Blacks and Latinos in CA blamed for Prop 8 passing

[wawaweewa]

Wait.
Since homosexuals can't get marriage recognized by the state than they're oppressed?

I don't understand the reasoning behind gay people wanting to adopt a religious institution that is and has been anti-gay.
What's the difference between civil unions and marriage?

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

No one but the OP is trying to make this a race issue. The articles are based on fact, that a higher minority turnout had a large impact on the passing of Prop 8. If that turnout had not been as high as it was than it could have come out different.

how can you explain the stereotypical flamboyancy belligerence of homosexuals African Americans, the bright colors gang violence, the stereotypical voice the high levels of crime etc etc????? And you say that gays don't have a choice African Americans should have equal rights, they could just stay quiet... the whole world doesn't have time to listen to the concern of a few "sexually confused" differently colored people. Gay Black people can live their life however they want, but why do they need to constantly complain about their problems as if they have it so hard. If they just shut up all their problems would be avoided, no one would know that they are gay oppressed and no one would make fun of/listen to them. Gay Black people don't need to "express" their sexuality inequality so loudly. It gets damn annoying having to listen to gay African American people complain all the time. If we were to go back ten years, even homosexuals African Americans would have laughed at the idea of gay marriage desegregation.

Thats how close your argument is to that of a white supremacist during the time of the Civil Rights movement. Absolutely disgusting. Are you alright with all of that?


Also, some of you sound confused about exactly what Civil Rights are. Its the rights of ALL people.

How do you explain homosexuality in animals if people are not born that way? Point blank, it is not a choice, and they need the same rights as the rest of us. The fact that people would take rights away from a minority group is very discouraging, and it shows that America as a whole has strayed away from its roots of equality, whether it be racial, religious, or sexual.

1. Yeah there is no conclusive evidence of the bolded. Try again.

2. Good things those stereotypes werent the face of the black civil right movement. When the face of your party is dudes in assless chaps, people in bdsm leather, and ******s, its hard to get anytype of respect from the mainstream, right or wrong. How can a group of people sell you on this as acceptable in the mainstream and then act indignant when people are turned off. This is the equivalent of having Al Sharpton as the face of black America. Until it changed, blacks had a hard time breaking through. The mainstream gays need to take over, until Bob from accounting, who just happens to like penis becomes the face of the movement. They can expect more defeats like the ones they suffered a week ago.


Not that I meant any of what I edited in that paragraph, but to say that some of those stereotypes were absent from the Black Civil Rightsmovement is false. Look at the Black Panthers who preached getting their rights by any means necessary. Actually the men in assless chaps are not the face ofthe Gay Rights Movement. Men like Harvey Milk have been fighting for it for decades. You only see the men in assless chaps because that what you want to payattention to for some strange reason. Their movement is more than just parades of men walking around in thongs.


If you want to deny the animal argument, then how can you deny scientific studies that have shown evidence that homosexuality is not a choice?

Right, because God says its wrong. Well I can't argue with a 2000 year old work of fiction.

 

[vctry20]

Originally Posted by MilitaryIV

Originally Posted by 5thGearidah

Religion the non seperation of church and state FTL!!!

so you want to take away religious peoples right to vote? (playing devils advocate)

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Wait.
Since homosexuals can't get marriage recognized by the state than they're oppressed?

I don't understand the reasoning behind gay people wanting to adopt a religious institution that is and has been anti-gay.

I came to the conclusion that they want the benefits of a married couple, I told you so or they just want the highest rank for a relationship. Butmarriage originated from religion/God so for people to say "separation of church and state" its bull because all they are doing is using the stateto over turn what the bible/church are against.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by vctry20

Originally Posted by MilitaryIV

Originally Posted by 5thGearidah

Religion the non seperation of church and state FTL!!!

so you want to take away religious peoples right to vote? (playing devils advocate)

I wasn't born in the US therefore I can't ever be President.
Technically, I don't have the same rights as afforded to other citizens even though I'm a citizen.

Am I oppressed? Does that mean all my other rights are useless?

Gay people should be fighting against marriage as a state sanctioned institution, not fighting to adopt an institution that is inherently anti-gay.

