THEE OFFICIAL 2019-2020 NBA OFFSEASON THREAD: VICTORY LAP

[wavycrocket]

And we have to stop this nonsense too man.

Stop holding, "Not shooting 3's" against players in eras that didn't love the shot as much as the league does today.

I’m not holding it against him at all . I’m just giving context to why his TS% or EFG% might be lower.

 

[B Sox]

Zeke was the best non-Magic PG of that era by a mile. Ultimate competitor. Same **** y'all love about guys like MJ and Kobe, he was. Just in a smaller body. Did whatever his team needed, and pretty much everybody of that era agrees on it.

Can't compare his numbers to modern guys because of the reasons wavycrocket stated.

 

[B Sox]

I’m not holding it against him at all . I’m just giving context to why his TS% or EFG% might be lower.

I think DCAllAfrican was actually agreeing with you.

 

[niceshoes247]

Bill Simmons such a homer
Mentions that 86 Celtics team every damn show

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I’m not holding it against him at all . I’m just giving context to why his TS% or EFG% might be lower.

Yea, I was agreeing with you. Just saying people that hold the LACK of 3's against him (or older players) is just nonsense.

 

[babyface34]

All the metrics/analytics and IG clickbait graphics we have today hold little to no weight when assessing any member of that original 50 Greatest NBA players list... And I can't stand Isaiah Thomas.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Why does Harden and MDA need to change their style?

Have they been "unsuccessful?" Oh yea, because success only means Winning a ring.

What is the alternative that is promising them "more" success than what they have seen recently?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

He was a 20/10 guy on about 46% from the field for the entire 80s. Advanced stats don’t love him because he didn’t shoot 3s. So it kinda underrates him in a sense. But his raw numbers, and above average efficiency for a PG his size, and his workload Leads me to believe he was special. The old heads are right when they talk about Zeke.

He was THAT.

here's the thing tho, Bill SImmons just casually dismissed the idea that Chris Paul is better,

but like I don't get the sense that Isiah was considered like a dead bang top 5 player every year in his prime like Chris Paul was.


seems more like he was a top 10 player and the leader of an all time great team.

 

[MVP]

eh, i think there's competing ideologies on not straying from what made you successful. I don't disagree that the rockets should be more open to diversifying the offense though.

Neither of them have been successful on a championship level and in reality their stubbornness has been a huge part of their demises. Their is no plan B. Harden like Mike has gotten individual accolades and some adulation for his scoring prowess but ultimately it's not championship basketball. And I don't wanna hear a thing about competition blah blah blah they've had every scenario and permutation to get it done and both ultimately choked when it matters most cause they have nothing else to go to besides their gimmick offense.

 

[B Sox]

Why does Harden and MDA need to change their style?

Have they been "unsuccessful?" Oh yea, because success only means Winning a ring.

What is the alternative that is promising them "more" success than what they have seen recently?

Only gripe I have had, is Harden settling for the stepback too often in the playoffs. Otherwise, their game plan has given them the best chance to win given their roster, and the only times they've lost in the playoffs have been to teams that are decidedly better than them.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Off topic but drop current me in like the 50s or 60s and I swear I could average double digits lol

well

Lace up a pair of chucks and grow up with the child hood nutrition and exposure to lead and mercury of a pre civil rights era america and see how well you would do.



The greats of of the 50's and 60's would succeed in any era.

 

[darthska]

Bill Simmons and Doug Collins call a basketball game. They have tasers attached to them at MULTIPLE places on their body. Anytime Doug mentions Michael or Simmons mentions Boston sports, they get zapped.

How does this end?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Only gripe I have had, is Harden settling for the stepback too often in the playoffs. Otherwise, their game plan has given them the best chance to win given their roster, and the only times they've lost in the playoffs have been to teams that are decidedly better than them.

Blow it up!

They haven't won a ring.

Complete failure.

But I agree with your point, maybe he could chill with the Highspots during the playoffs but I guess he figures, why stop now?

 

[dmbrhs]

This is where I remind everyone that Bob Ryan is a crusty old fart who still thinks the three-point shot is the worst thing to ever happen to basketball. That guy would prefer peach baskets and Chuck Taylors over whatever he thinks the NBA has become today.

 

[do work son]

And I don't wanna hear a thing about competition blah blah blah

"here's my argument why i'm right. but before you respond, i don't want to hear anything that negates the point i'm making because i already decided i don't agree with it"

fair enough.

Only gripe I have had, is Harden settling for the stepback too often in the playoffs. Otherwise, their game plan has given them the best chance to win given their roster, and the only times they've lost in the playoffs have been to teams that are decidedly better than them.

that's my point on diversifying a little bit. I don't mind the isolations really. i mind settling for jumpers. i also mind analytics at the end of games. a lot of the "shoot 3s and layups" mindset is based off of large sample sizes. so over a season, yeah it bears out that shooting a 3 at this percentage is better than a 2 at this percentage, but at the end of a game when you have 3-5 possessions left, just take the best shot available. 3 maybe better than 2, but 2 is better than 0. just get a bucket, even if it is that evil mid range.

