Congress clears historic health care bill...

[deuce king]

didn't republicans say that in 08?

Yeah they did, and just like how they're doing now, they are crying and complaining as usual.

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by Essential1

Burns1923 wrote:

---

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.

  

No prob.  November 2 it is.

Republicans would have picked up seats in the house & senate no matter what.. It is called history.. Anytime a party has a huge majority in the Congress they lose seats....

But it was more of a you have just made the dumbest statement ever..


You really have no grasp of this country at all.

Nah, you just have a Progressive worldview which is, by nature, un-American.

And Nov. 2 will be more than precedent.  House of Reps for sure, and perhaps Senate, going GOP.

 

[throwedindagame]

JustScoreda100 wrote:

---

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by CParkFresh

Originally Posted by cguy610

Burns1923 wrote:

---

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.

This dude is bonkers.

  

 Slams like that don't bother me. 

I don't know if it's lack of brain power or intellectual laziness, but your attitude towards all this only reveals your lack of thinking and knowledge about the philosophies of our current president and democrat congress.

If you really believe this is about health care, you deserve to be scammed.


  

I dont see how it was a "bonkers" statement at all. 9/11 was a direct attack on our way of life while the federal mandates included in the health care bill is a direct assault to the American constitution. I don't think that's too hard to grasp.

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

if someone made 500k how much more in taxes do they have to pay because of this bill? serious question....

Currently...

If your AGI is $500,000 that is after all deductions... your tax bill would be around $140,000 so about 28%.

If your AGI is $50,000 your tax bill is $4,000 so about 8%

After this bill that $500,000 would be......







the SAME... well at least until 2013.  Medicare tax will increase by .9% for taxpayers making over $250,000. So if you made $500,000, your medicare tax will increase by $2,250 (OH WOW

)  Also your investment income will rise by 3.8% (Capital gains, dividends, interest, royalties, rents and other unearned income.)

HovKid considering you say that you're making median household income, you probably don't have much in investment income right?  So no need to cry over the investment income tax rise, correct?  So really are you crying over a 0.9% increase in medicare?  Are you serious?

Read the facts on the bill... a ton of the provisions go into effect retroactively over the next 10 years

[h6]2010[/h6]
Coverage

• Subsidies begin for small businesses to provide coverage to employees.
• Insurance companies barred from denying coverage to children with pre-existing illness.
• Children permitted to stay on their parents' insurance policies until their 26th birthday.

[h6]2011[/h6]
Coverage

• Set up long-term care program under which people pay premiums into system for at least five years and become eligible for support payments if they need assistance in daily living.

Taxes and fees

• Drug makers face annual fee of $2.5 billion (rises in subsequent years).

[h6]2013[/h6]
Taxes and fees

• New Medicare taxes on individuals earning more than $200,000 a year and couples filing jointly earning more than $250,000 a year.
• Tax on wages rises to 2.35% from 1.45%.
• New 3.8% tax on unearned income such as dividends and interest.
• Excise tax of 2.9% imposed on sale of medical devices.

Cost control

• Medicare pilot program begins to test bundled payments for care, in a bid to pay for quality rather than quantity of services.

[h6]2014[/h6]
Coverage

• Create exchanges where people without employer coverage, as well as small businesses, can shop for health coverage. Insurance companies barred from denying coverage to anyone with pre-existing illness.
• Requirement begins for most people to have health insurance. Subsidies begin for lower and middle-income people. People at 133% of federal poverty level pay maximum of 3% of income for coverage. People at 400% of poverty level pay up to 9.5% of income. (Poverty level currently is about $22,000 for a family of four.)
• Medicaid, the federal-state program for the poor, expands to all Americans with income up to 133% of federal poverty level.
• Subsidies for small businesses to provide coverage increase. Businesses with 10 or fewer employees and average annual wages of less than $25,000 receive tax credit of up to 50% of employer's contribution. Tax credits phase out for larger businesses.

Taxes and fees

• Employers with more than 50 employees that don't provide affordable coverage must pay a fine if employees receive tax credits to buy insurance. Fine is up to $3,000 per employee, excluding first 30 employees.
• Insurance industry must pay annual fee of $8 billion (rises in subsequent years).

Cost control

• Independent Medicare board must begin to submit recommendations to curb Medicare spending, if costs are rising faster than inflation.

[h6]2016[/h6]
Taxes and fees

• Penalty for those who don't carry coverage rises to 2.5% of taxable income or $695, whichever is greater.

