Today I just have an ominous feeling we're in the beginning of the end of times.

[PRIME]

Arguing with non believers online turns from debate, to defending your beliefs that you hold dear and your faith that you put your life on against endless bashing.


I don't want any parts of it. Because a lot of people who jump into the debates aren't there for a debate. They're there to slip in their two slick jabs to try to get a rise out of someone.

Yep then they say believers are trying to push stuff onto them.

Well that's because they do.

What you do in your mind or your home is up to you; what I do in my mind and my home is up to me.

Right?

"I believe (insert belief here), and as such, in my house, we (insert practice here)."

That's not pushing your belief on anyone.

"I believe (insert belief here), and as such, in my house, we (insert practice here), and everyone else needs to do the same."

THAT'S... pushing your beliefs on someone else.

You're assuming all Christians do that though. Thats ignorance.

Thats just like some white couple assuming that the black guy walking behind them is going to rob them, just because he is black. All based on stereotypes that they have pre-programmed in their mind about black people.

Thats what you're doing right now.. You're stereotyping Christians.

And whats sad is, you should know better considering you used to be one of us. You should know that all of us aren't that way. Were you that way? Did you force your religion off on others? Because if you're answer is "no I wasn't that way", then you're contradicting yourself.

If you weren't that way, you should know that you weren't the only one who wasn't.

Because according to your statement, I am led to assume that if thats what you believe Christians do, thats what you practiced at one point, am I not?

So, at what point did you change?

As Christians, we are to share the good book and the word of God. Sharing the light to others does not mean forcing them to see the light. That is a humanly flaw that is misinterpreted by a lot of people. Some people think that they have to CHANGE people, or it is their job to make as many people Christians as possible, as if we're making commission on every soul we save. Thats not the case. IF you share the word of God with your brother, and he does not accept it, then that is his decision and his fate will be left up to the father.

While I agree, there are a lot of things screwed up with the mentalities of organized religion; faith on the other hand has never been flawed. Your faith is between you, the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Organized religion is the congregation of man to worship. If you don't like the way the MAN you are worshiping with goes about his business, find a new place to worship. Nobody is forcing you to be around Christians that you feel aren't genuine or have practices that you don't agree with, such as forcing religion onto others. That is when you find a new church, or worship in your own home. Surround yourself with different people of faith. Ones who feel the same way about God as you and practices worship and follows their faith similar to yours.

Its always amazing to me how people write off God based on what man does.


But hey, like I said, I'm not trying to get into an online debate about my faith. You believe what you believe, and I believe what I believe. And I know neither of us will budge, so..... Yeah....

 

[the nomad]

http://niketalk.com/t/537435/wow-london-cleaver-attacks

 

[darthska]

You typed all that out, and the very beginning of your argument was flawed, because I'm not assuming that all Christians push beliefs.

however, it is not an assumption that most Christians do that. And I'm not even going to entertain that observation with you as if it were untrue. You can live in a world where all stereotypes are false and it's unfair to assume someone is unsafe just because they're wearing a ski mask in a dark alley and they have a knife, and I'll stay in reality where, yes, most Christians absolutely are pushing their beliefs outside of their own minds and homes.

All? Nah. Most? Yes.

Assume? Nah. Observe? Yes.

 

[digglo]

Just let me see the new Star Wars movie....

 

[michigan]

Do y'all not know how effed up World War II was? 60 Million people died

Effed up things have always happened and will continue to happen

this^ people fail to realize all of the men in our country had to go to war as long as they were not disabled. All the women had to work in helping the men make weapons and supplies for the war.  In today's time there is no draft.  back when my dad and uncles were growing up they had to be worried about being drafted to Vietnam, a war that they didn't believe in.    It's nothing like that nowadays.   It's even more peaceful then the 90's were.  

 

[frankmatthews]

So yall are really just gonna keep posting and ignore the issues I raised? I guess itss easier for u not to think logically about your religious beliefs.

 

[boris]

I wish I still had some reps.

Arguing with non believers online turns from debate, to defending your beliefs that you hold dear and your faith that you put your life on against endless bashing.

I don't want any parts of it. Because a lot of people who jump into the debates aren't there for a debate. They're there to slip in their two slick jabs to try to get a rise out of someone.

It goes both ways. In fact, sometimes it turns into believer vs. believer when two faiths are being discussed. It's not just non-believers, it can be anyone. 

Besides, isn't the point to defend one's faith? Shouldn't believers revel in the opportunity to discuss their faith? 

 

[medicalpartisan]

Nope. Because we're not in the seven years of tribulation yet. 

