Former Christians: What Made You a Skeptic?

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by bboy1827

I feel the way I do because I've been told my whole life that I can't be something, I can't do something. When in religion it's told that none of us can be Jesus. What if someone can be Jesus? We are missing 18 years of Jesus' life, what if during that time he was the most vial thing walking this planet, would peoples perception of him change? if not then why don't we revere reformed convicts? I understand why people believe in religion, just don't understand how they can be content with beign thought of as a second rate citizen, someone always trying but is destined to fail. Why that should be accepted.

We aren't second class. I believe God holds us above his Angels. Correct me if I'm wrong. The reason we fail at being perfect is because we aren'tperfect. You know the background as to why that is. You can't be Jesus just like you can't be Me and I can't be you. We are all unique. Jesus waspartially God so that right there separates Him from us. But even with him being who He was. He still died for us. His life was devoted to saving us so we canone day be with Him. His ultimate goal was to SAVE US. That's big to me.

Just take a second a think about what if He did? Please? Like really think about everything He went through just so Me and You can have a 2nd chance or insome cases, hundreds.

Who told you what you couldn't be?

Oh and...

"Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do"
Lets say Jesus is who He says He is. Lets just do a hypothetical. Do those words mean anything to you?

 

[bboy1827]

Jesus wasn't unique though that is the thing. The bible is telling me I can't be perfect. It's not fair, if we are all unique the question ofperfection must be turned into a subjective one. I don't think I am perfect, I think that my mom is perfect and my ex was pretty damn close to perfect, arethey "Jesus" no, but I don't think even "Jesus" is "Jesus" and God's opinion does't matter that much to me, becausehe can't set the standard of perfection for my life until he can make my life "perfect", and from what I've seen we are on our own in makinglife perfect. Don't get it twisted I'm a very faithful person, but the God I believe in has limitations, because I'd rather him not be all powerfulthan him not be all good.

 

[lesfamilia]

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Jesus wasn't unique though that is the thing. The bible is telling me I can't be perfect. It's not fair, if we are all unique the question of perfection must be turned into a subjective one. I don't think I am perfect, I think that my mom is perfect and my ex was pretty damn close to perfect, are they "Jesus" no, but I don't think even "Jesus" is "Jesus" and God's opinion does't matter that much to me, because he can't set the standard of perfection for my life until he can make my life "perfect", and from what I've seen we are on our own in making life perfect. Don't get it twisted I'm a very faithful person, but the God I believe in has limitations, because I'd rather him not be all powerful than him not be all good.

Scientific evidence has proven Jesus actually lived. He has the reputation throughout the annals of history as being the only perfect person towalk this planet. I think that is as unique as unique gets...

 

[bboy1827]

Originally Posted by LESfamilia

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Jesus wasn't unique though that is the thing. The bible is telling me I can't be perfect. It's not fair, if we are all unique the question of perfection must be turned into a subjective one. I don't think I am perfect, I think that my mom is perfect and my ex was pretty damn close to perfect, are they "Jesus" no, but I don't think even "Jesus" is "Jesus" and God's opinion does't matter that much to me, because he can't set the standard of perfection for my life until he can make my life "perfect", and from what I've seen we are on our own in making life perfect. Don't get it twisted I'm a very faithful person, but the God I believe in has limitations, because I'd rather him not be all powerful than him not be all good.

Scientific evidence has proven Jesus actually lived. He has the reputation throughout the annals of history as being the only perfect person to walk this planet. I think that is as unique as unique gets...

So does Horus, whose story is almost exactly the same and whose story came right before Jesus, also Krishna,a nd Siddartha Guatma(?) So Jesusisn't as unique as people say, there have been a lot of deities similar to Jesus, Horus and Osiris are the closest.

 

[moonmaster3]

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Originally Posted by LESfamilia

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Jesus wasn't unique though that is the thing. The bible is telling me I can't be perfect. It's not fair, if we are all unique the question of perfection must be turned into a subjective one. I don't think I am perfect, I think that my mom is perfect and my ex was pretty damn close to perfect, are they "Jesus" no, but I don't think even "Jesus" is "Jesus" and God's opinion does't matter that much to me, because he can't set the standard of perfection for my life until he can make my life "perfect", and from what I've seen we are on our own in making life perfect. Don't get it twisted I'm a very faithful person, but the God I believe in has limitations, because I'd rather him not be all powerful than him not be all good.

