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These baby rockets may not win much, but they're going to be a fun team to watch,
The Official Off-Season NBA Thread
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by pmatic,
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I’m taking PJ over Bridges but maybe that’s just me
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Jalen green out here
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My heat looking 
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Christian Wood is a bucket...on both ends of the floor.
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Curious, why would you pass?
lawdog1
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I don’t think I could do much to help them. A
And I wouldn’t want to get on the bad side of the NBA, in case I apply for commissioner at some point.
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Steven Adams unsurprisingly looking productive for Mempis…
antidope
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14 year old me would have gone nuts over Camille Winbush nudes.
Keke Palmer gets an OF and I am going broke.
Keke Palmer gets an OF and I am going broke.
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It’s still weird to me. Baby girl needs to put her clothes back on. Bernie would be yelling “Oooh LAWD” 
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Houston should trade Theis to a playoff team. See what they can get.
T0INE
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Last edited:
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I just saw that nba commercial, man that was cool.
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So is Rich telling him to not report and take the fines?
Becasue what Shams is saying (behind the dramatic *** music) is that -name redacted- is too ***** to report but Rich kinda wants him to show up? On top of Klutch not being aware of fine money and the escro accounts
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Still can’t believe they asked for 3 first round picks for that dude
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Emotions aside, I can understand why especially if it’s just CJ for him
Dame and Outback MCW would both be under control together for 4 years (assuming Dame decides to stay). That’s still a PO team. CJ and 3 picks in the 20s for him isn’t terrible (2 is much better)
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On Kyrie Irving, Ben Simmons, Damian Lillard and Bradley Beal: Trade scenarios and insight from our insiders
While it seems like there’s always at least one star saga happening at the start of every NBA season, it’s rare to have as many sensitive situations involving elite players to monitor at the same time as the league has right now.
So we asked NBA insiders David Aldridge, Sam Amick and John Hollinger to tell us what they know and analyze the very unique situations involving Ben Simmons, Kyrie Irving, Damian Lillard and Bradley Beal.
Below is their discussion and their insights.
Amick: There are a few common threads between the four uncomfortable conflicts and all sorts of scenarios where their basketball fates could ultimately intersect, but each one is distinct too. The idea here is to go a little deeper on the factors at play here while spinning it forward based on what we know.
We’ll start with Kyrie because, well, the developments on that front are still pretty fresh. After he was held out of the team’s first preseason game and with him unable to report to camp, it has now become public knowledge that he still hasn’t been vaccinated. He appears willing to miss games and the massive amounts of money that come with them because of his choice.
So, what are the Nets going to do here, and — considering he hasn’t signed an extension yet and could be a free agent this summer — is there a possible impact on his long-term future with the franchise here?
Hollinger: The one thing you can’t do if you’re the Nets is extend him right now, because then you’re stuck with him whether he’s playing or not; he can’t be traded for six months after he inks an extension. Talk about golden handcuffs. And with the very peculiar situation that Irving has less value in Brooklyn than virtually any other market (New York, Golden State and perhaps now L.A. would be the only exceptions) because of the vaccination requirement to play, you have to look at a trade as one of the potential ways out of this impasse.
Of course a trade has its own ramifications, because Irving can opt out and become a free agent after the season. An “extend-and-trade” is legal but can only add one extra year to his deal beyond the 2022-23 player option he already has. That doesn’t really seem to be a wise play for Irving when he can get a full five-year bag in the summer.
And, of course, any trade requires two to tango. Between the 2022 flight risk, the non-vaccination, and Irving’s already burgeoning reputation for being a bit difficult, what team out there is willing to trade something that the Nets would want? If only there were a disgruntled All-Star perimeter player on another contending team who might want to trade places…
Amick: Yeah, you read my mind there John. According to ESPN’s trade machine, which still features your analysis as part of its construct from your old days working there, a deal that sent Irving to Portland, Lillard to Philadelphia and Simmons to Brooklyn would only make the Sixers a better team (plus-7 wins for Philly vs. minus-six for the Nets and minus-1 for the Trail Blazers).
