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Thee Official LeBron James = Scottie Pippen and Dywane Wade = Michael Jordan for the 2011 Finals
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by cafinest23,
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Oh yea?
do u know what round the bulls lost jordans first year? they didnt lose in any rounds
That would either mean that they won the championship or didn't make the playoffs.
I feel bad for Winged Wheel in here arguing with people who aren't even using accurate stats
As he's already corrected you, it was in the semifinals, not the ECF. I've always used the Bulls' play the year after Jordan retired as evidence that his supporting cast was pretty good, so I'm with you on that. However, you and LDJ are sloppily comparing the Bulls losing MJ to the Cavs losing Lebron to point out how good Lebron is. The Cavs roster was still bad, but they had a ton of injuries to key contributors. Let's look at the falloff:
-Mo Williams: 69 games in '09, only 36 in '10
-Anderson Varejao: 76 games in '09, only 31 in '10
-Shaq: 53 games and 4th leading scorer in '09, not on the team in '10
-Delonte West: 60 games in '09, not on the team in '10
-Ilgauskas: 60 games @ 20 minutes per in '09, not on the team in '10.
The 2nd scoring option only played 36 games, 4th scoring option left the team. They also fired their coach and brought in a couple new players. Remind me again how that is the "exact same" team...
You guys are either being mad lazy/not paying attention or ignoring obvious reasons why the Cavs were so bad. Many guys who were starters or big contributors left or were injured for a good bit of the season. They were mixing and matching starting 5's all season and had to sign guys from the D-league just to have bodies on the bench due to injuries. Their offense was designed around and run through one player before he left more so than any team in a long time, and they also brought in a new coach.
Meanwhile the Bulls retained most of their starting lineup sans Jordan and kept them healthy most of the year, and had an established offense that's won 11 championships that they were comfortable running even without Jordan. They also retained the same coach, who happens to be one of the best ever.
If the Cavs had lost Lebron but kept Shaq and Delonte, and not had Mo and Andy injured for a lot of the year, AND if their offense hadn't been so reliant on one player, then you could make the comparison. You can say that Lebron was a bigger factor in his team's success because the offense ran through him more, but that doesn't really help his argument as being on the same level as Jordan was as a player.
Also,@ bringing up how many triple doubles Lebron has in the Finals compared to Jordan. I HOPE that was a joke.
But the year before when lebron was there they had key injuries trades/changes in the line up as well. And i didnt say or making an argument jordan vs lbj, my point was that the cavs were lbj and he was the main key and really the only reason for the team success while with jordan and the bulls it was jordan a hof sf, a hof coach and arguably the most cohesive and well put together team the league has seen. If you truly belive a full heathly roster (even though when lbj was on the team they didnt have a full heathly roster) would still have a winning season and have a legit shot at a title and would only lose a few games less then the year before. I dont even know what to say. They may have not been the worst team in the l, but they damn sure wouldnt be a top seeded team in the east. Honestly i dont even think they would have made the playoffs.
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Oh yea?
do u know what round the bulls lost jordans first year? they didnt lose in any rounds
That would either mean that they won the championship or didn't make the playoffs.
I feel bad for Winged Wheel in here arguing with people who aren't even using accurate stats
As he's already corrected you, it was in the semifinals, not the ECF. I've always used the Bulls' play the year after Jordan retired as evidence that his supporting cast was pretty good, so I'm with you on that. However, you and LDJ are sloppily comparing the Bulls losing MJ to the Cavs losing Lebron to point out how good Lebron is. The Cavs roster was still bad, but they had a ton of injuries to key contributors. Let's look at the falloff:
-Mo Williams: 69 games in '09, only 36 in '10
-Anderson Varejao: 76 games in '09, only 31 in '10
-Shaq: 53 games and 4th leading scorer in '09, not on the team in '10
-Delonte West: 60 games in '09, not on the team in '10
-Ilgauskas: 60 games @ 20 minutes per in '09, not on the team in '10.
The 2nd scoring option only played 36 games, 4th scoring option left the team. They also fired their coach and brought in a couple new players. Remind me again how that is the "exact same" team...
You guys are either being mad lazy/not paying attention or ignoring obvious reasons why the Cavs were so bad. Many guys who were starters or big contributors left or were injured for a good bit of the season. They were mixing and matching starting 5's all season and had to sign guys from the D-league just to have bodies on the bench due to injuries. Their offense was designed around and run through one player before he left more so than any team in a long time, and they also brought in a new coach.
