Gay Rights slams Kobe-- "what a disgrace" Kobe gets fined 100k

[shaunhillftw49]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by JordanHead718212

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Stop saying it's a freedom of speech issue. No one is saying that Kobe doesn't have the right to say it.

For those of you saying it's okay to attack gays for their sexual orientation because they chose (

) to be gay, can I please please please attack you because of your religion? Pretty please? After all, you weren't born with your religion...(I already know that you're religious, how cool is that?

)

Kobe chose the word to signify how sensitive the referee was.. He knew what he was saying.  He used it as a slur.

As Usual your bringing religion into this when its barely been mentioned in this thread at all. When will you ever shut the ++#$ up about it?

Where else does homophobia come from?

Again, since you can attack gays because they chose to be gay, can I please attack you for your religion? PLEASE???

You already do so that's not helping your argument

 

[shaunhillftw49]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by JordanHead718212

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Stop saying it's a freedom of speech issue. No one is saying that Kobe doesn't have the right to say it.

For those of you saying it's okay to attack gays for their sexual orientation because they chose (

) to be gay, can I please please please attack you because of your religion? Pretty please? After all, you weren't born with your religion...(I already know that you're religious, how cool is that?

)

Kobe chose the word to signify how sensitive the referee was.. He knew what he was saying.  He used it as a slur.

As Usual your bringing religion into this when its barely been mentioned in this thread at all. When will you ever shut the ++#$ up about it?

Where else does homophobia come from?

Again, since you can attack gays because they chose to be gay, can I please attack you for your religion? PLEASE???

You already do so that's not helping your argument

 

[got shoes]

it's way out of hand. It's just the fact that it was televised and it was Kobe. Some people are just looking for 15 minutes of fame

 

[got shoes]

it's way out of hand. It's just the fact that it was televised and it was Kobe. Some people are just looking for 15 minutes of fame

 

[Clyde Frog]

Originally Posted by Method Man

I dont get why people cant get the concept of intent. I use that word all time jokingly with my friends, not one of them are gay. 

So, you've decided it's not offensive because of the reactions of your straight friends?  Really?
You KNOW that by using a slur you're offending others, but rather than reform your behavior you're falling back on this excuse that "you don't mean it."  

Well, at a certain point, that's not a valid excuse - because you know that the behavior IS hurting others and yet you continue to do it.  What's more, you expect everyone else to adapt and "suck it up," just so you can continue to use a highly offensive slur at your leisure. 

I think you missed what I was trying to say with my straight friends and I using the word. The point is im not saying to my straight friend you like men, literally. What im trying to say is that a slur or swear word can be transformed into any meaning you want to be. When I say shut up F*****, Im not saying shut up you like males, I look down upon you because of your sexuality. It can mean anything. Its just the sensitive activists or whoever else that is offended easily have to have a hissy fit over a word. Its just a word. Again, if i say you are a disgusting individual and I hate you F***** because of your sexuality then thats disrespectful, there is now a reason to be mad. Unless I say it with the intent to degrade you and put you on a lower pedestal than everyone else, Its. Just. Not. That. Serious.
So yes they can suck it up and chill out. If I wanna disrespect you individually I could. Ill continue to say it at my leisure because im not using it in the context of its actual meaning. Which is exactly what Kobe did.

Again you have your stance I have mine we'll agree to disagree. Im just saying people are too worked up these days over nothing. ITS JUST A WORD!

 

[Clyde Frog]

Originally Posted by Method Man

I dont get why people cant get the concept of intent. I use that word all time jokingly with my friends, not one of them are gay. 

So, you've decided it's not offensive because of the reactions of your straight friends?  Really?
You KNOW that by using a slur you're offending others, but rather than reform your behavior you're falling back on this excuse that "you don't mean it."  

Well, at a certain point, that's not a valid excuse - because you know that the behavior IS hurting others and yet you continue to do it.  What's more, you expect everyone else to adapt and "suck it up," just so you can continue to use a highly offensive slur at your leisure. 

I think you missed what I was trying to say with my straight friends and I using the word. The point is im not saying to my straight friend you like men, literally. What im trying to say is that a slur or swear word can be transformed into any meaning you want to be. When I say shut up F*****, Im not saying shut up you like males, I look down upon you because of your sexuality. It can mean anything. Its just the sensitive activists or whoever else that is offended easily have to have a hissy fit over a word. Its just a word. Again, if i say you are a disgusting individual and I hate you F***** because of your sexuality then thats disrespectful, there is now a reason to be mad. Unless I say it with the intent to degrade you and put you on a lower pedestal than everyone else, Its. Just. Not. That. Serious.
So yes they can suck it up and chill out. If I wanna disrespect you individually I could. Ill continue to say it at my leisure because im not using it in the context of its actual meaning. Which is exactly what Kobe did.

