ADOS

[Maximus Meridius]

You don't see the flaw in this plan.

You feel the country owes descendants of slavery reparations, a lump sum, and you want them to figure decide how much they should pay.

I wish Great Lakes would have let me decide how much I should have paid back for my student loans.

Now you playing dumb.

NTer's ain't gonna figure out the exact dollar amount. There is no exact way to know the amount that's owed. Ain't like we loaned white americans 500k.

We know for a fact that this economy was built on the free labor of slaves. Whether it's something negotiated and agreed on people can cross that bridge down the road.

 

[All Ready]

I didn't call you a name I said you sound stupid that's MY opinion of what you've said in here.

I'm sure many would agree with me.

yeah sure

keep playing by all the rules of the people who captured you

I’m sure it’ll work out fine for you

 

[cashbanks]

yeah sure

keep playing by all the rules of the people who captured you

I’m sure it’ll work out fine for you

nobody captured me.

yea whatever rambo i'm sure you're living off the grid with no connection to the white man and "his rules"

dudes get real worked when you question the faux pro black ******** they regurgitate from some other *****

 

[largofool]

Not to mention lump sum payment comes with other undesirable effects.

Elaborate

 

[Maximus Meridius]

nobody captured me.

yea whatever rambo i'm sure you're living off the grid with no connection to the white man and "his rules"

dudes get real worked when you question the faux pro black bull**** they regurgitate from some other *****

That doesn't mean you were literally captured.


The race of people that captured your people.

 

[All Ready]

yet another tired narrative

nowhere near worked up

you acting like I haven’t heard everything in this thread for decades

yall really feel like yall are dripping science which is the sad part

claiming I said I’m out the system

pedaling thevsame nonsense the elders passed to their children

 

[RustyShackleford]

Now you playing dumb.

NTer's ain't gonna figure out the exact dollar amount. There is no exact way to know the amount that's owed. Ain't like loaned white Americans 500k

We know for a fact that this economy was built on the free labor of slaves. Whether it's something negotiated and agreed on people can cross that bridge down the road.

I am not playing dumb. There are tons of NTers that could figure out a number. Multiplication is not hard, deciding on the correct multipliers is the real issue

What matters in the multipliers. Do we use the estimated total number of people enslaved, or the total number at the end of slavery, how black people not born in slavery be countes. Are former slaves compensated for just lost wages or should their be an extra payout for pain and suffering. Say we use something like "40 acres and a mule" to determine a payout, then do you inflate the number by the average increase in the value of land or by a more traditional inflation number like the CPI.

All these numbers matter and when you are think about a payout as big as this the then we are talking differences that could amount to tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars based on the multiplers.

My point to you was that maybe you should not trust the person making the payment to figure out how much they owe. Because the can manipulate the numbers on the margin to depress the payout amount.

You claim that the conversation always breaks down because some dudes can't handle a dissenting political opinion. I think the real problem is that some dudes like simple stories, and get incensed when others tell them it is not that simple.

So again, in my opinion it is not a good idea to allow the debtor to decide the scale of his debt. You constantly comment on how much pain and suffering this country has caused black Americans, yet you are willing to entrust them with figure out the correct restitution?

Sorry, but that plan seems flawed and lazy.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

I am not playing dumb. There are tons of NTers that could figure out a number. Multiplication is not hard, deciding on the correct multipliers is the real issue

What matters in the multipliers. Do we use the estimated total number of people enslaved, or the total number at the end of slavery, how black people not born in slavery be countes. Are former slaves compensated for just lost wages or should their be an extra payout for pain and suffering. Say we use something like "40 acres and a mule" to determine a payout, then do you inflate the number by the average increase in the value of land or by a more traditional inflation number like the CPI.

All these numbers matter and when you are think about a payout as big as this the then we are talking differences that could amount to tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars based on the multiplers.

My point to you was that maybe you should not trust the person making the payment to figure out how much they owe. Because the can manipulate the numbers on the margin to depress the payout amount.

You claim that the conversation always breaks down because some dudes can't handle a dissenting political opinion. I think the real problem is that some dudes like simple stories, and get incensed when others tell them it is not that simple.

