THEE OFFICIAL 2019-2020 NBA OFFSEASON THREAD: VICTORY LAP

[freeze]

Shaq’s first year in Miami he played at an MVP level. And that was the last year he did.

We made the right decision picking Bean.

 

[buc em]

These look amazing but how do they feel? I’ve read mixed reviews.

 

[freeze]

If KD played in the 80s-90s when there was no illegal defense, he would put up better numbers than MJ and would probably be the GOAT.

No hate to kds game at all.

I don't think he has that fire tbh with you. He has the skill and every ability you need. But I don't think he has that unquestionable savagery you need to take a chip from mj. He almost singlehandedly gave the series to Houston. Gift wrapped.


Hasn't won without curry.

Can't win without curry.

Curry>>>>>

 

[antidope]

wavycrocket

Legit dumb

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

fun team to watch during those couple yrs. that depth
tmac and yao

Damb, went down a rabbit hole because of this post

Yao's career effectively ended during the series against LAL and initially he said the injury wasn't bad

Rockets applied for an injury exemption which was used to lure Ariza away from the champion Lakers... which opened the door for the Lakers to sign Artest.. totally forgot about that situation.. Ariza and Artest received basically the same contracts

Ariza only played that one year in Houston before getting traded to other teams and then coming back years later

Jump to Artest. In January 2006 he requested a trade which upset his teammates and Bird. Jermaine O'Neal threw shots at him on record. He got traded to the Kings and they made the playoffs for the 9th straight season. That was the last time they've made it! Didn't think it had been that long

After the season he offered to donate his entire salary to keep Bonzi Wells (who balled in the playoffs) and threatened to kill him if he didn't come back. WHAT?

Fast forward a few years later and he's traded to Houston... and you get this exchange with Yao

In response to the trade, Yao Ming was generally positive, but jokingly said that "hopefully he's not fighting anymore and going after a guy in the stands." In response, Artest said, "This is Tracy (McGrady) and Yao's team, you know. I'm not going to take it personal. I understand what Yao said, but I'm still ghetto. That's not going to change. I'm never going to change my culture. Yao has played with a lot of black players, but I don't think he's ever played with a black player that really represents his culture as much as I represent my culture."

Once again: WHAT?

 

[storm2006]

Season is wraps.

While I generally believe that, as I mentioned before I think the draft moving back is a good thing. It means there is still hope for a season (they wouldnt hold a draft before the season had concluded via championship or cancellation).

“You know the craziest part? Ole girl who got her arm bit off and came back to work after 5 days. I I get hurt at TNT, I’m not coming back for 2 or 3 months” - Chuck

 

[buc em]

Will despise that driver for the remainder of his acting career

 

[darthska]

Or Ray. Or Miller. Or Bosh.

Or Irving. Or Love. Or Tristan.

No championship has ever been won by one.

That's not a Lebby defense; it's just a fact that obliterates the corny 'Let me guess, Bron needs more help' BS.

But this entire argument has been had before, dozens of times.

 

[storm2006]

No championship has ever been won by one.

That's not a Lebby defense; it's just a fact that obliterates the corny 'Let me guess, Bron needs more help' BS.

Do you buy into the “Steph (or KD) needs MOAR HELP/HEALTH” narrative?

 

[100027]

Damb, went down a rabbit hole because of this post

Yao's career effectively ended during the series against LAL and initially he said the injury wasn't bad

Rockets applied for an injury exemption which was used to lure Ariza away from the champion Lakers... which opened the door for the Lakers to sign Artest.. totally forgot about that situation.. Ariza and Artest received basically the same contracts

Ariza only played that one year in Houston before getting traded to other teams and then coming back years later

Jump to Artest. In January 2006 he requested a trade which upset his teammates and Bird. Jermaine O'Neal threw shots at him on record. He got traded to the Kings and they made the playoffs for the 9th straight season. That was the last time they've made it! Didn't think it had been that long

After the season he offered to donate his entire salary to keep Bonzi Wells (who balled in the playoffs) and threatened to kill him if he didn't come back. WHAT?

Fast forward a few years later and he's traded to Houston... and you get this exchange with Yao

In response to the trade, Yao Ming was generally positive, but jokingly said that "hopefully he's not fighting anymore and going after a guy in the stands." In response, Artest said, "This is Tracy (McGrady) and Yao's team, you know. I'm not going to take it personal. I understand what Yao said, but I'm still ghetto. That's not going to change. I'm never going to change my culture. Yao has played with a lot of black players, but I don't think he's ever played with a black player that really represents his culture as much as I represent my culture."

Once again: WHAT?

Artest killed it for the Rockets. I do believe that Houston would have beat the Lakers without Yao going down.

 

[100027]

Or Irving. Or Love. Or Tristan.