Scientific evidence has proven Jesus actually lived. He has the reputation throughout the annals of history as being the only perfect person to walk this planet. I think that is as unique as unique gets...

So does Horus, whose story is almost exactly the same and whose story came right before Jesus, also Krishna,a nd Siddartha Guatma(?) So Jesus isn't as unique as people say, there have been a lot of deities similar to Jesus, Horus and Osiris are the closest.

Let me guess, Zeitgeist.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Jesus wasn't unique though that is the thing. The bible is telling me I can't be perfect. It's not fair, if we are all unique the question of perfection must be turned into a subjective one. I don't think I am perfect, I think that my mom is perfect and my ex was pretty damn close to perfect, are they "Jesus" no, but I don't think even "Jesus" is "Jesus" and God's opinion does't matter that much to me, because he can't set the standard of perfection for my life until he can make my life "perfect", and from what I've seen we are on our own in making life perfect. Don't get it twisted I'm a very faithful person, but the God I believe in has limitations, because I'd rather him not be all powerful than him not be all good.

Is your Mon perfect in a sense of not sinning or never sinned? If she is then

. How was He not unique if He accomplished what billions couldn't/can't?You can do things I can't. Your unique in your own way. How can't God set the standard? No offense but you sound like a kid who didn't get his way

. Perfect is not what we are here for man. God knows it and we do too.

Trust me! I see what your doing and You will NEVER win that battle. Stop now and rethink things. Please.

We can't be perfect. We are in a imperfect world. We come from sin. Not going to happen bro. Plain and simple.

Hmmm. I think someone else can answer this better than I can. But I think the basics of God and the bible explain the waythings are.

So does Horus, whose story is almost exactly the same and whose story came right before Jesus, also Krishna,a nd Siddartha Guatma(?) So Jesus isn't as unique as people say, there have been a lot of deities similar to Jesus, Horus and Osiris are the closest.
How do you know they came before Jesus? How do you know they weren't predictions turned to fact? What if the place you got your info from isjust trying to sway believers away from Christ/God?

moonmaster whats your outright views on Zeitgeist?

6900 post

. Its been a great thread so far guys/girls. Lets keep itgoing.

 

[bboy1827]

Sorry I actually get my way all the time. I never watched Zietgiest idk why just never have. What "sin" did we come from? Being born? we do live inan imperfect world. Is not sinning the "perfection" that we should seek? Idk but that seems like a pretty lame standard seeing as though religion canchange what a sin is, and not even all religions, just one religion can change what "to sin" means. I can't believe the bible, for the samereasons the errors in it are looked over by the faithful, it was written by man. Why is it divine when it's good but man made when it is bad? I'masking questions, questions that never sufficiently get answered, even by priest(I have asked the same questions to them). It's circular reasoning, it isthat way because God said it, well why did God say it? He was not unique because people have done it before him in western lit. Why Moses over Aesop? We takethe word of John as testimony and the word of the brothers grimm as fairy tales? Because the writers were inspired? Not good enough because Aesop could be saidto have been equally inspired.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Sorry I actually get my way all the time. I never watched Zietgiest idk why just never have. What "sin" did we come from? Being born? we do live in an imperfect world. Is not sinning the "perfection" that we should seek? Idk but that seems like a pretty lame standard seeing as though religion can change what a sin is, and not even all religions, just one religion can change what "to sin" means. I can't believe the bible, for the same reasons the errors in it are looked over by the faithful, it was written by man. Why is it divine when it's good but man made when it is bad? I'm asking questions, questions that never sufficiently get answered, even by priest(I have asked the same questions to them). It's circular reasoning, it is that way because God said it, well why did God say it? He was not unique because people have done it before him in western lit. Why Moses over Aesop? We take the word of John as testimony and the word of the brothers grimm as fairy tales? Because the writers were inspired? Not good enough because Aesop could be said to have been equally inspired.