With all due respect to, well, you, I think there’s an argument to be made that Simmons’ nuanced value is being underestimated by the machine and, basically, everyone not named (Sixers president of basketball operations) Daryl Morey. Can you imagine Kevin Durant and James Harden catching dimes from Simmons on one end for the Nets while watching him lock up the opposing team’s best perimeter player on the other and elevating their deficient defense? It simply can’t be forgotten that, despite all of Simmons’ offensive imperfections, he’s an elite playmaker and a guy who finished second in Defensive Player of the Year voting last season.
But that deal isn’t happening for a number of reasons, chief among them the fact that Lillard — for now — has backed off quite a bit when it comes to his desire to be elsewhere. As our esteemed Blazers beat writer, Jason Quick, wrote recently, Lillard is focused on “going out on his shield” and trying yet again to take the Blazers to that elusive next level. His stance could certainly change if the Blazers get off to a bad start, but sources say Lillard wants to see how this early season goes while giving first-year coach Chauncey Billups a genuine shot at success along the way. All of which is a roundabout way of saying that I don’t think Kyrie isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. Especially because of the personal dynamics that are in play in Brooklyn.
A quick reminder: It was Irving and Durant who — by their own admission — were seen discussing their plans to team up in 2020 free agency at the 2019 All-Star game in Charlotte. They built this thing together, and their presence obviously sparked the James Harden trade that was to come.
There are no signs that Durant’s affinity for Irving has changed since then, meaning Nets owner Joe Tsai and general manager Sean Marks would run the risk of getting sideways with their best player (that being Durant, who recently signed an extension and is under contract through 2026) if they found a new home for Irving. In today’s NBA, that’s just not the way to go.
Still, something has to give here. The notion of Irving being a part-time player is obviously untenable, and the lack of an extension means it’s fair to wonder about what the Nets might do if nothing changes in the coming weeks and months. There’s this, too: Tsai recently shared his candid view on the vaccine topic with our Nets beat writer, Alex Schiffer, and it’s safe to say he strongly disagrees with people who choose not to take it.
“It’s part of social responsibility, when you think about it, to do the socially responsible thing,” Tsai said in their sit-down interview. “I know that there’s just so many scenarios where there’s a conflict between personal choice and what is good for the greater goal. And guess what? Our greater goal for the Nets is that we want to win a championship. That’s very, very clear. And I want to make sure that people don’t lose sight of that.”
Aldridge: I think the Nets can afford to continue to give Irving some latitude, given his relationship with KD. Chances are Brooklyn will get off to a fast start regardless of whether Irving’s in the building open night, or opening week; there are still two league MVPs in the starting five. But you can’t be sanguine forever when it comes to New York. The city operates on an exponentially faster, far angrier clock than most other city’s timepieces. The Nets’ front office is somewhat insular, and I don’t think Sean Marks is going to be impacted by back page tabloid headlines. But Irving’s from Jersey — not right across the river, about 45 minutes away – but close. I think it’ll be hard to hold out indefinitely. And I detect little interest around the league in him — though there’s always one team, and it only takes one. Brooklyn’s in a tough spot, but not a wholly unmanageable one.
One other thing that I don’t think we’re considering, or at least not enough: does Kyrie, genuinely, still want to play in the NBA? And I don’t mean the hooping; he loves that, loves the competition. He is, still, the most unguardable guy in the league with the ball, IMHO. And his friendship with KD and others around the league is legit. I mean the rest of it – dealing with us media wretches on the regular, reflexively going along with the league when it comes to commerce (remember, it was Irving who cautioned against diving all-in on the Orlando Bubble), doing some of the other things star players have to do to keep the machine fed. It’s clear he doesn’t care much for that at all.
I will say one GM volunteered a straight-up, Kyrie for Simmons trade to me Wednesday: “one problem for another.” Man, Simmons on the Nets would almost be unfair.
Hollinger: DA, let me throw some D.C.-related spice your way … what are the odds of Bradley Beal being involved in any of this? Can we get a four-player, four-team trade cooking that’s Irving for Simmons for Beal for Lillard or have I been cooped up too long?
