10-15 years from now....Drake, top 10 DOA?

[alex2182]

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Originally Posted by alex2182

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Game, set and match. When people get past who the artist is, and listen to what a Hov verse, and a Ye verse, and see what they actually are saying, then you can see why the praise for Drake is warranted. 

  

 You guys have got to be kidding me. Im neither a Drake or Jay fan but to say Jay's verses on Welcome to The Jungle, Who Gon Stop Me, Murder to Excellence or Why I Love You is not better than Drake's verse on Good Girls Go Bad, Headlines, Trust Issues, Tony Montana, Im on One

. And to argue if you are going to mention So Far Gone as a classic, you guys gotta look at it musically cuz rap wise it is good but most definitely not a "classic".

Honestly, I listen to those verses from Jay with a 

 face on. Like, its cool, is good, its just not entertaining, and I personally don't find them really enjoyable. I haven't played basically any Jay verse from that album since its release.
And I would agree with that last point, and that's another thing Drake has in his favor. His production match what he's trying to do with his lyrics and concepts to a T.

    Dude is rapping and being lyrical after a few listens the lyrics sink in. With Drake everything he says you get off bat and it's not even deep. I listen to Drake's verses with a

 face cuz dude always raps about the same things, yea Headlines was different but "Make me catch a body like that" just aint him. Idk how saying dude is going to be Top 10 when his songs with the most buzz are him singing. After awhile dude is gonna realize that is his niche.    

 

[kaycurrency]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Kanyes Verse on "Made in America"> any Hov verse on WTT

You can't be serious champ.........you just can't be.

But to go as far as to say "Hip Hop doesnt need this"....Who the hell are they to make such a statement?....


Someone who obviously loves and appreciates the history of rap as you obviously don't with even having the audacity to even make this thread and pose this question to the public.


But LL made "I need love"....One of the most recognizable Songs in Hip Hop History....Did we need that?

 

[jc619er]

He'll never be top 10. And as far as a rapper that was "great" straight out the gate let's not forget about Snoop and Biggie. Both of their debut albums were huge and highly commercially successful. And if you're talking about just straight radio "hotness" let's not forget about Mase. Right now I could equate Drake to what Mase's career started off being. He was largely popular and commercially viable his first album. Had the potential to make a huge career for himself but Mase couldn't do it. Now Drake has the ability to keep it rolling so let's see if he can.

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by cmoneymontana

Originally Posted by SonOfTony


    

That is fine, but to each is own.

I can not relate to ANYTHING he is saying. 

OBCL2 >>>SFG, and yes I am SERIOUS.

I don't even see how that would be a debate. They are two different albums, but still hip hop, and if you take straight up beats and rhymes, and
an open mind, it should be OBCL2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SFG every time. 

As far as people using how an album relates to their personal lives as judgment of how good an album is, is it really that important?  I mean, I don't
relate to the main themes of 'Ready To Die' or '2001', both considered classics, but they're still 2 of my favorite albums.
  

 

[cmoneymontana]

Originally Posted by KayCurrency

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Originally Posted by red mpls

I mean, do you guys understand all of the MCs Drake would have to "surpass" that don't even generally get mentioned on people's Top 10 lists?  Artists like Redman, Common, Black Thought, LL Cool J, Q-Tip, Ghostface, Andre 3000, DMX, Snoop, Big L, Jadakiss, Eightball, Fabolous, Big Pun, Missy Elliott, Ludacris, Cam'Ron, Bun B, Guru, Raekwon, AZ, Kurupt, Cee-Lo, Beanie Sigel, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, DJ Quik, GZA, Juvenile, Lil' Fame, Busta Rhymes, Prodigy, etc.

Not to mention he'll have to beat out his contemporaries, including Kanye West, Lil' Wayne, Rick Ross, The Game, TI, Pusha-T, and Jeezy, all of whom I would take over Drake right now and three of whom will almost certainly end up "ranked" higher than Drake when all is said and done.