[h6]2017[/h6]
Coverage

• Businesses with more than 100 employees can buy coverage on insurance exchanges, if state permits it.

[h6]2018[/h6]
Taxes and fees

• Excise tax of 40% imposed on health plans valued at more than $10,200 for individual coverage and $27,500 for family coverage.

Wow

You pass off that 3.8% rise in capital gains taxes as if its insignificant. That tax alone will cost a lot of people money. It even hits small time traders like me who play around with penny stocks. Now I have to increase the risks I take in order to offset this tax increase while I'm already getting killed by brokerage fees.

It will also have an effect on the stock market because people may choose other investment vehicles to get the returns they're used to with out increasing their risks. The stock market is already fragile as is and may be up for correction. I wouldn't be surprised if this tax speeds up that correction.



What I bolded is the truth.

SunDoobie who started talking about capital gains tax has NO IDEA what he's talking about. Do you even have a stock portfolio?

  

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by letsgetit22

Originally Posted by Burns1923


Feel free to continue your willful ignorance.

I love people's smug responses.  The multiple emoticons... all of it. 

Typical left wing tactic - demonize and frame your opponent.

Enjoy the +*% kicking this year and in '12.

if you're a republican then you have some nerves.

  

Enjoy the +*% kicking this year and in '12.

 

didn't republicans say that in 08?


   First, one man's demonizing and framing is another man's raising legitimate concerns and reading the handwriting on the wall.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

Second, um... no.  McCain, while I would've preferred him over Obama, was an awful candidate who ran an awful campaign.  %*$$, the guy's not really even a Republican.

 

[nostrandave68]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by AirUpHere23

Again...I reiterate...when 9-11 occurred everyone believed in American patriotism and the strength and unity of our nation....as soon as a health care reform plan gets mentioned to help American citizens.....those ideals are nowhere to be found...ironic isn't it?

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.

quite possibly the dumbest metaphor I've ever seen used on NT.

 

[ag 47]

Originally Posted by TeeOh Owens

Originally Posted by SIRIUS LEE HANDSOME

It's basically one side going against the other for no other reason than one side going against the other. If it was the Republicans initially pushing this bill you'd have the Democrats taking every stance possible against it just like the Republicans are doing now.

QFT. Thats what politics is nowadays and its a damn shame.

Politics is the #1 sport in America.

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by NostrandAve68

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by AirUpHere23

Again...I reiterate...when 9-11 occurred everyone believed in American patriotism and the strength and unity of our nation....as soon as a health care reform plan gets mentioned to help American citizens.....those ideals are nowhere to be found...ironic isn't it?

But make no mistake - both 9/11 and this health care bill are attacks on this country with the intent to destroy it.

quite possibly the dumbest metaphor I've ever seen used on NT.

Yes! The hits keep coming!

Go on, you're doing good!

But before you do, you might consider this:

"Obama learned his lesson well. I am proud to see that my father's model for organizing is being applied successfully beyond local community organizing to affect the Democratic campaign in 2008. It is a fine tribute to Saul Alinsky as we approach his 100th birthday." --  L. David Alinsky, son of Marxist Saul D. Alinsky

But you don't think Obama wants to overwhelm the system to remake it?  Now, keep in mind we're talking about the same Obama who taught Alinsky as community organizer in Chicago.

No? Nothing?

D'ah well.

 

[justscoreda100]

Originally Posted by Diego

Originally Posted by JustScoreda100

 
 

Originally Posted by Diego

Originally Posted by SdotCAR619

People in this thread talk about how not everyone can do it, I feel like anyone can. You look at the people who do make it big from "ghettos" or low-income communities and these are the people who focus on school, don't go out to parties and just give school 110%, so don't say not everyone can do it. Anyone can do anything with hard work.

Those single mothers work hard, yeah, but you can also say they had the choice to have a kid. I know it sounds ignorant, but its the truth. I applaud those women who work hard to try to give their children opportunities they weren't able to have.

Taxing the rich more for the "better" of America? The hell, these guys worked hard to better their own lives! They needa just set a certain percent that each American gets deducted from their checks!

 People with power (money) like to talk out the $%%.
Your false "If I could do it so can you" speech does not amuse me.

They know damn well that in order for them to stay with the power it is to their benefit that not everyone does "it". Rich people need to have a lower class in this country in order to keep the power. As more and more people join their salary bracket, their power gets divided even further.