Aldridge: It’s worth asking, but the trade ship, if it hasn’t already sailed, has gotten clearance to leave the dock and has its manifest logged into the computer. As with Lillard, Beal wants to win, but he’s never had any particular wanderlust. There’s zero incentive for Washington, now that it finally has escaped cap hell by breaking up John Wall’s max extension (via Russell Westbrook) into more digestible pieces, to move Beal now and leave a roster just good enough not to royally suck and deliver a high Lottery pick. The Wizards offered him a four-year, $181 million extension last week – everything they could give him – knowing there’s almost no chance he’ll take it. If he’s going to stay in D.C., he’ll wait to re-sign until next summer, when he can get the full bag – worth, for five years, around $235 million, as a 10-year vet eligible for a 35 percent max deal.
Westbrook tried to get Beal to demand a trade this summer. He wouldn’t. This is the first time that Beal’s playing with guys in D.C. that are truly his peers, people he knows and wanted to play with, like Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Spencer Dinwiddie. (I think Beal wanted out after 2019-20, but the shortened offseason after the bubble playoffs made it very difficult for Washington to make a deal – not that the Wizards were much interested, and especially after finding a deal for Wall.) I’m not saying Beal may not look around if the Wizards, again, struggle to make the playoffs this year or find themselves back in the Lottery next summer. There will always be interest in him. But there aren’t many teams projected to have significant cap space next year, and none of them are particularly any more enticing to him than staying in D.C. and getting the aforementioned bag would be.
On Ben Simmons…
Amick: DA, I think that discussion about shared incentive to make a move — or lack thereof — is where the Simmons situation stands alone among these four. His camp grew frustrated with this staring contest quite some time ago, as they left the August meeting with Sixers brass with the belief that a deal would likely go down by the time the June 23 draft came and went. To review, that was the day when Simmons, who was with Sixers managing partner Josh Harris, Morey, general manager Elton Brand and his Klutch Sports agent, Rich Paul, at Paul’s Los Angeles home, made it clear to all of them that he wanted out.
“They didn’t expect him to do that,” one source with knowledge of the meeting said. “But they felt it, and they knew it was genuine.”
But here’s the thing: Morey has made it clear, both then and now, that he has extremely high expectations for the eventual return on a Simmons deal. I get it, for sure, as we’re talking about a three-time All-Star and one-time All-NBA player.
But as you both know, and has been said and written about plenty of times, the Lillard-for-Simmons swap with Portland that is widely seen as Morey’s dream scenario just isn’t realistic. Not yet, anyway.
“You’re waiting on a prayer,” the source said of the Lillard scenario.
And in the absence of that, no one can seem to figure out what sort of trade gets this sticky situation resolved. Meanwhile, we’ve officially reached the point where Simmons is paying dearly for staying away — reportedly $360,000 per preseason game missed, with the money coming out of the $8.25 million that was withheld from him recently and placed in an escrow account from which fines will be deducted.
It remains to be seen whether he gives in and shows up at some point, but it was made clear to me in the reporting for this Sept. 28 piece that all hope of reconciliation is gone.
“Even if (Simmons) shows up, I think there’s no chance of him ever mentally being back in Philly,” the source said.
So, John, are you hearing about any non-Lillard scenarios here that might work?
Hollinger: Other than the idea of Brooklyn and Philly swapping headaches in a Simmons-Irving swap? We know several teams called to at least kick the tires, but Philly’s win-now situation impacts the type of trade they can do with another team. Getting a bunch of “assets” from San Antonio, for instance, isn’t helping the title chase unless they can immediately parlay them into another player.
It’s much better for Philly to acquire that piece right away, and there are two scenarios that seem at least quasi-realistic for accomplishing that. The first would be the oft-discussed Minnesota scenario, where the Wolves send DeAngelo Russell and some to-be-determined amount of draft equity (multiple firsts, surely) to Philadelphia in return for Simmons.
Is Russell the Sixers’ ideal target? Absolutely not. Is he good enough to get them through some of the season, or perhaps even all of it, until their ideal target (coughLillardcough) becomes available? Possibly. And once that target comes available, Russell makes enough money that he checks the box for the offsetting contract in the deal … along with all the draft picks from Minnesota and perhaps some other stuff from the Sixers. Think of it as a delayed three-way trade.
Of course, Philadelpehia would rather do that three-way trade all at once, which is why the Sixers are likely to keep their options open for a while rather than settle for what the Wolves can do.
