2013-2014 NBA Season Thread - Congrats to the Spurs, DBD is still a buster

[cashbanks]

I have him ahead of Bron because he was nasty. Wasn't supremely athletic, but the man was a walking triple double. His numbers are very similar to LeBron's, arguably better.

But did he win tho?

You said yourself their numbers are similar edge goes to the guy that gets it done IMO.

But I also have Bron passing Larry when he gets #3.

 

[HEATHEN]

Just my opinion, but he's already better than Larry and Oscar to me and if he wins his 3rd in a few weeks now we're seriously talking about a top 5 of all time player here. The things he will have accomplished before his 30th bday :x

If he wins his 3rd before 30, I'd have to slot him in ahead of Oscar. I'll concede that Oscar didn't play in a terribly fearsome era. Both Wilt and Bob Pettit were putting up obscene numbers along with Oscar. There was a stark gap between the best of the era, and the rest of those in the league.


But man Oscar was something special IMO. Better than Wilt, Pettit and Bill Russell.

 

[HEATHEN]

But did he win tho?

You said yourself their numbers are similar edge goes to the guy that gets it done IMO.

But I also have Bron passing Larry when he gets #3.

Dude Bron has 2 of the best players of his era playing alongside him.


Oscar had no such help as a Royal.

 

[cashbanks]

Hyper you will be repped once I re-up the chuckle that Duncan comment gave me is well worth it

 

[shoeking2101]

If he wins his 3rd before 30, I'd have to slot him in ahead of Oscar. I'll concede that Oscar didn't play in a terribly fearsome era. Both Wilt and Bob Pettit were putting up obscene numbers along with Oscar. There was a stark gap between the best of the era, and the rest of those in the league.


But man Oscar was something special IMO. Better than Wilt, Pettit and Bill Russell.

One thing I don't do personally, is knock players because of their eras.

Do i think those guys are as good as say Lebron? Of course not.

However, they were the elite of their time. Can't penalize them for playing during their time periods. If they were elite for their time, i'm willing to bet they probably would be elite today too. Give those guys today's hoop centralized upbringing and all the things that comes with being a top prospect as a prep in todays grassroots era, and they would be almost as good today. Of course it's assumption, but just think, those guys were great relative to their time period. Put them in today's time with everything that comes with being a ball player today, and they'll be elite.

 

[shoeking2101]

Reading this Lebron decision thread man...this is epic

 

[lamekilla]

Let's be real about this. If the Heat win it all this year, there is no way LeBron is not top 5 all time... With about another 6 or 7 years of greatness to come. Dude is on his way. Still don't think he overtakes MJ though.

Agree. You can't doubt that we're watching history but I don't think lebron will get over 4 rings when it's all said and done.

 

[nelson999]

 

You think he's going to be playing great at 36 years old?

Why wouldn't he?

I'm sure he will still be effective but he isn't going to be dominating anymore.

Dirk is still successful because of his unguardable jumpshot, and Duncan is Mr. Fundamentals

 

[HEATHEN]

One thing I don't do personally, is knock players because of their eras.

Do i think those guys are as good as say Lebron? Of course not.

However, they were the elite of their time. Can't penalize them for playing during their time periods. If they were elite for their time, i'm willing to bet they probably would be elite today too. Give those guys today's hoop centralized upbringing and all the things that comes with being a top prospect as a prep in todays grassroots era, and they would be almost as good today. Of course it's assumption, but just think, those guys were great relative to their time period. Put them in today's time with everything that comes with being a ball player today, and they'll be elite.

k, you're entitled to your opinion.


but my methodology stands. difficulty of era is taken into account in my methodology. and no, just putting them in today's era doesn't necessarily make them anymore athletic. some guys were just not especially athletic. fundamentally sound yes, very good basketball players yes, but I honestly have doubts if they'd be able to put up the same numbers against todays athletes.


but again you're entitled to your opinion, just don't count on changing mine anytime soon. I love the Big O, have the utmost respect for Pettit, Wilt and Bill Russell, but I slight them somewhat for the era they played in.

I honestly don't think Bill Russell, Wilt or Pettit would've been elite by today's standards. Maybe not even the Big O, I just think with Oscar's all-around game and that fadeaway jumper Mike inherited from him, his game might've translated very well.

