- 864
- 78
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2001
Health Insurance is not health care.
Congress clears historic health care bill...
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by superantigen,
- Start date
- 10,441
- 1,695
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2007
peace and security....
black jesus
Banned
- 1,798
- 10
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2009
youre not forced to live in this country ...and 250k is more then enough to move out
edit: if someone made 500k a year...how much more do they have to pay in taxes because of this bill going through? just wondering
- 5,983
- 533
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2004
- 1,431
- 10
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2006
I agree there should be reform. But regulate insurance companies. Don't overhaul the whole system. "our" health would be a the discrepancy of the government. A govenment committee will have to approve of any procedure, I guarantee their budget will take priority over our health. The government will have a monopoly and will force out any private insurer forcing us to have a government only ran healthcare system. Ask anyone from a country with government provided health care and see how long it takes to be seen by a physician. Cutting doctors pay and incentives and regulating everything they do will only cause a shortage of doctors and prolong the wait to be seen and treated.
- 5,983
- 533
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2004
And I shouldnt be forced to give half of my income to the govt or should I?
- 1,175
- 10
- Joined
- May 17, 2006
Your comparison is stupid.
9/11 was a terrorist attack. Of course the country is going to be united.
The health care bill is a government mandate that people purchase a good, with no respect to freedom or choice.
But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.
News flash to all: It is not the federal government's job to mandate that people "help" other people.
- 1,260
- 221
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2007
I stopped right there. Only 2% of Americans reported a gross income of over $250K a year. If your going to make a point please use facts.
Also please do not ignore the fact that the costs of providing healthcare to the UNINSURED are already passed along in the form of increasing premiums and fees of the INSURED!
- 312
- 10
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2008
People in this thread talk about how not everyone can do it, I feel like anyone can. You look at the people who do make it big from "ghettos" or low-income communities and these are the people who focus on school, don't go out to parties and just give school 110%, so don't say not everyone can do it. Anyone can do anything with hard work.
Those single mothers work hard, yeah, but you can also say they had the choice to have a kid. I know it sounds ignorant, but its the truth. I applaud those women who work hard to try to give their children opportunities they weren't able to have.
Taxing the rich more for the "better" of America? The hell, these guys worked hard to better their own lives! They needa just set a certain percent that each American gets deducted from their checks!
Those single mothers work hard, yeah, but you can also say they had the choice to have a kid. I know it sounds ignorant, but its the truth. I applaud those women who work hard to try to give their children opportunities they weren't able to have.
Taxing the rich more for the "better" of America? The hell, these guys worked hard to better their own lives! They needa just set a certain percent that each American gets deducted from their checks!
black jesus
Banned
- 1,798
- 10
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2009
if someone made 500k how much more in taxes do they have to pay because of this bill? serious question....
- 6,739
- 4,744
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2009
- 9,189
- 1,135
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2007
Or maybe you failed to comprehend the analogy I was indicating...
My point is and was..that Americans preach unity, strength, and compassion for our "fellow man" in tragic situations like 9-11...but where are the same ideals when the hard working guy down the street who works 12 hours a day with a family..but can't afford health insurance for him or his family? The answer is there is no unity.....only when it's convenient.
- 4,951
- 10
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2009
Yep.
- 12,660
- 5,290
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2008
People with power (money) like to talk out the $%%.
Your false "If I could do it so can you" speech does not amuse me.
They know damn well that in order for them to stay with the power it is to their benefit that not everyone does "it". Rich people need to have a lower class in this country in order to keep the power. As more and more people join their salary bracket, their power gets divided even further.
Remember when the the drop out rates in the hood were high as hell, how far a high school diploma could get you?
Now that everyone is graduating high school and college education is stressed, suddenly high school diplomas mean nothing. As more and more people graduate college, those college degrees are treated like a high school diploma.
These false motivational speeches from these people with money mean absolutely nothing to me cause theyre the first ones crying when they have to help someone other than themselves.