OK I see whats going on now. I'm going to sleep and I will sleep on thisand give you the best answer I can later. Be patient

. Cool?

 

[armanzaballa]

I stayed up for the past two hours reading every single post in this thread. Good thread.

I am not a Christian nor have I ever been one. But the things that are pushing me away from Christianity are:

1. My bible teacher told me that Ghandi is currently burning in hell.
2. My bible teacher told me that homosexuality is a SIN. That is ridiculous.
3. I get sick of hearing, "Well the Bible says...." you can't use that line when arguing with non-Christians, because to us, the Bible is nothingbut a book that holds several contradictory statements in it.
4. All sin is equal. NO. Murdering and raping are not the same as cussing and lusting whether it be in God's eyes or human's eyes.
5. Where do animals go? Heaven or Hell? My Christian friends tell me that they go nowhere because they do not have souls. Are my friends ignorant or is thatwhat Christianity teaches them?

I am in high school and I am in an extremely vulnerable situation regarding my spiritual life. I don't know EXACTLY what I believe in, but I do know thatit's reasons like these that push me away from Christianity and religion in general.

I have learned that documentaries such as "Jesus Camps" shouldn't affect any of us when pointing fingers at certain religions. Every religion hasit's extremists. The parents that brainwash their kids in this documentary are nothing but religious extremists. Muslim extremists lead to terrorism.Buddhist extremists try to damage Methodist churches. And Christian extremists such as the ones in "Jesus Camps" prevent their kids from reading"Harry Potter" because it involves witchcraft.

 

[lesfamilia]

Originally Posted by armanzaballa

I stayed up for the past two hours reading every single post in this thread. Good thread.

I am not a Christian nor have I ever been one. But the things that are pushing me away from Christianity are:

1. My bible teacher told me that Ghandi is currently burning in hell.
2. My bible teacher told me that homosexuality is a SIN. That is ridiculous.
3. I get sick of hearing, "Well the Bible says...." you can't use that line when arguing with non-Christians, because to us, the Bible is nothing but a book that holds several contradictory statements in it.
4. All sin is equal. NO. Murdering and raping are not the same as cussing and lusting whether it be in God's eyes or human's eyes.
5. Where do animals go? Heaven or Hell? My Christian friends tell me that they go nowhere because they do not have souls. Are my friends ignorant or is that what Christianity teaches them?

I am in high school and I am in an extremely vulnerable situation regarding my spiritual life. I don't know EXACTLY what I believe in, but I do know that it's reasons like these that push me away from Christianity and religion in general.

I have learned that documentaries such as "Jesus Camps" shouldn't affect any of us when pointing fingers at certain religions. Every religion has it's extremists. The parents that brainwash their kids in this documentary are nothing but religious extremists. Muslim extremists lead to terrorism. Buddhist extremists try to damage Methodist churches. And Christian extremists such as the ones in "Jesus Camps" prevent their kids from reading "Harry Potter" because it involves witchcraft.

To my brothers and sisters still looking for answers: I used to read the same thing about Gandhi as a youth Christian pamplets. But that's"religion" speaking to y'all, and not "that Higher Power." I know for a fact Gandhi and Mother Theresa belong in the same'heaven' somewhere in the cosmos, no matter what their "religious" affiliations. Remember, we are to be in this world, and not of this world.

 

[eye see soles]

Last night I prayed. It felt good.

Knowing that a familiar figure in my life heard me again. It actually strengthened my faith.

I know God is there and that should be enough.

 

[lesfamilia]

Originally Posted by eye see soles

Last night I prayed. It felt good.

Knowing that a familiar figure in my life heard me again. It actually strengthened my faith.

I know God is there and that should be enough.

/end thread

 

[russ tha g]

Cliff's Notes: The only good thing to come out of God/religion is the few people who behave decently because they're scared of this heaven/hellnonsense. However, many nonbelievers behave the same way (not killing, raping, etc), and many "believers" are awful people - not mention delusionalbecause they believe fairy tales more than they believe in science.