Finally, he would have to knock someone who's a "regular" in Top 10 lists out of their position.  MCs like BIG, Tupac, Nas, Jay, Rakim, KRS-One, Kane, G Rap, Slick Rick, Eminem, Ice Cube, Chuck D, Scarface, etc.

IT'S NOT HAPPENING.  PERIOD.

People are certainly entitled to their opinions and all but Drake will NEVER be generally considered a Top 10 DOA rapper.  Ever.

I'm about to set a bombshell with this, and this is coming from someone with a well versed music library...
He's better than A LOT of those dudes you mentioned already. He just hasn't been in the game for nearly as long and doesn't have the album count and accolades that these people have..

This.


Name another Rapper/Artist who's had THIS much buzz and was even CONSIDERED by ANYONE top 10-20 off their FIRST LP......Besides maybe Em'



He has ONLY ONE bar coded album under his belt...and we're debating about this...

Nas, Biggie, Raekwon, Jadakiss, Scarface.....You really can not be serious with this statement.

I am convinced that you guys must have not been allowed to listen to rap back then, to say these
outrageous things.



  

 

[shoeking2101]

Originally Posted by alex2182

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Originally Posted by alex2182



  

 You guys have got to be kidding me. Im neither a Drake or Jay fan but to say Jay's verses on Welcome to The Jungle, Who Gon Stop Me, Murder to Excellence or Why I Love You is not better than Drake's verse on Good Girls Go Bad, Headlines, Trust Issues, Tony Montana, Im on One

. And to argue if you are going to mention So Far Gone as a classic, you guys gotta look at it musically cuz rap wise it is good but most definitely not a "classic".

Honestly, I listen to those verses from Jay with a 

 face on. Like, its cool, is good, its just not entertaining, and I personally don't find them really enjoyable. I haven't played basically any Jay verse from that album since its release.
And I would agree with that last point, and that's another thing Drake has in his favor. His production match what he's trying to do with his lyrics and concepts to a T.

    Dude is rapping and being lyrical after a few listens the lyrics sink in. With Drake everything he says you get off bat and it's not even deep. I listen to Drake's verses with a

 face cuz dude always raps about the same things, yea Headlines was different but "Make me catch a body like that" just aint him. Idk how saying dude is going to be Top 10 when his songs with the most buzz are him singing. After awhile dude is gonna realize that is his niche.    

He didn't say that he was catching a body though...
and Does he rap about the same thing? Yes, but name another rapper that doesn't? Its about doing it well, and reinventing what your talking about while talking about the same things, and he does that. Does that damn well I might add.

Marvin's Room is nothing like Headlines, which is nothing like Dreams money can buy though..

 

[iammd]

Also, I think alot of people are not taking to account how much better his SONGS are than alot of these rappers that are listed. Music is much more than 16s.

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Originally Posted by red mpls

I mean, do you guys understand all of the MCs Drake would have to "surpass" that don't even generally get mentioned on people's Top 10 lists?  Artists like Redman, Common, Black Thought, LL Cool J, Q-Tip, Ghostface, Andre 3000, DMX, Snoop, Big L, Jadakiss, Eightball, Fabolous, Big Pun, Missy Elliott, Ludacris, Cam'Ron, Bun B, Guru, Raekwon, AZ, Kurupt, Cee-Lo, Beanie Sigel, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, DJ Quik, GZA, Juvenile, Lil' Fame, Busta Rhymes, Prodigy, etc.

Not to mention he'll have to beat out his contemporaries, including Kanye West, Lil' Wayne, Rick Ross, The Game, TI, Pusha-T, and Jeezy, all of whom I would take over Drake right now and three of whom will almost certainly end up "ranked" higher than Drake when all is said and done.

Finally, he would have to knock someone who's a "regular" in Top 10 lists out of their position.  MCs like BIG, Tupac, Nas, Jay, Rakim, KRS-One, Kane, G Rap, Slick Rick, Eminem, Ice Cube, Chuck D, Scarface, etc.

