THEE OFFICIAL 2019-2020 NBA OFFSEASON THREAD: VICTORY LAP

Which team is most overrated? (Pick two)

  • Clippers

  • Celtics

  • Seventy Sixers

  • Bucks

  • Rockets

  • Nuggets

  • Jazz

  • Nets

  • Warriors

  • Pacers

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JD617 said:
Some people just have no ability to separate team perfomance from individual performance in team sports. Probably my biggest pet peeve. Some of the Brady stuff is so OD. And I'm a Pats fan saying this.
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Kobe gets over credited for his 5 rings.

Like he didn’t play with Shaq, MVP and 3x Finals mvp.

Paul Gasol was also one the best PF during Kobe’s 2 rings

Kobe was a good player, but Lakers fans are tripping when they try to put him into that MJ level of greatness.

Even that Lebron level of greatness.

Lebron is a 4x MVP :{
 
QU!K said:
Kobe gets over credited for his 5 rings.

Like he didn’t play with Shaq, MVP and 3x Finals mvp.

Paul Gasol was also one the best PF during Kobe’s 2 rings

Kobe was a good player, but Lakers fans are tripping when they try to put him into that MJ level of greatness.

Even that Lebron level of greatness.

Lebron is a 4x MVP :smh:
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You're right, everyone gives Kobe way too much credit for those first 3 rings! :{
 
wavycrocket said:
I know you trollin...but this is a real thing :lol:. People think Rookie Scottie Pippen In 87 was the same one in 92 :lol:.

All context has been lost. Like Mike coming off an injury and losing to the 67 win Larry Bird Celtics in his 1st playoff appearance, then the 60 something win Bucs that was atop the east in his next one.

Mike literally did this when Pippen came to win his 1st series.

BC087908-AFB5-49BB-9AAF-041DF80BE322.png


While THIS was happening to a 22 year old Scottie.

E0836EC2-A34E-46A0-BD67-C3CBE637CCF0.gif


But bad faith arguments, hot takes & Narratives > Context.
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To be fair, people hold LeBron losing in the Finals when he was 22 against him.
 
atlsfinest said:
To be fair, people hold LeBron losing in the Finals when he was 22 against him.
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I don’t. At all. Actually think that’s one of Bron’s finer moments (that Detroit game is what you point to as all time greatness)....but on the converse...he’s elevated for getting there post 2010 with stacked rosters in a weak East and losing the majority of the time. So it balances out. End of the day....he still 3-6 :emoji_laughing:

:emoji_middle_finger: Bron.
 
I always give Lebron credit for getting to the Finals at such a young age. Problem is I can count on 1 hand the amount of HOF'ers he faced in their prime during his Final runs.

MJ faced 1-2 HOF'ers in their prime practically in every series. Top 20 players of all time crowd.
 
equality said:
The more I see people putting anyone over MJ the older I feel. I may need to retire from online basketball discussions in a few years
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It’s pretty awful. You got that crowd that acts like everyone MJ played against looked like Mark Price. Like Dennis Rodman, Alvin Robertson, Dominique Wilkins, Ron Harper and Joe Dumars didn’t exist.
 
equality said:
The more I see people putting anyone over MJ the older I feel. I may need to retire from online basketball discussions in a few years
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Even people putting Kobe on the same level as MJ is ridiculous.

Larry Bird called MJ god.
 
No ones touching black cat

The combination of peak dominance, achievements, resume is just OD.

Like, bruh. He was fake.



Lol at anyone getting to 6 chips 5MVPS a DPoy a million All star and all nba selections with a 30ppg scoring average. No way.

MJ

Kareem

Others
 
I'm with Osh when it comes to the GOAT convo.

osh kosh bosh said:
If you want to go resume?

Kareem's is better.

Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (May 15, 1995)[27]
College:
Player of the Year (1967, 1969)
Three-time First Team All-American (1967–69)
Three-time NCAA champion (1967–69)
Most Outstanding Player in NCAA Tournament (1967–69)
Naismith College Player of the Year (1969)
National Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame (2007)[28]

National Basketball Association:
Rookie of the Year (1970)
Six-time NBA champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987–88)
NBA MVP (1971–72, 1974, 1976–77, 1980)
Sporting News NBA MVP (1971–72, 1974, 1976–77, 1980)
Finals MVP (1971, 1985)
Sports Illustrated magazine's "Sportsman of the Year" (1985)
One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996)
First player in NBA history to play 20 seasons



Oh and that guy Russel, the guy who the finals MVP is named after, his resume is better.

