Thoughts on the Johnathon Martin - Ritchie Incognito situation?

[lyonbc1]

^^ exactly pranks like that and carrying pads, taped to a goalpost, get stuck carrying a girlie backpack or making a rookie wear a skirt or something are hazing. Y'all kill me with the tough talk "oh hazing makes you a stronger man" foh with that I've gone through hazing before and it made me strongly dislike the people in that moment but it was NOTHING in respect to this. The older guys hazing me an other younger kids on the team had our backs, they would check on us to make sure we were adjusting ok, they'd take us out to eat a couple times as a group...we still had to do all the ***** tasks and an embarassing drinking event (once) for an entire year but that hazing crap didn't make us bond together it only served as some "rite of passage" bc the older guys had to do it when they were in our shoes. Literally no evidence of it making people bond together at all just a cycle of stupidity. What did help was us being able to talk to the older guys bc they actually cared. Incognito is a moron and won't play in the nfl again. Martin, yeah maybe he's not cut out for it dealin with idiotic stuff like that. Sure hell be just fine in life with his Stanford degree and parents with Harvard law degrees can probably help him be a successful, productive member of society which Dudes like Incognito surely are not, he's a meathead in every sense like so many other football players and probably would be unemployed if it weren't for football, where he's the dirtiest player in the game.

"Oh he's so soft and *****made Martin is 6-5 320 lbs so he should be able to take it" stop it with the nonsense. like some of your high school football hazing stories really trump the myriad of actual nfl stars who have said this is absurd and would not have gone down in their lockerroom. I'm talking: Moss, Urlacher, Ray Lewis, Cris carter, Keyshawn, ditka, among others. Miami has a lockerroom devoid of any real leadership.

 

[shatterkneesinc]

some of yall act like a locker room is a prison

who wants to play for a team with that kind of leadership? martin did the right thing because he knew bullying wasnt going to stop and he was in no position to retaliate without looking like an uncoachable hot head.

 

[buc em]

I find it rather hilarious that people are listening to Randy Moss and Keyshawn Johnson about character issues like this. Both of them did whatever the hell they wanted their whole careers and turned locker rooms into complete **** whenever things weren't going their way. Ditka was a great coach but he was one of the biggest sons of ******* in the world when he was coaching...I'm sure some of the **** he said was just as bad as what Incognito said (except he wasn't joking). Urlacher was a great player but he also was a dickhead. Another meathead that probably "bullied" the **** out of younger players that he didn't like.

These dudes jobs are at stake. You think they're going to risk their jobs by saying that Jonathan Martin is a lil babyback ***** on live tv?

 

[651akathepaul]

Sometimes, hearing from those exact guys you mentioned Buc, give the clearest and best descriptions. Takes one to know one.

 

[jjs07]

Let me ask yall...were some of you this forgiving to Riley Cooper? I mean, if you're gonna excuse Incognito for his actions, you got to do the same for Cooper, right?

[marlo] you want it to be one way.... [/marlo]

I draw the line at the racial slurs and threats. THAT'S beyond OD. But hey, Incognito is a guy you apparently want with you in a bar fight so it's OK.

 

[secretzofwar]

Yeah really, Icognito just took it too far. I hope he never plays another down in the NFL, but we all know he probably will.

As for Martin, the knock on him coming out of Stanford was that he didn't have a football player mentality. Top 5 body and specs, but many scouts said he didn't have the mean strike to be a quality offensive lineman in the NFL.

 

[deuce king]

Let me ask yall...were some of you this forgiving to Riley Cooper? I mean, if you're gonna excuse Incognito for his actions, you got to do the same for Cooper, right?

I haven't seen anyone in here or anywhere excuse Incognito for his actions.  If you have, please let me know.  Just like I personally don't forgive Riley Cooper for what he said.  I think some are not completely excusing Martin's role in this situation and perhaps finding some fault in some of his actions, big difference. 