Remember when the the drop out rates in the hood were high as hell, how far a high school diploma could get you?
Now that everyone is graduating high school and college education is stressed, suddenly high school diplomas mean nothing. As more and more people graduate college, those college degrees are treated like a high school diploma.

These false motivational speeches from these people with money mean absolutely nothing to me cause theyre the first ones crying when they have to help someone other than themselves.

I think you are confusing the rich with the wealthy. The wealthy own fortune 500 companies and set the agenda of our government. Taxing the "rich" throws more obstacles in the way of their closest competition.

You're point on the decrease in the value of college degrees is a good one. But you have to ask yourself questions. Who stressed the issue of increasing college enrollment? Who removed technical training from high schools across America? Who owns the media outlets that propagated the issues? Who buys the politicians that pass these legislation?

The wealthy and ultra wealthy have always waged a war against upper middle class and poor Americans to keep their strangle hold on the wealth of this country. By targeting people who earn 250k to 1m your mostly targeting the people who worked to earn their money and became successful which is not fair.

Statements like this have been made repeatedly through this thread and wether it was done purposely or not it implies that everyone who is not succesful did not work hard.
The bottom line is that not everyone can be a lawyer, not everyone can be a doctor, hell Ill even go as far as saying not everyone can make 6 figures.
Teachers might break 6 figures after 20 years of service, does that mean they dont work hard because theyre not as succesful as a doctor or a lawyer or any other hard working person who makes six figures?

The point is that in order for this country to continue running on these capitalistic ideals that most of us like, we NEED to have some people at the top and others at the bottom. Even if youre not at the top and youre "middle class" as HovKid likes to call himself, you still need those people below you because otherwise what are you in the middle of?

Succesful people like being called succesful, they like the fact that they can drive cars that most of America cant afford, they enjoy the designer clothes, they enjoy the nice houses, the minute that everyone can afford these things....well theyre njust not as exclusive and fancy anymore.

   

  

Your right. Capitalism requires that most people are not able to live lavish lifestyles. However, unlike many places in the world America provides you with the outlet to because successful and be able to afford the nicer things in life. Everyone doesn't have the same perception of life and do not require fancy things and are content with their lifestyles. That's cool as well.

All I'm sayin is don't get mad at the next man for taking the route that guaranteed an expensive lifestyle. Any one could have taken that route but everyone is different and some people made mistakes to the point of where they couldn't go down that route and others did not want to put in the work necessary to go down that route.

Life isn't easy and no matter how much income you make your going to have to work hard in most situations. If your the type of person who wants to live a lavish lifestyle then excel in school and study medicine,engineering, finance, etc. Or think of a unique way to make money. But if you don't do whats necessary to go down that route, that's fine. Live your life the way you want to. But don't envy the people who did what was necessary to have a easier chance at a better life.

Originally Posted by CParkFresh

Originally Posted by JustScoreda100

Not firing shots at you, but you should read up on the constitution.

Medicare and SS being taken out of your check is a tax which the federal government has the authority to do.

The constitution clearly outlines the authority of the federal government and transfers all other powers which were not given to the federal government to the states.

So, bills like these that seek to expand the role of the government beyond its initial scope are attacks on the constitution as well as attacks on state sovereignty.

Seriously... Are you implying that social security and medicare are within the framework of the Constitution and Health Care is not?

Thats a serious question... No Shots.

I actually have no problem with the philosophy of medicare/SS and would have no problems if the program originated on the state level. My problem with it is that its a federal program. I do not think that it is within the role of the federal government to provide Medicare, Social Security, or mandate the purchase of health insurance.

 

[throwedindagame]

Originally Posted by kicksNbeats

Most americans are too unreliable and dumb for health care reform.  Maybe when people stop having kids in high school/early college, doing meth/cocaine, taking out 50k+ in student loans for a philosophy degree or just being downright lazy and reliant on others is when we'll see real progress in this nation.  Just because it works in other countries doesn't mean it will work here because you need to look at the people and societies as a whole in those nations that have universal healthcare.  They are nowhere near as messed up as we are socially and economically.

I've always wanted to say this and so have many other Americans, but it's not politcally correct. Kudos

It's not really the system, it's the people. We need a paradigm shift in this country.

 

[cparkfresh]

Originally Posted by Burns1923


Helping someone is one thing. The government taxing you to buy someone else's health coverage is something else altogether.

Do you think we should repeal Medicare? Because that is EXACTLY what you are describing.

