Thread about Jesus - Questions, Bible Verses and Prayer Requests

[thealumnus]

This is an interesting discussion . I've been observing I'm surprised there haven't been many questions in regards to the creation of the Christian biblical canon . So I figure I will give some of that . Everything I'm getting ready to say is historically accurate and can actual be backed up by a extremely informative iTunes U course from Yale University.

Here's the link to that course :

https://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/introduction-to-new-testament/id341652017?mt=10

*As a note of transparency I am not a Christian or a member of any religion I do believe in a higher power as there are some things I just can't explain in life through science or logic, and I'm comfortable admitting man may not have the answers to everything but some things we do know . I'm all for everyone cooking with what makes them happen as long as it isn't hurting others *

Anywho:

The Christian bible was formed 150-200 years after the death of Jesus Christ . The bible as we know it in modern day terms was actually the first real book . From the jump there were disagreements about what should be included . Scholars would argue the meaning of passages and the current system at the time involved using scrolls . They realized cutting the scrolls into smaller sheets and glueing them together ( thus creating the modern book ) made it simpler to access sections quickly. There has never been a fully agreed upon "interpretation" of the bible. This dates back before the first council of nicea.

From the time of the death of Christ to the first "bible " the stories were orally passed down . The four gospels that were chosen for the bible Matthew , luke , John and mark were chosen for a couple reasons . #1 the Christian leaders felt that these gospels best told the story. #2 these were the most popular amongst the followers . By most popular I mean , the agnostics would hold "church"in people's homes . Christians were being persecuted during these times , feed to lions in the collesseim , etc . They met in secret slowly building a following and strengthening their church. The four gospels were the four stories early Christian audiences enjoyed hearing the most . Also important to note is they these gospels clearly weren't written by the individuals they were named after . It is believed they received this names due to a common practice of the time . When a new religious document , letter , gospels etc was published it was commonly written by someone expressing their viewpoint . Since "Joe schmoo " or the common man would have a name that meant nothing to anyone and wouldn't gain much attention ,many authors used the disciples names as pseudonyms. Its a fact the gospels weren't written by mark , luke . John , Matthew , however who actually wrote them is unknown bc of this reason .

There are between 20-50 gospels that didn't make it into the current Christian bible . By now every one is familiar with the gospel of judas and some others I'm sure . These gospels are as authenticate as those included in the bible and if one reads up on the councils of nicea one finds that they weren't disregarded for being any less holy , some were seen as repetitive amongst other reasons . What's also interesting is the book of revelations causes so much contention amongst religious scholars . There seems to be a split in whether or not it's a forgery .

There is plenty more out there for those interested in the history . I personally find it fascinating . Whether you agree or disagree with it , Christianity impacts many peoples lives and it's a wonderful to learn a little more about it's history and formations . That may be a thread worth starting now that I think about it

 

[durtyraspburry]

This is an interesting discussion . I've been observing I'm surprised there haven't been many questions in regards to the creation of the Christian biblical canon . So I figure I will give some of that . Everything I'm getting ready to say is historically accurate and can actual be backed up by a extremely informative iTunes U course from Yale University.

Here's the link to that course :

https://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/introduction-to-new-testament/id341652017?mt=10

*As a note of transparency I am not a Christian or a member of any religion I do believe in a higher power as there are some things I just can't explain in life through science or logic, and I'm comfortable admitting man may not have the answers to everything but some things we do know . I'm all for everyone cooking with what makes them happen as long as it isn't hurting others *

Anywho:

The Christian bible was formed 150-200 years after the death of Jesus Christ . The bible as we know it in modern day terms was actually the first real book . From the jump there were disagreements about what should be included . Scholars would argue the meaning of passages and the current system at the time involved using scrolls . They realized cutting the scrolls into smaller sheets and glueing them together ( thus creating the modern book ) made it simpler to access sections quickly. There has never been a fully agreed upon "interpretation" of the bible. This dates back before the first council of nicea.