IT'S NOT HAPPENING.  PERIOD.

People are certainly entitled to their opinions and all but Drake will NEVER be generally considered a Top 10 DOA rapper.  Ever.

I'm about to set a bombshell with this, and this is coming from someone with a well versed music library...
He's better than A LOT of those dudes you mentioned already. He just hasn't been in the game for nearly as long and doesn't have the album count and accolades that these people have..

You (and some others) may like him more but he is not widely considered "better" or "greater" than any of the artists I listed at this point.  Now he may (and probably will) pass up many of them.  But there are over 50 names up there.  At the end of the day, he will NOT be generally considered "greater" than 41 of them... or anywhere close.

Originally Posted by IamMD

Originally Posted by Jking0821

Originally Posted by IamMD


Fixed

But this is completely true

He is top "rapper" out now to me....top 5 artist out right now.....but he doesn't have what it takes to surpass any of the all time greats.....

LOL, how is that completely true?!  Drake is better than MOST people that dude listed.

  

Who is he better than?  And using what criteria?

You're adding so much to this discussion by the way...

 

[shoeking2101]

Most of those guys you listed do not combine stellar raps with harmonies, and really good melodies though..

 

[kaycurrency]

Originally Posted by cmoneymontana

Originally Posted by KayCurrency

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

I'm about to set a bombshell with this, and this is coming from someone with a well versed music library...
He's better than A LOT of those dudes you mentioned already. He just hasn't been in the game for nearly as long and doesn't have the album count and accolades that these people have..

This.


Name another Rapper/Artist who's had THIS much buzz and was even CONSIDERED by ANYONE top 10-20 off their FIRST LP......Besides maybe Em'



He has ONLY ONE bar coded album under his belt...and we're debating about this...

Nas, Biggie, Raekwon, Jadakiss, Scarface.....You really can not be serious with this statement.

I am convinced that you guys must have not been allowed to listen to rap back then, to say these
outrageous things.



  

So, When you first heard their first LP's, You thought to yourself  "damn...these N's are top 10 in my book".....?

BTW I own every BIG, Kwon, Kiss and NAS album...Hard Copies....Not that Itune crap...

 

[jking0821]

Originally Posted by IamMD

Also, I think alot of people are not taking to account how much better his SONGS are than alot of these rappers that are listed. Music is much more than 16s.

This is where i think lines are blurred and why music is music.

So if we are comparing SONGS....and not actual rapping (or the hip hop and it's five elements) then what about Zeppelin, The Beatles, The Stones etc...they make great SONGS....

You have to try to put some boundries on this because i think Frank Ocean and The Weeknd are both better then Drake right now....but they aren't really hip hop, more R&B

 

[alex2182]

@ 2:10 &

 @ put my napkin in my pocket cuz Im mobbin like that

And yea every rapper raps about the same thing but he's not reinventing it he is just making it more depressing. I swear Marvin's Room sounds like thetheme song to a simp's suicide.
So if So Far Gone is a classic so is Friday Night Lights, Krit Wuz Here, Return of 4Eva, How Fly

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by KayCurrency

Originally Posted by cmoneymontana

Originally Posted by KayCurrency

This.


Name another Rapper/Artist who's had THIS much buzz and was even CONSIDERED by ANYONE top 10-20 off their FIRST LP......Besides maybe Em'



He has ONLY ONE bar coded album under his belt...and we're debating about this...

Nas, Biggie, Raekwon, Jadakiss, Scarface.....You really can not be serious with this statement.

I am convinced that you guys must have not been allowed to listen to rap back then, to say these
outrageous things.



  

So, When you first heard their first LP's, You thought to yourself  "damn...these N's are top 10 in my book".....?

BTW I own every BIG, Kwon, Kiss and NAS album...Hard Copies....Not that Itune crap...

