Breaking News: Derrick Rose named 2010-2011 MVP

Onionslice you remind me of enPhan who created an epic post on Lebron and pretty much argued with every Lebron hater.
laugh.gif
 
Onionslice you remind me of enPhan who created an epic post on Lebron and pretty much argued with every Lebron hater.
laugh.gif
 
damn... lebron stans still crying...

 
HE ISNT THE MVP CUS HE RIDES WADES CAPE

but you lebrick fan boys dont have the ability to comprehend that
eyes.gif
 
damn... lebron stans still crying...

 
HE ISNT THE MVP CUS HE RIDES WADES CAPE

but you lebrick fan boys dont have the ability to comprehend that
eyes.gif
 
mgrand15 wrote: Do you honestly think that Bulls team without Rose is winning 50 games? That team would have no playmaker or scorer. They'd be relying on Boozer to create shots on offense who was out for almost half the season. The team would play great defense and play hard but they wouldn't be able to score enough to win. You take Lebron out of Miami and they still have Wade and Bosh to pick up the slack for most of Lebron's abilities. Wade and Bosh would be scoring more and creating more plays for the rest of the team, two things which they have shown to be able to do at an all star level.
Here's the problem with your argument. We can't judge an athlete's performance based on hypothetical situations of "if they weren't there". All we can do is judge the reality. Not the pretend situation that never existed. It's just a fact that both LeBron and Dwight make a larger contribution to their teams than Rose does. When Rose is not playing, it's less of an impact to the Bulls than it is to the Heat/Magic when Bron/Dwight are not playing. We have the stats that shows this to be true.

We can't give credit for the imaginary situation of a player just not being on the team just like we can't give LeBron extra credit for having another superstar he has to share the spotlight with. We don't say "LeBron has to share potential stat building with D.Wade, so he gets a few extra points". 

We can only judge the reality. All we can look at is who makes the largest contribution to their team. Let's remember, it the "most valuable player" award. Not the "best player on a bad team" award. Not that Rose is on a bad team.
Click to expand...
 
mgrand15 wrote: Do you honestly think that Bulls team without Rose is winning 50 games? That team would have no playmaker or scorer. They'd be relying on Boozer to create shots on offense who was out for almost half the season. The team would play great defense and play hard but they wouldn't be able to score enough to win. You take Lebron out of Miami and they still have Wade and Bosh to pick up the slack for most of Lebron's abilities. Wade and Bosh would be scoring more and creating more plays for the rest of the team, two things which they have shown to be able to do at an all star level.
Here's the problem with your argument. We can't judge an athlete's performance based on hypothetical situations of "if they weren't there". All we can do is judge the reality. Not the pretend situation that never existed. It's just a fact that both LeBron and Dwight make a larger contribution to their teams than Rose does. When Rose is not playing, it's less of an impact to the Bulls than it is to the Heat/Magic when Bron/Dwight are not playing. We have the stats that shows this to be true.

We can't give credit for the imaginary situation of a player just not being on the team just like we can't give LeBron extra credit for having another superstar he has to share the spotlight with. We don't say "LeBron has to share potential stat building with D.Wade, so he gets a few extra points". 

We can only judge the reality. All we can look at is who makes the largest contribution to their team. Let's remember, it the "most valuable player" award. Not the "best player on a bad team" award. Not that Rose is on a bad team.
Click to expand...
 
i wish they would wait til the end of the season/playoffs to give this award out. i never thought announcing it during the playoffs made any sense

does anybody know when the last time the mvp won an nba title the same year? was it shaq? duncan?
 
i wish they would wait til the end of the season/playoffs to give this award out. i never thought announcing it during the playoffs made any sense

does anybody know when the last time the mvp won an nba title the same year? was it shaq? duncan?
 
Originally Posted by NobleKane

i wish they would wait til the end of the season/playoffs to give this award out. i never thought announcing it during the playoffs made any sense

does anybody know when the last time the mvp won an nba title the same year? was it shaq? duncan?
Click to expand...
But if they didn't announce it during the playoffs, we wouldn't have "eff u" performances like Hakeem vs. David Robinson...or a few from MJ (in the Finals).