Again you have your stance I have mine we'll agree to disagree. Im just saying people are too worked up these days over nothing. ITS JUST A WORD!

 

[devildog1776]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by devildog1776

Stern is a member of the CFR... Council on Foreign Relations . If you know anything about their policies and agenda this fits well into that space....

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I just look at facts and analyze them within my own reasonin....

It's a gay world we living in

Choose group, race, religion, etc you hate or fear
Describe theory about how said group runs everything

Someone who hates blacks: blacks run everything, the media etc. Look at that black Obama, friggin foreigner. Ruining the white way of life
Someone who hates jews: Jews run everything, its a Jew world we live in

Now $%%@% are getting their shot at conspiracy theorists....it's a destructive thought process without any offered solutions.


And God forbid this world turned a little more gay and less hypermasculine.

you still didn't say anything within those keystrokes. Tone down masculinity??? Pause for you and only you. Your lack of understanding causes your blurred vision... Try again

 

[devildog1776]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by devildog1776

Stern is a member of the CFR... Council on Foreign Relations . If you know anything about their policies and agenda this fits well into that space....

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I just look at facts and analyze them within my own reasonin....

It's a gay world we living in

Choose group, race, religion, etc you hate or fear
Describe theory about how said group runs everything

Someone who hates blacks: blacks run everything, the media etc. Look at that black Obama, friggin foreigner. Ruining the white way of life
Someone who hates jews: Jews run everything, its a Jew world we live in

Now $%%@% are getting their shot at conspiracy theorists....it's a destructive thought process without any offered solutions.


And God forbid this world turned a little more gay and less hypermasculine.

you still didn't say anything within those keystrokes. Tone down masculinity??? Pause for you and only you. Your lack of understanding causes your blurred vision... Try again

 

[b smooth 202]

SMH....100k fine for Kobe....a fortune for South Park

 

[mr oizo]

I don't like how people are trying to say if this was the n word it would be different. Maybe it would be to some but not me. Meth's huge essay on intent and what not is really stupid to me. His example of pushing people in line is completely different than saying this word. I don't care if people say the n word, or this f word. Especially when someone says f***** they're not even thinking of homosexuals. I realize that the word derives from a frown upon homosexuals, but it's completely different now. I'm cool with gay people and I still say gay all the time. If someone really wants to say "Oh that's so Mr. Oizo who is ugly as hell." then be my guest. Want to know why no one will? It's not convenient. This whole thing is really stupid. Let people say what they want and stop being so emotional about it.

 

[mr oizo]

I don't like how people are trying to say if this was the n word it would be different. Maybe it would be to some but not me. Meth's huge essay on intent and what not is really stupid to me. His example of pushing people in line is completely different than saying this word. I don't care if people say the n word, or this f word. Especially when someone says f***** they're not even thinking of homosexuals. I realize that the word derives from a frown upon homosexuals, but it's completely different now. I'm cool with gay people and I still say gay all the time. If someone really wants to say "Oh that's so Mr. Oizo who is ugly as hell." then be my guest. Want to know why no one will? It's not convenient. This whole thing is really stupid. Let people say what they want and stop being so emotional about it.

 

[b smooth 202]

SMH....100k fine for Kobe....a fortune for South Park

 

[devildog1776]

Originally Posted by Mr Oizo

I don't like how people are trying to say if this was the n word it would be different. Maybe it would be to some but not me. Meth's huge essay on intent and what not is really stupid to me. His example of pushing people in line is completely different than saying this word. I don't care if people say the n word, or this f word. Especially when someone says f***** they're not even thinking of homosexuals. I realize that the word derives from a frown upon homosexuals, but it's completely different now. I'm cool with gay people and I still say gay all the time. If someone really wants to say "Oh that's so Mr. Oizo who is ugly as hell." then be my guest. Want to know why no one will? It's not convenient. This whole thing is really stupid. Let people say what they want and stop being so emotional about it.

