always wins in the end. However, they take L's along the way and overcoming those is what makes it interesting. Deku is the main character and he lost the sports festival, the entire training in the forest arc was a loss for the heroes because Bakugo was kidnapped and all the injuries people took, Deku and Lemillion had to take an L when they couldn't save that little girl in the alley when they first met her. It's also about sacrifices too , All Might had sacrifice the remaining one for all to beat all for one, Lemillion, and Sir....
B) The Endeavour arc. I agree it would be nice if it were a little longer or flushed out, but I know it's just a set up. They're clearly going to tie it up.... I assume. Also the transition back to Deku isn't just another training arc. It's really about his dream and discovering more about the past of One For All.
Can't argue the villain point, but I personally didn't mind the Stain arc. They sacrificed the character to use his ideology to create more villains, but didn't realize that Stain himself is super interesting and deserved more.
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My issue with your analysis here is that Deku was NEVER, EVER a coward. Dude saw Bakugou being attacked by a villain with professional heroes struggling to save him and ran into the fray WITHOUT A QUIRK. Call him brave or stupid, but you can't call him a coward. He had always had one of the top analytical minds in the class, constantly putting together plans using the tools he had (i.e. his busted quirk) to consistently achieve good outcomes (e.g. top 10 finisher at UA sports festival). It's natural that once the use of his powers accelerated then he would become even more of a threat.
Frankly, I think if everyone grew at the same pace that he did then this manga would become extremely unrealistic, because everyone has had their quirks for nearly their entire lives. The improvements they can make can't double or triple their power in the same way Deku did, it wouldn't make sense. That said, if you haven't seen progression in the class then you haven't been looking. Kaminari is able to effectively use electricity at range, Tsuyu has developed a number of more frog-like abilities, Kirishima's hardening has vastly improved, Todoroki is able to use fire and ice simultaneously, and Bakugou has created a TON of new moves.
You're really focused on the student dynamic and I think my response to that is: not ALL of them are going to become top 10 heroes. That's a reality at any educational institution - not everyone is going to keep the same pace. Out of the younger generation, we have seen only a few heroes that will almost surely be top 10 at this moment: Midoriya, Bakugo, Todoroki, Yoarashi, and the Big 3. We've seen all of these people either prove their strength outright or progress their strength in numerous ways. Instead of focusing on how the other classmates can keep up with Midoriya so that they can provide meaningful obstacles for him to overcome, we should be more focused on this: How many villains exist that could beat All Might at only 20% power? What types of situations (hostage, rescue, etc.) would be difficult for All-Might to handle at 20%? Meanwhile, we will continue to see other micro-plots like Endeavor/Hawks and progression arcs from other side characters, but we shouldn't look at everyone's progress in the context of Midoriya's progress because NO ONE will progress as fast as him.
everysingletime
formerly amel223
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No one is going to progress as fast as Deku, because basically he cheated. Not taking anything away from Deku. He's brave and thinks fast on his feet. But, he has All Might's power ... lol
Even so, he's still behind the others. Last time Bakugo and him had a one on one fight, Bakugo won.
Even so, he's still behind the others. Last time Bakugo and him had a one on one fight, Bakugo won.
- Mar 28, 2009
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Best thing about deku is that he actually uses his brain and did all the PRE-RESEARCH on his opponents. Unlike the typical dumb main character that screams and wills his way thru....
- Mar 3, 2012
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I wouldn't say he lost the sports festival. it got stopped.
Anyway my only issues with what you said is A) the "you're always supposed to win" formula you said they use. What anime doesn't use this. The protagonist always wins in the end. However, they take L's along the way and overcoming those is what makes it interesting. Deku is the main character and he lost the sports festival, the entire training in the forest arc was a loss for the heroes because Bakugo was kidnapped and all the injuries people took, Deku and Lemillion had to take an L when they couldn't save that little girl in the alley when they first met her. It's also about sacrifices too , All Might had sacrifice the remaining one for all to beat all for one, Lemillion, and Sir.....
Deku beat muscular a dude who probably would've given any real hero a run for their money
Deku beat bird mask dude..............
And these are on first tries.
Other animes people arent necessarily winning the first time around. or atleast not in the same chapter as Deku does.
Lemillion being sacrificed was a problem for me...they made it seem like oh look, people who are better than you, more poised to be amazing...then boom let's take his powers away it's upsetting because it seems like Deku has no one else to look up to other than All might.
no one to strive to be better than, he's better than his peers......at least thats how it seems to be getting written.
This is the problem.
I understand that Deku is new to the powers so he should grow. But.......even though everyone has had their powers for a bit longer we dont know (some quirks manifest later ) This school should be teaching them how to make it stronger and better
Outside of Tsuyu no one else has really showed the prowess and skill she has.
Oracho got a bit tougher.
Tenya still about the same.
Maybe Kirshima has grown but there wasn't much you could do with his skill and character anyway.
Bakugo hasn't really honed himself from what we've seen
HERE LIES THE PROBLEM
Why have a story that sort of teases the side characters, but I only get Deku..........I only get all might... I get a taste here of some new characters.