- 1,683
- 39
- Joined
- May 25, 2008
I understand your point and I know that by stating my opinion many will say that I'm selfish or heartless but #*%% it, its a free country.
Having children is a choice. By not having protected sex many single mothers put themselves in the situations that they are in today. It is a woman's choice to decide if she wants children or not.
Most people have to struggle at least one time during their lives. However, there is a difference between struggling to better yourself and struggling aimlessly.
The bottom line is: the choices that you make each day can have a drastic effect on your life. If you make bad decisions and do not undergo the process to correct them, then unfortunately you may be setting yourself up for a life of struggling.
- 516
- 10
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2009
double post sorry.
- 516
- 10
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2009
I've been reading most of these repsonses, and let me just say I have a few opinions on this reform and the other issues raised in this thread.
First off, I am for the health care reform that was passed by the House yesterday. I put alot of blame on the health insurance industry. I live in Connecticut which is home to many of the health insurance companies and I know what is at stake for the many of these companies. Health Insurance companies don't care about the health of the people in this nation, at all. They have one goal in mind, it is to turn as much profit as possible. It's an industry where if you become extremely sick where you run the companies the risk to pay out large sums of money taking away from their collection, they won't hesistate to find someway either not to cover you or to drop you entirely, and that is the problem at hand. The corporations don't want this passed them, donand neither to the republicans because of $$$ for them.
I'm an not for any free handouts, in fact, I work hard and my parents work extremely hard and have no college education. They don't complain, they work backbreaking hours for not alot of pay, but they have saved and gave me the opportunity to live in nice neighborhood with a good school district. We don't drive beamers, benz or bentley's, or take luxurious vacations, but it is what it is.
What alot of people aren't realizing is this isnt a free hand out to the people living in the projects who are to lazy to go out and find work. I say screw that, no matter what the color of your skin is.
They shouldn't get anything. This bill needed to be passed for the AVERAGE american, the TYPICAL american, who wakes up everyday, works their %@% off, comes home to a decent meal and to wake up and do it all again the next day. These are the people who are struggling most. These are the people who have to worry about losing their job and subsequently their health coverage. Or watching their premiums sky rocket so out of pocket expenses are to much to handle for the necessary procedures needed to live.
Alot of people on NT wanna knock these hardworking people. I feel everyone on NT lives in a gated estate in Greenwich. These typical people aren't sitting on the couch all day asking for handouts. But they didn't graduate from the Ivy League either. These are people who literally make everything in this nation happen for all the "wealthy people." The landscapers, the construction workers, the school teachers, police officers, machinists, mechanics and sales people. They get screwed out of everything yet they are some of the most imporant people.
Not everyone has the ability to be smart, no matter how much you study. Not everyone can start a multimillon dollar business. It doesn't make those people bad, but they shouldn't be labeled lazy because they want some sort of regulation on their health care. These big corporations don't give a damn about the people who work in their offices and make little pay or the other types of people I previously mentioned. They care about their bonus and their portfolio.
I once had a conversation with a wealthy business owner. I asked how he felt about being taxed more money since he makes over $250k. He said it's not fair and that shouldn't happen. This dude takes more vacations then anyone I have ever met, he has three homes and can eat out whenever he feels like. He has more recreation toys then you can believe. I said my parents don't make close to that, and we still live somewhat comforatbly, in a town that is more expensive to live in. I know he wants to keep more of his money, but I'm just sorry that is not fair. He has all the fun in the world and is complaing about wanting more. That is GREED my friends, pure GREED. He was handed a business, he never worked hard for it either. So before you say anything, let me tell you all something: My goal is to become filthy rich, but I know from my upbringing that If i have enough to enjoy the things I just mentioned this guy has, I wouldn't be worried about having some more money taxed to benefit people who were like myself and my family growing up.