It's a regular season award, just like all the other sports. I don't care if they win a title. The last NFL MVP to win the Super Bowl was Kurt Warner in '99, for example.
 
Originally Posted by NobleKane

i wish they would wait til the end of the season/playoffs to give this award out. i never thought announcing it during the playoffs made any sense

does anybody know when the last time the mvp won an nba title the same year? was it shaq? duncan?
Click to expand...
But if they didn't announce it during the playoffs, we wouldn't have "eff u" performances like Hakeem vs. David Robinson...or a few from MJ (in the Finals).

It's a regular season award, just like all the other sports. I don't care if they win a title. The last NFL MVP to win the Super Bowl was Kurt Warner in '99, for example.
 
This dude writing essays about stats and leaving out the most important one of all (quite possibly the only one that matters). WINS and LOSSES.
 
This dude writing essays about stats and leaving out the most important one of all (quite possibly the only one that matters). WINS and LOSSES.
 
Originally Posted by OnionSlice

Originally Posted by MrONegative

I agree LeBron's better and D12 and KD too. 
To me the first step of an MVP season is seeming like you've done everything you can possibly do, and that was the difference in your team never really failing. KD shoulda sonned Westbrook, D12 shoulda sonned everyone in his reach everyone and LeBron should've hit some gamewinners and won All-Star MVP. The momentum he would've had if he won that, would've put him right there in the conversation.

Basically Kobe and the Lakers had that All-Star weekend and 3 weeks after that LeBron would've needed for that MV3. His fault for pissing people off.
ohwell.gif
Click to expand...
LeBron was NOT going to win MVP no matter what. If he averaged 35ppg, 15 rebounds, 10 assists, 2 steals and a shot block with a 56% FG% he still would not have won. He was out of the conversation before the season started. By the same token, D.Rose as MVP was decided halfway into the season.

LeBron had the best individual numbers of any player in the league. Not opinion, fact. 

The dude was the #2 scorer in the leauge only behind KD. LeBron shot 51.1% compared to KD's 46.2%. The only top 10 scorer that shot a higher percentage was Dirk with 51.7%. LeBron is the best defender at his position in the league. Best perimeter defender in the league. Highest player efficiency rating in the league. 

Does that make you an MVP though? Remember, MVP stands for Most Valuable Player. So.......   No. Not really. It's possible to pad your own stats without really adding to the rest of the teams level of play. A better way to judge a players value to his team is win shares. 

So what are LeBron's win shares? #1 in the league in overall win shares. #1 in the league in win shares per. #1 in the league in offensive win shares. #3 in the league in defensive win shares, only behind Dwight and KG.

It's not reasonable to say LeBron is not the "most valuable player" in the game. You can't be at the top of every list of player efficiency and team value ratings and be less valuable than someone who's lower or not there at all.

So is D.Rose deserving. Well.... simply put... no. If someone else is more deserving of a title that only one person can receive, then you're not deserving. In this case, there are 2 players (LeBron & Dwight) who are more deserving.

This MVP race has been more of a "I like this guy and he had a great year" race. You have people saying things like "LeBron should have hit some game winners". Have you not seen some of these bricks D.Rose has been throwing up in the second half of the season? He's been jacking up shots at Kobe levels.

LeBron is held to a different standard. It's that simple. Like I said, #6 was out of the conversation before the season started. 
Click to expand...

  
pimp.gif

im sayin too, dudes standing up for rose have no stats to back them up. no one was addressing me.
plus lebron is more clutch, even with the bad streak. got the stats for that too.

he plays with dwade, so? nash had a stacked team, shaq second with dwade avging more, was it a problem for them?
He is the true mvp.

rose is nice, he should in no way be mvp tho, it doesnt make sense.
more valuable to the team? lebron
better stats? lebron
better player? lebron
what does rose have over him? only 4 wins
"hes a nice guy", "hes humble", "his j got better", those arent reasons man.
 
Originally Posted by OnionSlice

Originally Posted by MrONegative

I agree LeBron's better and D12 and KD too. 
To me the first step of an MVP season is seeming like you've done everything you can possibly do, and that was the difference in your team never really failing. KD shoulda sonned Westbrook, D12 shoulda sonned everyone in his reach everyone and LeBron should've hit some gamewinners and won All-Star MVP. The momentum he would've had if he won that, would've put him right there in the conversation.