So again, in my opinion it is not a good idea to allow the debtor to decide the scale of his debt. You constantly comment on how much pain and suffering this country has caused black Americans, yet you are willing to entrust them with figure out the correct restitution?

Sorry, but that plan seems flawed and lazy.

Like I said, it can something negotiated. Never said I was trusting this government. And it doesn't have to be a large sum of money. That's what people say that want to shoot it down quick. It can be a certain amount paid to people yearly for the rest of their lives.

You don't need to say sorry, we already know where you stand on this.

 

[largofool]

It’s a lot of black immigrants in this post heated cause #ados have the audacity to demand tangibles from Democrats in exchange for their votes.

It’s almost like they don’t understand that politicians compete directly for the votes of constituents, otherwise known as campaigning.

Silly of team #ados to participate is this process

 

[cashbanks]

That doesn't mean you were literally captured.


The race of people that captured your people.

NOOOO really?

 

[cashbanks]

It’s a lot of black immigrants in this post heated cause #ados have the audacity to demand tangibles from Democrats in exchange for their votes.

It’s almost like they don’t understand that politicians compete directly for the votes of constituents, otherwise known as campaigning.

Silly of team #ados to participate is this process

Tangibles such as?

 

[largofool]

Black Agenda


As a specific group with a specific justice claim, the #ADOS movement demands a specific agenda with policy prescriptions that address the losses stemming from the institution of slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, convict leasing, mass incarceration and immigration.



We demand a New Deal for Black America which includes, but is not limited to:

• We need set asides for American descendants of slavery, not “minorities”, a throw-away category which includes all groups except white men. That categorization has allowed Democrats to use programs like affirmative actions as “giveaways” to all groups in exchange for votes. The bribery must end. That begins with a new designation on the Census with ADOS and another for Black immigrants. Black immigrants should be barred from accessing affirmative action and other set asides intended for ADOS, as should Asians, Latinos, white women, and other “minority” groups. In addition, ADOS hiring and employment data must be demanded for all businesses receiving tax credits, incentives, and governmental support. As well as all governmental agencies national, state and local. It is our belief that this will show that there are minimal if any ADOS professionals in fields including but not limited to engineering, medical, legal and tech.

• Once affirmative action is streamlined as a government program only and specifically for ADOS, the program should be fully reinstituted.

• The Supreme Court decided wrongly when it gutted the Voting Rights Act. As the Atlanta Journal Constitution article “It’s Time to Solve the Mystery of the 100,000 Mystery Votes” indicates, the protections outlined in the Voting Rights Act are essential to protecting the rights of ADOS in America. Reinstituting the protections of The Voting Rights Act is a key part of our agenda.

• Black businesses only received 1.7% of the $23.09 billion in total SBA loans under President Obama’s SBA (Small Business Administration), after having previously received 8.2% under President George W. Bush. Succeeding as an entrepreneur requires capital, so our agenda demands that 15% of SBA loans be distributed to ADOS businesses.

• We seek a multi-billion dollar infrastructure plan targeted to ADOS communities, including, but not limited to, the Black Belt, Flint, Michigan. A Reuters examination published in 2016 found 3,000 cities with poisoning rates higher than Flint.

• Residents of majority ADOS areas that have been poisoned under the federal, local and state government’s watch, such as not only Flint, Michigan, but Denmark, South Carolina, and others, must be financially compensated for the benign neglect of the Environmental Protection Agency and the government in general. The Justice Department must also institute protections which exact heavy fines and federal criminal prosecution for future offenders.

• Mass incarceration has wreaked havoc on Black American families. By some accounts there are literally more black males imprisoned than all women are incarcerated on the planet. To give context there are 20 million black males, and they largely descend from slavery. While there are 4 billion women globally, both groups producing the same number of incarcerated. The reinvention of slavery through use of the 13th Amendment is chronicled by Douglas Blackmon in his PBS documentary “Slavery by Another Name”, it is our position this must be corrected. We demand a immediate assessment of the numbers of the #ADOS prison populations at the state & federal level. We also demand that there be review if punishment (bail amounts, sentence lengths, amount of time served before parole) is being levied at unfairly high levels on #ADOS based on gender and race for similar crimes to other groups. We demand that there be real prison reform in the form of investment into counseling, job training, and rehabilitation for our incarcerated.