Career highlights and awards

11× NBA champion (1957, 1959–1966, 1968–1969)
5× NBA Most Valuable Player (1958, 1961–1963, 1965)
5× NBA rebounding champion (1957–1959, 1964–1965)
12× NBA All-Star (1958–1969)
3× All-NBA First Team (1959, 1963, 1965)
8× All-NBA Second Team (1958, 1960–1962, 1964, 1966–1968)
NBA All-Defensive First Team (1969)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1963)
NBA 35th Anniversary Team
NBA 25th Anniversary Team
NBA 50th Anniversary Team
#6 Retired by Boston Celtics
2× NCAA champion (1955–1956)
NCAA Basketball Tournament MOP (1955)
Career statistics

How about statistical dominance.

Wilt's numbers are better.
NBA scoring records
Sign commemorating Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point game at Hershey, Pennsylvania

NBA Record - Most Points Per Game in a season (50.4 in the 1961-62 season)

Chamberlain also holds the next two spots with 44.8 in 1962-63 and 38.4 in 1960-61.

NBA Record - Most Points in a season (4,029 in 1961-62)

Chamberlain holds the next highest with 3,586 in 1960-61

NBA Record - Most Points Scored in a Game (100 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)
NBA Record - Most Points Scored in a Half (59 in the 2nd half vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)
NBA Record - Most 50 Point Games in a season (45 in 1961-62)

Chamberlain holds the next most with 30 in 1962-63. No other player has had more than 10. Only Michael Jordan (39 including playoffs) and Kobe Bryant (25 including playoffs) have more than 20 in their careers.

NBA Record - Most 40 Point Games in a season (63 in 1961-62)

Chamberlain holds the next most with 52 in 1962-63. Michael Jordan is third with 37 in 1986-87.

NBA Record - Most Consecutive Seasons Leading League in Points Per Game (7)

Record shared with Michael Jordan.

NBA Record - Most Career Regular Season 60 Point Games (32)

Kobe Bryant is second with 5.

NBA Record - Most Career Regular Season 50 Point Games (118)

Michael Jordan is second with 31.

NBA Record - Most Career Regular Season 40 Point Games (271)[10]

Michael Jordan is second with 173.

NBA Record - Most Consecutive 50 Point Games (7 from December 16-29, 1961)

Chamberlain also holds the next three longest streaks with 6 in 1962, and 5 in 1961 and 1962.

NBA Record - Most Consecutive 40 Point Games (14 from December 8-30, 1961 and January 11-February 1, 1962)

Chamberlain also has the next most with 10 from November 9-25, 1962.

NBA Record - Most Consecutive 30 Point Games (65 from November 4, 1961-February 22, 1962)

Chamberlain holds the next two longest streaks with 31 in 1962 and 25 in 1960.

NBA Record - Most Consecutive 20 Point Games (126 from October 19, 1961-January 19, 1963)

Chamberlain holds the next most with 92 from February 26, 1963-March 18, 1964.

NBA Record - Most points per game by a rookie (37.6 in 1959-60)
NBA Record - Most points by a rookie (2,707 in 1959-60)
NBA Record - Most points by a rookie in a game (58 on January 25, 1960 and February 21, 1960)
NBA Record - Fewest Games Played to Reach 20,000 Points (499, achieved in 1966)

Michael Jordan, at 620 games, took the second fewest games.

NBA Record - Fewest Games Played to Reach 25,000 Points (691, achieved on February 23, 1968 against the Detroit Pistons)

Michael Jordan, at 782 games, took the second fewest games.

NBA Record - Fewest Games Played to Reach 30,000 Points (941, achieved on February 16, 1972 against the Phoenix Suns)
NBA Record - Most consecutive seasons leading the league in field goals made (7 from 1959-60 through 1965-66)

Shared with Michael Jordan

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Made in a season (1,597 in 1961-62)

Chamberlain holds the next 3 spots with 1,463 in 1962-63, 1,251 in 1960-61, and 1,204 in 1963-64

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Attempted in a season (3,159 in 1961-62)

Chamberlain holds the next four highest with 2,770, 2,457, 2,311, and 2,298.

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Made in a Game (36 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)

Chamberlain holds the next highest with 31, and is tied with Rick Barry at third with 30

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Attempted in a Game (63 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)

Chamberlain holds the next two most with 62 and 60.

