The Penn State Child-Sex Abuse Scandal Thread...Hammer dropped on PSU...sanctions galore.

[lb81986]

Ok...so after reading some of the responses and viewpoints, I actually take some of my comments back. First, I didn't realize McQuery was 28 at the time. I figured he was younger, still indecisive, and still subject to "Penn State Football" mentality. But at 28, you have to expect more. But I do think the culture and environment he was in made it very tough to act. I said I put little blame on him, but ya'll are right, he deserves blame for not stepping up and being bigger than the system. But don't get it twist. Joe Pa deserve a bunch of blame. All the higher ups in Penn State deserve it. Because they all knew, and they decide to protect their interests, over doing what was right. The whole thing is crazy because the list goes so far of people who should've or could've acted or had responsibility to act, to prevent this whole thing. It just shows how powerful the Penn State culture really is.

 

[af1 1982]

Originally Posted by psk2310

Originally Posted by sillyputty

When Sandusky goes to prison he won't be alive for long


They HATE child molesters in there. 

I don't think it's even going to get that far. I think he'll commit "suicide" in the next several weeks or so.  

  

Co-sign, I believe he will take the cowards way out. Are there any laws to prevent people from doing this?
But, if he does live to make it there, he WILL get eaten alive. 

 

[i am knowledge]

He's not going to kill himself. Someone else will kill him and make it look like suicide.

Had the DA disappearance not of happened, I may feel differently. But this situation is shady as hell.

 

[Johnny_Cakes]

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Interim PennSt Prez says the decision on McQueary to be placed on indefinite administrative leave was made by he and the AD.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

New story from SI.com's Michael McCann. Link here.

The public reaction to the Penn State scandal deservedly shows outrage for the heinous nature of the crimes allegedly committed by Jerry Sandusky and the shockingly ineffectual, perplexing and contradictory responses alleged of Joe Paterno and Mike McQueary, among others, in connection to the case. As I discussed on Wednesday, Paterno and McQueary both face the possibility of criminal charges and civil liability if they covered up criminal activity or knowingly lied to the grand jury. Former Penn State athletic director Tim Curley and former senior vice president of business and finance Gary Schultz have already been charged with crimes, and Penn State as an institution is highly vulnerable to civil lawsuits brought by Sandusky's alleged victims.
It should be acknowledged that the public reaction, and accompanying commentaries, are largely based on a grand jury's findings of fact, also known as a grand jury presentment. What exactly is this document, and does it paint a complete, verified picture of what transpired?

The grand jury's findings of fact represent how 23 men and women, who were convened by the Pennsylvania government to investigate potential criminal wrongdoing of Sandusky and those who purportedly enabled him, ultimately viewed the evidence and sworn testimony presented to them. In developing their findings of fact, the grand jurors were not tasked with deciding, beyond a reasonable doubt, that someone had committed a crime. Instead their duty was to investigate and simply determine if enough evidence existed for prosecutors to charge someone with a crime.

A grand jury proceeding is completely unlike a trial you see on television. You won't, in fact, be able to see a grand jury proceeding on television, or even read media accounts of what takes place. The proceeding is conducted entirely in secret. There is no public mention of anything related to the proceeding, including the proceeding's very existence. Grand jurors and prosecutors swear to secrecy; only persons subpoenaed to testify can reveal that they testified.

Grand jury proceedings are also different from trials in that they are unabashedly one-sided. They are run by prosecutors, who select which evidence to present and which witnesses to call to testify. Grand juries themselves can subpoena documents, but persons who may face criminal charges because of the proceedings have no right to challenge the implicating evidence, to offer exonerating evidence or to confront those who implicate them. Their attorneys are also barred from participating, though in Pennsylvania -- unlike in federal grand juries -- witnesses can bring attorneys to the proceeding and obtain advice from them.

Statements made by grand jury witnesses should be believed, because knowingly lying under oath to a grand jury constitutes perjury. But unlike in a trial, where lawyers for both sides can question witnesses, witnesses in grand jury proceedings are only able to answer questions asked by prosecutors. Choice of questions obviously impacts the kind of information, and depth of information, available for a factual record.