But there’s one other one that keeps gnawing at me: Indiana. The Pacers are a good, solid team lacking in star power. The Sixers have a star but need a guard who can shoot and has some leadership qualities. Enter Malcolm Brogdon, erudite product of the nation’s finest university and a top-notch perimeter marksman. Other contracts would be involved — perhaps Jeremy Lamb’s expiring contract, or Justin Holiday or Caris LeVert — and surely there would be draft equity (or recent first-rounder Chris Duarte) headed to Philly as well.
It’s not a perfect deal for either side. Brogdon is lower on the star totem pole than the Sixers are aiming. And a Pacers team with Simmons, Domantas Sabonis and Myles Turner playing together would probably need another trade to optimize its talent.
Again, it seems to me Philly might prefer waiting to pull the trigger on something like that right now, but it might be the best “right now” move they can execute.
Finally, I’ll note there are also 3-way variants that I can torture everybody with involving Philly, Minnesota and Indiana, but I can’t find one that ends in a better place than the two-team trades above.
One other thought: Does it help or hurt Philly if they get off to a slow start? On the one hand it might increase the panic factor. But on the other … what better way to demonstrate Simmons’ value to other teams than if the Sixers struggle without him?
Aldridge: Sam knows where I’m going. I just think Sacramento can make a better offer to Philly for Simmons than either Indy or Minnesota. The Kings have three point guards, all of whom are under 24. And I know they’re saying they can make it work between De’Aaron Fox and Tyrese Haliburton and Davion Mitchell. And one of Sac’s best five-man lineups last season, with a good sample size (400+ minutes), had Fox, Haliburton and Buddy Hield playing together with Harrison Barnes and Richaun Holmes – a net rating of 7.6, per NBA.com. But if the ball finds energy, as Mike D’Antoni likes to say, agents find minutes for guys looking to get paid. Fox already got his, but Haliburton and Mitchell will be looking for theirs pretty soon. Either of those two, with Buddy Hield – I think it’s safe to say Hield’s not looking to settle down in the 916 after being a nanosecond from going to the Lakers – would be a very fair return for Philly for Simmons.
We all know what Hield does. He’s an elite shooter. He’s a mediocre at best defender. (After being, essentially, a net ratings standoff two years ago, Hield sported an offensive rating per 100 possessions last season, per basketball-reference.com, of 109 – and a defensive rating per 100 of 119. Yikes.) Sac was ready to cut ties before the Lakers turned their attention to Russell Westbrook. Playing next to, say, Danny Green, and in front of Joel Embiid, I don’t think Hield’s defensive issues would be quite as acute. And, Lord, would he get some looks.
I’ve written this on Simmons to Sac before, and the rationale still holds. Simmons is an elite defensive player. He’s an elite passer. He has four years left on his deal. (He would have no problem going to Sacramento, I’m told, so strong is his desire to get out of Philadelphia.) The Kings were historically bad defensively last season. Simmons wouldn’t be a savior, but with him and Fox and whichever one of Haliburton or Mitchell the Kings kept in this scenario, Sac would suddenly become a problem defensively, wildly switchable and able to get from defense to offense in a heartbeat. They wouldn’t shoot as good without Hield, but they had Hield last year and went 31-41. What are we talking about?
Given his offensive limitations, Ben Simmons won’t be a savior wherever he goes, including Sacramento. (Of course, he wouldn’t be on the block if he didn’t have those limitations.) But he’s the kind of talent the Kings would never have a chance of getting in free agency. It will be a chancy deal for a new front office to make, but it would be worth the risk, to me.
Amick: Man, I knew I could count on you to bring that Kings fire, DA. If anyone missed it, our Hall of Famer made this spirited Sacramento argument when we last discussed the Simmons situation in early September here. Yet as was the case then, sources tell me the Kings have been determined to see what this current group looks like early on this regular season and haven’t revisited the Simmons situation since the two teams spoke months ago.
As I mentioned then, it’s worth highlighting the fascinating front office relationship dynamics that would be in play if the Kings ever change their stance: Second-year general manager Monte McNair was an understudy of Morey’s during their time together in Houston and still has a very good rapport with him. Ditto for Sachin Gupta, who — in addition to being credited as the creator of the aforementioned ESPN trade machine — recently took over the Timberwolves’ front office after the abrupt dismissal of Gersson Rosas last month. Gupta, who could conceivably improve his chances of keeping the job for the long haul by landing Simmons, headed Morey’s analytics team from 2006 to 2013.