MHA is doing this all wrong, this is why I (PERSONALLY) can't get invested... I have nothing else to hold on too except deku.... and his progression is .........cool, but he's just not that much of an interesting character outside of him trying to learn this skill......
and correction he IS coward, but courageous at the same time. .. He's trusting himself more which is good.
This is the main thing I give him and this manga credit for I've already said.
everysingletime
formerly amel223
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Lol Deku was never a coward at any point of the anime/manga
He was already braver than a lot of heroes before he had even got his powers. It's what got All Might to notice him in the first place.
He was already braver than a lot of heroes before he had even got his powers. It's what got All Might to notice him in the first place.
everysingletime
formerly amel223
- Apr 4, 2006
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Lol Deku was never a coward at any point of the anime/manga
He was already braver than a lot of heroes before he had even got his powers. It's what got All Might to notice him in the first place.
He was already braver than a lot of heroes before he had even got his powers. It's what got All Might to notice him in the first place.
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One thing you definitely have wrong: Midoriya actually lost to Todoroki. After the blast, he was ruled out-of-bounds, whereas Todoroki's ice cushion kept him in the ring. He completely lost to Todoroki.
I disagree that other people in the class haven't improved. Here are examples:
1) Midoriya (obvious)
2) Bakugou - has matured mentally shown by his acceptance of Deku and his attitude toward Deku and All Might's relationship after their fight. Dude has also come up with about 3-4 different supermoves during their supermove training, examples being the Howitzer Impact, AP Shot and AP Shot: Auto Cannon. We also see his brand of being a hero when the League of Villains kidnap him in an attempt to make him sympathetic to their cause. He proceeds to evade a group of 5+ villains by himself for an extended period of time
3) Todoroki - mentally matured by analyzing his relationship with his father and accepting him - in turn, he has been able to simultaneously both fire and ice
4) Iida - went through a trauma when his brother was incapacitated by Stain and developed further mental fortitude - given his ability, most of his training has focused on extending use of his quirk. He DOES have one new ability - Recipro Extend
5) Tsuyu - mental progression after the OfA vs AfO battle, when she told Kirishima / Todoroki that they would be villains if they just did whatever they wanted. While her straightforward way of thinking is usually very useful in breaking down complex problems, she recognized that there are somewhat grey areas afterward during the UA dorm room competition arc. She has continued to develop more abilities similar to a frog, such as camouflage
6) Kirishima - was part of the task force to take down Chisaki, where he faced a life / death situation against a villain practically alone, with only his hardening quirk to help him in the fight. This showed the developments in his quirk training and mental toughness
7) Ochaco - up to this point, her defining moment was turning down Deku's help before her fight with Bakugou and forcing him - someone considered among the top 2 in Class 1-A combat ability at that point - to fight her completely seriously
Tokoyami - we've seen his relationship with Dark Shadow in a number of situations, from the sports festival where his major weakness is revealed to the training camp arc where Dark Shadow goes insane. He's created a new move that allows him to "wear" Dark Shadow in close combat9) Yaoyorozu - while initially admitted by referral, she fades into obscurity shortly after the beginning of the story with no real feats. This is addressed during the final exam arc where she has to overcome her own anxiety and make split second decisions with confidence in order to defeat Aizawa. Hell, the anime has an entire episode dedicated to this titled "Yaoyorozu Rising"
10) Kaminari - we see him finally able to use his electricity effectively during the provisional license exam where he comes up big against Shiketsu
The above are some of the progressions of 10 characters in Class 1-A: there are only 20 students total. While not everyone has been given the same depth, two of them have been the focus of major story arcs (Iida / Stain, Bakugou / Kidnapping) and others have had key moments or entire episodes dedicated to them.
Frankly if the above doesn't convince you that there has been real attention paid to other students' progressions outside of Midoriya then I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Most of your comments seem to imply that MHA is making poor decisions for the long-term; this will prove itself out over the coming years, and will likely be settled 10 years from now when MHA is either mentioned in the same sentence as OP & HxH or instead compared to Bleach.
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Saitama because he has plot armor.
Gang has been injured before, which means he can be killed unlike Saitama.
But I feel like Gang has also never taken his fights serious from the get go. Eventually, he gets super pissed and blanks out against the person he is facing, but even after the fact it still seems like he never really tapped into his real power.
I'd definitely pay good money to see 'em fight...
...
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One thing you definitely have wrong: Midoriya actually lost to Todoroki. After the blast, he was ruled out-of-bounds, whereas Todoroki's ice cushion kept him in the ring. He completely lost to Todoroki.