• Former President Ronald Reagan committed to “strengthen the capacity of historically Black colleges and universities to provide quality education” in Executive Order 12320. President Obama undermined that commitment with changes to the PLUS Loan requirements. We call for legislation to triple the current federal allotment to HBCUs. Schools like Georgetown, built by slaves, have an endowment of over a billion dollars. This is a transfer of wealth from ADOS to whites. Our agenda demands that the federal government fully endow our remaining HBCUs in a dollar amount that meets the budgetary needs of each institution. In addition, ADOS students who attend HBCUs should receive a discount in the form of a 75 percent tax credit, given that our inability to pay the rising cost of education is directly tied to the racial wealth gap coming from slavery. ADOS who choose schools outside of the HBCU network should receive a 50 percent government funded credit.

• Findings published in USA Today concluded that top universities graduate ADOS in tech, but those graduates can’t find jobs in Silicon Valley. Only 2% of technology workers at seven Silicon Valley companies are Black, according to the report,and many of those are Black immigrants, not ADOS. And according to a study by Rutgers Professor Hal Salzman, American colleges graduate more tech workers than tech companies need, hence the H1-B program reduces opportunities for ADOS searching for careers in technology. The government must strictly limit the number of H1-B Visa workers tech companies that flow in each year.

• Audit the banks to see if there are patterns of racial discrimination in lending, and require these banks to extend loans to ADOS businesses. These banks received bailout from taxpayers and owe a debt to all taxpayers, regardless of race. In addition, banks such as Wells Fargo used predatory schemes historically, not just during the Great Recession, to eviscerate Black Wealth. Lending to Black businesses and institutions would be a beginning for banks to redress the harm they’ve caused to the ADOS community.

• Mandate that the government’s advertising budget include Black media. There is no ADOS community without our own media. Incentivize through legislative action that all major companies spend 10% of their advertising budget with ADOS media in exchange for tax credits. In addition, mandate that 10% of government advertising for governmental agencies, armed forces and other ancillary programs go to majority ADOS owned media companies.

• ADOS college debt should be forgiven in the same way losses were forgiven for the banks on Wall Street. Those executives oversaw the evaporation of billions in global wealth. ADOS graduates bought into the idea that the key to success in life was an education, and there was a place for us in America, only to find after graduation that we were locked out. We can’t afford to bear the burden of a lie.

• A health care credit to pay for medical coverage for all ADOS. This would cover surgery, pharmaceutical, and counseling needs. As an example we would like to see a Lineage Therapy, whereby #ADOS leadership, in co-operation with licensed therapists and psychiatrists, develop a therapy curriculum to help members of the ADOS understand and manage their ancestral traumas. This therapy should come at no cost to the ADOS community.

• America has never atoned for its original sin of slavery in the form of reparations. It is our position that H.R. 40 be passed, and additional supportive measures implemented. We need to gather the data on the level of wealth that was lost as a direct result of slavery, and the era of Jim Crow that followed. In the paper “40 acres and a mule in the 21st century” Economist Sandy Darity of Duke University assessed the value today as:

If we also take as a conservative estimate the total number of ex-slaves who had attained emancipation at the close of the Civil War as 4 million persons, 40 million acres of land valued at $400 million should have been distributed to the ex-slaves in 1865. The present value of that sum of money compounded from 1865 at 6 percent (5 percent for interest earned and 1 percent as an inflation adjustment) would amount to more than $1.3 trillion. If there are approximately 30 million descendants of enslaved Africans in the United States today, the estimate based on 40 acres yields an allocation of slightly more than $400,000 per recipient.
#ADOS demands that there be a real review of direct payouts needed to be made to eligible recipients from gathered data, and progress be made toward making #ADOS families whole.



Without these measures being instituted, ADOS are locked out of the country our ancestors built during chattel slavery. Without reforms through transformative government, we will be left to continue living a third world life in a first world country.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Like I said, it can something negotiated. Never said I was trusting this government. And it doesn't have to be a large sum of money. That's what people say that want to shoot it down quick. It can be a certain amount paid to people yearly for the rest of their lives.

You don't need to say sorry, we already know where you stand on this.