Basically Kobe and the Lakers had that All-Star weekend and 3 weeks after that LeBron would've needed for that MV3. His fault for pissing people off.
ohwell.gif
Click to expand...
LeBron was NOT going to win MVP no matter what. If he averaged 35ppg, 15 rebounds, 10 assists, 2 steals and a shot block with a 56% FG% he still would not have won. He was out of the conversation before the season started. By the same token, D.Rose as MVP was decided halfway into the season.

LeBron had the best individual numbers of any player in the league. Not opinion, fact. 

The dude was the #2 scorer in the leauge only behind KD. LeBron shot 51.1% compared to KD's 46.2%. The only top 10 scorer that shot a higher percentage was Dirk with 51.7%. LeBron is the best defender at his position in the league. Best perimeter defender in the league. Highest player efficiency rating in the league. 

Does that make you an MVP though? Remember, MVP stands for Most Valuable Player. So.......   No. Not really. It's possible to pad your own stats without really adding to the rest of the teams level of play. A better way to judge a players value to his team is win shares. 

So what are LeBron's win shares? #1 in the league in overall win shares. #1 in the league in win shares per. #1 in the league in offensive win shares. #3 in the league in defensive win shares, only behind Dwight and KG.

It's not reasonable to say LeBron is not the "most valuable player" in the game. You can't be at the top of every list of player efficiency and team value ratings and be less valuable than someone who's lower or not there at all.

So is D.Rose deserving. Well.... simply put... no. If someone else is more deserving of a title that only one person can receive, then you're not deserving. In this case, there are 2 players (LeBron & Dwight) who are more deserving.

This MVP race has been more of a "I like this guy and he had a great year" race. You have people saying things like "LeBron should have hit some game winners". Have you not seen some of these bricks D.Rose has been throwing up in the second half of the season? He's been jacking up shots at Kobe levels.

LeBron is held to a different standard. It's that simple. Like I said, #6 was out of the conversation before the season started. 
Click to expand...

  
pimp.gif

im sayin too, dudes standing up for rose have no stats to back them up. no one was addressing me.
plus lebron is more clutch, even with the bad streak. got the stats for that too.

he plays with dwade, so? nash had a stacked team, shaq second with dwade avging more, was it a problem for them?
He is the true mvp.

rose is nice, he should in no way be mvp tho, it doesnt make sense.
more valuable to the team? lebron
better stats? lebron
better player? lebron
what does rose have over him? only 4 wins
"hes a nice guy", "hes humble", "his j got better", those arent reasons man.
 
Originally Posted by f3DJam

Originally Posted by OnionSlice

Originally Posted by MrONegative

I agree LeBron's better and D12 and KD too. 
To me the first step of an MVP season is seeming like you've done everything you can possibly do, and that was the difference in your team never really failing. KD shoulda sonned Westbrook, D12 shoulda sonned everyone in his reach everyone and LeBron should've hit some gamewinners and won All-Star MVP. The momentum he would've had if he won that, would've put him right there in the conversation.

Basically Kobe and the Lakers had that All-Star weekend and 3 weeks after that LeBron would've needed for that MV3. His fault for pissing people off.
ohwell.gif
Click to expand...
LeBron was NOT going to win MVP no matter what. If he averaged 35ppg, 15 rebounds, 10 assists, 2 steals and a shot block with a 56% FG% he still would not have won. He was out of the conversation before the season started. By the same token, D.Rose as MVP was decided halfway into the season.

LeBron had the best individual numbers of any player in the league. Not opinion, fact. 

The dude was the #2 scorer in the leauge only behind KD. LeBron shot 51.1% compared to KD's 46.2%. The only top 10 scorer that shot a higher percentage was Dirk with 51.7%. LeBron is the best defender at his position in the league. Best perimeter defender in the league. Highest player efficiency rating in the league. 

Does that make you an MVP though? Remember, MVP stands for Most Valuable Player. So.......   No. Not really. It's possible to pad your own stats without really adding to the rest of the teams level of play. A better way to judge a players value to his team is win shares. 