 

[651akathepaul]

I don't think Incognito ever returns. I really don't. The NFL has changed. Teams no longer care to take risks on mediocre talents with huge personal question marks, just to fill a positional void. Too much media hoopla and questioning.

 

[don ramon]

well the line should be drawn way before anyone has the chance to get to unleashing racial slurs

in this case this guy incognito certainly possesses the characteristics of a genuine sociopath

people are choosing to ignore this detail and give incognito the benefit of the doubt by default by labeling martin "soft," "weak," "mentally ill," and even "gay" for choosing to not beat his brain back in retaliation

because he wears a jersey and plays a sports he gets that benefit of the doubt and martin is seen as the chump

i feel like an alien in here sometimes

 

[100027]

I don't think Incognito ever returns. I really don't. The NFL has changed. Teams no longer care to take risks on mediocre talents with huge personal question marks, just to fill a positional void. Too much media hoopla and questioning.

Feel like Jeff Fisher would take him.

 

[lyonbc1]

I find it rather hilarious that people are listening to Randy Moss and Keyshawn Johnson about character issues like this. Both of them did whatever the hell they wanted their whole careers and turned locker rooms into complete **** whenever things weren't going their way. Ditka was a great coach but he was one of the biggest sons of ******* in the world when he was coaching...I'm sure some of the **** he said was just as bad as what Incognito said (except he wasn't joking). Urlacher was a great player but he also was a dickhead. Another meathead that probably "bullied" the **** out of younger players that he didn't like.

These dudes jobs are at stake. You think they're going to risk their jobs by saying that Jonathan Martin is a lil babyback ***** on live tv?

So making 6 baseless assumptions with no single shred of evidence we've heard from guys who played in the nfl who spoke about this but I'm supposed to follow the logic of some of y'all reciting takes from high school football?! Keyshawn and Moss were wideouts and selfish in that way. Both were immature and did dumb things yet you dont think they grew up at some point and did anything other than whining about the ball or stuff like do raunchy TD celebrations that is petty compared to this incident? Randy sure did tear that New England locker room apart man oh man were they a divided bunch -__- . Your coach Schiano probably isn't as much of a douche as incognito, and he's not liked at all by most accounts.

So tell us what Martin is supposed to do? Since he's a big guy he's gonna get in crazy *** incognito's grill with a whole lockerroom of idiots supporting incognito? Surely that would've worked out fantastically for someone who doesn't have that personality. A dude who loads up on assault rifles and threatens to kill you and calls you a half n, who clearly has no respect for you and is bat**** insane is going to stop when you confront him? A dude with a history of bullying other players going back to 2002 in college? This is a damn 30 year old man and y'all are calling out Martin claiming well that's just how this stuff goes.

All I have to base the opinions on are what they said last night where they were passionately against this crap. Not conjecture about "well probably this and he likely did this or that". Have never heard one thing about Urlacher bullying a teammate also. What are y'all proving by defending the behavior and calling out Martin? Like y'all want manhood points? Congrats you called him soft and a ***** he'd still whip every last one of you and you wouldn't say jack to him if you were in the situation. Y'all support dudes who pick out "weaker minded" or different types of people just for fun I guess, y'all can have that.

 

[secretzofwar]

well the line should be drawn way before anyone has the chance to get to unleashing racial slurs

in this case this guy incognito certainly possesses the characteristics of a genuine sociopath

people are choosing to ignore this detail and give incognito the benefit of the doubt by default by labeling martin "soft," "weak," "mentally ill," and even "gay" for choosing to not beat his brain back in retaliation

because he wears a jersey and plays a sports he gets that benefit of the doubt and martin is seen as the chump

i feel like an alien in here sometimes

That's a great point. Incognito and his dad are literally insane. Could you imagine this dude saying that to anyone other than a player who was suffering from mental anguish?

 

[beh235]

I really feel as though Martin (if he chooses to play again) will be on an NFL roster before Incognito. I think Incognito will be done in the league. WAAAAY too much baggage.