From the time of the death of Christ to the first "bible " the stories were orally passed down . The four gospels that were chosen for the bible Matthew , luke , John and mark were chosen for a couple reasons . #1 the Christian leaders felt that these gospels best told the story. #2 these were the most popular amongst the followers . By most popular I mean , the agnostics would hold "church"in people's homes . Christians were being persecuted during these times , feed to lions in the collesseim , etc . They met in secret slowly building a following and strengthening their church. The four gospels were the four stories early Christian audiences enjoyed hearing the most . Also important to note is they these gospels clearly weren't written by the individuals they were named after . It is believed they received this names due to a common practice of the time . When a new religious document , letter , gospels etc was published it was commonly written by someone expressing their viewpoint . Since "Joe schmoo " or the common man would have a name that meant nothing to anyone and wouldn't gain much attention ,many authors used the disciples names as pseudonyms. Its a fact the gospels weren't written by mark , luke . John , Matthew , however who actually wrote them is unknown bc of this reason .

There are between 20-50 gospels that didn't make it into the current Christian bible . By now every one is familiar with the gospel of judas and some others I'm sure . These gospels are as authenticate as those included in the bible and if one reads up on the councils of nicea one finds that they weren't disregarded for being any less holy , some were seen as repetitive amongst other reasons . What's also interesting is the book of revelations causes so much contention amongst religious scholars . There seems to be a split in whether or not it's a forgery .

There is plenty more out there for those interested in the history . I personally find it fascinating . Whether you agree or disagree with it , Christianity impacts many peoples lives and it's a wonderful to learn a little more about it's history and formations . That may be a thread worth starting now that I think about it

Nice read there.

Appreciate it.

 

[vino24]

First off, the use of labels is extremely important.

Second, no, 'Christian' does not mean 'follower of Christ', or 'follower in Christ', or follower at all. You've been told wrong (which is a major problem w/ forming beliefs on just what you've been told, and not what you've found out).

Third, my friend, of course the word 'Christian' was used after the death of the Christian Jesus. Do you know when the Bible was actually written?

What does Christian mean then? Enlighten me.

Because to me, it means someone who follows and believes in Jesus's teaching and lives their life according to that. And there's plenty of people that agree with me.

He's what I found straight from Webster's dictionary:
[View media item 1119396

 

[ronsweedroom]

Why are Christians, whether you're besties with Jesus or follow the "religion", some of thee worst, hypocritical parents?

Ex. 

First Lady's, I personally knew, adopt children, treat them like ****, but on Sunday, their hands are in the air, catching the spirit.

A big number of cholos, crips, bloods have overly religious parent(s).

These same Christians always the first to call out another parent on their children

 

[darthska]

^ Exactly where I was headed.

Also worth noting: although there IS major speculation on whether or not certain Biblical characters even existed, there IS historical proof that Saul of Tarsus, (or 'Paul' in the New Testament), did.

But he ever actually met the Christ described in Christian history, and he even alludes to that in his writings.

And Saul of Tarsus was a known homophobic, misogynistic, murdering schizophrenic.

Now go look at how much of the New Testament he wrote.

 

[eazye 804]

This is an interesting discussion . I've been observing I'm surprised there haven't been many questions in regards to the creation of the Christian biblical canon . So I figure I will give some of that . Everything I'm getting ready to say is historically accurate and can actual be backed up by a extremely informative iTunes U course from Yale University.

Here's the link to that course :

https://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/introduction-to-new-testament/id341652017?mt=10

*As a note of transparency I am not a Christian or a member of any religion I do believe in a higher power as there are some things I just can't explain in life through science or logic, and I'm comfortable admitting man may not have the answers to everything but some things we do know . I'm all for everyone cooking with what makes them happen as long as it isn't hurting others *

Anywho:

The Christian bible was formed 150-200 years after the death of Jesus Christ . The bible as we know it in modern day terms was actually the first real book . From the jump there were disagreements about what should be included . Scholars would argue the meaning of passages and the current system at the time involved using scrolls . They realized cutting the scrolls into smaller sheets and glueing them together ( thus creating the modern book ) made it simpler to access sections quickly. There has never been a fully agreed upon "interpretation" of the bible. This dates back before the first council of nicea.

