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Congress clears historic health care bill...
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by superantigen,
- Start date
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Originally Posted by Essential1
No prob. November 2 it is.
Republicans would have picked up seats in the house & senate no matter what.. It is called history.. Anytime a party has a huge majority in the Congress they lose seats....
But it was more of a you have just made the dumbest statement ever..
You really have no grasp of this country at all.
Nah, you just have a Progressive worldview which is, by nature, un-American.
And Nov. 2 will be more than precedent. House of Reps for sure, and perhaps Senate, going GOP.
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JustScoreda100 wrote:
Originally Posted by Burns1923
Originally Posted by CParkFresh
This dude is bonkers.
Slams like that don't bother me.
I don't know if it's lack of brain power or intellectual laziness, but your attitude towards all this only reveals your lack of thinking and knowledge about the philosophies of our current president and democrat congress.
If you really believe this is about health care, you deserve to be scammed.
I dont see how it was a "bonkers" statement at all. 9/11 was a direct attack on our way of life while the federal mandates included in the health care bill is a direct assault to the American constitution. I don't think that's too hard to grasp.
Currently...
If your AGI is $500,000 that is after all deductions... your tax bill would be around $140,000 so about 28%.
If your AGI is $50,000 your tax bill is $4,000 so about 8%
After this bill that $500,000 would be......
the SAME... well at least until 2013. Medicare tax will increase by .9% for taxpayers making over $250,000. So if you made $500,000, your medicare tax will increase by $2,250 (OH WOW
) Also your investment income will rise by 3.8% (Capital gains, dividends, interest, royalties, rents and other unearned income.)
HovKid considering you say that you're making median household income, you probably don't have much in investment income right? So no need to cry over the investment income tax rise, correct? So really are you crying over a 0.9% increase in medicare? Are you serious?
Read the facts on the bill... a ton of the provisions go into effect retroactively over the next 10 years
[h6]2010[/h6]
Coverage
[h6]2011[/h6]
- Subsidies begin for small businesses to provide coverage to employees.
- Insurance companies barred from denying coverage to children with pre-existing illness.
- Children permitted to stay on their parents' insurance policies until their 26th birthday.
Coverage
Taxes and fees
- Set up long-term care program under which people pay premiums into system for at least five years and become eligible for support payments if they need assistance in daily living.
[h6]2013[/h6]
- Drug makers face annual fee of $2.5 billion (rises in subsequent years).
Taxes and fees
Cost control
- New Medicare taxes on individuals earning more than $200,000 a year and couples filing jointly earning more than $250,000 a year.
- Tax on wages rises to 2.35% from 1.45%.
- New 3.8% tax on unearned income such as dividends and interest.
- Excise tax of 2.9% imposed on sale of medical devices.
[h6]2014[/h6]
- Medicare pilot program begins to test bundled payments for care, in a bid to pay for quality rather than quantity of services.
Coverage
Taxes and fees
- Create exchanges where people without employer coverage, as well as small businesses, can shop for health coverage. Insurance companies barred from denying coverage to anyone with pre-existing illness.
- Requirement begins for most people to have health insurance. Subsidies begin for lower and middle-income people. People at 133% of federal poverty level pay maximum of 3% of income for coverage. People at 400% of poverty level pay up to 9.5% of income. (Poverty level currently is about $22,000 for a family of four.)
- Medicaid, the federal-state program for the poor, expands to all Americans with income up to 133% of federal poverty level.
- Subsidies for small businesses to provide coverage increase. Businesses with 10 or fewer employees and average annual wages of less than $25,000 receive tax credit of up to 50% of employer's contribution. Tax credits phase out for larger businesses.
Cost control
- Employers with more than 50 employees that don't provide affordable coverage must pay a fine if employees receive tax credits to buy insurance. Fine is up to $3,000 per employee, excluding first 30 employees.
- Insurance industry must pay annual fee of $8 billion (rises in subsequent years).
[h6]2016[/h6]
- Independent Medicare board must begin to submit recommendations to curb Medicare spending, if costs are rising faster than inflation.
Taxes and fees
[h6]2017[/h6]
- Penalty for those who don't carry coverage rises to 2.5% of taxable income or $695, whichever is greater.
Coverage
[h6]2018[/h6]
- Businesses with more than 100 employees can buy coverage on insurance exchanges, if state permits it.
Taxes and fees
- Excise tax of 40% imposed on health plans valued at more than $10,200 for individual coverage and $27,500 for family coverage.
Wow
You pass off that 3.8% rise in capital gains taxes as if its insignificant. That tax alone will cost a lot of people money. It even hits small time traders like me who play around with penny stocks. Now I have to increase the risks I take in order to offset this tax increase while I'm already getting killed by brokerage fees.
It will also have an effect on the stock market because people may choose other investment vehicles to get the returns they're used to with out increasing their risks. The stock market is already fragile as is and may be up for correction. I wouldn't be surprised if this tax speeds up that correction.
What I bolded is the truth.
SunDoobie who started talking about capital gains tax has NO IDEA what he's talking about. Do you even have a stock portfolio?
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Originally Posted by letsgetit22
if you're a republican then you have some nerves.