This. Incognito has serious character issues as his track record shows. I don't think he'd be back in the NFL any time soon.

A lot of these comments are eye opening. I really hope none of you guys have kids that may develop a mental illness, it really goes to show you that we as a society don't take it seriously enough until people get hurt.

The guy walked away from a million dollar job, there's issues there and it has nothing to do with being a "man" or "hard".

I agree. So much must have gone on to where he said **** it, it's not worth it. I've been reading comments and everyone seems to think it's black and white. Until you understand what that person has gone through, how can you make that assessment?

there's a difference between hazing and bullying/threatening to kill someone.

there's just a certain line you don't cross...and this dude incognito is crossing it

This. As Chris Carter pointed out, Aaron Hernandez's situation shows you can't take that statement lightly.

Let me ask yall...were some of you this forgiving to Riley Cooper? I mean, if you're gonna excuse Incognito for his actions, you got to do the same for Cooper, right?

[marlo] you want it to be one way.... [/marlo]

I draw the line at the racial slurs and threats. THAT'S beyond OD. But hey, Incognito is a guy you apparently want with you in a bar fight so it's OK.

I don't excuse Cooper, as I stated earlier in the thread, the TMZ video was in a different context of the voicemail. Both were bad. I still think the Cooper situation has that team messed up but they are covering it well.

It's amazing how some people are blaming Martin for being soft. We don't even know his side of the story, he hasn't said anything. All we know is the voicemail, and the incidents with the dinners etc. Neither of them have spoken, so I'd reserve any opinion until either one of them speaks. An argument was said that how can someone who graduated from Stanford have mental issues, but since when does having intelligence exclude you from having a mental illness?

 

[dabottom305]

#TeamJonathanMartin

This. I also agree with what Rolle said tho. Martin should not have contributed to a trip he didn't want to go on.

Whenever serious issues come up it's pretty funny to see the responses from NTers

You can tell who's a child and hasn't grown up yet

Talking about fighting in the parking lot and "********ness"

Martin did the right thing any adult would do, you guys all your street justice.

You go fight your coworker after work in the parking lot and see where that gets you.

Everything you just said.

 

[lyonbc1]

well the line should be drawn way before anyone has the chance to get to unleashing racial slurs

in this case this guy incognito certainly possesses the characteristics of a genuine sociopath

people are choosing to ignore this detail and give incognito the benefit of the doubt by default by labeling martin "soft," "weak," "mentally ill," and even "gay" for choosing to not beat his brain back in retaliation

because he wears a jersey and plays a sports he gets that benefit of the doubt and martin is seen as the chump

i feel like an alien in here sometimes

Amen. Dude is clearly bat**** crazy and careless. At least Martin can be a productive member of our society unlike the other scumbag. Preying on someone else's sensitivity is behavior some are excusing bc that's just how it is. How is someone to blame for avoiding conflict, going thru proper channels of supposed trusted coaches, and eventually just not wanting to put up with a toxic environment any longer?? the one thing is the 15k trip to Vegas, that's overboard but we don't know if he was threatened or what. Dude clearly from all accounts has a passive mentality and seems to be more calculated and rational rather than a savage, a "nice guy" if you will...but what we know is incognitos behavior is inexcusable and people calling Martin soft sound foolish.

 

[buc em]

I just want some of you to answer this question for me...

Do you REALLY think that Incognito wanted to **** in Martin's mouth, slap his mother and kill him? Because I'm pretty sure that's what you guys are getting at.

 

[don ramon]

irrelevant

words were said in an alarming enough manner to warrant repercussions. repercussions not necessarily via physical retaliation, but rather the kind of repercussions that landed him out of a job

 

[Maximus Meridius]

It's crazy to hear Mike Wallace talk about Incognito like he's the nicest dude in the league. This stuff is wild.

 

[buc em]

How in the hell is that irrelevant? That question basically answers whether or not you think it was actually "bullying"/harassment or if it was hard joking and he couldn't take it.

You're scared to answer that question because it would make most of your arguments invalid.