From the time of the death of Christ to the first "bible " the stories were orally passed down . The four gospels that were chosen for the bible Matthew , luke , John and mark were chosen for a couple reasons . #1 the Christian leaders felt that these gospels best told the story. #2 these were the most popular amongst the followers . By most popular I mean , the agnostics would hold "church"in people's homes . Christians were being persecuted during these times , feed to lions in the collesseim , etc . They met in secret slowly building a following and strengthening their church. The four gospels were the four stories early Christian audiences enjoyed hearing the most . Also important to note is they these gospels clearly weren't written by the individuals they were named after . It is believed they received this names due to a common practice of the time . When a new religious document , letter , gospels etc was published it was commonly written by someone expressing their viewpoint . Since "Joe schmoo " or the common man would have a name that meant nothing to anyone and wouldn't gain much attention ,many authors used the disciples names as pseudonyms. Its a fact the gospels weren't written by mark , luke . John , Matthew , however who actually wrote them is unknown bc of this reason .

There are between 20-50 gospels that didn't make it into the current Christian bible . By now every one is familiar with the gospel of judas and some others I'm sure . These gospels are as authenticate as those included in the bible and if one reads up on the councils of nicea one finds that they weren't disregarded for being any less holy , some were seen as repetitive amongst other reasons . What's also interesting is the book of revelations causes so much contention amongst religious scholars . There seems to be a split in whether or not it's a forgery .

There is plenty more out there for those interested in the history . I personally find it fascinating . Whether you agree or disagree with it , Christianity impacts many peoples lives and it's a wonderful to learn a little more about it's history and formations . That may be a thread worth starting now that I think about it

Thanks for this

 

[darthska]

First off, the use of labels is extremely important.

Second, no, 'Christian' does not mean 'follower of Christ', or 'follower in Christ', or follower at all. You've been told wrong (which is a major problem w/ forming beliefs on just what you've been told, and not what you've found out).

Third, my friend, of course the word 'Christian' was used after the death of the Christian Jesus. Do you know when the Bible was actually written?

What does Christian mean then? Enlighten me.

Because to me, it means someone who follows and believes in Jesus's teaching and lives their life according to that. And there's plenty of people that agree with me.

He's what I found straight from Webster's dictionary:
[View media item 1119396

'Christ' obviously means Christ.

In Greek, adding -ianos to something (like Christianos) means 'diminutive form'.

In the original Aramaic, 'Christian' literally means 'smaller Christ'. This might seem exactly the same as 'follower of Christ', but it's not. A miniature version of someone is not the same as a follower.

 

[darthska]

Why are Christians, whether you're besties with Jesus or follow the "religion", some of thee worst, hypocritical parents?

Ex. 

First Lady's, I personally knew, adopt children, treat them like ****, but on Sunday, their hands are in the air, catching the spirit.

A big number of cholos, crips, bloods have overly religious parent(s).

These same Christians always the first to call out another parent on their children

Because they believe the same false interpretation of "Spare the rod, spoil the child" that so many others have been mislead to believe.

 

[moe fab]

 

I'm catholic and it's kind of annoying when atheists try to slam the bible with scientific facts. Like alright, the bible isn't meant to be taken literally...

The Bible is literal.

and as a Catholic, have you read the Bible as a whole?

Is the Bible really literal? Did a burning bush really talk to a man? Did two people really populate the entire world? If that's the case wouldn't Eve have to have slept with Cain n Abel? Wouldn't that be incest? What does God say of incest? Is it permissible?

 

If I lose my wallet and find it did god felt me find my wallet? Did I lose my wallet or did god lose my wallet for me to later bless me with finding it?

God doesn't control every little aspect of life like that. He has a master plan, but you losing your wallet or finding it doesn't have much to do with God. So I don't know what to say to that other then that's a dumb question if you think god is involved in every little thing like you losing your wallet.

If God doesn't control every aspect, how is everything "In his plan"?

 
I'm not here to please you.

 
So God HAS his hand in getting people Benzs? 

Son, my credit score, got me my vehicles. NOT GOD.

God has his hand in everything in your life.

Your every breath

You and your credit score

Your vehicles

Just because you don't

believe he's gonna judge you

doesn't mean he is gonna stop

showing you favor and mercy.

