What Does ANYONE Have To Do To Be Considered Greater Than Mike Jordan?

[DCAllAfrican]

Hear me out first.

Not what anyone has to do to be a better basketball player.
Not what anyone has to do to be a more marketable player.
Not what anyone has to do to transcend the game as Jordan did.
But collectively (all of the things above) be able to do what Jordan did for the sport. Just in a different era.

Is it possible for anyone within the next 50 years (as long as those that viewed Jordan are still alive) to do anything that will cause us to say, "He is greater than Mike."

Or will it always be almost blasphemous for us to say that someone is greater than Mike even if we really believe it. Or is Mike the best ever and there is nothing anyone can do to change our minds?

This is not just about LeBron but what would he have to do to be considered greater? How many rings? Or will he suffer because he come too soon after Jordan ( No gay stuff ).

Discuss........

PS: Leave Kobe's name out of this because he has no business being mentioned at all. That is my man but let's have a KObe free post.

 

[ex carrabba fan]

I would say lead a semi decent team [I would say on par with Cleveland's current talent] to 7 or more titles

Generally speaking, if said player can do that it's assumed he would put up more than impressive all around numbers while at the same time displaying exceptional leadership

 

[DCAllAfrican]

My man wassup

See I have already heard folks say that LeBron has TOO MUCH talent around him. Almost diminishing the idea that he is truly winning this all by himself. (As if Jordan didn't play alongside a Top 50 HOF'er). Would anyone agree with that?

On PAPER, time for time, the names of the other Cavs are more recognizable than the names of the other Bulls.
Shaq
Jamison
Mo Williams
Big Z

Are much better (on paper and recognizable) than the rest of the Bulls.So that might be why someone made that statement.

Interested in hearing other opinions.

 

[got shoes]

we had one of these threads like 6 months ago

 

[eeibaby]

Bron definitely has to win more titles than Jordan for sure to be considered greater but some people might put it over his head that he lost 1 finals.

But I honestly don't see anyone be considered better than Jordan, dude had it all and made a huge impact on the game of basketball. I know people will come in here and say Magic & Bird globalized (sp) the game but Jordan took it to a whole other level.

 

[brandon3000]

I think the next generation will only know Kobe or Lebron u know.... or Durant.

but those that saw MJ play...

those who watched him do what he did...

to us there will never be another. Lebron can get keep the number and Kobe can keep sticking his tongue out... but there's only one

 

[outkast9984]

Originally Posted by got shoes

we had one of these threads like 6 months ago

exactly... 
  

 

[doublejs07]

If you win a title, you become a "household" name so to speak. People start paying attention to the role players amongst other things. Aside from Shaq, no one has accomplished anything on the Cavs. Aside from Lebron and Mo, the whole roster is either past their prime or hasn't reached their potential. I'm not saying that they are bad players, because they fit a need on the Cleveland roster. In Lebron's case, he has to keep winning titles with a rag-tag group of players to eventually be considered greater than MJ. Like you said, MJ had Pip...one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history. He also had the luxury of playing with a guy like Dennis Rodman and the VERY underrated Horace Grant. It goes on and on. In Lebron's case, he, along with the Cavs, have a LONG way to go. In today's NBA, I just don't see a three-peat being done twice and someone leaving with 6 or more titles under their belt.

 

[air max 87]

you act as if the team MJ had around him was buns....he had a pretty good supporting cast.....

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Good points DOubleJ. I am also under the impressions that we won't see teams dominate in team sports the way the Bulls did. It can happen but I am not Mr. Cleo either.

So if LeBron sporadically wins 4 rings within an 18 year career would that be enough? That is a question I pose.

I agree LeBron does have a long way to go with his team but we will see what happens this season

Originally Posted by air max 87

you act as if the team MJ had around him was buns....he had a pretty good supporting cast.....

Actually I was simply comparing the individual name recognition and perceived talent levels of the other Bulls and the other Cavs to the casual NBA fan. Don't see how you got that from my statements. But per-time, LeBron's supporting cast is better. That was my point. Not "acting like" Jordan had bums around him. I know bums don't win championships. Take that somewhere else please. Anything of substance to add to the discussion?

 

[noreasonabledoubt]

For NT....nothing, until all the people who saw him come up against Boston and Detriot, destroy us in '91, up until his shot over Bryon...and even coming back late in his career still avg. in the 20's, all these people need to stop posting, move on or die. Until then...nothing.

 

[eeibaby]

Originally Posted by air max 87

you act as if the team MJ had around him was buns....he had a pretty good supporting cast.....

The team was good because they had good chemistry, you can't put good players together and automatically win

 

[darthska]

ROTY
5 NBA MVPs
10 time scoring leader
3 time steals leader
6 Finals
Finals MVP every time
more PPG in the playoffs than the regular season (30.1 during the reg. season jumps up to 33.4 during the playoffs)

I mean, that's just the beginning of a career resume we need to look at, not to mention 2 gold medals, a DPOY, and a few other things.

As far as looking past his career, he took what was being done before him to the next level. The flashiness that was in those that played before him wasn't done as productive as he did it; the individually productive people that played before him weren't as flashy as him.

He put together flash and individual dominance to the point where he became a global icon... without a championship.

Then he adjusted his game a little to be more team-oriented while still maintaining his individual dominance. Then the championships started pouring in, so there was nothing left, except 'rinse and repeat'.