Meanwhile the Bulls retained most of their starting lineup sans Jordan and kept them healthy most of the year, and had an established offense that's won 11 championships that they were comfortable running even without Jordan. They also retained the same coach, who happens to be one of the best ever.
If the Cavs had lost Lebron but kept Shaq and Delonte, and not had Mo and Andy injured for a lot of the year, AND if their offense hadn't been so reliant on one player, then you could make the comparison. You can say that Lebron was a bigger factor in his team's success because the offense ran through him more, but that doesn't really help his argument as being on the same level as Jordan was as a player.
Also,@ bringing up how many triple doubles Lebron has in the Finals compared to Jordan. I HOPE that was a joke.
But the year before when lebron was there they had key injuries trades/changes in the line up as well. And i didnt say or making an argument jordan vs lbj, my point was that the cavs were lbj and he was the main key and really the only reason for the team success while with jordan and the bulls it was jordan a hof sf, a hof coach and arguably the most cohesive and well put together team the league has seen. If you truly belive a full heathly roster (even though when lbj was on the team they didnt have a full heathly roster) would still have a winning season and have a legit shot at a title and would only lose a few games less then the year before. I dont even know what to say. They may have not been the worst team in the l, but they damn sure wouldnt be a top seeded team in the east. Honestly i dont even think they would have made the playoffs.
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dude its gonna get worse if the heat lose the finalsOriginally Posted by WhatsLosinLike
NT has been going bezerk these past 2-3 days...
niketalkers thrive on the hate
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dude its gonna get worse if the heat lose the finalsOriginally Posted by WhatsLosinLike
NT has been going bezerk these past 2-3 days...
niketalkers thrive on the hate
truthgetsbusy
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Originally Posted by NobleKane
dude its gonna get worse if the heat lose the finalsOriginally Posted by WhatsLosinLike
NT has been going bezerk these past 2-3 days...you gonna have to hear about it until next june
niketalkers thrive on the hate
truthgetsbusy
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Originally Posted by NobleKane
dude its gonna get worse if the heat lose the finalsOriginally Posted by WhatsLosinLike
NT has been going bezerk these past 2-3 days...you gonna have to hear about it until next june
niketalkers thrive on the hate
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Originally Posted by NobleKane
dude its gonna get worse if the heat lose the finalsOriginally Posted by WhatsLosinLike
NT has been going bezerk these past 2-3 days...you gonna have to hear about it until next june
niketalkers thrive on the hate
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Originally Posted by NobleKane
dude its gonna get worse if the heat lose the finalsOriginally Posted by WhatsLosinLike
NT has been going bezerk these past 2-3 days...you gonna have to hear about it until next june
niketalkers thrive on the hate
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This. Some of us actually been watching basketball before some of these people were even born.
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This. Some of us actually been watching basketball before some of these people were even born.
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It's gotten to the point where I don't even post in certain threads because the ignorance & bs is off the charts
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It's gotten to the point where I don't even post in certain threads because the ignorance & bs is off the charts
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I'm going to give credit when credit is due.... LeBron IS a great player, as I stated before. All hate in my heart for him aside... He is point blank perrid *TI Voice*
BUT
The problems I have with him are as follows:
1. "Chosen 1"... he got that what? his 2nd or 3rd year in the league??
2. He's that dude in the pickup game that talks ALL that hot noise, and argues about EVERYTHING, man shut up, and play the game you get PAID to play
3. "Soldiers" tweet......smh
4. "Now or never!!" tweet at 2 something in the morning?? smh... man quit reading the hate about yourself, cuz its OBVIOUSLY stressing you out (see: receding hairline), log off the computer, go watch some game film or something
5. He acts like that lame girlfriend that always needs you to tell her shes pretty to feel pretty... Remember when chris bosh was trying to get more touches? He took a jab at him seemingly to make himself feel better... Took Jabs at Mike Browns coaching strategy in cleveland, takes defensive jabs at media reporters (which that dude was trolling so hard but it was true). Taking jabs at Dirk being sick KNOWING hes being recorded... Really dude?
6. Look at the two game winning layups the first one hes being guarded by bosh, which is meh to begin with, dirk goes left lebron is in good helpside defensive position what does he do?? watches dirk go for the lefty layup. Second one being guarded by haslem, goes right, Lebron is again in great helpside defensive position. What does he do? Nothing.... granted I realize terry would have been open for 3, but come on son...