So God purposefully lets genocide, rape, torture, n those kinds of atrocities happen to innocent men, women, n children? Or because they aren't "Christian" they're lives are less important? Does he make you sin? If so, why, isn't sin wrong? Is God is purposely making you sin? Doesn't that make him tyrannical?

 

I'm here to hear the explanations behind their reasoning. If I agree or not does to bother me. It's all a learning experience.


But man, dinosaurs live 6k years ago?

I live by the Word and its

truth alone.

What is this truth you speak of? Dinosaurs walking with man? Jesus' story being a recycled one?

 As I said, as I will say

and as I will always say.

Go to the Word of God 

if you want to know God.

Don't try to save the world

with your own knowledge

it already has its set course.

What is the purpose of living if everything has been decided? What if we use our knowledge to save lives, cure cancer? Should we just stop n let them just die, simply kuz it's "God's will"?

 

if i choose to believe in no religion at all.....what will happen to me.

If you are a Christian 

heaven.

Hell otherwise.

Doesn't the Bible say "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone"? Or does that only apply to stoning people? If the parables are a metaphor, does that mean most of Jesus' teachings should be taken as so? Or are they literal n that scripture only means don't stone people? If it means don't judge kuz you too are a sinner, shouldn't you follow that teaching? Wouldn't that make you incapable of judging who will n who won't go to heaven?

 

if that were the case, you'd know that the "story of Jesus" predates Jesus

And those stories are false.

I know Christ so doesn't shake me a bit.

If you know Christ so well, wouldn't you know he doesn't want people to judge others? Wouldn't you know he didn't like zealots? Are you not being overzealous n judgmental with your condescending tone? Wouldn't that mean you don't know Jesus?

 

Did Jesus say that the path to heaven was to be a Christian? I'm not talking about him describing a Christian; I'm talking about him using the actual word.

Bonus question: which version of the Bible have you studied? NASB? NIV? Or the original texts, in their original languages?

Nope.

NKJV KJV

If you knew Christ so well, wouldn't you not need a book written by man to tell you what to believe? Wouldn't you know that the Bible is simply a worldly item n that it is in fact a book written n edited by man? If that is so, are you not merely believing what another man told you to believe?

These are serious questions OP. If you are as in touch with God, Jesus, n the Holy Spirit as you say you are, you would be able to answer these questions with YOUR own understanding n not a recycled Bible verse, no?

 

[durtyraspburry]

^ Exactly where I was headed.

Also worth noting: although there IS major speculation on whether or not certain Biblical characters even existed, there IS historical proof that Saul of Tarsus, (or 'Paul' in the New Testament), did.

But he ever actually met the Christ described in Christian history, and he even alludes to that in his writings.

And Saul of Tarsus was a known homophobic, misogynistic, murdering schizophrenic.

Now go look at how much of the New Testament he wrote.

Saul of Tarsus was one of the 

main persecutors of Christians.

Jesus revealed himself to him 

on the road to Damascus and this put

him into total blindness because of

the light that is God.

Ananias later restores his sight through

the power of the Holy Spirit at Damascus.

He converts and his name is changed to Paul

and is used by 

God to spread the Gospel throughout the

world.

 

[darthska]

I'm aware of the bible story.

However, like I said, he alluded to the fact that he never met Christ.

The light that blinded him was said to be god, bro; not Jesus.

 

[edshoecator]

 
Saul of Tarsus was one of the 

main persecutors of Christians.

Jesus revealed himself to him 

on the road to Damascus and this put

him into total blindness because of

the light that is God.

Ananias later restores his sight through

the power of the Holy Spirit at Damascus.

He converts and his name is changed to Paul

and is used by 

God to spread the Gospel throughout the

world.

Should blind people persecute Christians so they can regain their sight? Seems pretty ill of someone to take your sight to prove a point.

 

[durtyraspburry]

I'm aware of the bible story.

However, like I said, he alluded to the fact that he never met Christ.

The light that blinded him was said to be god, bro; not Jesus.

Jesus is the Son of God.

If anyone sees the Father it is 

death.

 

[durtyraspburry]

Lol yall aren't serious.

I'll be shrewd as a snake

 

[edshoecator]

 
Lol yall aren't serious.

you come off as a sheep. Do you think for yourself?

We should follow you for a day and see how you really live.