And there is one problem why people dont want to be taxed. They are in a rat race and need to have the best. To HovKid, I respect that you worked hard to become the attorney you are, I hope to be there one day. In the rent thread you said you moved to one of the communties in Long Island with a top 3 school district. We both know Long Island is like Connecticut, you don't need a top 3 school district, that just means the town you live in is way more expensive then a town with a school district ranked say 15th, for the most part. You can save a boat load more money moving to a less expensive down with a still GREAT school district for your children, but you would rather sit here and look for ways to not be taxed so you can have more money to spend that you don't necessarily need if you lived differently.
A schoold distict is great dont get me wrong, but in Long Island you can not be in top 3 pay less and still receive a damn good education for your children. You're a corporate attorney I believe, I'm pretty sure you have the brains to give your children a damn good education even if they went to a school in the South Bronx.
Prioritzie people. Keeping up the Jonses and the rat race that is America has really made that an option at the bottom of the barrel in the U.S.
First off, I am for the health care reform that was passed by the House yesterday. I put alot of blame on the health insurance industry. I live in Connecticut which is home to many of the health insurance companies and I know what is at stake for the many of these companies. Health Insurance companies don't care about the health of the people in this nation, at all. They have one goal in mind, it is to turn as much profit as possible. It's an industry where if you become extremely sick where you run the companies the risk to pay out large sums of money taking away from their collection, they won't hesistate to find someway either not to cover you or to drop you entirely, and that is the problem at hand. The corporations don't want this passed them, donand neither to the republicans because of $$$ for them.
I'm an not for any free handouts, in fact, I work hard and my parents work extremely hard and have no college education. They don't complain, they work backbreaking hours for not alot of pay, but they have saved and gave me the opportunity to live in nice neighborhood with a good school district. We don't drive beamers, benz or bentley's, or take luxurious vacations, but it is what it is.
What alot of people aren't realizing is this isnt a free hand out to the people living in the projects who are to lazy to go out and find work. I say screw that, no matter what the color of your skin is.
They shouldn't get anything. This bill needed to be passed for the AVERAGE american, the TYPICAL american, who wakes up everyday, works their %@% off, comes home to a decent meal and to wake up and do it all again the next day. These are the people who are struggling most. These are the people who have to worry about losing their job and subsequently their health coverage. Or watching their premiums sky rocket so out of pocket expenses are to much to handle for the necessary procedures needed to live.
Alot of people on NT wanna knock these hardworking people. I feel everyone on NT lives in a gated estate in Greenwich. These typical people aren't sitting on the couch all day asking for handouts. But they didn't graduate from the Ivy League either. These are people who literally make everything in this nation happen for all the "wealthy people." The landscapers, the construction workers, the school teachers, police officers, machinists, mechanics and sales people. They get screwed out of everything yet they are some of the most imporant people.
Not everyone has the ability to be smart, no matter how much you study. Not everyone can start a multimillon dollar business. It doesn't make those people bad, but they shouldn't be labeled lazy because they want some sort of regulation on their health care. These big corporations don't give a damn about the people who work in their offices and make little pay or the other types of people I previously mentioned. They care about their bonus and their portfolio.
I once had a conversation with a wealthy business owner. I asked how he felt about being taxed more money since he makes over $250k. He said it's not fair and that shouldn't happen. This dude takes more vacations then anyone I have ever met, he has three homes and can eat out whenever he feels like. He has more recreation toys then you can believe. I said my parents don't make close to that, and we still live somewhat comforatbly, in a town that is more expensive to live in. I know he wants to keep more of his money, but I'm just sorry that is not fair. He has all the fun in the world and is complaing about wanting more. That is GREED my friends, pure GREED. He was handed a business, he never worked hard for it either. So before you say anything, let me tell you all something: My goal is to become filthy rich, but I know from my upbringing that If i have enough to enjoy the things I just mentioned this guy has, I wouldn't be worried about having some more money taxed to benefit people who were like myself and my family growing up.