 

[BIG FISH]

well

Lace up a pair of chucks and grow up with the child hood nutrition and exposure to lead and mercury of a pre civil rights era america and see how well you would do.



The greats of of the 50's and 60's would succeed in any era.

I mean obviously it’s a moot point because of the advantages we have today, I was just saying lol

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I mean obviously it’s a moot point because of the advantages we have today, I was just saying lol

ha yeah, I get what you mean.


im just making a larger point, people love to **** on the dudes from the 50's and 60's.

given the circumstances they were incredible.



Bill Russel grew up in the jim crow south, and still was a awesome athlete.


what do you think would happen if he was getting 3 square non segregated meals per day and wasn't getting poisoned by exposure to lead like most Americans at the time.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

also people never mention carrying were called extremely strictly back then, they didn't dribble like that for no reason.

 

[friscostylez]

you know what really grinds my gears? the same people who devalue a player's career because of not winning a ring are the same people who whine & cry when players place themselves in the best position to win one.

 

[HIM]

It’s hard for me to believe that MDA, one of the greatest offensive coaches in league history, can’t muster up another offensive strategy other than Harden ISOing for 20 seconds every time down. I’m not saying that it isn’t the case, but I’m gonna give MDA more credit than that.

My question is, who is making him stick to it? Morey, or Harden?

 

[lawdog1]

"here's my argument why i'm right. but before you respond, i don't want to hear anything that negates the point i'm making because i already decided i don't agree with it"

fair enough.



that's my point on diversifying a little bit. I don't mind the isolations really. i mind settling for jumpers. i also mind analytics at the end of games. a lot of the "shoot 3s and layups" mindset is based off of large sample sizes. so over a season, yeah it bears out that shooting a 3 at this percentage is better than a 2 at this percentage, but at the end of a game when you have 3-5 possessions left, just take the best shot available. 3 maybe better than 2, but 2 is better than 0. just get a bucket, even if it is that evil mid range.

And correct me if I‘M wrong, but wasn’t Harden pretty good in the mid-range back when he was doing it more?

 

[BIG FISH]

also people never mention carrying were called extremely strictly back then, they didn't dribble like that for no reason.

I actually never knew this. Explains a lot lmao.

 

[B Sox]

"here's my argument why i'm right. but before you respond, i don't want to hear anything that negates the point i'm making because i already decided i don't agree with it"

fair enough.



that's my point on diversifying a little bit. I don't mind the isolations really. i mind settling for jumpers. i also mind analytics at the end of games. a lot of the "shoot 3s and layups" mindset is based off of large sample sizes. so over a season, yeah it bears out that shooting a 3 at this percentage is better than a 2 at this percentage, but at the end of a game when you have 3-5 possessions left, just take the best shot available. 3 maybe better than 2, but 2 is better than 0. just get a bucket, even if it is that evil mid range.

Agree with that. I really wanted/want to see what this team looks like in the playoffs. I think the organization has clearly done whatever they can in order to maximize Russ, with the idea that it won’t/shouldn’t have too much effect on what Harden does, and him driving to the rim with no big clogging the paint is something that the team hasn’t had in previous playoff iterations.

I still don’t think they are good enough defensively at the end of the day to beat one of the LA teams, but I think it would’ve been fascinating to watch.

 

[darthska]

Bill Russel grew up in the jim crow south, and still was a awesome athlete.


what do you think would happen if he was getting 3 square non segregated meals per day and wasn't getting poisoned by exposure to lead like most Americans at the time.

If I can add to that: You just took away his huge disadvantages. But to add to that, imagine what the hell he would be in a non-segregated, non-poisoned environment where he was actually introduced to basketball in like 5th or 6th grade and by the time he was in HS he had some pretty nice trainers and then in college had some of the world's best trainers and coaches.

 

[do work son]

It’s hard for me to believe that MDA, one of the greatest offensive coaches in league history, can’t muster up another offensive strategy other than Harden ISOing for 20 seconds every time down. I’m not saying that it isn’t the case, but I’m gonna give MDA more credit than that.

My question is, who is making him stick to it? Morey, or Harden?

And correct me if I‘M wrong, but wasn’t Harden pretty good in the mid-range back when he was doing it more?

yes, and he's still good at it. but over the course of a season with larger sample sizes, there's enough variance in launching threes to artificially lift a team's ceiling. a team with harden, CP3 Ariza, eric gordon, and pj tucker pushed a team with Steph, KD, Klay, Iggy, and Draymond to the brink. they did that because harden and cp3 were prolific in isolation and the team hit enough 3s to contend with a clearly superior team.

Agree with that. I really wanted/want to see what this team looks like in the playoffs. I think the organization has clearly done whatever they can in order to maximize Russ, with the idea that it won’t/shouldn’t have too much effect on what Harden does, and him driving to the rim with no big clogging the paint is something that the team hasn’t had in previous playoff iterations.

I still don’t think they are good enough defensively at the end of the day to beat one of the LA teams, but I think it would’ve been fascinating to watch.

both LA teams create different matchup issues that i don't think we'd be able to overcome over the course of a series.