 

[keano]

I agree things are really changing and quite rapidly

 

[PRIME]

You typed all that out, and the very beginning of your argument was flawed, because I'm not assuming that all Christians push beliefs.

however, it is not an assumption that most Christians do that. And I'm not even going to entertain that observation with you as if it were untrue. You can live in a world where all stereotypes are false and it's unfair to assume someone is unsafe just because they're wearing a ski mask in a dark alley and they have a knife, and I'll stay in reality where, yes, most Christians absolutely are pushing their beliefs outside of their own minds and homes.

All? Nah. Most? Yes.

Assume? Nah. Observe? Yes.

Thats why I didn't want to discuss the matter with you. You already think you're high and mighty.

You post as if you've got it all figured out, but you haven't explained a thing.

When is the last time you were stopped on a street and told you need to read a bible and they wouldn't let you leave until you quoted a verse?

Because I can name countless times I've gone online or to work and heard someone bashing religion.

Your post is based on assumptions, because you haven't met all Christians nor have you met most Christians. This is a huge planet bruh, I'm more than positive that you haven't met most of the Christians in the world.

All? No. Most? You don't know. Most of the ones YOU have encountered? Maybe.

Sounds more like it.

 
I wish I still had some reps.


Arguing with non believers online turns from debate, to defending your beliefs that you hold dear and your faith that you put your life on against endless bashing.


I don't want any parts of it. Because a lot of people who jump into the debates aren't there for a debate. They're there to slip in their two slick jabs to try to get a rise out of someone.

It goes both ways. In fact, sometimes it turns into believer vs. believer when two faiths are being discussed. It's not just non-believers, it can be anyone. 

Besides, isn't the point to defend one's faith? Shouldn't believers revel in the opportunity to discuss their faith? 

If someone doesn't believe the same faith as you, that makes them a non believer of your faith. That still makes is believer vs non believer in both sides cases.

And yes, you are supposed to defend your faith, but just as I posted a page back, most people are just say dumb **** because they want to get a rise out of someone.

Yes we should be overjoyed to talk about our faith and to praise our God at any chance we get. But that does no equate to forcing our religion on others.

Just because I tell you how great Jesus is, that doesn't mean I'm trying to force my religion on you. Thats me expressing how happy I am and what the Lord has done for ME.

There's a fine line between the two. And at times I feel like both parties involved don't understand that.

Jus because I say "Jesus saved me, I am so happy he has blessed me with good health and continues to protect me" that doesn't mean I expect you to pick up a bible and come to church with me on Sunday. But somehow, some people feel so uncomfortable with others being religious, that they think they are being forced into religion. Makes no sense to me.

 

[gllahone84]

You sound very unintelligent right now

 

[htg designs]

But somehow, some people feel so uncomfortable with others being religious, that they think they are being forced into religion. Makes no sense to me.

they feel that, since you feel you doin what is right and they aren't down wit that, then its implied subconsciously that they are in the wrong and can feel offended.

 

[deleted]

If someone doesn't believe the same faith as you, that makes them a non believer of your faith. That still makes is believer vs non believer in both sides cases.

Atheism is not a faith.

And yes, you are supposed to defend your faith, but just as I posted a page back, most people are just say dumb **** because they want to get a rise out of someone.

I've been told numerous times that if I don't find God I'm going to burn for eternity. Let's not act like atheists are the only group hurling incendiary remarks.

Yes we should be overjoyed to talk about our faith and to praise our God at any chance we get. But that does no equate to forcing our religion on others.

Just because I tell you how great Jesus is, that doesn't mean I'm trying to force my religion on you. Thats me expressing how happy I am and what the Lord has done for ME.

And just because I don't believe in a god doesn't mean that I think you shouldn't believe. Each person has their own belief system (or lack thereof) which works for them and I think in large part that should be a private thing.

There's a fine line between the two. And at times I feel like both parties involved don't understand that.

I agree with this. I can't stomach the intolerant persona shared by a lot of atheists.

Jus because I say "Jesus saved me, I am so happy he has blessed me with good health and continues to protect me" that doesn't mean I expect you to pick up a bible and come to church with me on Sunday. But somehow, some people feel so uncomfortable with others being religious, that they think they are being forced into religion. Makes no sense to me.

The inverse to this is that I don't need pity or prayer to help me atone for my lack of faith. I'm fine.

 

[teamjordan79]

Religious folks aren't really going anywhere and there is already a resurgence of Christian fundamentalism in the US. Why? well the non-believing, enlightened folks simply don't reproduce as much as the religious ones. There was even a study I read about where if you don't trust the army, are pro-gay marriage and soft drugs, you are more likely to live alone and have no kids. I only partially believe this however, since we are in the information age after all and kids aren't always a carbon copy of their parents.