Wilt was obviously a timeless athlete, but I have my doubts that he'd have that athletic edge over the athletic bigs of today.

 

[tm10]

funny how bosh becomes one of the best when it comes to debate over bron lol but gets clowned when we discuss him as an entity. 

p.s. to me hes more important than wade to the heat since the 3rd year they are together. 

 

[shoelyesses]

Dude Bron has 2 of the best players of his era playing alongside him.


Oscar had no such help as a Royal.

but the level of competition was nowhere near it is now especially at his position. add to that only what 8-10 teams and the only other good/great player at his position was jerry west. So really cant compare the two

 

[HEATHEN]

funny how bosh becomes one of the best when it comes to debate over bron lol but gets clowned when we discuss him as an entity. 

because at days end, jokes is jokes. we leave all that extra stuff at the door when we get into an objective debate about the rushmore of basketball.

 

[certifiedflyboi23]

I always wonder how Len Bias and Reggie Lewis' career would have panned out had they not died.


RIP.

Hank Gather too

 

[HEATHEN]

but the level of competition was nowhere near it is now especially at his position. add to that only what 8-10 teams and the only other good/great player at his position was jerry west. So really cant compare the two

I said that already.


but still, Bron is still playing with two of the best* at their respective positions.


*Bosh is the best velociraptor in the league.

 

[you big dummy]

View media item 1000499

 

[shoelyesses]

k, you're entitled to your opinion.


but my methodology stands. difficulty of era is taken into account in my methodology. and no, just putting them in today's era doesn't necessarily make them anymore athletic. some guys were just not especially athletic. fundamentally sound yes, very good basketball players yes, but I honestly have doubts if they'd be able to put up the same numbers against todays athletes.


but again you're entitled to your opinion, just don't count on changing mine anytime soon. I love the Big O, have the utmost respect for Pettit, Wilt and Bill Russell, but I slight them somewhat for the era they played in.

I honestly don't think Bill Russell, Wilt or Pettit would've been elite by today's standards. Maybe not even the Big O, I just think with Oscar's all-around game and that fadeaway jumper Mike inherited from him, his game might've translated very well.

Wilt was obviously a timeless athlete, but I have my doubts that he'd have that athletic edge over the athletic bigs of today.

id agree in most part except with wilt... I mean with todays centers. He still is bigger/stronger/quicker/nimble then most of the centers of todays. Now the centers of late 80's 90's...... But i doubt the likes of dudes like hibbert, mcgee etc... kaman lol I doubt they would be shutting wilt down.

 

[mertonhanks]

You really don't think Wilt would be elite in today's game???? Dog, he's the most dominant player of all it time along with Shaq, his game definitely transcends eras no matter when he played.

 

[HEATHEN]

id agree in most part except with wilt... I mean with todays centers. He still is bigger/stronger/quicker/nimble then most of the centers of todays. Now the centers of late 80's 90's...... But i doubt the likes of dudes like hibbert, mcgee etc... kaman lol I doubt they would be shutting wilt down.

when I think of today's bigs I think more like Dwight, Noah, Drummond, Duncan, Jordan etc.


Not the losers you mentioned.

 

[HEATHEN]

You really don't think Wilt would be elite in today's game???? Dog, he's the most dominant player of all it time along with Shaq, his game definitely transcends eras no matter when he played.

Yes I really don't think so.


Anything else?


BTW I think Shaq and Hakeem would've made him look downright silly.

 

[shoeking2101]

k, you're entitled to your opinion.


but my methodology stands. difficulty of era is taken into account in my methodology. and no, just putting them in today's era doesn't necessarily make them anymore athletic. some guys were just not especially athletic. fundamentally sound yes, very good basketball players yes, but I honestly have doubts if they'd be able to put up the same numbers against todays athletes.


but again you're entitled to your opinion, just don't count on changing mine anytime soon. I love the Big O, have the utmost respect for Pettit, Wilt and Bill Russell, but I slight them somewhat for the era they played in.

I honestly don't think Bill Russell, Wilt or Pettit would've been elite by today's standards. Maybe not even the Big O, I just think with Oscar's all-around game and that fadeaway jumper Mike inherited from him, his game might've translated very well.