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

No one but the OP is trying to make this a race issue. The articles are based on fact, that a higher minority turnout had a large impact on the passing of Prop 8. If that turnout had not been as high as it was than it could have come out different.

how can you explain the stereotypical flamboyancy belligerence of homosexuals African Americans, the bright colors gang violence, the stereotypical voice the high levels of crime etc etc????? And you say that gays don't have a choice African Americans should have equal rights, they could just stay quiet... the whole world doesn't have time to listen to the concern of a few "sexually confused" differently colored people. Gay Black people can live their life however they want, but why do they need to constantly complain about their problems as if they have it so hard. If they just shut up all their problems would be avoided, no one would know that they are gay oppressed and no one would make fun of/listen to them. Gay Black people don't need to "express" their sexuality inequality so loudly. It gets damn annoying having to listen to gay African American people complain all the time. If we were to go back ten years, even homosexuals African Americans would have laughed at the idea of gay marriage desegregation.

Thats how close your argument is to that of a white supremacist during the time of the Civil Rights movement. Absolutely disgusting. Are you alright with all of that?


Also, some of you sound confused about exactly what Civil Rights are. Its the rights of ALL people.

How do you explain homosexuality in animals if people are not born that way? Point blank, it is not a choice, and they need the same rights as the rest of us. The fact that people would take rights away from a minority group is very discouraging, and it shows that America as a whole has strayed away from its roots of equality, whether it be racial, religious, or sexual.




Truest statement in this thread. But I just come to the conclusion that within 10 years itll pass after going back and forth and back and forth so until then Ijust SMH at intolerate people

 

[infamousod]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Wait.
Since homosexuals can't get marriage recognized by the state than they're oppressed?

I don't understand the reasoning behind gay people wanting to adopt a religious institution that is and has been anti-gay.

I came to the conclusion that they want the benefits of a married couple, I told you so or they just want the highest rank for a relationship. But marriage originated from religion/God so for people to say "separation of church and state" its bull because all they are doing is using the state to over turn what the bible/church are against.

well there are a lot of different arguments, the most practical being insurance benefits. and others just want, like you said, to be closely tied to the onethey are emotionally attached to etc etc.

marriage has been turned into a legal status, so whether it was religion first is moot. but of course the people casting the ballots always rule.

 

[rko2004]

It does not mean your intolerant because you don't want to go against your religious or moral beliefs.






WE ARE NOT ANIMALS!

well there are a lot of different arguments, the most practical being insurance benefits. and others just want, like you said, to be closely tied to the one they are emotionally attached to etc etc.

marriage has been turned into a legal status, so whether it was religion first is moot. but of course the people casting the ballots always rule.
But my thing is how in the heck did marriage ever become legal issue? Thats wild.

But just like they went pissy party over the passing of prop 8 and they almost attack a woman carrying a cross. WATCH WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY WANT THEIR CHURCHTO MARRY THEM BUT THE PASTOR REFUSES!

 

[prurientsole]

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

2. Good things those stereotypes werent the face of the black civil right movement. When the face of your party is dudes in assless chaps, people in bdsm leather, and ******s, its hard to get anytype of respect from the mainstream, right or wrong. How can a group of people sell you on this as acceptable in the mainstream and then act indignant when people are turned off. This is the equivalent of having Al Sharpton as the face of black America. Until it changed, blacks had a hard time breaking through. The mainstream gays need to take over, until Bob from accounting, who just happens to like penis becomes the face of the movement. They can expect more defeats like the ones they suffered a week ago.

So that was your point.

Just as I thought.

Hence my comment before.

If you truly believe that "dudes in assless chaps, people in bdsm leather, and ******s" are the face of the gay movement, then you're no smarterthan someone who turns on BET and believes that that's an accurate representation of black people.

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

It does not mean your intolerant because you don't want to go against your religious or moral beliefs.






WE ARE NOT ANIMALS!

You're wrong, yes it does. It was intolerant when people used the Bible to go against freeing the slaves. It was intolerant when people usedthe Bible to enslave people in the first place. It was intolerant when people used the Bible to try to fight interracial marriage and it is still intoleranttoday when people try and use the Bible, a 2000 year old work of fiction to ostracize the gay community and deny them rights.


We came from animals, we breathe like animals, we have animalistic insticts, so yes, we ARE animals.