First, one man's demonizing and framing is another man's raising legitimate concerns and reading the handwriting on the wall.
Agree to disagree, I guess.
Second, um... no. McCain, while I would've preferred him over Obama, was an awful candidate who ran an awful campaign. %*$$, the guy's not really even a Republican.
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quite possibly the dumbest metaphor I've ever seen used on NT.
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Politics is the #1 sport in America.
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Yes! The hits keep coming!
Go on, you're doing good!
But before you do, you might consider this:
"Obama learned his lesson well. I am proud to see that my father's model for organizing is being applied successfully beyond local community organizing to affect the Democratic campaign in 2008. It is a fine tribute to Saul Alinsky as we approach his 100th birthday." -- L. David Alinsky, son of Marxist Saul D. Alinsky
But you don't think Obama wants to overwhelm the system to remake it? Now, keep in mind we're talking about the same Obama who taught Alinsky as community organizer in Chicago.
No? Nothing?
D'ah well.
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Your right. Capitalism requires that most people are not able to live lavish lifestyles. However, unlike many places in the world America provides you with the outlet to because successful and be able to afford the nicer things in life. Everyone doesn't have the same perception of life and do not require fancy things and are content with their lifestyles. That's cool as well.
All I'm sayin is don't get mad at the next man for taking the route that guaranteed an expensive lifestyle. Any one could have taken that route but everyone is different and some people made mistakes to the point of where they couldn't go down that route and others did not want to put in the work necessary to go down that route.
Life isn't easy and no matter how much income you make your going to have to work hard in most situations. If your the type of person who wants to live a lavish lifestyle then excel in school and study medicine,engineering, finance, etc. Or think of a unique way to make money. But if you don't do whats necessary to go down that route, that's fine. Live your life the way you want to. But don't envy the people who did what was necessary to have a easier chance at a better life.
I actually have no problem with the philosophy of medicare/SS and would have no problems if the program originated on the state level. My problem with it is that its a federal program. I do not think that it is within the role of the federal government to provide Medicare, Social Security, or mandate the purchase of health insurance.Originally Posted by CParkFresh
Seriously... Are you implying that social security and medicare are within the framework of the Constitution and Health Care is not?Thats a serious question... No Shots.
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I've always wanted to say this and so have many other Americans, but it's not politcally correct. Kudos
It's not really the system, it's the people. We need a paradigm shift in this country.
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Do you think we should repeal Medicare? Because that is EXACTLY what you are describing.
There are plenty of goods and services that the government provides as a result of TAXATION that do not directly benifit me. Why the outrage over HEALTHCARE? On top of that you do realize that there is a cost associated with providing HEALTHCARE to the UNINSURED dont you? You also do realize that there a plenty of hard working Americans without health insurance because it is not accessible to everybody.
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Originally Posted by Burns1923
Originally Posted by letsgetit22
if you're a republican then you have some nerves.
didn't republicans say that in 08?
First, one man's demonizing and framing is another man's raising legitimate concerns and reading the handwriting on the wall.
Agree to disagree, I guess.
Second, um... no. McCain, while I would've preferred him over Obama, was an awful candidate who ran an awful campaign. %*$$, the guy's not really even a Republican.
Please tell me you don't believe that propaganda.
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Please tell me you don't believe that propaganda.Originally Posted by letsgetit22
Originally Posted by Burns1923
Originally Posted by letsgetit22
if you're a republican then you have some nerves.
didn't republicans say that in 08?
First, one man's demonizing and framing is another man's raising legitimate concerns and reading the handwriting on the wall.
Agree to disagree, I guess.
Second, um... no. McCain, while I would've preferred him over Obama, was an awful candidate who ran an awful campaign. %*$$, the guy's not really even a Republican.
I take it you voted for Obama. And you talk about propaganda?
Yikes.
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Great news, so when does Rush leave the country?
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"Obama’s health care proposal is, in effect, the repeal of the Medicare program as we know it. The elderly will go from being the group with the most access to free medical care to the one with the least access. Indeed, the principal impact of the Obama health care program will be to reduce sharply the medical services the elderly can use. No longer will their every medical need be met, their every medication prescribed, their every need to improve their quality of life answered." - +$$# Morris, former advisor to President Bill Clinton
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If they people passing this bill can Cherry-pick from PRIVATE HEALTH CARE PLANS, that are the best in the country. do people expect them to follow their constituents and be on this plan also?
Please
people should not be responsible for other peoples Medical bills. Simple as that.
i can almost guarantee that a majority of people on NT are not in the top 5% of yearly salary in the US. to pay 57% of the National taxes.
So most just blow it off by saying, "They make this much, how much will X amount affect them," Money is still money, no matter how much they have.
Just potray people who have been successful in free market Capitalism as greedy, snobby people who hold onto their money as long as possible.
Please
people should not be responsible for other peoples Medical bills. Simple as that.
i can almost guarantee that a majority of people on NT are not in the top 5% of yearly salary in the US. to pay 57% of the National taxes.
So most just blow it off by saying, "They make this much, how much will X amount affect them," Money is still money, no matter how much they have.