What does this mean? The findings of fact that we have all read and rightfully found repulsive offer a narrative that does not tell a complete story. That is especially true of the purported enablers of Sandusky, as they were not targets of the proceedings. Among the benefits of a trial is that from that forum we learn new facts and discover that certain assumptions are incorrect.

None of this is to say the popular view of Paterno will improve if Sandusky, or others implicated by the scandal, go to trial. In fact, a trial may raise new facts that cause us to view Paterno in a worse light, especially if he knew, or had reason to know, prior to the 2002 incident that Sandusky was a child predator. Along those lines, the circumstances of Sandusky's retirement as a successful 55-year-old coach in 1999 are clearly suspicious. The same is true of the baffling decision to allow Sandusky to remain affiliated with the school as a professor emeritus (with access to the football's team facilities, among other resources) until as late as last week. Sandusky somehow remained a part of the Penn State family despite repeated allegations that he committed sexual abuse on campus.

A trial, however, could clarify a number of excerpts from the statement of facts that have attracted a great deal of attention over the past week. Foremost, we may learn what McQueary actually told Paterno, whose grotesquely opaque description of a boy being raped in a shower as "something of a sexual nature" suggests that Paterno either did not know all of the details or intentionally withheld them. There is a big difference -- legally and morally -- between not knowing and not sharing.

A trial could also allow Paterno to answer questions from his attorney under direct examination. Under direct, Paterno could explain himself in ways that he was probably unable to in the grand jury proceeding, where his lawyer could not ask him questions. Paterno may volunteer additional details that were not relevant to the questions asked of him during the grand jury proceedings, but that are nonetheless meaningful for understanding his questionable choices. For example, he could describe in detail what he reported and what efforts, if any, he made to follow up.

We still have much to learn about what happened at Penn State and the relationship between the school, its officials and Sandusky. Sadly, the story will probably only get much worse as the legal process develops. But we may learn new pieces of information that reshape how we assign blame and how we reconcile what appears to be immoral, almost inhuman decision-making by those we thought to be worthy of our respect and admiration.

Michael McCann is a sports law professor and Sports Law Institute director at Vermont Law School and the distinguished visiting Hall of Fame Professor of Law at Mississippi College School of Law. He also serves as NBA TV's On-Air Legal Analyst.

 

[dathbgboy]

Earlier allegation

Two months ago, state police at Rockview in Centre County began calling witnesses to a May 1998 report by Penn State University police detailing an earlier allegation of inappropriate contact against Sandusky by another boy.

According to several sources, that boy, who was 12 at the time, alleged he and Sandusky were showering in the football building on Penn State’s campus when the incident took place.

The boy’s mother told The Patriot-News she was specifically instructed by state police at Rockview not to speak with a reporter. Her name is being withheld by The Patriot-News to protect the identity of her son.

No charges were ever filed against Sandusky.

According to sources close to the investigation, the boy told police in 1998 that Sandusky had showered with him in a locker room of the Lasch Building — home to the football program — during a tour. The boy claimed Sandusky washed his body during the shower, sources said.

As part of the May 1998 investigation, police had the boy’s mother call Sandusky to her State College home and confront him while they hid in another room, according to sources. 

Another boy, now an adult in the armed forces, was named as a witness in the 1998 Penn State police report and has been contacted by state police, his wife confirmed.

When reached by phone, his mother said she took her son to Penn State police for questioning in 1998 but didn’t listen to the interview. She said she never asked her son what happened.

Retired Penn State Police Officer Ron Schreffler handled the 1998 case. When approached recently, Schreffler said he couldn’t comment and asked a reporter, “How did you see that report?

 

[noblekane]

Originally Posted by psk2310

Originally Posted by sillyputty

When Sandusky goes to prison he won't be alive for long


They HATE child molesters in there. 

I don't think it's even going to get that far. I think he'll commit "suicide" in the next several weeks or so.  

  

naw i think someone will murder him mob style.....

 

[5am6oody72]

Rivals and 24/7 writers have all shot down the story Ah Chag is selling. 
Said the kid is lying and is trying to use this situation for his own gain.

[font=verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Word, I'll take it down then.[/font]

 

[stillin729]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

af1 & Still, or anyone currently associate w. Penn State.....why are people playing the sympathy card w/ Paterno? I don't get it.