There are plenty of goods and services that the government provides as a result of TAXATION that do not directly benifit me. Why the outrage over HEALTHCARE? On top of that you do realize that there is a cost associated with providing HEALTHCARE to the UNINSURED dont you? You also do realize that there a plenty of hard working Americans without health insurance because it is not accessible to everybody.

 

[letsgetit22]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by letsgetit22

Originally Posted by Burns1923


Feel free to continue your willful ignorance.

I love people's smug responses.  The multiple emoticons... all of it. 

Typical left wing tactic - demonize and frame your opponent.

Enjoy the +*% kicking this year and in '12.

if you're a republican then you have some nerves.

  

Enjoy the +*% kicking this year and in '12.

 

didn't republicans say that in 08?

   First, one man's demonizing and framing is another man's raising legitimate concerns and reading the handwriting on the wall.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

Second, um... no.  McCain, while I would've preferred him over Obama, was an awful candidate who ran an awful campaign.  %*$$, the guy's not really even a Republican.
Please tell me you don't believe that propaganda. 

 @ preferring McCain over anyone.

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by letsgetit22

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by letsgetit22

Originally Posted by Burns1923


Feel free to continue your willful ignorance.

I love people's smug responses.  The multiple emoticons... all of it. 

Typical left wing tactic - demonize and frame your opponent.

Enjoy the +*% kicking this year and in '12.

if you're a republican then you have some nerves.

  

Enjoy the +*% kicking this year and in '12.

 

didn't republicans say that in 08?

   First, one man's demonizing and framing is another man's raising legitimate concerns and reading the handwriting on the wall.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

Second, um... no.  McCain, while I would've preferred him over Obama, was an awful candidate who ran an awful campaign.  %*$$, the guy's not really even a Republican.

Please tell me you don't believe that propaganda. 

 @ preferring McCain over anyone.



I take it you voted for Obama. And you talk about propaganda?

Yikes.

 

[rillo561]

Great news, so when does Rush leave the country?

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by CParkFresh

Originally Posted by Burns1923


Helping someone is one thing. The government taxing you to buy someone else's health coverage is something else altogether.

Do you think we should repeal Medicare? Because that is EXACTLY what you are describing.

"Obama’s health care proposal is, in effect, the repeal of the Medicare program as we know it. The elderly will go from being the group with the most access to free medical care to the one with the least access. Indeed, the principal impact of the Obama health care program will be to reduce sharply the medical services the elderly can use. No longer will their every medical need be met, their every medication prescribed, their every need to improve their quality of life answered." - +$$# Morris, former advisor to President Bill Clinton

  

 

[bostonthreeparty]

If they people passing this bill can Cherry-pick from PRIVATE HEALTH CARE PLANS, that are the best in the country. do people expect them to follow their constituents and be on this plan also?
Please

people should not be responsible for other peoples Medical bills. Simple as that.

i can almost guarantee that a majority of people on NT are not in the top 5% of yearly salary in the US. to pay 57% of the National taxes.
So most just blow it off by saying, "They make this much, how much will X amount affect them," Money is still money, no matter how much they have.
Just potray people who have been successful in free market Capitalism as greedy, snobby people who hold onto their money as long as possible.

 

[cparkfresh]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

CParkFresh wrote:

---

Burns1923 wrote:

---

Helping someone is one thing. The government taxing you to buy someone else's health coverage is something else altogether.

Do you think we should repeal Medicare? Because that is EXACTLY what you are describing.

"Obama’s health care proposal is, in effect, the repeal of the Medicare program as we know it. The elderly will go from being the group with the most access to free medical care to the one with the least access. Indeed, the principal impact of the Obama health care program will be to reduce sharply the medical services the elderly can use. No longer will their every medical need be met, their every medication prescribed, their every need to improve their quality of life answered." - *%!+ Morris, former advisor to President Bill Clinton

  


I asked if YOU thought we should repeal medicare. Instead you posted a qoute that contradicts your whole argument. Which way do you want to have it?

 

[justscoreda100]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Wow

You pass off that 3.8% rise in capital gains taxes as if its insignificant. That tax alone will cost a lot of people money. It even hits small time traders like me who play around with penny stocks. Now I have to increase the risks I take in order to offset this tax increase while I'm already getting killed by brokerage fees.

It will also have an effect on the stock market because people may choose other investment vehicles to get the returns they're used to with out increasing their risks. The stock market is already fragile as is and may be up for correction. I wouldn't be surprised if this tax speeds up that correction.