So what are LeBron's win shares? #1 in the league in overall win shares. #1 in the league in win shares per. #1 in the league in offensive win shares. #3 in the league in defensive win shares, only behind Dwight and KG.

It's not reasonable to say LeBron is not the "most valuable player" in the game. You can't be at the top of every list of player efficiency and team value ratings and be less valuable than someone who's lower or not there at all.

So is D.Rose deserving. Well.... simply put... no. If someone else is more deserving of a title that only one person can receive, then you're not deserving. In this case, there are 2 players (LeBron & Dwight) who are more deserving.

This MVP race has been more of a "I like this guy and he had a great year" race. You have people saying things like "LeBron should have hit some game winners". Have you not seen some of these bricks D.Rose has been throwing up in the second half of the season? He's been jacking up shots at Kobe levels.

LeBron is held to a different standard. It's that simple. Like I said, #6 was out of the conversation before the season started. 
Click to expand...

  
pimp.gif

im sayin too, dudes standing up for rose have no stats to back them up. no one was addressing me.
plus lebron is more clutch, even with the bad streak. got the stats for that too.

he plays with dwade, so? nash had a stacked team, shaq second with dwade avging more, was it a problem for them?
He is the true mvp.

rose is nice, he should in no way be mvp tho, it doesnt make sense.
more valuable to the team? lebronbetter stats? lebronbetter player? lebronwhat does rose have over him? only 4 wins
"hes a nice guy", "hes humble", "his j got better", those arent reasons man.
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree to an extent... See what i have notice in this thread and similar ones like this is ppl often confuse most valuable with most important. In the aspect of team play rose is the most valuable asset offensively, but the most important aspect is their defense, which isnt rose exactly strong suit. In orlando case Howard is the most important aspect of there team game. Their game/team is predecated on post play and in and out ball. Without Howard the orl whole team play identity is gone. You cant replace his importance/presence to the way orl plays with another player. I whole-heartly feel that put a wade, etc player who game is similar to rose and honestly not much would differ from their style of play or their winning results.

The bulls winning ways are founded on strong tough-nose defense. And Rose isnt the catalyst, driving force for the most important piece for the bulls winning..DEFENSE.
  
 
Originally Posted by f3DJam

Originally Posted by OnionSlice

Originally Posted by MrONegative

I agree LeBron's better and D12 and KD too. 
To me the first step of an MVP season is seeming like you've done everything you can possibly do, and that was the difference in your team never really failing. KD shoulda sonned Westbrook, D12 shoulda sonned everyone in his reach everyone and LeBron should've hit some gamewinners and won All-Star MVP. The momentum he would've had if he won that, would've put him right there in the conversation.

Basically Kobe and the Lakers had that All-Star weekend and 3 weeks after that LeBron would've needed for that MV3. His fault for pissing people off.
ohwell.gif
Click to expand...
LeBron was NOT going to win MVP no matter what. If he averaged 35ppg, 15 rebounds, 10 assists, 2 steals and a shot block with a 56% FG% he still would not have won. He was out of the conversation before the season started. By the same token, D.Rose as MVP was decided halfway into the season.

LeBron had the best individual numbers of any player in the league. Not opinion, fact. 

The dude was the #2 scorer in the leauge only behind KD. LeBron shot 51.1% compared to KD's 46.2%. The only top 10 scorer that shot a higher percentage was Dirk with 51.7%. LeBron is the best defender at his position in the league. Best perimeter defender in the league. Highest player efficiency rating in the league. 

Does that make you an MVP though? Remember, MVP stands for Most Valuable Player. So.......   No. Not really. It's possible to pad your own stats without really adding to the rest of the teams level of play. A better way to judge a players value to his team is win shares. 

So what are LeBron's win shares? #1 in the league in overall win shares. #1 in the league in win shares per. #1 in the league in offensive win shares. #3 in the league in defensive win shares, only behind Dwight and KG.

It's not reasonable to say LeBron is not the "most valuable player" in the game. You can't be at the top of every list of player efficiency and team value ratings and be less valuable than someone who's lower or not there at all.