You have to understand what he means to Penn Staters, I totally understand the outrage that he didn't stop this because he has more power than Curley, Spanier and Schultz combined. I am very outraged, I still can't even believe all this and right now unless something new comes out one person we had great admiration for and almost love for the man is questioned now, I know I'll never look at him in the same light. Penn State students and alumni are almost feeling like we are in a nightmare but as time passes we all realize to stop thinking with our emotions and think with the knowledge of this horrid scandal.I'm telling you right now that 2000 students were out "rioting" which means about 43000 were at home and trust me when I say the overwhelming majority agree he needed to be fired and was 110% wrong for what he did which will be his legacy but anyone who has long ties to PSU realizes he did amazing things for PSU, students and people in general but regardless none of that justifies what he didn't do.

 

[4318michaeljohnson4318]

Originally Posted by af1 1982

Originally Posted by psk2310

Originally Posted by sillyputty

When Sandusky goes to prison he won't be alive for long


They HATE child molesters in there. 

I don't think it's even going to get that far. I think he'll commit "suicide" in the next several weeks or so.  

  

Co-sign, I believe he will take the cowards way out. Are there any laws to prevent people from doing this?
But, if he does live to make it there, he WILL get eaten alive. 

You guys are so silly, you really think he is going to general population?

 

[gunna get it]

Rivals and 24/7 writers have all shot down the story Ah Chag is selling.

Said the kid is lying and is trying to use this situation for his own gain.

 

[philballa09]

Cain eventually put together what appears to be a sugar-coated deal to buy Godfather's Pizza from Pillsbury at the same time that Larry King, the top black Republican fund raiser in Omaha and the center of the Franklin Cover-Up story was stealing money from Franklin Savings.  So,  what appears to be a totally disconnected relationship between Jerry Sandusky and Peter Retzlaff of Paris Corporation, a paper products company is not at all disconnected from Omaha and the William "Willie" Theisen pizza connection with Larry King's pedophile ring there. 

from twitter. for you conspiracy lovers.

GUNNA GET IT wrote:

---

Rivals and 24/7 writers have all shot down the story Ah Chag is selling. 

Said the kid is lying and is trying to use this situation for his own gain.

what a clown

 

[651akathepaul]

Yeah, if Sandusky keeps himself alive long enough to go to prison he will be put in isolation, most likely.

 

[hankmoody]

Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

Rivals and 24/7 writers have all shot down the story Ah Chag is selling.

Said the kid is lying and is trying to use this situation for his own gain.

That's wild.

 

[af1 1982]

Originally Posted by StillIn729

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

af1 & Still, or anyone currently associate w. Penn State.....why are people playing the sympathy card w/ Paterno? I don't get it.

You have to understand what he means to Penn Staters, I totally understand the outrage that he didn't stop this because he has more power than Curley, Spanier and Schultz combined. I am very outraged, I still can't even believe all this and right now unless something new comes out one person we had great admiration for and almost love for the man is questioned now, I know I'll never look at him in the same light. Penn State students and alumni are almost feeling like we are in a nightmare but as time passes we all realize to stop thinking with our emotions and think with the knowledge of this horrid scandal.I'm telling you right now that 2000 students were out "rioting" which means about 43000 were at home and trust me when I say the overwhelming majority agree he needed to be fired and was 110% wrong for what he did which will be his legacy but anyone who has long ties to PSU realizes he did amazing things for PSU, students and people in general but regardless none of that justifies what he didn't do.

I think my post about my debate with psk pretty much sums it up. It's the emotional attachment. And I completely agree with Stillin that as time goes on, we will be detached from this and start to think more logically. Everyone is still in a complete state of shock.
And a majority of the people if not all of the "rioters" completely understand that he %$!+#% up and deserves blame. It's the fact that he was fired, the way he was fired, that mcqueary is still employed, the one more game ##%%!**$ and that he didn't get a chance to explain himself that people were "rioting" about. And I think that is what people fail to realize because the media painted a picture of the riots in a way that would be most appealing to the general public.

The bolded statement pretty much sums it up. I hate to play this card and I hate to make it seem like only penn staters understand, but you really have to have long ties to the school to truly get a grasp of it. The money he contributed is nothing compared to what he did with his values. Penn State's famous "Success with Honor" is largely in part to his personal GPA requirements of his players. The values he instilled on his players spilled over to the entire school. I can go on and on about the different stuff he did but you just have to be here.