And there is one problem why people dont want to be taxed. They are in a rat race and need to have the best. To HovKid, I respect that you worked hard to become the attorney you are, I hope to be there one day. In the rent thread you said you moved to one of the communties in Long Island with a top 3 school district. We both know Long Island is like Connecticut, you don't need a top 3 school district, that just means the town you live in is way more expensive then a town with a school district ranked say 15th, for the most part. You can save a boat load more money moving to a less expensive down with a still GREAT school district for your children, but you would rather sit here and look for ways to not be taxed so you can have more money to spend that you don't necessarily need if you lived differently.
A schoold distict is great dont get me wrong, but in Long Island you can not be in top 3 pay less and still receive a damn good education for your children. You're a corporate attorney I believe, I'm pretty sure you have the brains to give your children a damn good education even if they went to a school in the South Bronx.
Prioritzie people. Keeping up the Jonses and the rat race that is America has really made that an option at the bottom of the barrel in the U.S.
- 1,260
- 221
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2007
On a Federal level... Please explain to me how our social security and Medicare work... Those get taken out of every one of my checks even though I do not reap the benefits.
On a state level... Many state governments MANDATE that a driver maintains car insurance.
On a local level... Municipalities MANDATE that a property owner pay taxes on their personal property so the municipality may provide goods and services to other people in the municipality. For example my tax dollars pay for the schools in my district. Even though I have no children.
It amazes me how people talk about what is and is not AMERICAN and ignore reality. IMHO, it is very sad that a basic right to adequate healthcare has been politicized to the point where people have convinced themselves that providing healthcare to all American citizens is an attack on America.
- 1,175
- 10
- Joined
- May 17, 2006
No. I think you're confused by your poor "analogy".
What is this "unity, strength, and compassion" you're talking about with 9/11? It was a terrorist attack. Americans stood together as Americans and grieved. Not to put too fine a point on it but that about sums it up what took place.
It seems your definition of unity is that those "who have" less deserve (are entitled to) a handout from those who "have more".
You find in the Constitution or Bill of Rights where it says Americans are required by government to pay a specific portion of their income so that other people can have health coverage for free.
This health care bill isn't about "unity". It isn't about "compassion". It is about income redistribution (socialism) and setting the groundwork to make amends for what some believe is an unjust country as it was founded.
- 17,832
- 8,103
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2005
- 6,739
- 4,744
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2009
Originally Posted by cguy610
This dude is bonkers.
- 1,260
- 221
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2007
N one more thing. For those of you that are outraged about the healthcare bill. Can you please explain to me your feelings on the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act. You know the 800 Billion dollar entitlement that was passed in the House by a Republican majority... final vote tally... 216 to 215.
- 900
- 48
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2002
in all seriousness, i think we as Americans need to change our culture concerning food, diet, and health. not saying we gotta eat like buddhist monks, just cut back on salt, tobacco and alcohol just a bit. the number one killer for men and women in the US is heart disease. i dont know much about this health reform bill to add anything to it, but i do know our healthcare system is over burdened with people with heart disease. healthier Americans means less visits to the doctors office, which means less COST.
- 1,683
- 39
- Joined
- May 25, 2008
Not firing shots at you, but you should read up on the constitution.
Medicare and SS being taken out of your check is a tax which the federal government has the authority to do.
The constitution clearly outlines the authority of the federal government and transfers all other powers which were not given to the federal government to the states.
So, bills like these that seek to expand the role of the government beyond its initial scope are attacks on the constitution as well as attacks on state sovereignty.
I think you are confusing the rich with the wealthy. The wealthy own fortune 500 companies and set the agenda of our government. Taxing the "rich" throws more obstacles in the way of their closest competition.
You're point on the decrease in the value of college degrees is a good one. But you have to ask yourself questions. Who stressed the issue of increasing college enrollment? Who removed technical training from high schools across America? Who owns the media outlets that propagated the issues? Who buys the politicians that pass these legislation?
The wealthy and ultra wealthy have always waged a war against upper middle class and poor Americans to keep their strangle hold on the wealth of this country. By targeting people who earn 250k to 1m your mostly targeting the people who worked to earn their money and became successful which is not fair.