 

[schrutefarms]

Originally Posted by infamousod

How do you explain homosexuality in animals if people are not born that way? Point blank, it is not a choice, and they need the same rights as the rest of us.

its simple logic: humans are animals, animals need to procreate, animals are born with a natural attraction to the opposite sex. or even forget animals and just think logically, why would two people of the same sex use their reproductive organs that way? its not natural

notice I'm staying away from the issue of them being life partners or married or whatever. strictly speaking, being gay is either a choice or a genetic defect.
so you're saying it's either a choice or it's not. well obviously.

 

[jordanfiend85]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

No one but the OP is trying to make this a race issue. The articles are based on fact, that a higher minority turnout had a large impact on the passing of Prop 8. If that turnout had not been as high as it was than it could have come out different.

how can you explain the stereotypical flamboyancy belligerence of homosexuals African Americans, the bright colors gang violence, the stereotypical voice the high levels of crime etc etc????? And you say that gays don't have a choice African Americans should have equal rights, they could just stay quiet... the whole world doesn't have time to listen to the concern of a few "sexually confused" differently colored people. Gay Black people can live their life however they want, but why do they need to constantly complain about their problems as if they have it so hard. If they just shut up all their problems would be avoided, no one would know that they are gay oppressed and no one would make fun of/listen to them. Gay Black people don't need to "express" their sexuality inequality so loudly. It gets damn annoying having to listen to gay African American people complain all the time. If we were to go back ten years, even homosexuals African Americans would have laughed at the idea of gay marriage desegregation.

Thats how close your argument is to that of a white supremacist during the time of the Civil Rights movement. Absolutely disgusting. Are you alright with all of that?


Also, some of you sound confused about exactly what Civil Rights are. Its the rights of ALL people.

How do you explain homosexuality in animals if people are not born that way? Point blank, it is not a choice, and they need the same rights as the rest of us. The fact that people would take rights away from a minority group is very discouraging, and it shows that America as a whole has strayed away from its roots of equality, whether it be racial, religious, or sexual.

1. Yeah there is no conclusive evidence of the bolded. Try again.

2. Good things those stereotypes werent the face of the black civil right movement. When the face of your party is dudes in assless chaps, people in bdsm leather, and ******s, its hard to get anytype of respect from the mainstream, right or wrong. How can a group of people sell you on this as acceptable in the mainstream and then act indignant when people are turned off. This is the equivalent of having Al Sharpton as the face of black America. Until it changed, blacks had a hard time breaking through. The mainstream gays need to take over, until Bob from accounting, who just happens to like penis becomes the face of the movement. They can expect more defeats like the ones they suffered a week ago.

Not that I meant any of what I edited in that paragraph, but to say that some of those stereotypes were absent from the Black Civil Rights movement is false. Look at the Black Panthers who preached getting their rights by any means necessary. Actually the men in assless chaps are not the face of the Gay Rights Movement. Men like Harvey Milk have been fighting for it for decades. You only see the men in assless chaps because that what you want to pay attention to for some strange reason. Their movement is more than just parades of men walking around in thongs.


If you want to deny the animal argument, then how can you deny scientific studies that have shown evidence that homosexuality is not a choice?

Right, because God says its wrong. Well I can't argue with a 2000 year old work of fiction.




The Black Panthers is now equated with gangs, and the shucking and jiving of BET negroes? There is nothing dignified about the presentation of blacks in themass media today.While the black panthers, were a dignified organization that believed in an empowered black people. There is nothing dignified about the waysgays present their agenda. Maybe its the mainstream media and their liberal agenda that presents gays this way,

but when you're gay pride day presents the images that it does dont getoffended when mainstream Americans reject your sub-culture. They need more Marches on Washington and less assless chaps, and people in leather outfits. Neverheard of Harvey Milk, has the media been suprressing him, when Rosie O'Donnell for all intents and purposes is the face of your movement, failure isimminent. They're message is not articulated well. I wont even get into the legal discussion and ramifications of gays becoming a protected class under theconstitution.


As for the homosexuality in animals argument. I'm trying to find the info I read somewhere, but most of the discoveries have been found by one scientist,and its unsure whether they are dominance activities or actual homosexuality.