7. Flopping... nuff said man
8. Excessive celebrating, bro, you are an elite NBA superstar, act like you've been there before, the game isn't over
I could go on, but basically it boils down to this...
LeBron has been THE man since he was like 17, he's had everyone brown nosing him since... He still has the mindframe of an immature child in my own opinion, and at 26 I'm not saying he can't mature, because hey everyone has the ability to change, but do ya'll see it happening? I'm skeptical....
BUT
The problems I have with him are as follows:
1. "Chosen 1"... he got that what? his 2nd or 3rd year in the league??
2. He's that dude in the pickup game that talks ALL that hot noise, and argues about EVERYTHING, man shut up, and play the game you get PAID to play
3. "Soldiers" tweet......smh
4. "Now or never!!" tweet at 2 something in the morning?? smh... man quit reading the hate about yourself, cuz its OBVIOUSLY stressing you out (see: receding hairline), log off the computer, go watch some game film or something
5. He acts like that lame girlfriend that always needs you to tell her shes pretty to feel pretty... Remember when chris bosh was trying to get more touches? He took a jab at him seemingly to make himself feel better... Took Jabs at Mike Browns coaching strategy in cleveland, takes defensive jabs at media reporters (which that dude was trolling so hard but it was true). Taking jabs at Dirk being sick KNOWING hes being recorded... Really dude?
6. Look at the two game winning layups the first one hes being guarded by bosh, which is meh to begin with, dirk goes left lebron is in good helpside defensive position what does he do?? watches dirk go for the lefty layup. Second one being guarded by haslem, goes right, Lebron is again in great helpside defensive position. What does he do? Nothing.... granted I realize terry would have been open for 3, but come on son...
7. Flopping... nuff said man
8. Excessive celebrating, bro, you are an elite NBA superstar, act like you've been there before, the game isn't over
I could go on, but basically it boils down to this...
LeBron has been THE man since he was like 17, he's had everyone brown nosing him since... He still has the mindframe of an immature child in my own opinion, and at 26 I'm not saying he can't mature, because hey everyone has the ability to change, but do ya'll see it happening? I'm skeptical....
Spoiler [+]
cool story bro
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I'm going to give credit when credit is due.... LeBron IS a great player, as I stated before. All hate in my heart for him aside... He is point blank perrid *TI Voice*
BUT
The problems I have with him are as follows:
1. "Chosen 1"... he got that what? his 2nd or 3rd year in the league??
2. He's that dude in the pickup game that talks ALL that hot noise, and argues about EVERYTHING, man shut up, and play the game you get PAID to play
3. "Soldiers" tweet......smh
4. "Now or never!!" tweet at 2 something in the morning?? smh... man quit reading the hate about yourself, cuz its OBVIOUSLY stressing you out (see: receding hairline), log off the computer, go watch some game film or something
5. He acts like that lame girlfriend that always needs you to tell her shes pretty to feel pretty... Remember when chris bosh was trying to get more touches? He took a jab at him seemingly to make himself feel better... Took Jabs at Mike Browns coaching strategy in cleveland, takes defensive jabs at media reporters (which that dude was trolling so hard but it was true). Taking jabs at Dirk being sick KNOWING hes being recorded... Really dude?
6. Look at the two game winning layups the first one hes being guarded by bosh, which is meh to begin with, dirk goes left lebron is in good helpside defensive position what does he do?? watches dirk go for the lefty layup. Second one being guarded by haslem, goes right, Lebron is again in great helpside defensive position. What does he do? Nothing.... granted I realize terry would have been open for 3, but come on son...
7. Flopping... nuff said man
8. Excessive celebrating, bro, you are an elite NBA superstar, act like you've been there before, the game isn't over
I could go on, but basically it boils down to this...
LeBron has been THE man since he was like 17, he's had everyone brown nosing him since... He still has the mindframe of an immature child in my own opinion, and at 26 I'm not saying he can't mature, because hey everyone has the ability to change, but do ya'll see it happening? I'm skeptical....
BUT
The problems I have with him are as follows:
1. "Chosen 1"... he got that what? his 2nd or 3rd year in the league??