Time changed for J.C. BC>AD. Life changed when he came to earth.

Nothing changed during this time switch. BC/AD was created back when religion was used as the law of the land - before there were constitutions and things ofthat nature. BC/AD was just a way to explain prehistoric times with people. If you think about it, BC is considered pre-historic... that is, before there'srecords of anything. So people can--and obviously have--make up whatever they want and say that that's what happened in that time period. Point is,there's no proof.

It's laughable that people can follow something - anything, so blindly. If we're the only two people in the room and something of yours comes upmissing and I said I didn't take it - would you believe that? If not, then why are you so sure about this God and religion thing? There's no logicalreasoning to believe in it except for the fact that somebody scared your great-grandparents into believing it, and they kept scaring every other generationinto believing it, too. You have not seen anything that would provide even minimal proof that A GOD existed. Science can be used to prove just about everythingin existence - the only thing not 100% concretely provable is how life started BUT there is a theory that is based off of other provablescientific findings that has at least SOME foundation of fact behind it. Religion/God = not a single fact behind it.

Religion/God is intended to be nothing but a means of social control - and sometimes it works.[/b] Usually, people just use it as a basis forhating others that aren't just like them. Studies have shown that high religious beliefs have a direct correlation with lack of education and intelligence.

Personally, I think anybody who will believe anything without any fact behind it is nothing shy of delusional.

My girlfriend dragged me to the biggest church in Houston for Easter. They hold their services in what was once the Rockets' basketball arena. An arenafull of people dancing and going crazy about something they, nor anybody they know, has ever seen, felt - nothing. I felt like I was surrounded by a bunch ofcrazy people. How can people be so blind?

The most hilarious part is that they will follow this nonsense so passionately, but they'll disbelieve major scientific findings because it goes againstthe religion. I mean, you must be literally crazy to some degree to be able to believe make-believe with ease, but doubt science.

If you believe in a God, but not a religion, then you're missing the whole boat. God is the most worthless part of Christianity. The whole purpose of it isthe commandments and the behavioral guidelines it presents - most of which are good for people of any/no religion to followto...most. God was just the fatherly figure for you to be scared of so that you would actually feel like somebody was going to punish you ifyou didn't follow the social guidance theory.

There's no such thing as a "good Christian" - There's the Christians that say that they're Christians, but go out and do terrible thingsevery day. Then there's the ones that follow the book precisely, but are rude to anybody who has a different set of beliefs - if you have the audacity tocall that "good," then you truly are delusional.

 

[lesfamilia]

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

Cliff's Notes: The only good thing to come out of God/religion is the few people who behave decently because they're scared of this heaven/hell nonsense. However, many nonbelievers behave the same way (not killing, raping, etc), and many "believers" are awful people - not mention delusional because they believe fairy tales more than they believe in science.

Time changed for J.C. BC>AD. Life changed when he came to earth.

Nothing changed during this time switch. BC/AD was created back when religion was used as the law of the land - before there were constitutions and things of that nature. BC/AD was just a way to explain prehistoric times with people. If you think about it, BC is considered pre-historic... that is, before there's records of anything. So people can--and obviously have--make up whatever they want and say that that's what happened in that time period. Point is, there's no proof.

It's laughable that people can follow something - anything, so blindly. If we're the only two people in the room and something of yours comes up missing and I said I didn't take it - would you believe that? If not, then why are you so sure about this God and religion thing? There's no logical reasoning to believe in it except for the fact that somebody scared your great-grandparents into believing it, and they kept scaring every other generation into believing it, too. You have not seen anything that would provide even minimal proof that A GOD existed. Science can be used to prove just about everything in existence - the only thing not 100% concretely provable is how life started BUT there is a theory that is based off of other provable scientific findings that has at least SOME foundation of fact behind it. Religion/God = not a single fact behind it.

Religion/God is intended to be nothing but a means of social control - and sometimes it works.[/b] Usually, people just use it as a basis for hating others that aren't just like them. Studies have shown that high religious beliefs have a direct correlation with lack of education and intelligence.

Personally, I think anybody who will believe anything without any fact behind it is nothing shy of delusional.