 

[jordanfiend85]

Originally Posted by PrurientSole

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

2. Good things those stereotypes werent the face of the black civil right movement. When the face of your party is dudes in assless chaps, people in bdsm leather, and ******s, its hard to get anytype of respect from the mainstream, right or wrong. How can a group of people sell you on this as acceptable in the mainstream and then act indignant when people are turned off. This is the equivalent of having Al Sharpton as the face of black America. Until it changed, blacks had a hard time breaking through. The mainstream gays need to take over, until Bob from accounting, who just happens to like penis becomes the face of the movement. They can expect more defeats like the ones they suffered a week ago.

So that was your point.

Just as I thought.

Hence my comment before.

If you truly believe that "dudes in assless chaps, people in bdsm leather, and ******s" are the face of the gay movement, then you're no smarter than someone who turns on BET and believes that that's an accurate representation of black people.

Reading is obviously not your strong suit. My point is not what I believe to be the face of homosexuality in America but how they are presented in the media.Until they do a better job of changing that perception ( a gay MLK have you) they will continue to be defeated like they were on Tuesday. Also their whiningand racist comments the last few days wont do anything but to justify those who voted for Prop 8's decision. Their approach is totally wrong.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by RKO2004

It does not mean your intolerant because you don't want to go against your religious or moral beliefs.






WE ARE NOT ANIMALS!

You're wrong, yes it does. It was intolerant when people used the Bible to go against freeing the slaves. It was intolerant when people used the Bible to enslave people in the first place. It was intolerant when people used the Bible to try to fight interracial marriage and it is still intolerant today when people try and use the Bible, a 2000 year old work of fiction to ostracize the gay community and deny them rights.


We came from animals, we breathe like animals, we have animalistic insticts, so yes, we ARE animals.

I already explained in the other thread about the interracial marriage/bible confusing. I don't think God meant slaves the way black weretreated. The people of Egypt were slaves and God ordered them to be freed so I'm pretty sure there are some contrasting styles with the way we know ofslaves and what the word may have meant back then. And a work of fiction? That work of fiction sure does know us like a fat guy knows the dollar menu don'tyou think. 2000 Years in the past and it still knows us so well. Kinda weird ya think? So do you think a human just up and came up with all that stuff? The tencommandments? Knows us pretty darn well.

Well your an animal I'm not. I didn't come from a monkey or a ape. And they have animal instincts but we have HUMAN instincts.

Edit: I'm not sure but it seems like slave back then = maid today.

 

[callhimar]

Reading is obviously not your strong suit. My point is not what I believe to be the face of homosexuality in America but how they are presented in the media. Until they do a better job of changing that perception ( a gay MLK have you) they will continue to be defeated like they were on Tuesday. Also their whining and racist comments the last few days wont do anything but to justify thoseI who voted for Prop 8's decision. Their approach is totally wrong.
I actually didn't catch that you meant it that way either. I agree completely with that, although they do have some very strong leaders whostarted getting the word out. I will agree that they do need much better media coverage, but that is more bias on the medias part.

Also, wouldn't you whine if you had some of your rights taken away by people who don't understand you or the situation that you're in?

I already explained in the other thread about the interracial marriage/bible confusing. I don't think God meant slaves the way black were treated. The people of Egypt were slaves and he wanted them freed so I'm pretty sure there are some contrasting styles with the way we know of slaves and what the word may have meant back then. And a work of fiction? That work of fiction sure does know us like a fat guy knows the dollar menu don't you think. 2000 Years in the past and it still knows us so well. Kinda weird ya think?

Its not what the Bible says per say, but how the Bible is interpreted and manipulated to fit a specific agenda as it has been throughout history.

How does it "know us?" I'm not following. There are a great deal of texts that have similarities to today's world but are fictional. Itscalled good writing, not a message from god. The bible is just one of the greatest works of fiction known to man.

Well your an animal I'm not. I didn't come from a monkey or a ape. And they have animal instincts but we have HUMAN instincts.

/Facepalm

You say tomato, I say tomAto. It is one in the same.

You may not want to accept it, but you did come from an ape.

 

[jordanfiend85]

So the media has bias now? i thought the media leaned liberal, and we all know liberals want gays to have the right to marry, right? There is no bias. Stopblaming the media for the way you are presented.