Just potray people who have been successful in free market Capitalism as greedy, snobby people who hold onto their money as long as possible.
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Do you think we should repeal Medicare? Because that is EXACTLY what you are describing.
"Obama’s health care proposal is, in effect, the repeal of the Medicare program as we know it. The elderly will go from being the group with the most access to free medical care to the one with the least access. Indeed, the principal impact of the Obama health care program will be to reduce sharply the medical services the elderly can use. No longer will their every medical need be met, their every medication prescribed, their every need to improve their quality of life answered." - *%!+ Morris, former advisor to President Bill Clinton
I asked if YOU thought we should repeal medicare. Instead you posted a qoute that contradicts your whole argument. Which way do you want to have it?
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Sure it's significant for RICH folks considering this is UNEARNED income that they really need to feed their children.Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE
Wow
You pass off that 3.8% rise in capital gains taxes as if its insignificant. That tax alone will cost a lot of people money. It even hits small time traders like me who play around with penny stocks. Now I have to increase the risks I take in order to offset this tax increase while I'm already getting killed by brokerage fees.
It will also have an effect on the stock market because people may choose other investment vehicles to get the returns they're used to with out increasing their risks. The stock market is already fragile as is and may be up for correction. I wouldn't be surprised if this tax speeds up that correction.
So you're saying this will cost a lot of people money? So if I am a millionaire and I have $500,000 sitting in a mutual fund and it made $10,000 in dividends, am I going to worry about $380 in additional tax? Because OH GEE $380 more in taxes is really going to force me to give up my way of life.
Give me a break.
So money earned from investments is unearned income now? Wow you give me a break.
You obviously have no idea what its like to invest money in the stock market. Do you even have a stock portfolio? It takes me hours to research stocks the stocks I put my money into. I earned every *+%$%!* cent I made from my investments. You really have to stop thinking about specific situations that don't make up majority of the situation in reality.
What about the pension funds and municipal funds that will have to pay this tax? Will you still think its insignificant when your the handlers of your 401k start to pass the cost of this tax onto you in the form higher fees? Or the increase in back fees that you might get because of how it will hit their bottom line? I'm not trying to be apologetic towards the banks either.
You're all gung ho for higher taxes when they're not targeting you, but your a fool if you think those bastardy "rich" people who conspire against you on the daily aren't going to just pass the cost of these taxes on regular every day citizens like you.
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I take it you voted for Obama. And you talk about propaganda?
Yikes.
Yeah, cause he's not doing or attempting to do what he promised during his campaign...However, I digress.
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federal government telling citizens to surrender more of their income so that others can get health coverage for free.
Helping someone is one thing. The government taxing you to buy someone else's health coverage is something else altogether.
Income redistribution isn't compassion. It's socialism.
I've yet to hear one person other than myself raise the question: If these 32 million get access to health coverage on someone else's dime, why would they ever have a reason to buy it themselves?
It's a form of welfare. But we can't have any talk in here about personal responsibility or personal decisions. We're just supposed to hand over our money.
I am glad that i am not the only person who thinks this here
props to you
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Any non-childish posts in the past 10 pages worth reading?
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You must be on something serious if you believe there is a guaranteed route to wealth. Some people catch a few breaks along the way. Other take risks and it pays off for them while others take risks and end up filing for bankruptcy.You and many others who think like you seem to have that same flawed mentality that anyone who is not rich or succesful must be lazy with a feeling of entitlement. Thats just flat out false.
NO, not anyone could have taken the route to success. There could be 500 open spaces available in a medical school. 3000 qualified people from all over the world apply for those 500 spaces. Are the 2500 people who didnt make it now lazy bums who couldnt cut it in the medical field? Based on your logic, you just might think some wild %+$% like this.
And where are you getting this "envy" stuff from. Its not a matter of being envious of anything. I will never get mad at the next man for doing what they had to do to be succesful. No matter how succesful they are they should never turn their back on their fellow man.
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Originally Posted by BostonThreeParty
If they people passing this bill can Cherry-pick from PRIVATE HEALTH CARE PLANS, that are the best in the country. do people expect them to follow their constituents and be on this plan also?
Please
You do realize that there is no public plan dont you? You do realize that people will get subsidies for PRIVATE HEALTH CARE PLANS?
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i suppose people saying "Oh, no one missed country club payment" constitutes as Childish.
So, to answer your question, nothing new
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"Obama’s health care proposal is, in effect, the repeal of the Medicare program as we know it. The elderly will go from being the group with the most access to free medical care to the one with the least access. Indeed, the principal impact of the Obama health care program will be to reduce sharply the medical services the elderly can use. No longer will their every medical need be met, their every medication prescribed, their every need to improve their quality of life answered." - *%!+ Morris, former advisor to President Bill Clinton
I asked if YOU thought we should repeal medicare. Instead you posted a qoute that contradicts your whole argument. Which way do you want to have it?
Medicare and Medicaid should both be repealed. The Fed Reserve should be dissolved as well.
Obama's going to demolish Medicare but not in the ways nor for the reasons I would. He's doing it to make way for his new, awful building (health care bill). It needs to be repealed on principle and not replaced with an even worse situation.
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