Cue applause

 

[devildog1776]

Originally Posted by Mr Oizo

I don't like how people are trying to say if this was the n word it would be different. Maybe it would be to some but not me. Meth's huge essay on intent and what not is really stupid to me. His example of pushing people in line is completely different than saying this word. I don't care if people say the n word, or this f word. Especially when someone says f***** they're not even thinking of homosexuals. I realize that the word derives from a frown upon homosexuals, but it's completely different now. I'm cool with gay people and I still say gay all the time. If someone really wants to say "Oh that's so Mr. Oizo who is ugly as hell." then be my guest. Want to know why no one will? It's not convenient. This whole thing is really stupid. Let people say what they want and stop being so emotional about it.

Cue applause

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by E3LAL

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican


Kobe is a 14 year vet. He has had cameras in his face since he was a kid. HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER. There is no excuse for this. He should know better.

Well, the TNT cameras should not have panned towards an angry player.  That's just looking for trouble.

Is that really your response?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by E3LAL

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican


Kobe is a 14 year vet. He has had cameras in his face since he was a kid. HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER. There is no excuse for this. He should know better.

Well, the TNT cameras should not have panned towards an angry player.  That's just looking for trouble.

Is that really your response?

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by E3LAL

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican


Kobe is a 14 year vet. He has had cameras in his face since he was a kid. HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER. There is no excuse for this. He should know better.

Well, the TNT cameras should not have panned towards an angry player.  That's just looking for trouble.

Is that really your response?

most of ya @#%+*% i can TELL never been to a NBA game....dem dudes curse 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999.999999999% of da time

there's a reason there don't have mics near da court unless its around da rim to hear da ball swoosh thru da net..and even then sometimes u can hear a couple of things.

i can't believe this is a serious issue

david stern OD on da punishment, there's no arguing that

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by E3LAL

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican


Kobe is a 14 year vet. He has had cameras in his face since he was a kid. HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER. There is no excuse for this. He should know better.

Well, the TNT cameras should not have panned towards an angry player.  That's just looking for trouble.

Is that really your response?

most of ya @#%+*% i can TELL never been to a NBA game....dem dudes curse 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999.999999999% of da time

there's a reason there don't have mics near da court unless its around da rim to hear da ball swoosh thru da net..and even then sometimes u can hear a couple of things.

i can't believe this is a serious issue

david stern OD on da punishment, there's no arguing that

 

[lobotomybeats]

Originally Posted by devildog1776

Originally Posted by Mr Oizo

I don't like how people are trying to say if this was the n word it would be different. Maybe it would be to some but not me. Meth's huge essay on intent and what not is really stupid to me. His example of pushing people in line is completely different than saying this word. I don't care if people say the n word, or this f word. Especially when someone says f***** they're not even thinking of homosexuals. I realize that the word derives from a frown upon homosexuals, but it's completely different now. I'm cool with gay people and I still say gay all the time. If someone really wants to say "Oh that's so Mr. Oizo who is ugly as hell." then be my guest. Want to know why no one will? It's not convenient. This whole thing is really stupid. Let people say what they want and stop being so emotional about it.

Cue applause

How is this applause worthy?

 

[lobotomybeats]

Originally Posted by devildog1776

Originally Posted by Mr Oizo

I don't like how people are trying to say if this was the n word it would be different. Maybe it would be to some but not me. Meth's huge essay on intent and what not is really stupid to me. His example of pushing people in line is completely different than saying this word. I don't care if people say the n word, or this f word. Especially when someone says f***** they're not even thinking of homosexuals. I realize that the word derives from a frown upon homosexuals, but it's completely different now. I'm cool with gay people and I still say gay all the time. If someone really wants to say "Oh that's so Mr. Oizo who is ugly as hell." then be my guest. Want to know why no one will? It's not convenient. This whole thing is really stupid. Let people say what they want and stop being so emotional about it.

Cue applause

How is this applause worthy?

 

[tonyreali]

Originally Posted by Method Man

I dont get why people cant get the concept of intent. I use that word all time jokingly with my friends, not one of them are gay. 

So, you've decided it's not offensive because of the reactions of your straight friends?  Really?
Let's talk about intent for a minute.  