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Made in a Half (22 in the 2nd half vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)
NBA Record - Most Field Goals Attempted in a Half (37 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962 (2nd half)
NBA Record - Most Field Goals Attempted in a Quarter (21 in the 4th quarter vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)
NBA Record - Most Free Throws Made in a Game (28 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)

Record shared with Adrian Dantley

NBA Record - Most seasons leading the NBA in free throw attempts (9)
NBA Record - Most consecutive seasons leading the NBA in free throw attempts (6 from 1959-60 through 1964-65)
NBA Record - Most Free Throws Attempted in a season (1,363 in 1961-62)

Chamberlain also holds the next four spots with 1,113, 1,054, 1,016, and 991.

NBA Playoff Record - Most points by a rookie in a game (53 vs. the Syracuse Nationals on March 14, 1960)

Pulled down a rookie playoff record 35 rebounds in the same game.
Chamberlain also scored 50 as a rookie against the Boston Celtics on March 22, 1960.

NBA Playoff Record - Most field goals in a seven game series (113 vs. the St. Louis Hawks in 1964)
NBA Playoff Record - Most field goals in a game (24 vs. the Syracuse Nationals on March 14, 1960)

Record shared with John Havlicek and Michael Jordan

NBA Playoff Record - Most field goal attempts in a game (48 vs. the Syracuse Nationals on March 22, 1962)

Record shared with Rick Barry

NBA Playoff Record - Most field goal attempts in a half (25 vs. the Syracuse Nationals on March 22, 1962)

Record shared with Elgin Baylor and Michael Jordan

NBA Playoff Record - Most field goal attempts in a three game series (104 vs. the Syracuse Nationals in 1960)
NBA Playoff Record - Most field goal attempts in a five game series (159 vs. the Syracuse Nationals in 1962)
NBA All-Star Game Record - Points in a game (42 in 1962)
NBA All-Star Game Record - Field goals in a game (17 in 1962)

Record shared with Michael Jordan and Kevin Garnett

NBA All-Star Game Record - Field goals in a half (10 in 1962)
NBA All-Star Game Record - Free throw attempts in a game (16 in 1962)

Chamberlain also holds the second most attempts in an All-Star Game with 15 in 1960.

Other selected scoring facts

2nd highest career scoring average (30.07) — record held by Michael Jordan
2nd most free throws made in a season (835 in 1961-62) — record held by Jerry West
2nd most free throws attempted in a Game (34 vs. the St. Louis Hawks on February 22, 1962) — record held by Dwight Howard

Chamberlain also holds third place with 32 on March 2, 1962.

2nd most points in an NBA All-Star Game half (23 in 1962) — record held by Glen Rice; 2nd place shared with Tom Chambers

NBA rebounding records

See also: List of National Basketball Association top individual rebounding season averages
See also: List of National Basketball Association top rookie rebounding averages
See also: List of National Basketball Association players with most rebounds in a game

NBA Record - Career Total Rebounds (23,924)
NBA Record - Career Rebounds Per Game (22.9)
NBA Record - Most seasons leading the league in rebounds (11)
NBA Record - Most seasons with 1,000 or more rebounds (13)
NBA Record - Rebounds Per Game in a season (27.2)

Chamberlain also holds the next two highest averages with 27.0 in 1959-60 and 25.7 in 1961-62)
Chamberlain and Bill Russell occupy the top 18 spots on this list (9 each).

NBA Record - Total Rebounds in a season (2,149 in 1960-1961)

Chamberlain also holds the next six highest totals.

NBA Record - Rebounds in a game (55, Philadelphia Warriors vs. Boston Celtics, November 24, 1960)

Besides Bill Russell (11 times, including 3 playoff games, max of 51) only Nate Thurmond (42) and Jerry Lucas (40) have ever gotten at least 40.

NBA Record - Most rebounds per game by a rookie in a season (27.0)
NBA Record - Most rebounds by a rookie in a season (1,941)
NBA Record - Most rebounds by a rookie in a game (45 on February 6, 1960)

Chamberlain, as a rookie, also grabbed 43 rebounds in one game, 42 in two others, and 40 in another.

NBA Playoff Record - Most rebounds in a playoff game (41 against the Boston Celtics, on April 5, 1967).

Game 3 victory in the Eastern Division finals.

NBA Playoff Record - Most rebounds in a half (26 against the San Francisco Warriors on April 16, 1967)

Also an NBA Finals record.

NBA Playoff Record - Highest rebounding average in a playoff series (32.0 in a 5-game series against the Boston Celtics in 1967).
NBA Playoff Record - Most rebounds in a 5-game playoff series (160 against the Boston Celtics in 1967).
NBA Playoff Record - Most rebounds in a 6-game playoff series (171 against the San Francisco Warriors in 1967).

Also an NBA Finals record for a 6-game series.