No championship has ever been won by one.

That's not a Lebby defense; it's just a fact that obliterates the corny 'Let me guess, Bron needs more help' BS.

But this entire argument has been had before, dozens of times.

It’s more just funny that Bron says things like “I’ve never played on a super team” and his fans trying to claim he’s always played with crap, when all of his winning teams have been ultra loaded.

 

[darthska]

Do you buy into the “Steph (or KD) needs MOAR HELP/HEALTH” narrative?

Meaning do I fault them for needing it?

Of course not. Did/do stars need help in order to win it all? Of course. Jordan, Lebbywinks, Shaq, Kobe, hell, Jeter, Sid the Kid, Discount Double Check, Russy Wilson, literally every single championship.

No, I don't fault stars for being on championship squads that featured all world talent that played crucial minutes and made huge plays.

But do I fault KD for joining the already championship team who just beat him and his squad? I wouldn't say 'fault', but I don't view his championship as impressive as, say the 2004 Pistons or 2011 Mavs. Not even close.

Similarly, I don't view Lebby's Heat chips the same as the Cavs one. I know if you look up a list of all championships, they all just count as championships, no different. But if we're assigning championships to individuals like we always do, and we're assigning value to them, those Heat chips are entirely less than the Cavs one. The Heat chips, as we all know, there was all this scheming behind the scenes and stacking the deck. Of course that resulted in an exciting, historical 4 year Finals run, but that Cavs championship was against a team that had just beat them the year prior, and had just set the record for most wins in the regular season. That's different than the Heatles 2.

 

[darthska]

It’s more just funny that Bron says things like “I’ve never played on a super team” and his fans trying to claim he’s always played with crap, when all of his winning teams have been ultra loaded.

When did he say "I've never played on a super team" like you have in quotes there?

And is there honestly even one fan that says he has always played with crap?

And I challenge you to build the argument that the 2007 Cavs Finals team was ultra loaded. Ultra loaded? Let's hear it.

The Heatles were ultra loaded. That Cavs team had no business being in the Finals, hence the sweep. But if you think that they were ultra loaded, like I said, let's hear it.

 

[100027]

There has been a huge talent arms race (and talent influx) for top teams since the Boston Big 3 (taken to another level by the Miami big 3).

With that said—in my lifetime, there have only been two championship teams in my lifetime that were lacking multiple top-tier stars. The Mavs and the Raptors. The 2004 Pistons were underdogs but carried four legitimate all-stars in Billups, Hamilton, Ben and Rasheed.

 

[100027]

When did he say "I've never played on a super team" like you have in quotes there?

And is there honestly even one fan that says he has always played with crap?

And I challenge you to build the argument that the 2007 Cavs Finals team was ultra loaded. Ultra loaded? Let's here it.

The Heatles were ultra loaded. That Cavs team had no business being in the Finals, hence the sweep. But if you think that they were ultra loaded, like I said, let's hear it.

The 2007 Cavs weren't ultra-loaded, they didn't do anything laudable though, they beat a single good team (Pistons run was at its end anyways) in a crap East and then got storched in a Finals they didn't belong in.

 

[darthska]

Thanks. I've literally never seen that before.

"I don't believe I've played for a super team."

Alright, bud. What-the****-ever.

Ish like that is why I don't Stan for buddy. As a basketball fan, I appreciate the freak that he is on the court, no doubt. And even though I mock him for being a player/GM, I appreciate that, too. But stuff like that, and there are other things, those are why I can't go full Stan for him. I'll just remain an appreciative fan who still remembers him flopping all over the place in Miami, pouting at certain times, and now denying he's ever been on a super team. Yes TF you have, dude.

 

[darthska]

The 2007 Cavs weren't ultra-loaded, they didn't do anything laudable though, they beat a single good team in a crap East and then got storched in a Finals they didn't belong in.

Agreed.

 

[darthska]

There has been a huge talent arms race (and talent influx) for top teams since the Boston Big 3 (taken to another level by the Miami big 3).

With that said—in my lifetime, there have only been two championship teams in my lifetime that were lacking multiple top-tier stars. The Mavs and the Raptors. The 2004 Pistons were underdogs but carried four legitimate all-stars in Billups, Hamilton, Ben and Rasheed.

No, totally. If you're mentioning the 04 Pistons because I did earlier, I wasn't mentioning them to try to say that they weren't loaded. Hell yeah they were. I was saying that their successful Finals run was among the most impressive in my life. But yeah, Mavs and Raptors were definitely less stacked and ergo more impressive.

 

[storm2006]

Meaning do I fault them for needing it?

Of course not. Did/do stars need help in order to win it all? Of course. Jordan, Lebbywinks, Shaq, Kobe, hell, Jeter, Sid the Kid, Discount Double Check, Russy Wilson, literally every single championship.