When I was an undergrad I contributed to an intergroup dialog program that facilitated discussions on racial issues.  I participated in several series of them and, each time, some of the White students would bring up the concept of intent in attempt to excuse making racist statements and assumptions.  Basically, they felt that they shouldn't be judged harshly unless they MEANT to cause harm to others.  They didn't want to be forced to change their behavior or reconsider the way they looked at the world.  They wanted to continue to behave as they always had, without acknowledging the unearned privileges associated with their majority status and the undeserved penalties associated with minority status.  It's a false sense of innocence.  They didn't want the benefits to which they'd become accustomed to be cut off, but they didn't want to acknowledge where those benefits came from or that other people suffer as a result.  And so, they try to rationalize it such that these benefits are "rightfully earned," considering them a function of hard work or education, for example.  They'd argue that if a Black student felt uncomfortable holding a White student's hand in public that they were just "imagining it," or that if you were followed around a store that it was because of the way you were dressed, that you brought it on yourself and the clerk's actions weren't racially motivated.

Heterosexual privilege isn't the same as White privilege, but it does function in a similar way.

Imagine that you're waiting in line in a crowded space.  A friend of mine is in line ahead of you and I decide that I'd like to talk to him.  So, I shove a few people out of my way and walk over to his place in line.  Since I'm focusing on my conversation, I'm not really paying any attention to the other people in line or those I've pushed past, and, without knowing it, I'm standing on your foot.  It wasn't my goal to stand on your foot, but it happened.  I'm not feeling any pain, so I couldn't really care any less about it.  

At this point, if you have any self-respect whatsoever, you'll probably try to get my attention to let me know that I'm standing on your foot and probably scuffing up your shoes.  

Imagine if I responded by saying, "well, I'm sorry if I've caused any harm.  I didn't mean to.  If this place weren't so crowded it would never have happened."  Fair enough, right?  It would be - except that, as the line moves up and everyone shuffles a bit, I'm going to do the same thing again.  And again.  As you become increasingly indignant, I'm just going to reinforce my position, "look, I'm not TRYING to step on your foot.  It's just happening.  I'm not used to looking at my feet while I walk and I'm not going to inconvenience myself to avoid stepping on you.  I don't know what you're whining about anyway.  You say it's hurting you, but I'm not feeling any pain."   

You KNOW that by using a slur you're offending others, but rather than reform your behavior you're falling back on this excuse that "you don't mean it."  

Well, at a certain point, that's not a valid excuse - because you know that the behavior IS hurting others and yet you continue to do it.  What's more, you expect everyone else to adapt and "suck it up," just so you can continue to use a highly offensive slur at your leisure. 

Using that type of language can make others feel disrespected - and, frankly, that's what slurs are intended to do.  It's a bit like playing catch with a skull.  You and your friends may have fun throwing around the remains of someone else's grandmother, and in theory it isn't hurting anyone, but if people discover that's what you've been doing, including the relatives of the deceased, you should expect them to be offended by it.  Realistically, you should expect them to think less of you.  Perhaps someone else's skull is just an inanimate object to you, but you live in a society in which many people feel a deep sense of respect for the remains of their loved ones and don't want to see those remains treated so frivolously.  Knowing that, what you're doing is insensitive to say the least - and it is intentionally insensitive in that you don't care that it's offensive to others.  You do it because you feel like it and you're not interested in changing your behavior.  That's a pretty selfish position. 

I still don't understand whats the big deal. It's not like he actually called the referee a %%@!@!. At least he isn't on sidelines yelling and cussing at the top of his lungs like this guy...

 

[tonyreali]

Originally Posted by Method Man

I dont get why people cant get the concept of intent. I use that word all time jokingly with my friends, not one of them are gay. 

So, you've decided it's not offensive because of the reactions of your straight friends?  Really?
Let's talk about intent for a minute.  

When I was an undergrad I contributed to an intergroup dialog program that facilitated discussions on racial issues.  I participated in several series of them and, each time, some of the White students would bring up the concept of intent in attempt to excuse making racist statements and assumptions.  Basically, they felt that they shouldn't be judged harshly unless they MEANT to cause harm to others.  They didn't want to be forced to change their behavior or reconsider the way they looked at the world.  They wanted to continue to behave as they always had, without acknowledging the unearned privileges associated with their majority status and the undeserved penalties associated with minority status.  It's a false sense of innocence.  They didn't want the benefits to which they'd become accustomed to be cut off, but they didn't want to acknowledge where those benefits came from or that other people suffer as a result.  And so, they try to rationalize it such that these benefits are "rightfully earned," considering them a function of hard work or education, for example.  They'd argue that if a Black student felt uncomfortable holding a White student's hand in public that they were just "imagining it," or that if you were followed around a store that it was because of the way you were dressed, that you brought it on yourself and the clerk's actions weren't racially motivated.