Saying Joe Paterno is second to Jesus Christ in Happy Valley is an understatement.

 

[gambit215]

the heckling this school will hear on the road...............................................

 

[af1 1982]

Originally Posted by gambit215

the heckling this school will hear on the road...............................................

I haven't even thought about it. But the schools we go to are going to look bad. Imagine a student section poking fun at the child abuse allegations. smh. 

 

[10027]

Originally Posted by af1 1982

Originally Posted by gambit215

the heckling this school will hear on the road...............................................

I haven't even thought about it. But the schools we go to are going to look bad. Imagine a student section poking fun at the child abuse allegations. smh. 

Yeah, almost as bad as a student section that riots to support child-rape enablers....
Actually, not even close to as bad.

 

[gambit215]

Originally Posted by af1 1982

Originally Posted by gambit215

the heckling this school will hear on the road...............................................

I haven't even thought about it. But the schools we go to are going to look bad. Imagine a student section poking fun at the child abuse allegations. smh. 

Imagine a student body starting a riot over  a coach who knew someone was molesting kids

 

[Jordan8]

Originally Posted by AndrewLuck

It's just apparent that the community of Penn State just doesn't get it. Football is just so serious out there, it's plain disgusting.

Dude you're asking people to change their lives. 
Its easy to log in and type empathy but thousands of innocent lives are altered because of this. Dudes Senior day/Season will forever be synonymous with the worst scandal in the history of college sports. I would be hella frustrated/angered if Im a senior on that team putting in 4-5 years of blood,sweat & tears and have it all taken away because of this. 

And before you dweebs start spazzing Im in no way blaming the victims they are the ones who suffered the most. 

The whole situation is terrible but understand people who had nothing to do with this are being punished as well. And non-targeted frustration/anger is the result.

And dont let me get started on how they waited til Paterno beat the black guys record to leak this info but thats another thread. 

 

[stillin729]

Originally Posted by 10027

Originally Posted by af1 1982

Originally Posted by gambit215

the heckling this school will hear on the road...............................................

I haven't even thought about it. But the schools we go to are going to look bad. Imagine a student section poking fun at the child abuse allegations. smh. 

Yeah, almost as bad as a student section that riots to support child-rape enablers....
Actually, not even close to as bad.

you are a moron; way to generalization 2,000 people out of 45,000

 

[af1 1982]

Stillin, don't even bother. They obviously have no basic math skills. They're eating up what the media is telling them.

Approximately 4.4% of the student population was "rioting". Of the 2000 that were "rioting" , probably no more than 100 were causing violence. That makes .2% of the entire student body. Maybe that will put some perspective on it.

And I just saw on ESPN that they are going to cover the candlelight vigil tonight. It was reported that we are expecting at least 10,000 students.

Compare 10,000 to 2,000 to those that are not mathematically aware.

 

[newbs24]

So McQuerry is in protective custody??

I would feed that coward to the wolves

 

[10027]

Originally Posted by StillIn729

Originally Posted by 10027

Originally Posted by af1 1982

I haven't even thought about it. But the schools we go to are going to look bad. Imagine a student section poking fun at the child abuse allegations. smh. 

Yeah, almost as bad as a student section that riots to support child-rape enablers....
Actually, not even close to as bad.

you are a moron; way to generalization 2,000 people out of 45,000

It might not be fair, but that's what people all over the country are doing right now.  Why aren't those 43,000 standing up and telling the rest that what they're doing is wrong?
If you let those 2000 become the voice of the school, that's your fault too...

 

[af1 1982]

Originally Posted by 10027

Originally Posted by StillIn729

Originally Posted by 10027

Yeah, almost as bad as a student section that riots to support child-rape enablers....
Actually, not even close to as bad.

you are a moron; way to generalization 2,000 people out of 45,000

It might not be fair, but that's what people all over the country are doing right now.  Why aren't those 43,000 standing up and telling the rest that what they're doing is wrong?
If you let those 2000 become the voice of the school, that's your fault too...

Follow tonight's vigil. Tonight is our chance to speak.