Like San Antonio, Cleveland is another team with known interest where — at least for now — the roster appears to lack the star power to get it done. Unless, that is, you’re willing to construct a deal centered on all of your young talent and first rounders.
Say, Dejounte Murray, Lonnie Walker IV and a bevy of picks from the Spurs, or Colin Sexton, Darius Garland, Isaac Okoro and a bevy of picks from the Cavs? Then, maybe — just maybe — there’d be some traction there. There has been chatter around the league about a Trail Blazers possibility not involving Lillard — a CJ McCollum/Robert Covington/picks kind of thing — but that obviously hasn’t come to fruition either.
While it seems like there’s always at least one star saga happening at the start of every NBA season, it’s rare to have as many sensitive situations involving elite players to monitor at the same time as the league has right now.
So we asked NBA insiders David Aldridge, Sam Amick and John Hollinger to tell us what they know and analyze the very unique situations involving Ben Simmons, Kyrie Irving, Damian Lillard and Bradley Beal.
Below is their discussion and their insights.
Amick: There are a few common threads between the four uncomfortable conflicts and all sorts of scenarios where their basketball fates could ultimately intersect, but each one is distinct too. The idea here is to go a little deeper on the factors at play here while spinning it forward based on what we know.
We’ll start with Kyrie because, well, the developments on that front are still pretty fresh. After he was held out of the team’s first preseason game and with him unable to report to camp, it has now become public knowledge that he still hasn’t been vaccinated. He appears willing to miss games and the massive amounts of money that come with them because of his choice.
So, what are the Nets going to do here, and — considering he hasn’t signed an extension yet and could be a free agent this summer — is there a possible impact on his long-term future with the franchise here?
Hollinger: The one thing you can’t do if you’re the Nets is extend him right now, because then you’re stuck with him whether he’s playing or not; he can’t be traded for six months after he inks an extension. Talk about golden handcuffs. And with the very peculiar situation that Irving has less value in Brooklyn than virtually any other market (New York, Golden State and perhaps now L.A. would be the only exceptions) because of the vaccination requirement to play, you have to look at a trade as one of the potential ways out of this impasse.
Of course a trade has its own ramifications, because Irving can opt out and become a free agent after the season. An “extend-and-trade” is legal but can only add one extra year to his deal beyond the 2022-23 player option he already has. That doesn’t really seem to be a wise play for Irving when he can get a full five-year bag in the summer.
And, of course, any trade requires two to tango. Between the 2022 flight risk, the non-vaccination, and Irving’s already burgeoning reputation for being a bit difficult, what team out there is willing to trade something that the Nets would want? If only there were a disgruntled All-Star perimeter player on another contending team who might want to trade places…
Amick: Yeah, you read my mind there John. According to ESPN’s trade machine, which still features your analysis as part of its construct from your old days working there, a deal that sent Irving to Portland, Lillard to Philadelphia and Simmons to Brooklyn would only make the Sixers a better team (plus-7 wins for Philly vs. minus-six for the Nets and minus-1 for the Trail Blazers).
With all due respect to, well, you, I think there’s an argument to be made that Simmons’ nuanced value is being underestimated by the machine and, basically, everyone not named (Sixers president of basketball operations) Daryl Morey. Can you imagine Kevin Durant and James Harden catching dimes from Simmons on one end for the Nets while watching him lock up the opposing team’s best perimeter player on the other and elevating their deficient defense? It simply can’t be forgotten that, despite all of Simmons’ offensive imperfections, he’s an elite playmaker and a guy who finished second in Defensive Player of the Year voting last season.
But that deal isn’t happening for a number of reasons, chief among them the fact that Lillard — for now — has backed off quite a bit when it comes to his desire to be elsewhere. As our esteemed Blazers beat writer, Jason Quick, wrote recently, Lillard is focused on “going out on his shield” and trying yet again to take the Blazers to that elusive next level. His stance could certainly change if the Blazers get off to a bad start, but sources say Lillard wants to see how this early season goes while giving first-year coach Chauncey Billups a genuine shot at success along the way. All of which is a roundabout way of saying that I don’t think Kyrie isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. Especially because of the personal dynamics that are in play in Brooklyn.