Sure it's significant for RICH folks considering this is UNEARNED income that they really need to feed their children.  

So you're saying this will cost a lot of people money?  So if I am a millionaire and I have $500,000 sitting in a mutual fund and it made $10,000 in dividends, am I going to worry about $380 in additional tax?  Because OH GEE $380 more in taxes is really going to force me to give up my way of life. 

Give me a break.




So money earned from investments is unearned income now? Wow you give me a break.

You obviously have no idea what its like to invest money in the stock market. Do you even have a stock portfolio? It takes me hours to research stocks the stocks I put my money into. I earned every *+%$%!* cent I made from my investments. You really have to stop thinking about specific situations that don't make up majority of the situation in reality.

What about the pension funds and municipal funds that will have to pay this tax? Will you still think its insignificant when your the handlers of your 401k start to pass the cost of this tax onto you in the form higher fees? Or the increase in back fees that you might get because of how it will hit their bottom line? I'm not trying to be apologetic towards the banks either.

You're all gung ho for higher taxes when they're not targeting you, but your a fool if you think those bastardy "rich" people who conspire against you on the daily aren't going to just pass the cost of these taxes on regular every day citizens like you. 

 

[letsgetit22]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

I take it you voted for Obama. And you talk about propaganda?

Yikes.

Yeah, cause he's not doing or attempting to do what he promised during his campaign...However, I digress. 

 

[bostonthreeparty]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by AirUpHere23

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by AirUpHere23

Originally Posted by Burns1923

AirUpHere23 wrote:

The health care bill is a government mandate that people purchase a good, with no respect to freedom or choice.
 It is not the federal government's job to mandate that people "help" other people

It seems your definition of unity is that those "who have" less deserve (are entitled to) a handout from those who "have more".

You find in the Constitution or Bill of Rights where it says Americans are required by government to pay a specific portion of their income so that other people can have health coverage for free.

 federal government telling citizens to surrender more of their income so that others can get health coverage for free.  
Helping someone is one thing.  The government taxing you to buy someone else's health coverage is something else altogether.

Income redistribution isn't compassion. It's socialism.

I've yet to hear one person other than myself raise the question: If these 32 million get access to health coverage on someone else's dime, why would they ever have a reason to buy it themselves? 

It's a form of welfare.  But we can't have any talk in here about personal responsibility or personal decisions.  We're just supposed to hand over our money.
  

I am glad that i am not the only person who thinks this here
props to you 

 

[shaunhillftw49]

Any non-childish posts in the past 10 pages worth reading?

 

[diego]

Originally Posted by JustScoreda100

Originally Posted by Diego

Originally Posted by JustScoreda100

 
 

Originally Posted by Diego

Originally Posted by SdotCAR619

People in this thread talk about how not everyone can do it, I feel like anyone can. You look at the people who do make it big from "ghettos" or low-income communities and these are the people who focus on school, don't go out to parties and just give school 110%, so don't say not everyone can do it. Anyone can do anything with hard work.

Those single mothers work hard, yeah, but you can also say they had the choice to have a kid. I know it sounds ignorant, but its the truth. I applaud those women who work hard to try to give their children opportunities they weren't able to have.

Taxing the rich more for the "better" of America? The hell, these guys worked hard to better their own lives! They needa just set a certain percent that each American gets deducted from their checks!

 People with power (money) like to talk out the $%%.
Your false "If I could do it so can you" speech does not amuse me.

They know damn well that in order for them to stay with the power it is to their benefit that not everyone does "it". Rich people need to have a lower class in this country in order to keep the power. As more and more people join their salary bracket, their power gets divided even further.

Remember when the the drop out rates in the hood were high as hell, how far a high school diploma could get you?
Now that everyone is graduating high school and college education is stressed, suddenly high school diplomas mean nothing. As more and more people graduate college, those college degrees are treated like a high school diploma.

These false motivational speeches from these people with money mean absolutely nothing to me cause theyre the first ones crying when they have to help someone other than themselves.

I think you are confusing the rich with the wealthy. The wealthy own fortune 500 companies and set the agenda of our government. Taxing the "rich" throws more obstacles in the way of their closest competition.

You're point on the decrease in the value of college degrees is a good one. But you have to ask yourself questions. Who stressed the issue of increasing college enrollment? Who removed technical training from high schools across America? Who owns the media outlets that propagated the issues? Who buys the politicians that pass these legislation?