 

[htg designs]

Atheism is not a faith.
I've been told numerous times that if I don't find God I'm going to burn for eternity. Let's not act like atheists are the only group hurling incendiary remarks.
And just because I don't believe in a god doesn't mean that I think you shouldn't believe. Each person has their own belief system (or lack thereof) which works for them and I think in large part that should be a private thing.
I agree with this. I can't stomach the intolerant persona shared by a lot of atheists.
The inverse to this is that I don't need pity or prayer to help me atone for my lack of faith. I'm fine.

what made you put dinos in ur avy?( nothing to do with nothing, curious)

 

[htg designs]

Religious folks aren't really going anywhere and there is already a resurgence of Christian fundamentalism in the US. Why? well the non-believing, enlightened folks simply don't reproduce as much as the religious ones. There was even a study I read about where if you don't trust the army, are pro-gay marriage and soft drugs, you are more likely to live alone and have no kids. I only partially believe this however, since we are in the information age after all and kids aren't always a carbon copy of their parents.

Bible does say be fruitful and multiply, that children are a blessing and blessed is he that has is quiverful

 

[deleted]

I love dinosaurs. I've always been very interested in them since I was a kid.

The pictures are from a trading card series from the 80s called "Dinosaurs Attack!" in case you were wondering.

Think "Mars Attacks!" with dinosaurs instead of martians.

 

[htg designs]

I love dinosaurs. I've always been very interested in them since I was a kid.

The pictures are from a trading card series from the 80s called "Dinosaurs Attack!" in case you were wondering.

Think "Mars Attacks!" with dinosaurs instead of martians.

oh ok, coo

 

[ps2child]

All I wanna say is I agree with OP.

 

[PRIME]

If someone doesn't believe the same faith as you, that makes them a non believer of your faith. That still makes is believer vs non believer in both sides cases.

Atheism is not a faith.

And yes, you are supposed to defend your faith, but just as I posted a page back, most people are just say dumb **** because they want to get a rise out of someone.

I've been told numerous times that if I don't find God I'm going to burn for eternity. Let's not act like atheists are the only group hurling incendiary remarks.

Yes we should be overjoyed to talk about our faith and to praise our God at any chance we get. But that does no equate to forcing our religion on others.

Just because I tell you how great Jesus is, that doesn't mean I'm trying to force my religion on you. Thats me expressing how happy I am and what the Lord has done for ME.

And just because I don't believe in a god doesn't mean that I think you shouldn't believe. Each person has their own belief system (or lack thereof) which works for them and I think in large part that should be a private thing.

There's a fine line between the two. And at times I feel like both parties involved don't understand that.

I agree with this. I can't stomach the intolerant persona shared by a lot of atheists.

Jus because I say "Jesus saved me, I am so happy he has blessed me with good health and continues to protect me" that doesn't mean I expect you to pick up a bible and come to church with me on Sunday. But somehow, some people feel so uncomfortable with others being religious, that they think they are being forced into religion. Makes no sense to me.

The inverse to this is that I don't need pity or prayer to help me atone for my lack of faith. I'm fine.

I don't feel like requoting everything so I'll just do bullet points I guess

• True, but Boris stated that a lot of times it can become one faith vs another, so thats why I touched on that.
• I can see that happening, and while yes it does happen a lot to some people who don't believe, I can also say that I've been called stupid for believing in what I believe in. Both parties have their guilty people. But I don't look at every non religious person as some ******* who thinks he's so much smarter than everyone. Hell, I dated a atheist chick... She never said a bad thing about Christianity. So I know all atheists aren't *****.
• Thats where I think there should be a common understanding on the matter. Yes, I will offer you the good word of God, because as a Christian I do want to share it, but also I do have to respect your space. If you refuse, I shouldn't jump down your back about it. That won't stop me from feeling and believing in what I believe in, and I will be proud of my faith. IF it does make you uncomfortable, that will not go unseen. I'm not the type of person to shout my faith at you to try to change your ways. We are adults, a grown man will believe what he wants. Because as a Christian, I believe in forgiveness, and if you were to ever come to me saying "I am sorry for the things I said about your faith, I want to become a believer" I wouldn't turn my back on you no matter what you've said in the past. But look at it this way, thats just the type of person I am. I am Christian, but at the end of the day I am human as well, and as a human I will react differently than others. Every man doesn't react the same. Some Christians may fall into humanly instincts and refuse you, but at that point if you were to ever want to follow a Christian path, you are at that point my brother. I wouldn't "stone" you for your past actions.
  