No, I don't fault stars for being on championship squads that featured all world talent that played crucial minutes and made huge plays.

But do I fault KD for joining the already championship team who just beat him and his squad? I wouldn't say 'fault', but I don't view his championship as impressive as, say the 2004 Pistons or 2011 Mavs. Not even close.

Similarly, I don't view Lebby's Heat chips the same as the Cavs one. I know if you look up a list of all championships, they all just count as championships, no different. But if we're assigning championships to individuals like we always do, and we're assigning value to them, those Heat chips are entirely less than the Cavs one. The Heat chips, as we all know, there was all this scheming behind the scenes and stacking the deck. Of course that resulted in an exciting, historical 4 year Finals run, but that Cavs championship was against a team that had just beat them the year prior, and had just set the record for most wins in the regular season. That's different than the Heatles 2.

I agree that a championship is a championship and that it is 100% a team accomplishment. However, it’s pretty interesting that all rings prior the 2012 Heatles were full price but almost everything after then is heavily discounted. Folks talk about KDs rings like they were buy one, get one free

 

[darthska]

I agree that a championship is a championship and that it is 100% a team accomplishment. However, it’s pretty interesting that all rings prior the 2012 Heatles were full price but almost everything after then is heavily discounted. Folks talk about KDs rings like they were buy one, get one free

It's me, I'm folks.

Eff KD's rings, fr fr. I appreciated the Dubs before that. Again, as a basketball fan, I appreciated them. They won one year, set the regular season record, lost, but it was entertaining.

KD ruined that. We can't pretend that one of the GshootersOAT joining a team fresh off 2 Finals runs who just beat him... is as respectable and worthy as all other championships.

Well I can't. It's literally the bottom of all of them for me.

 

[wavycrocket]

There has been a huge talent arms race (and talent influx) for top teams since the Boston Big 3 (taken to another level by the Miami big 3).

With that said—in my lifetime, there have only been two championship teams in my lifetime that were lacking multiple top-tier stars. The Mavs and the Raptors. The 2004 Pistons were underdogs but carried four legitimate all-stars in Billups, Hamilton, Ben and Rasheed.

The 2015 Warriors didn’t have multiple “top tier” stars at the time. They are VERY similar to the warriors. Lowry might end up a HOF, Siakum looks to be on the path of multiple time all star. And guys like Gasol, Ibaka Etc been good players in the league for a long time.

2015 Warriors...Draymond hadn’t made an all star or all nba team yet. Klay first All Star was THAT year.. Iggy was seen as just a rotational player who came over from Denver.

People really forget what that team was, in real time...and how they were viewed. Loved the rewatchable by Bill Simmons on those Warriors team. Rusillo does a great job detailing the sentiment around them at the time. Check it out.

 

[storm2006]

It's me, I'm folks.

This statement got me for me some reason

Eff KD's rings, fr fr. I appreciated the Dubs before that. Again, as a basketball fan, I appreciated them. They won one year, set the regular season record, lost, but it was entertaining.

KD ruined that. We can't pretend that one of the GshootersOAT team joining a team fresh off 2 Finals runs who just beat hm... is as respectable and worthy as all other championships.

Well I can't. It's literally the bottom of all of them for me.

While I don’t disagree with this, it is very unclear how this take will mature and evolve over the next 10 to 20 years as context is removed, less of the facts are emphasized and the guard of the league is changed.

 

[100027]

The 2015 Warriors didn’t have multiple “top tier” stars at the time. They are VERY similar to the warriors. Lowry might end up a HOF, Siakum looks to be on the path of multiple time all star. And guys like Gasol, Ibaka Etc been good players in the league for a long time.

2015 Warriors...Draymond hadn’t made an all star or all nba team yet. Klay wasn’t an all star yet. Iggy was seen as just a rotational player who came over from Denver.

People really forget what that team was, in real time...and how they were viewed. Loved the rewatchable by Bill Simmons on those Warriors team. Rusillo does a great job detailing the sentiment around them at the time. Check it out.

Sorry but you’re wrong. Klay and Draymond may not have been recognized for their abilities yet but they were already stars. No, they are not comparable to the Raptors.

 

[100027]

I just rewatched some long highlights from that Mavs Heat finals this morning. Reminded me how much I like Mike Breen and how totally trash Mark Jackson and JVG are.

 

[storm2006]

may not have been recognized for their abilities yet but they were already stars.

Isn’t this argument kind of flawed/ambiguous? If we let this reasoning slide then it allows for all sort of exceptions.

LeBron may not be finished with his career but he’s already the GOAT.

The Kawhi/PG Clippers may not have played a playoff series yet but they are already a dynasty.

It just seems like a slippery slope