 

[thealumnus]

 
Nice read there.

Appreciate it.

Thanks for this

You guys are welcome, hope it is as insightful to you guys and everyone else as it was for me. 

 

[C.Magneto]

Back track, how can the bible be literal and allegorical at the same time?

 

[moe fab]

 

 

I'm catholic and it's kind of annoying when atheists try to slam the bible with scientific facts. Like alright, the bible isn't meant to be taken literally...

The Bible is literal.

and as a Catholic, have you read the Bible as a whole?

Is the Bible really literal? Did a burning bush really talk to a man? Did two people really populate the entire world? If that's the case wouldn't Eve have to have slept with Cain n Abel? Wouldn't that be incest? What does God say of incest? Is it permissible?

 

If I lose my wallet and find it did god felt me find my wallet? Did I lose my wallet or did god lose my wallet for me to later bless me with finding it?

God doesn't control every little aspect of life like that. He has a master plan, but you losing your wallet or finding it doesn't have much to do with God. So I don't know what to say to that other then that's a dumb question if you think god is involved in every little thing like you losing your wallet.

If God doesn't control every aspect, how is everything "In his plan"?

 
I'm not here to please you.

 
So God HAS his hand in getting people Benzs? 

Son, my credit score, got me my vehicles. NOT GOD.

God has his hand in everything in your life.

Your every breath

You and your credit score

Your vehicles

Just because you don't

believe he's gonna judge you

doesn't mean he is gonna stop

showing you favor and mercy.

So God purposefully lets genocide, rape, torture, n those kinds of atrocities happen to innocent men, women, n children? Or because they aren't "Christian" they're lives are less important? Does he make you sin? If so, why, isn't sin wrong? Is God is purposely making you sin? Doesn't that make him tyrannical?

 

I'm here to hear the explanations behind their reasoning. If I agree or not does to bother me. It's all a learning experience.


But man, dinosaurs live 6k years ago?

I live by the Word and its

truth alone.

What is this truth you speak of? Dinosaurs walking with man? Jesus' story being a recycled one?

 As I said, as I will say

and as I will always say.

Go to the Word of God 

if you want to know God.

Don't try to save the world

with your own knowledge

it already has its set course.

What is the purpose of living if everything has been decided? What if we use our knowledge to save lives, cure cancer? Should we just stop n let them just die, simply kuz it's "God's will"?

 

if i choose to believe in no religion at all.....what will happen to me.

If you are a Christian 

heaven.

Hell otherwise.

Doesn't the Bible say "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone"? Or does that only apply to stoning people? If the parables are a metaphor, does that mean most of Jesus' teachings should be taken as so? Or are they literal n that scripture only means don't stone people? If it means don't judge kuz you too are a sinner, shouldn't you follow that teaching? Wouldn't that make you incapable of judging who will n who won't go to heaven?

 

if that were the case, you'd know that the "story of Jesus" predates Jesus

And those stories are false.

I know Christ so doesn't shake me a bit.

If you know Christ so well, wouldn't you know he doesn't want people to judge others? Wouldn't you know he didn't like zealots? Are you not being overzealous n judgmental with your condescending tone? Wouldn't that mean you don't know Jesus?

 

Did Jesus say that the path to heaven was to be a Christian? I'm not talking about him describing a Christian; I'm talking about him using the actual word.

Bonus question: which version of the Bible have you studied? NASB? NIV? Or the original texts, in their original languages?

Nope.

NKJV KJV

If you knew Christ so well, wouldn't you not need a book written by man to tell you what to believe? Wouldn't you know that the Bible is simply a worldly item n that it is in fact a book written n edited by man? If that is so, are you not merely believing what another man told you to believe?

These are serious questions OP. If you are as in touch with God, Jesus, n the Holy Spirit as you say you are, you would be able to answer these questions with YOUR own understanding n not a recycled Bible verse, no?

 

[durtyraspburry]

Back track, how can the bible be literal and allegorical at the same time?

A few chapters contains allegory

like the The Song of Vineyard in Isaiah 5

and some others,

all the books are literal.