Wilt was obviously a timeless athlete, but I have my doubts that he'd have that athletic edge over the athletic bigs of today.

Minus wilt, I agree. If you just take them out of the 60's and 70's and put them in today's game then no, they would not be able to compete and wouldn't be able to put up those numbers.

But my point was that they were elite for their time. They were ahead of their time. To compare them to today's player "naked" is a bit unfair, for they flat out did not have the benefits of growing up in today's Hoops circuit and did not have the benefit of all the technological advances that come with growing up in the 21st century.

But, at the same time it gets a bit tricky because at what point do you not give yesterday's player the benefit of the doubt for playing in the past and realize that "well that's supposed to happen, today's player is supposed to be leaps and bounds better than yesterday's players. It's called Evolution."

 

[iheartboost]

Congrats Heat!

 

[shoelyesses]

Minus wilt, I agree. If you just take them out of the 60's and 70's and put them in today's game then no, they would not be able to compete and wouldn't be able to put up those numbers.

But my point was that they were elite for their time. They were ahead of their time. To compare them to today's player "naked" is a bit unfair, for they flat out did not have the benefits of growing up in today's Hoops circuit and did not have the benefit of all the technological advances that come with growing up in the 21st century.

But, at the same time it gets a bit tricky because at what point do you not give yesterday's player the benefit of the doubt for playing in the past and realize that "well that's supposed to happen, today's player is supposed to be leaps and bounds better than yesterday's players. It's called Evolution."

see that whole they didnt benefit from technology etc... of today is a often misnomer. Key example jesse owens. His records stood the test of time for decades before someone finally beat them. Cant say level of competition cause that has nothing to do with how fast he ran, how far he jumped etc. 

Hell tracks are far better now then in that era, training is more elite (not to mention considered that era and he being black, probably didnt even get the best of in that era) They have crafted and tweaked running/jumping techniques. Hell even footwear etc...is faaar better. Yet still ppl werent able to out perform him. 

 

[mertonhanks]

You really don't think Wilt would be elite in today's game???? Dog, he's the most dominant player of all it time along with Shaq, his game definitely transcends eras no matter when he played.

Yes I really don't think so.


Anything else?


BTW I think Shaq and Hakeem would've made him look downright silly.

First off, shaq and Hakeem ain't playing today, their primes were years ago on top of that. Wilt was 7'1, ridiculously athletic, long arms. Besides the points and rebounds, he was a great defender, and damn underrated passer, once leading the league in assists :x . You bring up Dwight. Wilt is taller, stronger, and more athletic. Dwight is considered the best center in today's game, but Wilt wouldn't even be elite? Lol at deandre jordan

 

[shoeking2101]

see that whole they didnt benefit from technology etc... of today is a often misnomer. Key example jesse owens. His records stood the test of time for decades before someone finally beat them. Cant say level of competition cause that has nothing to do with how fast he ran, how far he jumped etc. 

Hell tracks are far better now then in that era, training is more elite (not to mention considered that era and he being black, probably didnt even get the best of in that era) They have crafted and tweaked running/jumping techniques. Hell even footwear etc...is faaar better. Yet still ppl werent able to out perform him. 

Man come on, you cannot compare 2 different sports like that you're better than this. Track and Basketball aren't the same at all. (minus the running and jumping of course)



vs




There is a clear difference in athleticism, reaction time, overall skill, size, length, speed, etc. it's just flat out not fair to old those players in that 1963 vid to the 2011 vid. The conditions that the players came of age in are worlds of different. That's why it's really hard to compare across such a wide span. So many variables come into play.

 

[HEATHEN]

First off, shaq and Hakeem ain't playing today, their primes were years ago on top of that. Wilt was 7'1, ridiculously athletic, long arms. Besides the points and rebounds, he was a great defender, and damn underrated passer, once leading the league in assists :x . You bring up Dwight. Wilt is taller, stronger, and more athletic. Dwight is considered the best center in today's game, but Wilt wouldn't even be elite? Lol at deandre jordan

dude YOU brought up Shaq so I brought up Hakeem.


Bit slow tonight aren't you?


And saying Wilt is stronger, more athletic than Dwight, or anyone else for that matter based on "feats" is a bit silly. It's all conjecture.

And DeAndre is a fine center, don't think opposing big men were laughing much this season.