When Doggystyle, Illmatic, and Ready To Die dropped Snoop, Nas, and BIG were all widely considered Top 10-20 DOA.  Like, if they had each died the next day they still would have been considered one of the all-time greats.

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by IamMD

Originally Posted by Peep Game

Originally Posted by IamMD

Are you insinuating that SFG is not a classic?  

Musically, I would say it could be near classic. Lyrically, with the mini-Wayne flow that he uses, not even close.
  

well if you're going to compare him to Wayne...Drake has WAY more substance than Wayne...how was it not lyrically a classic?

  

He does have way more substance than Wayne, but how hard is that really? By actually staying on topic throughout verses makes Drake much better than
Wayne anyway. But why isn't it a classic lyrically, the content is there, but you can have the greatest content, but if your flow/delivery lacks, than the content
is negated. Drake comes off as monotone and forced when he raps, and even when he sings. He's good/great for hooks and cameos, but not really for the
3 verse/3 hook songs. 

  

 

[kaycurrency]

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by KayCurrency

Originally Posted by cmoneymontana


Nas, Biggie, Raekwon, Jadakiss, Scarface.....You really can not be serious with this statement.

I am convinced that you guys must have not been allowed to listen to rap back then, to say these
outrageous things.



  

So, When you first heard their first LP's, You thought to yourself  "damn...these N's are top 10 in my book".....?

BTW I own every BIG, Kwon, Kiss and NAS album...Hard Copies....Not that Itune crap...

When Doggystyle, Illmatic, and Ready To Die dropped Snoop, Nas, and BIG were all widely considered Top 10-20 DOA.  Like, if they had each died the next day they still would have been considered one of the all-time greats.

I'll Give you Illmatic....

I and I love Doggystyle and Ready to die....but idk

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by KayCurrency

Originally Posted by cmoneymontana

KayCurrency wrote: 

  

So, When you first heard their first LP's, You thought to yourself  "damn...these N's are top 10 in my book".....?

BTW I own every BIG, Kwon, Kiss and NAS album...Hard Copies....Not that Itune crap...



Jadakiss, no. The rest, it's not a stretch at all for anybody to have thought that based on their debuts.

 

[cmoneymontana]

Originally Posted by KayCurrency

Originally Posted by cmoneymontana

Originally Posted by KayCurrency

This.


Name another Rapper/Artist who's had THIS much buzz and was even CONSIDERED by ANYONE top 10-20 off their FIRST LP......Besides maybe Em'



He has ONLY ONE bar coded album under his belt...and we're debating about this...

Nas, Biggie, Raekwon, Jadakiss, Scarface.....You really can not be serious with this statement.

I am convinced that you guys must have not been allowed to listen to rap back then, to say these
outrageous things.



  

So, When you first heard their first LP's, You thought to yourself  "damn...these N's are top 10 in my book".....?

BTW I own every BIG, Kwon, Kiss and NAS album...Hard Copies....Not that Itune crap...

Yes, and so did the other millions of people that got thier first albums, not including Jada. I think his first album went gold.

I think the Source magazine had given these albums 5 mics when it mattered as well.

In no way, shape, or form is SFG better then OB4CL, Illmatic, Ready to Die. etc?


  

 

[shoeking2101]

Originally Posted by alex2182

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Originally Posted by alex2182



    Dude is rapping and being lyrical after a few listens the lyrics sink in. With Drake everything he says you get off bat and it's not even deep. I listen to Drake's verses with a

 face cuz dude always raps about the same things, yea Headlines was different but "Make me catch a body like that" just aint him. Idk how saying dude is going to be Top 10 when his songs with the most buzz are him singing. After awhile dude is gonna realize that is his niche.    

He didn't say that he was catching a body though...
and Does he rap about the same thing? Yes, but name another rapper that doesn't? Its about doing it well, and reinventing what your talking about while talking about the same things, and he does that. Does that damn well I might add.