I was not going to say sorry for anything, I don't see the need to. I responded to your words.

And we know where I stand. I support reparations for African Americans, I said this numerous times, but I feel systemic changes would be better than a lump sum.

Or was there another strawman you were trying to peddle?

You now have shifted reparations to it being an entitlement program, which opens up another discussion about how to construct, fund, and administer such program. But I know you have zero interest about making a nuanced discussion about it.

 

[largofool]

Its especially patronizing for black immigrants and their offspring to try to dictate the terms of the repayments owed to us

 

[largofool]

Tangibles such as?

Hopefully Deez Nuts runs again as a independent in 2020 advocating for reparations for ados, he’ll get my vote

 

[AEA18]

Hopefully Deez Nuts runs again as a independent in 2020 advocating for reparations for ados, he’ll get my vote

 

[largofool]

 

[RustyShackleford]

This is what I was talking about.

In their policy demands the pick their multipliers to come up with a specific number. That is all I meant. That the injured party, in this case, needs to be the ones determining the payout if there is ever one

Regarding your previous question.

First with a lump sum I have concerns on a macro and micro level.

-On a macro level since a payout will reach into the trillions, what effect will it have on the economy? Yes, there would be a large stimulatory effect because so many people at the bottom of the income distribution will. But if we tax more to find the pay then we will also have to tax some beneficiaries more. If we borrow then that might push interest rates up. Along with the future payments to service that debt then we are looking at dealing with forces that will contract our economy. A contraction that will still disproportionately hurt black folk

I do not want to make the argument it is too expensive, but given our current fiscal situation, these things have to be considered. If we were in the same financial situation we had in 1999-2000, then I don't have these concerns.

-Along those little early, there might also be a crowding out effect when it comes to other policies black folk need. Current social/welfare programs still need to be funded (even though in the short run funding requirements will increase). Also, there are a lot of other programs black folk would benefit a lot from. Medicate for all, universal childcare, and infrastructure program, expansion of public transportation systems. Since many of these are very expensive I fear that we end up in a situation where reparations money that was in theory intended to right a wrong and provide an economic stimulus, is practice is actually money folk gotta use to survive because of the lack of services.

-There are not enough legal and socioeconomic policies and institutions in place to protect much of this money from being sucked out of the black community. If place folk still face discrimination in the labor and lending market, then lower wages and higher interest rates will slowly siphon money out of the community and black into the hands of the rich white capitalist. Big business will find more schemes to target that money.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Its especially patronizing for black immigrants and their offspring to try to dictate the terms of the repayments owed to us

You really need to put your xenophobia aside.

It seems like your main goal for this movement is not to improve the lies of descendants of slaves, but for it to be an outlet so you can voice your disdain for black immigrants

 

[largofool]

to me it sounds like you guys are waiting for a big bag of money

permanent social programs and tax subsidies would be worth much more than a lump sum payment.

Not to mention lump sum payment comes with other undesirable effects.

It’s hard to distinguish allies from enemies when so called proponents of reparations for ados make statements like these

You’d think it was a white supremist raffling off these right wing talking points, not our brothers who immigrated to the us from countries of the diaspora

 

[Nouss]

Its especially patronizing for black immigrants and their offspring to try to dictate the terms of the repayments owed to us

What about the non immigrant black folks on this very page that disagree with you?

 

[largofool]

No agenda for ados on the dem ticket, no vote from me. You mad?

 

[largofool]

What about the non immigrant black folks on this very page that disagree with you?

It’s not patronizing. Next!

 

[RustyShackleford]

It’s hard to distinguish allies from enemies when so called proponents of reparations for ados make statements like these

You’d think it was a white supremist raffling off these right wing talking points, not our brothers who immigrated to the us from countries of the diaspora

My God. You are completely taking words out of context to make a massive reach.

Suggesting one form reparations might be more valuable than the other is somehow a white supremacist talking point?

WTF man.

 

[largofool]

You really need to put your xenophobia aside.

It seems like your main goal for this movement is not to improve the lies of descendants of slaves, but for it to be an outlet so you can voice your disdain for black immigrants

My God. You are completely taking words out of context to make a massive reach.

Being critical of opinions and thoughts from those from other countries somehow make one a xenophobe?

WTF man.