So is D.Rose deserving. Well.... simply put... no. If someone else is more deserving of a title that only one person can receive, then you're not deserving. In this case, there are 2 players (LeBron & Dwight) who are more deserving.

This MVP race has been more of a "I like this guy and he had a great year" race. You have people saying things like "LeBron should have hit some game winners". Have you not seen some of these bricks D.Rose has been throwing up in the second half of the season? He's been jacking up shots at Kobe levels.

LeBron is held to a different standard. It's that simple. Like I said, #6 was out of the conversation before the season started. 
Click to expand...

  
pimp.gif

im sayin too, dudes standing up for rose have no stats to back them up. no one was addressing me.
plus lebron is more clutch, even with the bad streak. got the stats for that too.

he plays with dwade, so? nash had a stacked team, shaq second with dwade avging more, was it a problem for them?
He is the true mvp.

rose is nice, he should in no way be mvp tho, it doesnt make sense.
more valuable to the team? lebronbetter stats? lebronbetter player? lebronwhat does rose have over him? only 4 wins
"hes a nice guy", "hes humble", "his j got better", those arent reasons man.
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree to an extent... See what i have notice in this thread and similar ones like this is ppl often confuse most valuable with most important. In the aspect of team play rose is the most valuable asset offensively, but the most important aspect is their defense, which isnt rose exactly strong suit. In orlando case Howard is the most important aspect of there team game. Their game/team is predecated on post play and in and out ball. Without Howard the orl whole team play identity is gone. You cant replace his importance/presence to the way orl plays with another player. I whole-heartly feel that put a wade, etc player who game is similar to rose and honestly not much would differ from their style of play or their winning results.

The bulls winning ways are founded on strong tough-nose defense. And Rose isnt the catalyst, driving force for the most important piece for the bulls winning..DEFENSE.
  
 
Originally Posted by CParkFresh

This dude writing essays about stats and leaving out the most important one of all (quite possibly the only one that matters). WINS and LOSSES.
Click to expand...


You're right. W-L are the most important.
Except it's not achieved by individual players in a team sport.
 
Originally Posted by CParkFresh

This dude writing essays about stats and leaving out the most important one of all (quite possibly the only one that matters). WINS and LOSSES.
Click to expand...


You're right. W-L are the most important.
Except it's not achieved by individual players in a team sport.
 
he went from the "talentless" cavs to the stacked heat. and won less games. end of story.
 
he went from the "talentless" cavs to the stacked heat. and won less games. end of story.
 
If wins and losses are a main factor for determining MVP, one could argue Rose isn't the MVP. The main reasons of having the #1 spot isn't Rose dominance offensively, but rather team defense. And as I stated before Rose isn't the driving force of the teams defense. Which is the most valuable aspect to the bulls winning ways. It's like when the pistons were champs. It wouldve been kinda hard to award the most offensive/least defensive player the MVP, on a team who winning ways are based on defense.It's the very reason Nash won. They were one of the best teams that yr. Who wins were mostly due to there dominant offensive. That team most valuable and important aspect was solely on Nash being able to orchestrate the offense. Without him that team had nothing. Seeing as there niche was offense. With out Rose the bulls are still a dominant force defensively. Defense got the bulls the record the well deserved. It was Rose offense per say. Even if Rose has off games/less than stellar offensive games. I'm confident the bulls defense could still be a winning ball club.
 
If wins and losses are a main factor for determining MVP, one could argue Rose isn't the MVP. The main reasons of having the #1 spot isn't Rose dominance offensively, but rather team defense. And as I stated before Rose isn't the driving force of the teams defense. Which is the most valuable aspect to the bulls winning ways. It's like when the pistons were champs. It wouldve been kinda hard to award the most offensive/least defensive player the MVP, on a team who winning ways are based on defense.It's the very reason Nash won. They were one of the best teams that yr. Who wins were mostly due to there dominant offensive. That team most valuable and important aspect was solely on Nash being able to orchestrate the offense. Without him that team had nothing. Seeing as there niche was offense. With out Rose the bulls are still a dominant force defensively. Defense got the bulls the record the well deserved. It was Rose offense per say. Even if Rose has off games/less than stellar offensive games. I'm confident the bulls defense could still be a winning ball club.
 
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