 

[bwoodfolkgd74]

And they have animal instincts but we have HUMAN instincts.
and reptiles have reptilian instincts? whats your point? all of us share the same basic instinct.

and what are these instincts you speak of?

i'm pretty sure most of them are present in the animal kingdom in some way

I didn't come from a monkey

sort of funny, since monkeys have voice boxes similar to ours and can understand several or so monkey "languages".

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

And a work of fiction? That work of fiction sure does know us like a fat guy knows the dollar menu don't you think. 2000 Years in the past and it still knows us so well. Kinda weird ya think? So do you think a human just up and came up with all that stuff? The ten commandments? Knows us pretty darn well.

Ethics maybe? How does writing a solid way to live your life= knowing us well. We've been "living in the last days" for 100's ofyears according to christians. Everytime something bad happens my mom goes "the world is gonna end" just cause Hurricane Katrina, 9/11, Iraq, Gaypeople everywhere. Well I'm still alive

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

So the media has bias now? i thought the media leaned liberal, and we all know liberals want gays to have the right to marry, right? There is no bias. Stop blaming the media for the way you are presented.

You would think, but that is not always the case. I'm sure that the Civil Rights movement was not very well received by most media outletsearly on either.

Who is this "you" you speak of btw? I'm not gay. I am, however, for the equal rights of all human beings.

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

So the media has bias now? i thought the media leaned liberal, and we all know liberals want gays to have the right to marry, right? There is no bias. Stop blaming the media for the way you are presented.

The similarity in these arguments to African-American arguments is uncanny. I don't even like comparing the two movements but you guys make it too easy.

PS: The Governator's reaction


Speaking on CNN's "Late Edition" Sunday, Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger expressed disappointment atProposition 8's passage.

"It is unfortunate," Schwarzenegger said. "But it is not the end because I think this will go back into the courts. ...It's the same as in the 1948 case when blacks and whites were not allowed to marry. This falls into the same category."

 

[jordanfiend85]

Not to turn this thread off track, but using the human sense of time to understand Biblical prophesy and timeline is laughable @ best.

 

[jordanfiend85]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

So the media has bias now? i thought the media leaned liberal, and we all know liberals want gays to have the right to marry, right? There is no bias. Stop blaming the media for the way you are presented.

You would think, but that is not always the case. I'm sure that the Civil Rights movement was not very well received by most media outlets early on either.

Who is this "you" you speak of btw? I'm not gay. I am, however, for the equal rights of all human beings.

perhaps, but the face of the movement was MLK and Malcolm. No matter how much you disagreed with their stances one had to respect their dignity. The gaymovement doesnt have that yet.

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

So the media has bias now? i thought the media leaned liberal, and we all know liberals want gays to have the right to marry, right? There is no bias. Stop blaming the media for the way you are presented.

You would think, but that is not always the case. I'm sure that the Civil Rights movement was not very well received by most media outlets early on either.

Who is this "you" you speak of btw? I'm not gay. I am, however, for the equal rights of all human beings.

perhaps, but the face of the movement was MLK and Malcolm. No matter how much you disagreed with their stances one had to respect their dignity. The gay movement doesnt have that yet.

I'm sure a few select caucasian folk might disagee with you on this statement. No one who respected me with dignity threw rocks at more, orbombs through my house or burned crosses on my lawn.

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

So the media has bias now? i thought the media leaned liberal, and we all know liberals want gays to have the right to marry, right? There is no bias. Stop blaming the media for the way you are presented.

You would think, but that is not always the case. I'm sure that the Civil Rights movement was not very well received by most media outlets early on either.

Who is this "you" you speak of btw? I'm not gay. I am, however, for the equal rights of all human beings.

perhaps, but the face of the movement was MLK and Malcolm. No matter how much you disagreed with their stances one had to respect their dignity. The gay movement doesnt have that yet.

Which is the exact reason why the media is bias toward them.

I'm sure a few select caucasian folk might disagee with you on this statement. No one who respected me with dignity threw rocks at more, or bombs through my house or burned crosses on my lawn.
Very, very true.

 

[mangudai954]

Oh man what a circus of a thread. Sheesh.

You know something I keep seeing? Religious people being labeled as dumb because they look toward a book or a being they have never seen before.



Yea, I don't like that. Or if someone is against same sex marriage they're uneducated.

How do you explain homosexuality in animals if people are not born that way? Point blank, it is not a choice, and they need the same rights as the rest of us.


We are not animals so this isn't relevant.