2. He's that dude in the pickup game that talks ALL that hot noise, and argues about EVERYTHING, man shut up, and play the game you get PAID to play
3. "Soldiers" tweet......smh
4. "Now or never!!" tweet at 2 something in the morning?? smh... man quit reading the hate about yourself, cuz its OBVIOUSLY stressing you out (see: receding hairline), log off the computer, go watch some game film or something
5. He acts like that lame girlfriend that always needs you to tell her shes pretty to feel pretty... Remember when chris bosh was trying to get more touches? He took a jab at him seemingly to make himself feel better... Took Jabs at Mike Browns coaching strategy in cleveland, takes defensive jabs at media reporters (which that dude was trolling so hard but it was true). Taking jabs at Dirk being sick KNOWING hes being recorded... Really dude?
6. Look at the two game winning layups the first one hes being guarded by bosh, which is meh to begin with, dirk goes left lebron is in good helpside defensive position what does he do?? watches dirk go for the lefty layup. Second one being guarded by haslem, goes right, Lebron is again in great helpside defensive position. What does he do? Nothing.... granted I realize terry would have been open for 3, but come on son...
7. Flopping... nuff said man
8. Excessive celebrating, bro, you are an elite NBA superstar, act like you've been there before, the game isn't over
I could go on, but basically it boils down to this...
LeBron has been THE man since he was like 17, he's had everyone brown nosing him since... He still has the mindframe of an immature child in my own opinion, and at 26 I'm not saying he can't mature, because hey everyone has the ability to change, but do ya'll see it happening? I'm skeptical....
Spoiler [+]
cool story bro
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Originally Posted by Winged Wheel
It's gotten to the point where I don't even post in certain threads because the ignorance & bs is off the charts
I don't get into arguments on NT because of that alone .....it gets mind numbing ...side note: RedWings to the death of me
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Originally Posted by Winged Wheel
It's gotten to the point where I don't even post in certain threads because the ignorance & bs is off the charts
I don't get into arguments on NT because of that alone .....it gets mind numbing ...side note: RedWings to the death of me
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But the year before when lebron was there they had key injuries trades/changes in the line up as well. And i didnt say or making an argument jordan vs lbj, my point was that the cavs were lbj and he was the main key and really the only reason for the team success while with jordan and the bulls it was jordan a hof sf, a hof coach and arguably the most cohesive and well put together team the league has seen. If you truly belive a full heathly roster (even though when lbj was on the team they didnt have a full heathly roster) would still have a winning season and have a legit shot at a title and would only lose a few games less then the year before. I dont even know what to say. They may have not been the worst team in the l, but they damn sure wouldnt be a top seeded team in the east. Honestly i dont even think they would have made the playoffs.
Ah ok, my mistake, I misunderstood you then.
But even still, I'd seen repeated posts saying that the Cavs had the all the same guys back when that wasn't the case.
I said they returned most of their starting line up besides Jordan; 4 of their 5 main starters were back on the team with 3 of them (Horace, Scottie, and BJ) playing in 70 games or more. Whereas the Cavs had to shuffle their lineups a lot more and only had JJ Hickson and Anthony Parker as returning starters (even though they were the 8th and 10th scoring options) start in more than half the games in '10. Yea the Bulls brought in new faces, but their situation was worlds better than the Cavs was as far as how many key players they returned/stayed healthy, even if you ignore how good each individual player was. That was the point I was trying to make.
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But the year before when lebron was there they had key injuries trades/changes in the line up as well. And i didnt say or making an argument jordan vs lbj, my point was that the cavs were lbj and he was the main key and really the only reason for the team success while with jordan and the bulls it was jordan a hof sf, a hof coach and arguably the most cohesive and well put together team the league has seen. If you truly belive a full heathly roster (even though when lbj was on the team they didnt have a full heathly roster) would still have a winning season and have a legit shot at a title and would only lose a few games less then the year before. I dont even know what to say. They may have not been the worst team in the l, but they damn sure wouldnt be a top seeded team in the east. Honestly i dont even think they would have made the playoffs.
Ah ok, my mistake, I misunderstood you then.
But even still, I'd seen repeated posts saying that the Cavs had the all the same guys back when that wasn't the case.
I said they returned most of their starting line up besides Jordan; 4 of their 5 main starters were back on the team with 3 of them (Horace, Scottie, and BJ) playing in 70 games or more. Whereas the Cavs had to shuffle their lineups a lot more and only had JJ Hickson and Anthony Parker as returning starters (even though they were the 8th and 10th scoring options) start in more than half the games in '10. Yea the Bulls brought in new faces, but their situation was worlds better than the Cavs was as far as how many key players they returned/stayed healthy, even if you ignore how good each individual player was. That was the point I was trying to make.
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Originally Posted by MrONegative
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Originally Posted by MrONegative