My girlfriend dragged me to the biggest church in Houston for Easter. They hold their services in what was once the Rockets' basketball arena. An arena full of people dancing and going crazy about something they, nor anybody they know, has ever seen, felt - nothing. I felt like I was surrounded by a bunch of crazy people. How can people be so blind?

The most hilarious part is that they will follow this nonsense so passionately, but they'll disbelieve major scientific findings because it goes against the religion. I mean, you must be literally crazy to some degree to be able to believe make-believe with ease, but doubt science.

If you believe in a God, but not a religion, then you're missing the whole boat. God is the most worthless part of Christianity. The whole purpose of it is the commandments and the behavioral guidelines it presents - most of which are good for people of any/no religion to follow to...most. God was just the fatherly figure for you to be scared of so that you would actually feel like somebody was going to punish you if you didn't follow the social guidance theory.

There's no such thing as a "good Christian" - There's the Christians that say that they're Christians, but go out and do terrible things every day. Then there's the ones that follow the book precisely, but are rude to anybody who has a different set of beliefs - if you have the audacity to call that "good," then you truly are delusional.


This is not entirely true. One of the most corrupt aspects of the Christian church over time (in addition to any other major organized religion)is that it used it's tenets to put people in manacles, but mentally and physically. The Conquistadors "spread the love of Christ" to the nativeLatin and Central Americans by infecting them with malaria, small pox, raping their women, and ultimately, their land. Looking back at the Roman Empire, theyactually crucified Jesus Christ "in the name of order." I can entirely see why a person would want to believe in a Higher Power without religion. Most organized religion is in fact, mind control.

 

[retrospect90]

^is some people out there that belong to a religion that aren't corrupt or rude. Granted very few of them exist but I feel like I'm one of them.

 

[lesfamilia]

Originally Posted by retrospect90

^is some people out there that belong to a religion that aren't corrupt or rude. Granted very few of them exist but I feel like I'm one of them.

I totally believe that. But I will not accept something as an absolute affirmation, especially not a statement as hackneyed and flawed as the oneposted before me.

 

[russ tha g]

FTR, I don't dislike people who believe in religion because I can't fully prove my views either. I just have a little bit of a grudge because people ofmultiple religions have shown me that believing in one thing that may or may-not exist can have you look over something that does exist. I should probably usethat as a preface to my posts. People of Christian, Islam, Judaism - probably even more faiths that I'm forgetting, have looked down on me for notbelieving in their set of beliefs. Outside of NT, I really don't talk about religion because I consider it arbitrary - that is, if you're a goodperson, I don't care if you worship Spongebob in your private time. I just don't think you should hate somebody because they're different from youin a measurable that's not even truly able to be measured.

 

[lesfamilia]

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

FTR, I don't dislike people who believe in religion because I can't fully prove my views either. I just have a little bit of a grudge because people of multiple religions have shown me that believing in one thing that may or may-not exist can have you look over something that does exist. I should probably use that as a preface to my posts. People of Christian, Islam, Judaism - probably even more faiths that I'm forgetting, have looked down on me for not believing in their set of beliefs. Outside of NT, I really don't talk about religion because I consider it arbitrary - that is, if you're a good person, I don't care if you worship Spongebob in your private time. I just don't think you should hate somebody because they're different from you in a measurable that's not even truly able to be measured.

Understood, brother.

 

[retrospect90]

Yea is hard to believe somethin when your whole life u been shown otherwise. Is like you have to see it before you believe it now.

 

[lemonade41]

I'm very much a Christian, but I'm skeptical as hell, to the point where one day I just came up with my own definition that made sense to me. For mejust way too many things were off, I understand having faith and all but seeing things like Jesus Camp makes me wonder.

 

[bilbo07]

Originally Posted by LESfamilia

Originally Posted by bilbo07

Originally Posted by Chi ILL

- Because the most religious people I know seem to be the most evil .

Probably the realest thing Ive read on NT.

Kneesh, am I evil to you? I promise you: I'm doing the best I can everyday to be the best person I can be. It's not easy, but through Him nothing is impossible.

dont get me wrong, therese nothing wrong with being really religious, but from personal experience, if your not as religious as some people they look down onyou.