NBA Playoff Record - Most rebounds in a 7-game playoff series (220 against the Boston Celtics in 1965).
NBA Playoff Record - Most rebounds by a rookie in a game (35 against the Boston Celtics on March 22, 1960)

Scored a then-playoff record 53 points (still a rookie record) in the same game (a Game 5 victory).

NBA All-Star Game Record - Most career rebounds in the NBA All-Star game (197).
NBA All-Star Game Record - Most rebounds in a half (16 in 1960).

Record shared with Bob Pettit

Other selected rebound facts

2nd most consecutive seasons with 1,000+ rebounds (10) — record held by Bill Russell
2nd most rebounds in a half (31 vs. the Boston Celtics on November 24, 1960) — record held by Bill Russell
2nd most rebounds in a quarter (17 vs. the Syracuse Nationals on February 5, 1960) — record held by Nate Thurmond, 2nd place is shared with three performances by Bill Russell
2nd most rebounds in a 3-game NBA Playoff series (69 vs. the Syracuse Nationals in 1961) — record held by Bill Russell
2nd most rebounds in a 4-game NBA Playoff series (106 vs. the Cincinnati Royals in 1967) — record held by Bill Russell
2nd most consecutive games 20+ rebounds in the NBA Finals (12 over a series of games in the 1964, 1967, and 1969 finals) — record held by Bill Russell
2nd most consecutive games 30+ rebounds in the NBA Finals (2 in 1967 finals, 2 in 1969 finals) — record held by Bill Russell; 2nd place is also shared by Bill Russell
2nd most rebounds in a 5-game NBA Finals (vs. Boston Celtics in 1967) — record held by Bill Russell
2nd most rebounds in a 7-game NBA Finals (vs. Boston Celtics in 1969) — record held by Bill Russell
3rd highest rebounding average in an NBA Finals series (28.5 in 1967) — first two spots held by Bill Russell
Chamberlain is the only player to grab more than 2,000 rebounds in a single season: 2,149 rebounds in the 1960-61 season and 2,052 in 1961-62.

Chamberlain's 1961-62 season stat line: 4,029 points (50.4 ppg) and 2,052 rebounds (25.7 rpg).

NBA versatility record

NBA Record - Most consecutive triple-doubles (9) (March 8–20, 1968)

Other selected versatility facts

Only player in NBA history to record a double-triple-double (20+ of any category)

On February 2, 1968 against the Detroit Pistons, he logged 22 points, 25 rebounds and 21 assists.[11]

Only player in NBA history to record a quadruple double-double (meaning two of either 40 points, 40 rebounds, or 40 assists in a single game) (A feat he performed 5 times).

On November 4, 1959, Chamberlain, in his third game in the NBA, scored 41 points and grabbed a then-rookie record 40 rebounds against the Syracuse Nationals.
On January 15, 1960, Chamberlain, as a rookie, scored 44 points and grabbed 42 rebounds against the Boston Celtics.
On January 25, 1960, Chamberlain, as a rookie, scored an NBA rookie record 58 points and grabbed 42 rebounds against the Detroit Pistons.
On February 6, 1960, Chamberlain, as a rookie, scored 44 points and grabbed an NBA rookie record 45 rebounds against the Detroit Pistons.
On December 8, 1961, Chamberlain scored a then-record 78 points and collected 43 rebounds against the Los Angeles Lakers.

After critics called him a one-dimensional (or even selfish) player, Chamberlain led the league in total assists the next season, 1967–68, with 702 assists (he did not lead the league in assists per game).

NBA durability records

NBA Record - Most seasons leading NBA in minutes played (8)
NBA Record - Most consecutive seasons leading NBA in minutes played (5, from 1959-60 through 1963-64)
NBA Record - Most career minutes played per game (45.8)

Bill Russell is second at 42.3

NBA Record - Most minutes played in a season (3,882 in 1961-62)

Chamberlain also holds the next four most with 3,836 in 1967-68, 3,806 in 1962-63, 3,773 in 1960-61, and 3,737 in 1965-66

NBA Record - Most minutes played per game for a season (48.53 in 1961-62)

Chamberlain holds the top 7 spots in this category
Chamberlain's 3,882 minutes played out of the team's possible 3,890 left an average of six seconds of rest per game.
A regulation NBA basketball game is 48 minutes long.