The wealthy and ultra wealthy have always waged a war against upper middle class and poor Americans to keep their strangle hold on the wealth of this country. By targeting people who earn 250k to 1m your mostly targeting the people who worked to earn their money and became successful which is not fair.

Statements like this have been made repeatedly through this thread and wether it was done purposely or not it implies that everyone who is not succesful did not work hard.
The bottom line is that not everyone can be a lawyer, not everyone can be a doctor, hell Ill even go as far as saying not everyone can make 6 figures.
Teachers might break 6 figures after 20 years of service, does that mean they dont work hard because theyre not as succesful as a doctor or a lawyer or any other hard working person who makes six figures?

The point is that in order for this country to continue running on these capitalistic ideals that most of us like, we NEED to have some people at the top and others at the bottom. Even if youre not at the top and youre "middle class" as HovKid likes to call himself, you still need those people below you because otherwise what are you in the middle of?

Succesful people like being called succesful, they like the fact that they can drive cars that most of America cant afford, they enjoy the designer clothes, they enjoy the nice houses, the minute that everyone can afford these things....well theyre njust not as exclusive and fancy anymore.

   

  

Your right. Capitalism requires that most people are not able to live lavish lifestyles. However, unlike many places in the world America provides you with the outlet to because successful and be able to afford the nicer things in life. Everyone doesn't have the same perception of life and do not require fancy things and are content with their lifestyles. That's cool as well.

All I'm sayin is don't get mad at the next man for taking the route that guaranteed an expensive lifestyle. Any one could have taken that route but everyone is different and some people made mistakes to the point of where they couldn't go down that route and others did not want to put in the work necessary to go down that route.

Life isn't easy and no matter how much income you make your going to have to work hard in most situations. If your the type of person who wants to live a lavish lifestyle then excel in school and study medicine,engineering, finance, etc. Or think of a unique way to make money. But if you don't do whats necessary to go down that route, that's fine. Live your life the way you want to. But don't envy the people who did what was necessary to have a easier chance at a better life.

You must be on something serious if you believe there is a guaranteed route to wealth. Some people catch a few breaks along the way. Other take risks and it pays off for them while others take risks and end up filing for bankruptcy.You and many others who think like you seem to have that same flawed mentality that anyone who is not rich or succesful must be lazy with a feeling of entitlement. Thats just flat out false.

NO, not anyone could have taken the route to success. There could be 500 open spaces available in a medical school. 3000 qualified people from all over the world apply for those 500 spaces. Are the 2500 people who didnt make it now lazy bums who couldnt cut it in the medical field? Based on your logic, you just might think some wild %+$% like this.

And where are you getting this "envy" stuff from. Its not a matter of being envious of anything. I will never get mad at the next man for doing what they had to do to be succesful. No matter how succesful they are they should never turn their back on their fellow man.

  

 

[cparkfresh]

Originally Posted by BostonThreeParty

If they people passing this bill can Cherry-pick from PRIVATE HEALTH CARE PLANS, that are the best in the country. do people expect them to follow their constituents and be on this plan also?
Please

You do realize that there is no public plan dont you? You do realize that people will get subsidies for PRIVATE HEALTH CARE PLANS?

 

[bostonthreeparty]

Originally Posted by ShaunHillFTW49

Any non-childish posts in the past 10 pages worth reading?

i suppose people saying "Oh, no one missed country club payment" constitutes as Childish. 
So, to answer your question, nothing new

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by CParkFresh

Originally Posted by Burns1923

CParkFresh wrote:

---

Burns1923 wrote:

---

Helping someone is one thing. The government taxing you to buy someone else's health coverage is something else altogether.

Do you think we should repeal Medicare? Because that is EXACTLY what you are describing.

"Obama’s health care proposal is, in effect, the repeal of the Medicare program as we know it. The elderly will go from being the group with the most access to free medical care to the one with the least access. Indeed, the principal impact of the Obama health care program will be to reduce sharply the medical services the elderly can use. No longer will their every medical need be met, their every medication prescribed, their every need to improve their quality of life answered." - *%!+ Morris, former advisor to President Bill Clinton

  


I asked if YOU thought we should repeal medicare. Instead you posted a qoute that contradicts your whole argument. Which way do you want to have it?

Medicare and Medicaid should both be repealed.  The Fed Reserve should be dissolved as well.

Obama's going to demolish Medicare but not in the ways nor for the reasons I would.  He's doing it to make way for his new, awful building (health care bill).  It needs to be repealed on principle and not replaced with an even worse situation.

  

 

[yungchris504]

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