I disagree that other people in the class haven't improved. Here are examples:
1) Midoriya (obvious)
2) Bakugou - has matured mentally shown by his acceptance of Deku and his attitude toward Deku and All Might's relationship after their fight. Dude has also come up with about 3-4 different supermoves during their supermove training, examples being the Howitzer Impact, AP Shot and AP Shot: Auto Cannon. We also see his brand of being a hero when the League of Villains kidnap him in an attempt to make him sympathetic to their cause. He proceeds to evade a group of 5+ villains by himself for an extended period of time
3) Todoroki - mentally matured by analyzing his relationship with his father and accepting him - in turn, he has been able to simultaneously both fire and ice
4) Iida - went through a trauma when his brother was incapacitated by Stain and developed further mental fortitude - given his ability, most of his training has focused on extending use of his quirk. He DOES have one new ability - Recipro Extend
5) Tsuyu - mental progression after the OfA vs AfO battle, when she told Kirishima / Todoroki that they would be villains if they just did whatever they wanted. While her straightforward way of thinking is usually very useful in breaking down complex problems, she recognized that there are somewhat grey areas afterward during the UA dorm room competition arc. She has continued to develop more abilities similar to a frog, such as camouflage
6) Kirishima - was part of the task force to take down Chisaki, where he faced a life / death situation against a villain practically alone, with only his hardening quirk to help him in the fight. This showed the developments in his quirk training and mental toughness
7) Ochaco - up to this point, her defining moment was turning down Deku's help before her fight with Bakugou and forcing him - someone considered among the top 2 in Class 1-A combat ability at that point - to fight her completely seriously
9) Yaoyorozu - while initially admitted by referral, she fades into obscurity shortly after the beginning of the story with no real feats. This is addressed during the final exam arc where she has to overcome her own anxiety and make split second decisions with confidence in order to defeat Aizawa. Hell, the anime has an entire episode dedicated to this titled "Yaoyorozu Rising"
10) Kaminari - we see him finally able to use his electricity effectively during the provisional license exam where he comes up big against Shiketsu
The above are some of the progressions of 10 characters in Class 1-A: there are only 20 students total. While not everyone has been given the same depth, two of them have been the focus of major story arcs (Iida / Stain, Bakugou / Kidnapping) and others have had key moments or entire episodes dedicated to them.
Frankly if the above doesn't convince you that there has been real attention paid to other students' progressions outside of Midoriya then I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Most of your comments seem to imply that MHA is making poor decisions for the long-term; this will prove itself out over the coming years, and will likely be settled 10 years from now when MHA is either mentioned in the same sentence as OP & HxH or instead compared to Bleach.
I recognize all that change, I see it, trust me I do .....it's quick not emphasized and not touched on again...
They get 1 chapter......just 1.
Every other Manga with the same parameters as MHA gives those side characters and developments a bit more shine. extra panels extra chapter ...MHA its... let's get back to deku As soon as possible
I’ll just point out that Lids could’ve had a genuine moment but nope we need deku to come in and make the scene all about him. Also todoroki was the one who held off stain for the most of the fight and gave lida the pep talk. Then we never hear about Lida going through anymore issues again. His life is perfect now and he’s tossed to the side
I say that tongue in cheek, but you don’t have to have everything revolve around the main character being on the scene. How many times were Eren, Naruto, gin etc not even in the scene and things happened without them.
I say that tongue in cheek, but you don’t have to have everything revolve around the main character being on the scene. How many times were Eren, Naruto, gin etc not even in the scene and things happened without them.
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Kirishima's fight with Rappa and background was given four chapters in the manga. Lemillion fighting Overhaul, while largely offscreen, was a huge moment in the manga, something I still think about randomly some days. League of Villains vs. Eight Precepts. Endeavor/Hawk. All intense, impactful moments that didn't involve Deku at all. This isn't counting any of the training exercises, sports festival fights and final exam fights that didn't involve Deku but were shown in their entirety.
I personally think there will be even more of these moments going forward since Deku's progression will have to slow down, but I can't seem to convince you so I guess we should follow up next year.
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Were on the same page....we just were reading /interpreting different stories before this page...
Ive said this from my initial "hating" of mha a year ago...if they start going in this direction and giving us more side stories and give us the side characters to love more (than what some may already)..
MHAs potential is unreal..
Maybe other people see it before me....but i dont want to base it off potential...im looking at the here and now. And it didnt do it for me almost 200 chapters in ....
I was well invested with the previous era big 3 200 chaps in...as we most were. .
Ive said this from my initial "hating" of mha a year ago...if they start going in this direction and giving us more side stories and give us the side characters to love more (than what some may already)..
MHAs potential is unreal..
Maybe other people see it before me....but i dont want to base it off potential...im looking at the here and now. And it didnt do it for me almost 200 chapters in ....
I was well invested with the previous era big 3 200 chaps in...as we most were. .
everysingletime
formerly amel223
- Apr 4, 2006
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I wanted to mention how much time the manga devoted to kiroshima at one point.. Todoroki was name dropped a few times on here but no one mentioned kiroshima before you just now.
I actually didn't like that part of the manga and I felt like I just wanted to get back to Deku. I felt like kiroshima was the most random character for the manga to devote time to.
Also I feel like Deku's progression is just the right pace. 200 chapters. 20 percent. At this rate it'll take 1000 chapters for him to get to 100
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Respectfully disagree.
I admit i did forget about that...but that was great. Getting a full backstory about him ..and he was with a really cool hero.
I admit i did forget about that...but that was great. Getting a full backstory about him ..and he was with a really cool hero.