A quick reminder: It was Irving and Durant who — by their own admission — were seen discussing their plans to team up in 2020 free agency at the 2019 All-Star game in Charlotte. They built this thing together, and their presence obviously sparked the James Harden trade that was to come.
There are no signs that Durant’s affinity for Irving has changed since then, meaning Nets owner Joe Tsai and general manager Sean Marks would run the risk of getting sideways with their best player (that being Durant, who recently signed an extension and is under contract through 2026) if they found a new home for Irving. In today’s NBA, that’s just not the way to go.
Still, something has to give here. The notion of Irving being a part-time player is obviously untenable, and the lack of an extension means it’s fair to wonder about what the Nets might do if nothing changes in the coming weeks and months. There’s this, too: Tsai recently shared his candid view on the vaccine topic with our Nets beat writer, Alex Schiffer, and it’s safe to say he strongly disagrees with people who choose not to take it.
“It’s part of social responsibility, when you think about it, to do the socially responsible thing,” Tsai said in their sit-down interview. “I know that there’s just so many scenarios where there’s a conflict between personal choice and what is good for the greater goal. And guess what? Our greater goal for the Nets is that we want to win a championship. That’s very, very clear. And I want to make sure that people don’t lose sight of that.”
Aldridge: I think the Nets can afford to continue to give Irving some latitude, given his relationship with KD. Chances are Brooklyn will get off to a fast start regardless of whether Irving’s in the building open night, or opening week; there are still two league MVPs in the starting five. But you can’t be sanguine forever when it comes to New York. The city operates on an exponentially faster, far angrier clock than most other city’s timepieces. The Nets’ front office is somewhat insular, and I don’t think Sean Marks is going to be impacted by back page tabloid headlines. But Irving’s from Jersey — not right across the river, about 45 minutes away – but close. I think it’ll be hard to hold out indefinitely. And I detect little interest around the league in him — though there’s always one team, and it only takes one. Brooklyn’s in a tough spot, but not a wholly unmanageable one.
One other thing that I don’t think we’re considering, or at least not enough: does Kyrie, genuinely, still want to play in the NBA? And I don’t mean the hooping; he loves that, loves the competition. He is, still, the most unguardable guy in the league with the ball, IMHO. And his friendship with KD and others around the league is legit. I mean the rest of it – dealing with us media wretches on the regular, reflexively going along with the league when it comes to commerce (remember, it was Irving who cautioned against diving all-in on the Orlando Bubble), doing some of the other things star players have to do to keep the machine fed. It’s clear he doesn’t care much for that at all.
I will say one GM volunteered a straight-up, Kyrie for Simmons trade to me Wednesday: “one problem for another.” Man, Simmons on the Nets would almost be unfair.
Hollinger: DA, let me throw some D.C.-related spice your way … what are the odds of Bradley Beal being involved in any of this? Can we get a four-player, four-team trade cooking that’s Irving for Simmons for Beal for Lillard or have I been cooped up too long?
Aldridge: It’s worth asking, but the trade ship, if it hasn’t already sailed, has gotten clearance to leave the dock and has its manifest logged into the computer. As with Lillard, Beal wants to win, but he’s never had any particular wanderlust. There’s zero incentive for Washington, now that it finally has escaped cap hell by breaking up John Wall’s max extension (via Russell Westbrook) into more digestible pieces, to move Beal now and leave a roster just good enough not to royally suck and deliver a high Lottery pick. The Wizards offered him a four-year, $181 million extension last week – everything they could give him – knowing there’s almost no chance he’ll take it. If he’s going to stay in D.C., he’ll wait to re-sign until next summer, when he can get the full bag – worth, for five years, around $235 million, as a 10-year vet eligible for a 35 percent max deal.