Dominate from the beginning, play with flair, continue dominance while winning championships, keep PR nightmares under wraps; that should be a good start for anyone who wants to replicate what Jordan was in his career.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Having the talent and ability is not enough, for you to be seen as the best you also need to be put in a situation to maximize your abilities. Jordan had Scottie one of the greatest players in the history of the game, as well as Phil Jackson one of the greatest coaches ever.

When a player of grater ability also gets the amenities of environment that allows him to reach his full potential.

 

[doublejs07]

NT....off the top of my head, was there a NBA champion besides the Bulls in the past 30 years or so that's won the Chip w/o the luxury of having a dominant 4/5 in their lineup? This is another reason why I'm just not really feeling like the Cavs are built to win right now. If Lebron stays, they'll make some changes...however, with the way the current team is constructed, I have my doubts. This is why I appreciate the MJ-led Bulls so much....they had the right mix of on-court chemistry and coaching to make it all work.

 

[seymore cake]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

So if LeBron sporadically wins 4 rings within an 18 year career would that be enough? That is a question I pose.

Not to take anything away from him but it won't be, he has to atleast equal him as far as the major accomplishments.

6 Titles
6 Finals MVP's
5 League MVP's
Defensive Player of the Year award
10 All NBA First Teams

All while being the face of the league, then the serious discussion begins and we'll take into account all of the rest of his accomplishments

 

[westcoastsfinest]

more championships.

 i kid i kid


IMO to be greater than jordan...its more than winning rings, medals and MVPs...you gotta become an icon and what i mean by that is globalizing the sport, revolutionizing the shoe game and endoresments to the max

i mean when everyone sees that jumpman logo almost everyone knows its mike...the fact is that he brought attention to the casual fans and non fans that dont even watch sports......................thats big shoes to fill which is why its unfair for players after mike to even be compared or mentioned in the same breath.

thats a lot of pressure for them


just my 2 cents

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Don't agree that he has to equal MJ in the # of Chips.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Now what if he did all of that in the year 2070, would it be enough? Because I am thinking the reason it wouldn't be enough NOW is because Black Mike just kinda left us recently.

Originally Posted by dreClark

Don't agree that he has to equal MJ in the # of Chips.

Yea that is why I just settled on 4.

. I think that # is so unreachable.

And I think LeBron's physical tools are so much more advanced than anyone has seen (due to advances technological training and diet and good genetics) and the collaboration of that with such a high skill level allows a little leeway in terms of demanding that he has to win 6 rings to be better than Mike.

 

[ikari xd]

Does anyone believe it diminishes the argument that Jordan's supporting cast wasn't that good (talent-wise) when they were one bad call away from the ECF without him?

And as a generation, I think we've put MJ's career on a mythical level. Though I believe a few may realistically come close to being that great over the next 50 years, MJ will still be the yardstick, and as we get older, I think the mythical nature of his career and ability will overrule logic in these kinds of discussion.

 

[westcoastsfinest]

mike is an icon along with ali and the babe

IMO those 3 make up sports icons...the question should really be who is the most iconic out of those 3

 

[651akathepaul]

The deck is stacked against Lebron. That's for sure. It's going to be really hard to transcend the game like Jordan did. That's the one thing I don't think Lebron will ever be able to top, but who knows?

He's gonna have to win more titles for one.

Jordan just did so much for the game and his team in the 90's was seriously unstoppable. His image, the logo, everything....It's Jordan man. That name IS this NBA.

 

[darthska]

- put up individual stats that belong in the argument of some of the best individual stats of all time
- be on a team that sustains excellence to the point that the team is argued as one of the best of all time
- play with a quality and flair that has you as the face of your sport for nearly your entire career
- keep your name from being dragged through the mud

Do those 4 things over the course of your career, and you have replicated what Jordan did.

LeBron is certainly putting up stats that put him in the argument as one of the best of all time, but the Cavs teams he's been on, has anyone ever called them one of the greatest NBA teams ever? Even 1 of his Cavs' teams?

And LeBron is certainly the face of the league right now, with his back-2-back MVPs, but this needs to continue, along with his first championship coming in, and then more championships... and the individual stats and flair needs to continue the whole time (not like Payton and Zo on the Heat; yes, they contributed to that championship in my opinion, but they were shells of their former selves).

And never appear in court. Does that mean Jordan (or any global icon before him in any sport) never did anything wrong? HEEEELLLL no. It just means their PR people kept their face from being dragged through the mud. Tiger, Kobe, Roeth... whatever, Iverson, etc.

Stockton played with a flair an individual dominance... but no championships, no MVPs.

Shaq and Duncan have nice championship collections... but they are both bigs, so they didn't play with much flair and flash. And no MVPs.

I know you requested to keep Kobe out of it, but he has the rings and the flair... but there's the SI cover with his mugshot on it.

I think that's why Larry Bird said that LeBron could be better than everyone when it's all said and done. He has been in the league long enough to have gotten in trouble by now, but we haven't heard about it. So either he's not getting in trouble, or his PR people are doing a good enough job to keep him marketable at an elite level. He has the individual flair and stats, so what's missing, just like with Jordan's early career, is the championships and the team that gets put in the discussion of all-time great teams.

 

[p mac one]

I think for people that grew up idolizing Mike there's no way anyone will top him unless some really extraordinary circumstances happen.

 

[mo matik]

Dominate a decade as the best player on the best team.