Marvin's Room is nothing like Headlines, which is nothing like Dreams money can buy though..

Are you even listening??



@2:10 "Put my napkin in my pocket cuz I'm mobbin like that"


  

My interpretation of that lyric was more of he's "the man" now, and his position in rap is similar to a top Mobster, not actually killing someone. I may be wrong, but that's what I got from that line.

 

[kaycurrency]

Nas Sums it up pretty well...

 

[Ace Ready]

Look Drake has everything going for him. Alongside being a great rapper, he's young, got commercial appeal, and is aligned with a great label in YM that will help him along the way. Nothing can really stop him right now, none of these so called "hip hop purists" are gonna hold Drake back from dropping a classic. The ball is in his hands right now, we'll see what he does with it...

 

[deuce king]

Originally Posted by KayCurrency

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Kanyes Verse on "Made in America"> any Hov verse on WTT

You can't be serious champ.........you just can't be.

But to go as far as to say "Hip Hop doesnt need this"....Who the hell are they to make such a statement?....

Someone who obviously loves and appreciates the history of rap as you obviously don't with even having the audacity to even make this thread and pose this question to the public.


But LL made "I need love"....One of the most recognizable Songs in Hip Hop History....Did we need that?



Actually yeah, that song was one of the first to cater to woman on a large scale from a male rappers point of view and LL was one of the first rappers to do it, maybe Slick Rick as well depending on your viewpoint.  That song was hot on the radio because females loved it.  I would say that "I need love" made it more acceptable or easier for songs like Big Poppa and others to catch on the way it did later on in the hip hop years.  Also, "I need love" was not about a dude simping or hating on another dude which is exactly what "Marvin's Room" is about.

 

[gentry187]

My top 10 as far as artist that are the whole package (lyrics, sales, consistency, and charisma)

NaS
Jay Z
BIG
2pac
Eminem
Snoop Dogg
Kanye
Lil Wayne
DMX
OutKast (and if u want to get technical then make it Andre 3000)




As far as right now I see Drake in the same spot 50 was in when he came out. If you would of asked most people back in 04 they probably would of put 50 in their top 10, top 5 maybe. Drake is slowly losing steam and who knows how long can he keep it up.

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by Enchanted1


Look Drake has everything going for him. Alongside being a great rapper He's young, got commercial appeal, and is aligned with a great label in YM that will help him along the way. Nothing can really stop him right now, none of these so called "hip hop purists" are gonna hold Drake back from dropping a classic. The ball is in his hands right now, we'll see what he does with it...

 

[iammd]

Originally Posted by gentry187

My top 10 as far as artist that are the whole package (lyrics, sales, consistency, and charisma)

NaS
Jay Z
BIG
2pac
Eminem
Snoop Dogg
Kanye
Lil Wayne
DMX
OutKast (and if u want to get technical then make it Andre 3000)




As far as right now I see Drake in the same spot 50 was in when he came out. If you would of asked most people back in 04 they probably would of put 50 in their top 10, top 5 maybe. Drake is slowly losing steam and who knows how long can he keep it up.

what does sales have to do with the music?

  ANd how do you figure Drake is losing steam? You can't just make outlandish statements with no proof.

 

[kaycurrency]

Originally Posted by gentry187

My top 10 as far as artist that are the whole package (lyrics, sales, consistency, and charisma)

NaS
Jay Z
BIG
2pac
Eminem
Snoop Dogg
Kanye
Lil Wayne
DMX
OutKast (and if u want to get technical then make it Andre 3000)




As far as right now I see Drake in the same spot 50 was in when he came out. If you would of asked most people back in 04 they probably would of put 50 in their top 10, top 5 maybe. Drake is slowly losing steam and who knows how long can he keep it up.

...OK




Most of 50's buzz was off of a beef with one of, if not, the Hottest rapper out at the time (Ja Rule)....NOT his music...

"in da club" was a banger though...