Westbrook tried to get Beal to demand a trade this summer. He wouldn’t. This is the first time that Beal’s playing with guys in D.C. that are truly his peers, people he knows and wanted to play with, like Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Spencer Dinwiddie. (I think Beal wanted out after 2019-20, but the shortened offseason after the bubble playoffs made it very difficult for Washington to make a deal – not that the Wizards were much interested, and especially after finding a deal for Wall.) I’m not saying Beal may not look around if the Wizards, again, struggle to make the playoffs this year or find themselves back in the Lottery next summer. There will always be interest in him. But there aren’t many teams projected to have significant cap space next year, and none of them are particularly any more enticing to him than staying in D.C. and getting the aforementioned bag would be.
On Ben Simmons…
Amick: DA, I think that discussion about shared incentive to make a move — or lack thereof — is where the Simmons situation stands alone among these four. His camp grew frustrated with this staring contest quite some time ago, as they left the August meeting with Sixers brass with the belief that a deal would likely go down by the time the June 23 draft came and went. To review, that was the day when Simmons, who was with Sixers managing partner Josh Harris, Morey, general manager Elton Brand and his Klutch Sports agent, Rich Paul, at Paul’s Los Angeles home, made it clear to all of them that he wanted out.
“They didn’t expect him to do that,” one source with knowledge of the meeting said. “But they felt it, and they knew it was genuine.”
But here’s the thing: Morey has made it clear, both then and now, that he has extremely high expectations for the eventual return on a Simmons deal. I get it, for sure, as we’re talking about a three-time All-Star and one-time All-NBA player.
But as you both know, and has been said and written about plenty of times, the Lillard-for-Simmons swap with Portland that is widely seen as Morey’s dream scenario just isn’t realistic. Not yet, anyway.
“You’re waiting on a prayer,” the source said of the Lillard scenario.
And in the absence of that, no one can seem to figure out what sort of trade gets this sticky situation resolved. Meanwhile, we’ve officially reached the point where Simmons is paying dearly for staying away — reportedly $360,000 per preseason game missed, with the money coming out of the $8.25 million that was withheld from him recently and placed in an escrow account from which fines will be deducted.
It remains to be seen whether he gives in and shows up at some point, but it was made clear to me in the reporting for this Sept. 28 piece that all hope of reconciliation is gone.
“Even if (Simmons) shows up, I think there’s no chance of him ever mentally being back in Philly,” the source said.
So, John, are you hearing about any non-Lillard scenarios here that might work?
Hollinger: Other than the idea of Brooklyn and Philly swapping headaches in a Simmons-Irving swap? We know several teams called to at least kick the tires, but Philly’s win-now situation impacts the type of trade they can do with another team. Getting a bunch of “assets” from San Antonio, for instance, isn’t helping the title chase unless they can immediately parlay them into another player.
It’s much better for Philly to acquire that piece right away, and there are two scenarios that seem at least quasi-realistic for accomplishing that. The first would be the oft-discussed Minnesota scenario, where the Wolves send DeAngelo Russell and some to-be-determined amount of draft equity (multiple firsts, surely) to Philadelphia in return for Simmons.
Is Russell the Sixers’ ideal target? Absolutely not. Is he good enough to get them through some of the season, or perhaps even all of it, until their ideal target (coughLillardcough) becomes available? Possibly. And once that target comes available, Russell makes enough money that he checks the box for the offsetting contract in the deal … along with all the draft picks from Minnesota and perhaps some other stuff from the Sixers. Think of it as a delayed three-way trade.
Of course, Philadelpehia would rather do that three-way trade all at once, which is why the Sixers are likely to keep their options open for a while rather than settle for what the Wolves can do.
But there’s one other one that keeps gnawing at me: Indiana. The Pacers are a good, solid team lacking in star power. The Sixers have a star but need a guard who can shoot and has some leadership qualities. Enter Malcolm Brogdon, erudite product of the nation’s finest university and a top-notch perimeter marksman. Other contracts would be involved — perhaps Jeremy Lamb’s expiring contract, or Justin Holiday or Caris LeVert — and surely there would be draft equity (or recent first-rounder Chris Duarte) headed to Philly as well.
It’s not a perfect deal for either side. Brogdon is lower on the star totem pole than the Sixers are aiming. And a Pacers team with Simmons, Domantas Sabonis and Myles Turner playing together would probably need another trade to optimize its talent.
Again, it seems to me Philly might prefer waiting to pull the trigger on something like that right now, but it might be the best “right now” move they can execute.