NBA Record - Most complete games in a season (79 out of 80 games in 1961-62)
NBA Record - Most consecutive complete games in a season (47 in 1961-62)
NBA Playoff Record - Highest average minutes per game in a playoff series (49.33 (296/6) against the New York Knicks in 1968)
NBA Playoff Record - Most minutes played in a three game series (144 against the Syracuse Nationals in 1961)
NBA Playoff Record - Most minutes played in a four game series (195 against the Cincinnati Royals in 1965 and the Atlanta Hawks in 1970)

Record shared with Jerry Lucas and Oscar Robertson.

NBA Playoff Record - Most minutes played in a six game series (296 against the New York Knicks in 1968)
NBA Finals Record - Most minutes played in a five game series (240 against the New York Knicks in 1973)
Chamberlain never fouled out of a regular season or playoff game in his 14 years in the NBA. His career average was only 2 fouls per game, despite having averaged 45.8 minutes per game over his career. His fouls per 36 minutes (a stat used to compare players that average vastly different minutes) was a remarkable 1.6 per game.[1]

NBA accuracy records

See also: List of National Basketball Association top individual field goal percentage seasons

NBA Record - Most consecutive seasons leading NBA in field goal percentage (5, from 1964-65 through 1968-69)

Tied with Shaquille O'Neal

NBA Record - Highest Field Goal Percentage in a season (72.7% in 1972-73)

Chamberlain also holds the second highest percentage with 68.3% in 1966-67

NBA Record - Most consecutive field goals (35 from February 17-28, 1967)
NBA Record - Most field goals in a game without a miss (18, Philadelphia 76ers vs. the Baltimore Bullets on February 24, 1967)

Chamberlain also holds the next two most with 16 (March 19, 1967) and 15 (January 20, 1967)

NBA Record - most free-throws missed in a single season (578 in the 1967–68 season)[12]

Chamberlain also missed the second most free throws in a single season at 528 in the 1961–62 season.

NBA Record - Most free throws missed in a game (22, vs. Seattle SuperSonics, December 1, 1967)
NBA Record - Most free throws missed in a half (12, vs. Syracuse Nationals, November 17, 1960)
NBA Playoff Record - Most free throws missed in a game (17, vs. Boston Celtics, April 12, 1966)
NBA Playoff Record - Most free throws missed in a half (12, vs. Boston Celtics, April 12, 1966)

Other selected accuracy facts

2nd most seasons leading NBA in field goal percentage (9) record held by Shaquille O'Neal (10)
2nd most free throws attempted in a game with none made (10 vs. the Detroit Pistons on 11/04/1960) — record held by Shaquille O'Neal (11) (12/08/2000)
3rd most free throws attempted in a game with none made (9 at the St. Louis Hawks on February 19, 1967)
3rd lowest career free throw percentage in NBA history (minimum 1200 attempts) record held by Ben Wallace

How about anecdotal evidence, making, teammates better? Magic and Bird 88, and 87 Celtics are some of the best offenses in the history of the league, their passing was unrivaled, with Bird and Magic you were practically locked in to win 50 games.

You can believe that Jordan is the GOAT, he has as strong a case as anyone but to pretend as if Kareem, Russel, Bird, Wilt, Magic don't have very strong cases for the GOAT is just ignorant.

Jordan is unquestionably the greatest perimeter scorer in the history of the league, other than that everything else is up for debate.
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osh kosh bosh said:
The reality is there are 7 guys who you can make a plausible argument for being the greatest player who ever lived.

Bill Russel
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
LeBron James


Saying that one is significantly better than another is disingenuous and hair splitting, but nobody likes to hear this, the culture now; they demand everything to be definitive, black and white, when in reality it's all shades of grey.

Not as satisfying, but more accurate.
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osh kosh bosh said:
His undisputed GOAT status just comes from IMO being born at the perfect time with the perfect rule set that maximized his skills.

He and the bulls reached their primes right as the 80's powera were declining, then expansion hit at thinned out the talent pool, basically leaving him no real challengers. Also the illegal defense rules plus hand checking, plus low volume 3 point shoooting were perfect for Jordan skills.

Don't get me wrong, I think MJ could be the GOAT. I just don't think it's so obvious or a lock. I think you could make an argument for like 6 other people


People complain about the Rules benifitting Steph, or they benefited Wilt but imo they benefited Jordan just as much.
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osh kosh bosh said:
Honestly so much of this debate depends on the rule set we're playing with.


No 3 point line and small lane?
Give me a center who dominates the paint; Russel, Shaq or Wilt.

No 3 point line and expanded lane?
Give me a dude who can be hyper efficient with a wide lane; Kareem.

3 point line + Hand checking + no illegal defense?
Give the greatest I isolation scorer ever; Jordan.

3 point line + no hand checking + more complex defensive schemes? Give me basketball super computer; Lebron James.
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