 

[dabottom305]

I just want some of you to answer this question for me...

Do you REALLY think that Incognito wanted to **** in Martin's mouth, slap his mother and kill him? Because I'm pretty sure that's what you guys are getting at.

So we should just let it slide?

Who knows what Incognito was capable of doing.

We got Hernandez facing murder charges. Got former players doing time for trafficking. You only see whats on TV.

I bet if Martin came back and shot him you macho men would be talking a lot differently.

 

[651akathepaul]

It's not just Dolphins players speaking nicely about Incognito.

Vikings defensive end Jared Allen said he gets nostalgic with 11-year veteran defensive tackle Kevin Williams on how the NFL used to be when they started their careers.

Allen, in his 10th season in the league, said "hazing" has changed significantly since he started his career with the Chiefs in 2004 and feels the rite of passage message in having veterans establish the atmosphere in the locker room has been lost to a degree.

"From a player’s standpoint, I think some of the younger guys come in and there’s a sense of entitlement, and you lose that work ethic, you lose that true veteran-led locker room sometimes," Allen said. "You got to know who you’re dealing with. You can’t treat everyone the same. You can’t treat every rookie the same. Some guys are more sensitive than others, but it’s a sign of respect."

Allen said he knows Dolphins guard Richie Incognito, who has been suspended by the team as the NFL reviews a harassment complaint from tackle Jonathan Martin, but he doesn't know the details of the situation in Miami. He said it's a terrible situation for Martin, Incognito and the team that's down two offensive linemen.

"Richie has a good heart, he really does," Allen said. "I know he's catching some heat right now, but from what I know of Richie, we've always had a good relationship. He's always been cool with my family. We have mutual friends, so it's a bad deal."

Reports on the hazing issues in Miami mention an instance where the rookies were stuck paying a $30,000 team dinner. Allen recalled during his rookie year driving 20 miles to pick up Popeyes chicken before every team flight with the Chiefs and has heard of first-round picks picking up $50,000-$60,000 tabs at the "rookie dinners" before the NFL implemented a rookie wage scale.

“It just depends on when you came in," Allen said. "Reasonable back in the day? Yeah. I mean, I’ve heard of worse. I’ve heard of less. It depends. That’s usually how it is. But usually it’s a rite of passage you go through, so as a rookie from a football standpoint you go through stuff and that’s what kind of brings you together as a team."

Vikings head coach Leslie Frazier has a policy against hazing with the players, and players have to tread lightly with a rookie.

"We do little things like, ‘Go get me coffee,’" Allen said. "Nothing too crazy, but I appreciate it going through that because I had the respect of the vets. Then when it’s your turn, you don’t feel so bad giving it to someone else."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/230693701.html

 

[storm2006]

How in the hell is that irrelevant? That question basically answers whether or not you think it was actually "bullying"/harassment or if it was hard joking and he couldn't take it.

You're scared to answer that question because it would make most of your arguments invalid.

Saying you're going to slap someone's mother and kill them is hard joking?

View media item 642697

 

[don ramon]

How in the hell is that irrelevant? That question basically answers whether or not you think it was actually "bullying"/harassment or if it was hard joking and he couldn't take it.

You're scared to answer that question because it would make most of your arguments invalid.

what's so difficult to understand about what i wrote? it's irrelevant in that it doesn't lessen the severity of what transpired

you providing an option/choice that it could've been "hard joking" as the alternative to bullying/harassment is complete buffoonery




as for being scared to answer your question, why would i be scared? i'm very confident with the way i've expressed my side of things in this thread, just as in any other thread here on nt

answering a question like the one you posed is giving credence to your ridiculous take on things. please think of what you're about to type before you make any more ridiculous comments

 

[don ramon]

hey guys this dude buc em seems to think that calling someone the N word is "hard joking"

he also seems to believe that telling someone "i'm going to kill you" is hard joking

you got quite a sense of humor there buc em

 

[don ramon]

"hard joking"

heh