Finally, I’ll note there are also 3-way variants that I can torture everybody with involving Philly, Minnesota and Indiana, but I can’t find one that ends in a better place than the two-team trades above.
One other thought: Does it help or hurt Philly if they get off to a slow start? On the one hand it might increase the panic factor. But on the other … what better way to demonstrate Simmons’ value to other teams than if the Sixers struggle without him?
Aldridge: Sam knows where I’m going. I just think Sacramento can make a better offer to Philly for Simmons than either Indy or Minnesota. The Kings have three point guards, all of whom are under 24. And I know they’re saying they can make it work between De’Aaron Fox and Tyrese Haliburton and Davion Mitchell. And one of Sac’s best five-man lineups last season, with a good sample size (400+ minutes), had Fox, Haliburton and Buddy Hield playing together with Harrison Barnes and Richaun Holmes – a net rating of 7.6, per NBA.com. But if the ball finds energy, as Mike D’Antoni likes to say, agents find minutes for guys looking to get paid. Fox already got his, but Haliburton and Mitchell will be looking for theirs pretty soon. Either of those two, with Buddy Hield – I think it’s safe to say Hield’s not looking to settle down in the 916 after being a nanosecond from going to the Lakers – would be a very fair return for Philly for Simmons.
We all know what Hield does. He’s an elite shooter. He’s a mediocre at best defender. (After being, essentially, a net ratings standoff two years ago, Hield sported an offensive rating per 100 possessions last season, per basketball-reference.com, of 109 – and a defensive rating per 100 of 119. Yikes.) Sac was ready to cut ties before the Lakers turned their attention to Russell Westbrook. Playing next to, say, Danny Green, and in front of Joel Embiid, I don’t think Hield’s defensive issues would be quite as acute. And, Lord, would he get some looks.
I’ve written this on Simmons to Sac before, and the rationale still holds. Simmons is an elite defensive player. He’s an elite passer. He has four years left on his deal. (He would have no problem going to Sacramento, I’m told, so strong is his desire to get out of Philadelphia.) The Kings were historically bad defensively last season. Simmons wouldn’t be a savior, but with him and Fox and whichever one of Haliburton or Mitchell the Kings kept in this scenario, Sac would suddenly become a problem defensively, wildly switchable and able to get from defense to offense in a heartbeat. They wouldn’t shoot as good without Hield, but they had Hield last year and went 31-41. What are we talking about?
Given his offensive limitations, Ben Simmons won’t be a savior wherever he goes, including Sacramento. (Of course, he wouldn’t be on the block if he didn’t have those limitations.) But he’s the kind of talent the Kings would never have a chance of getting in free agency. It will be a chancy deal for a new front office to make, but it would be worth the risk, to me.
Amick: Man, I knew I could count on you to bring that Kings fire, DA. If anyone missed it, our Hall of Famer made this spirited Sacramento argument when we last discussed the Simmons situation in early September here. Yet as was the case then, sources tell me the Kings have been determined to see what this current group looks like early on this regular season and haven’t revisited the Simmons situation since the two teams spoke months ago.
As I mentioned then, it’s worth highlighting the fascinating front office relationship dynamics that would be in play if the Kings ever change their stance: Second-year general manager Monte McNair was an understudy of Morey’s during their time together in Houston and still has a very good rapport with him. Ditto for Sachin Gupta, who — in addition to being credited as the creator of the aforementioned ESPN trade machine — recently took over the Timberwolves’ front office after the abrupt dismissal of Gersson Rosas last month. Gupta, who could conceivably improve his chances of keeping the job for the long haul by landing Simmons, headed Morey’s analytics team from 2006 to 2013.
Like San Antonio, Cleveland is another team with known interest where — at least for now — the roster appears to lack the star power to get it done. Unless, that is, you’re willing to construct a deal centered on all of your young talent and first rounders.
Say, Dejounte Murray, Lonnie Walker IV and a bevy of picks from the Spurs, or Colin Sexton, Darius Garland, Isaac Okoro and a bevy of picks from the Cavs? Then, maybe — just maybe — there’d be some traction there. There has been chatter around the league about a Trail Blazers possibility not involving Lillard — a CJ McCollum/Robert Covington/picks kind of thing — but that obviously hasn’t come to fruition either.
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