 

[mo matik]

^It's still a generalization though.

I could argue that atheists often sit on their high horses and look at religious people as unintelligent and unwilling to accept what they perceive asrealities.

 

[lesfamilia]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

^It's still a generalization though.

I could argue that atheists often sit on their high horses and look at religious people as unintelligent and unwilling to accept what they perceive as realities.

...Basically. I've already gone through enough last week and don't even feel like having to defend my faith on such a public forum asthis. I hope you all continue to have a blessed weekend.

 

[Retroballer]

i have faith in god and everthing about him. the only thing that bugs me is that the non believers always say god isnt real because there in no proof. Wellwhere is the proof that he isnt real? I just feel people care to much about other beliefs. Do you and be happy

 

[korto]

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Jesus wasn't unique though that is the thing. The bible is telling me I can't be perfect.

I'm not sure what part of the bible you got that from, but I do know that that's not what Jesus taught. Quote from Jesus: "Even theleast among you can do all that I have done, and greater things."

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

It's laughable that people can follow something - anything, so blindly. If we're the only two people in the room and something of yours comes up missing and I said I didn't take it - would you believe that? If not, then why are you so sure about this God and religion thing? There's no logical reasoning to believe in it except for the fact that somebody scared your great-grandparents into believing it, and they kept scaring every other generation into believing it, too. You have not seen anything that would provide even minimal proof that A GOD existed. Science can be used to prove just about everything in existence - the only thing not 100% concretely provable is how life started BUT there is a theory that is based off of other provable scientific findings that has at least SOME foundation of fact behind it. Religion/God = not a single fact behind it.

Religion/God is intended to be nothing but a means of social control - and sometimes it works.[/b] Usually, people just use it as a basis for hating others that aren't just like them. Studies have shown that high religious beliefs have a direct correlation with lack of education and intelligence.

Personally, I think anybody who will believe anything without any fact behind it is nothing shy of delusional.

My girlfriend dragged me to the biggest church in Houston for Easter. They hold their services in what was once the Rockets' basketball arena. An arena full of people dancing and going crazy about something they, nor anybody they know, has ever seen, felt - nothing. I felt like I was surrounded by a bunch of crazy people. How can people be so blind?

If you believe in a God, but not a religion, then you're missing the whole boat. God is the most worthless part of Christianity. The whole purpose of it is the commandments and the behavioral guidelines it presents - most of which are good for people of any/no religion to follow to...most. God was just the fatherly figure for you to be scared of so that you would actually feel like somebody was going to punish you if you didn't follow the social guidance theory.

There's no such thing as a "good Christian" - There's the Christians that say that they're Christians, but go out and do terrible things every day. Then there's the ones that follow the book precisely, but are rude to anybody who has a different set of beliefs - if you have the audacity to call that "good," then you truly are delusional.

I honestly do feel sorry for you. Not because you don't believe, but because you're a slave to your "logical reasoning". Don't you see that you so stubbornly following your "logical reasoning" is the exact same as someone else who is so stubbornly following theirreligion? You always question other people's views but have you ever questioned your own logic? What even is your own logic? Why do you follow yourlogic so passionately? Logic isn't a perfect thing, logic is constantly changing. Logic 500 years ago is completely different from logic today, havingconversations with people all around the world through text using a "computer" would have been the most illogical thing imaginable 500 years ago, butyou're doing it right now. Yet you still choose to base your life around this constantly changing logic, you never question it. And for that, you areblinder than most Christians, but you don't even realize it. Believe it or not, there is something beyond logic, something permanent, unchanging, andeternal... but you again and again fail to grasp it because you're trying to see it with your logic.

Don't get me wrong, logic is a great thing to have, as long as you don't let it control your life. Use it when necessary, and then just let it go. Realize that the beauty of life cannot be captured through logic.

One more time, please realize that if you follow your logic so passionately, you are just as blind as the people you criticize for following the bible sopassionately. If you're trying to understand this logically you may not get it, but it is true. There is something beyond your logic.