  And even if you never came to me saying you wanted to become a man of faith, I RESPECT that because as a man I respect your choice. Does that mean we can't be cool? No, we can kick it. Will I share my happiness in faith with you? Yes, from time to time I may say to you "Man, God has been so good to me". But you gotta look at it this way, thats my faith. And I would hope that you respect my faith. Even though you don't agree, I would at least hope you respect me and my beliefs and accept that this is what makes me happy. Don't shoot me down, because I am not going to shoot you down about your beliefs. There should always be respect. I'm not going to come to you and say "Man, you need to stop being a sinner and come to church with me". Because you have made it apparent that you don't want that. Why would I ridicule you? At that point, I'm disrespecting you.
  
• If thats what you feel, as I said above, I have to respect that. Something I feel like is missing in all of this is respect. Thats the root of all the arguing and back and forth half of the time. A lot of people just don't have respect for each other when it comes to what they believe in. If I say I'm Christian, you (not you specifically, but for the sake of my point) would call me a fool for believing in what I can't see. Then we would engage in hours of arguing and debate out sides until we agree to disagree.
  
  But if there was respect between the two of us, we would have agreed to disagree much sooner without the name calling, insults, and bashing that went on for hours beforehand.

I have been cool with people who are non religious, Buddhist, Muslim, etc. And there have been no problems. Why? Because we RESPECTED each other and knew not to cross that line.

I used to skate with a group of guys and these cats named Muhammad and Osama wouldn't come chill with us until they finished praying. I never crossed the line and said some sideways **** to them about it. And they never came at me about wearing my cross and how I handle myself according to what I believe in.

 

[htg designs]

To add to the og topic:

Everything that exists in our finite realm has a beginning and has an end. Time itself, as researched by scientists like Stephen Hawking (agnostic), is said to have a beginning, so It would only make sense for it to have an end. Even if that isn't true, on a smaller scale, its easier to believe that our civilization will will not last forever. If you believe we began in Eden or with a Big Bang, they both depict a time when human civilization wasn't in existence. Creation can only happen once and after that is complete, the final phase is destruction/ deconstruction, which looms closer to as time passes. This is why I agree that we are in the end times, simply because this isn't the beginning. I hold faithful to the teachings of the Bible which does prophecy what has and what is to come as well. But there is no time frame ever given. Human kind as we know it can exist for another 1000 yrs. Paul in the Bible wrote that he was living in the end times too. No one know when "the end" will come, but whats most important is what you do with the time you have.

 

[boris]

Yes we should be overjoyed to talk about our faith and to praise our God at any chance we get. But that does no equate to forcing our religion on others.

Just because I tell you how great Jesus is, that doesn't mean I'm trying to force my religion on you. Thats me expressing how happy I am and what the Lord has done for ME.

There's a fine line between the two. And at times I feel like both parties involved don't understand that.

Jus because I say "Jesus saved me, I am so happy he has blessed me with good health and continues to protect me" that doesn't mean I expect you to pick up a bible and come to church with me on Sunday. But somehow, some people feel so uncomfortable with others being religious, that they think they are being forced into religion. Makes no sense to me.

Right, but why express religious views when it can obviously be an issue with both people of different faiths and people of no faith?

I think the reason is that there is an attempt to force religion onto others. The purpose of talking about your god and your faith is demonstrate that power they have in your life and to entice non-believers. You can't keep it to yourself because you're supposed to share it with others. 

When it comes to religion, it's typically a matter of eternal life or eternal damnation. I imagine that most religious people want to force their religion onto others because they want to save people from eternal damnation. You have to express that message because that non-believer could die at any moment. 

You think that the Bible has a message that is applicable to everyone's life, don't you? You think that everyone should be capable of being saved by Jesus, don't you? If that's the case, you do expect people to pick up a Bible because you believe that it's in their best interest to believe and accept that message. 

 

[jaysrcrak]

I think it all comes down to letting each other cook.
If a person says something like "Thank you Jesus. You really blessed me" Why do atheists feel the need to say, "you're stupid to believe in a fairy tale", or the other things atheists say. People can say what they want to say.

If a person says " I dont beleive in God" or "I dont know if there is God." Why do the Christians feel the need to say, "well you're goin to hell," or other things that Christians say. Let people think what they want to think

Why does it matter to you if you are on the other side? Let people do what they want to do.

But if you do want to engage in conversation with the other side, whether to learn or out of curiosity of why they think they way they do, then go into with
respect for the other person. Dont try to convert them to religion or rationalize why their religion make no sense.

 

[jaysrcrak]

It's kinda the same as people believeing in ghosts.

There is no actual science that proves ghosts exist, only psuedosciences. But yet some people believe and some dont.

For the people that believe, there is no way that you can convince them that ghosts dont exist. Probably because they had some of personal experience that leads them to believe.

For the people that dont believe. Generally there is no way to convince them that ghosts exist. And they try to convince the people that do that they are sill for believing such things.

Its the same exact thing

 

[the nomad]