 

[doublemesh96]

@ some of the responses on the last few pages

ig·no·rance
ˈignərəns/
noun
lack of knowledge or information.
"he acted in ignorance of basic procedures"
synonyms: incomprehension of, unawareness of, unconsciousness of, unfamiliarity with, inexperience with, lack of knowledge about, lack of information about; informalcluelessness about
"a statement that shows a complete ignorance of the regulations"
lack of knowledge, lack of education, unenlightenment, illiteracy;
lack of intelligence, stupidity, foolishness, idiocy

 

[durtyraspburry]

 
Is the Bible really literal? Did a burning bush really talk to a man? Did two people really populate the entire world? If that's the case wouldn't Eve have to have slept with Cain n Abel? Wouldn't that be incest? What does God say of incest? Is it permissible?

Yes its literal.

If God doesn't control every aspect, how is everything "In his plan"?

He is all knowing.

He allows us free will, but it doesnt mean

He can't foresee our actions based on our hearts.

So God purposefully lets genocide, rape, torture, n those kinds of atrocities happen to innocent men, women, n children? Or because they aren't "Christian" they're lives are less important? Does he make you sin? If so, why, isn't sin wrong? Is God is purposely making you sin? Doesn't that make him tyrannical?

All men are sinners

He doesn't just kill off murderers because

We find them evil

He is just and merciful.

We sin because we are 

​separated from God.

We have no sense of good

or justice without him.

What is this truth you speak of? Dinosaurs walking with man? Jesus' story being a recycled one?

The truth is Jesus Christ 

is Lord and that what is to come

is greater than what you think.

So turn away from your temporary

mindset and trust in the Lord.

What is the purpose of living if everything has been decided? What if we use our knowledge to save lives, cure cancer? Should we just stop n let them just die, simply kuz it's "God's will"?

The purpose of living is to help

build God's Kingdom on Earth.

If it is not their time, God won't let death

grab them.

Even if you prolong lives

everyone still will die and all of us will face

the judge.

Doesn't the Bible say "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone"? Or does that only apply to stoning people? If the parables are a metaphor, does that mean most of Jesus' teachings should be taken as so? Or are they literal n that scripture only means don't stone people? If it means don't judge kuz you too are a sinner, shouldn't you follow that teaching? Wouldn't that make you incapable of judging who will n who won't go to heaven?

In a nutshell

Do not judge others as if you 

have not sinned yourself.

The parables are spiritual lessons 

taught through allegory.

The disciples did not understand

most of what he was saying until

he died and rose again.

Believe and you shall know.

The Word is for God's children 

to understand through the interpretation

of the Holy Spirit.

If you know Christ so well, wouldn't you know he doesn't want people to judge others? Wouldn't you know he didn't like zealots? Are you not being overzealous n judgmental with your condescending tone? Wouldn't that mean you don't know Jesus?

I refer to the Bible for my answers

I avoid using my own self-knowledge

I only use what the Spirit has taught me.

I enjoy the stanza format 

as an artist.

You are taking 

offense to the fact that

I am giving awareness to sin

and that we all will be judged by it.

If you knew Christ so well, wouldn't you not need a book written by man to tell you what to believe? Wouldn't you know that the Bible is simply a worldly item n that it is in fact a book written n edited by man? If that is so, are you not merely believing what another man told you to believe?

The Book is written by mean all

inspired by the Holy Spirit.

I know Christ through Spirit

and through the Word of God

that is the Bible.

These are serious questions OP. If you are as in touch with God, Jesus, n the Holy Spirit as you say you are, you would be able to answer these questions with YOUR own understanding n not a recycled Bible verse, no?

The Holy Spirit is knowledge

The Word of God gives the answers

I am posting the understandings I have gained

through the guidance of the Spirit.

Anything else would be opinions

from my own knowledge, which is

very misleading.

 

[doublemesh96]

Xo is filleting y'all with the blade of The Lord

 

[doublemesh96]

Christians, you all close your prayers with "Amen" correct?

Why Amen? And where do you think that word derived from? Have you ever asked yourself that question?

If not, would you care to know? And would you accept the truth or chose to view it in a way that's suiting to your personal beliefs?

 

[durtyraspburry]

Go ahead my friend.

 

[edshoecator]

 

you could've just said you don't think for yourself.