Heterosexual privilege isn't the same as White privilege, but it does function in a similar way.

Imagine that you're waiting in line in a crowded space.  A friend of mine is in line ahead of you and I decide that I'd like to talk to him.  So, I shove a few people out of my way and walk over to his place in line.  Since I'm focusing on my conversation, I'm not really paying any attention to the other people in line or those I've pushed past, and, without knowing it, I'm standing on your foot.  It wasn't my goal to stand on your foot, but it happened.  I'm not feeling any pain, so I couldn't really care any less about it.  

At this point, if you have any self-respect whatsoever, you'll probably try to get my attention to let me know that I'm standing on your foot and probably scuffing up your shoes.  

Imagine if I responded by saying, "well, I'm sorry if I've caused any harm.  I didn't mean to.  If this place weren't so crowded it would never have happened."  Fair enough, right?  It would be - except that, as the line moves up and everyone shuffles a bit, I'm going to do the same thing again.  And again.  As you become increasingly indignant, I'm just going to reinforce my position, "look, I'm not TRYING to step on your foot.  It's just happening.  I'm not used to looking at my feet while I walk and I'm not going to inconvenience myself to avoid stepping on you.  I don't know what you're whining about anyway.  You say it's hurting you, but I'm not feeling any pain."   

You KNOW that by using a slur you're offending others, but rather than reform your behavior you're falling back on this excuse that "you don't mean it."  

Well, at a certain point, that's not a valid excuse - because you know that the behavior IS hurting others and yet you continue to do it.  What's more, you expect everyone else to adapt and "suck it up," just so you can continue to use a highly offensive slur at your leisure. 

Using that type of language can make others feel disrespected - and, frankly, that's what slurs are intended to do.  It's a bit like playing catch with a skull.  You and your friends may have fun throwing around the remains of someone else's grandmother, and in theory it isn't hurting anyone, but if people discover that's what you've been doing, including the relatives of the deceased, you should expect them to be offended by it.  Realistically, you should expect them to think less of you.  Perhaps someone else's skull is just an inanimate object to you, but you live in a society in which many people feel a deep sense of respect for the remains of their loved ones and don't want to see those remains treated so frivolously.  Knowing that, what you're doing is insensitive to say the least - and it is intentionally insensitive in that you don't care that it's offensive to others.  You do it because you feel like it and you're not interested in changing your behavior.  That's a pretty selfish position. 

I still don't understand whats the big deal. It's not like he actually called the referee a %%@!@!. At least he isn't on sidelines yelling and cussing at the top of his lungs like this guy...

 

[DCAllAfrican]

So because I am saying that the behavior is not appropriate means I don't go to NBA games? Ok Ninja. You got it.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

So because I am saying that the behavior is not appropriate means I don't go to NBA games? Ok Ninja. You got it.

 

[Methodical Management]

Originally Posted by RATxAxTAT

Method Man wrote:

---

If there was a like button, I'd like this post. Unfortunately, all of what you've just said will probably go in one ear and out the other of some folks.
And that's to be expected.  The person listening to you isn't always the person to whom you're speaking.  That doesn't make it a wasted effort. 
As I've learned from a good deal personal experience in social justice issues, it's often the case that the people who benefit the most from a discussion don't take part in it directly.  They're generally the ones who are too uncertain about their own feelings to venture an opinion, which makes them interested in actually considering multiple positions rather than simply (often blindly) defending their own.  

The point is im not saying to my straight friend you like men, literally. What im trying to say is that a slur or swear word can be transformed into any meaning you want to be. When I say shut up F*****, Im not saying shut up you like males, I look down upon you because of your sexuality. It can mean anything. Its just the sensitive activists or whoever else that is offended easily have to have a hissy fit over a word. Its just a word.
You're not "transforming the meaning."  You're using it as an insult because you've heard it used as an insult.  Almost certainly, you knew that the word was an insult long before you ever knew what it meant.   Now that you know what it means, can you in good conscience continue to use it with the same naive ignorance as you may have when you were 6 years old?  
Even Kobe's apology smacks of this same sentiment, i.e. "I didn't mean it literally."  And?  When you say, "this test is so gay" are you really describing its assumed sexual orientation?  Interpreting it "literally" in that context is nonsensical.  Simply using "gay" to mean "bad" is offensive in and of itself - and that is how Kobe used it.  

So, in that sense, you're not even transforming it.  You're still using it as an insult.  

Earl Ofari Hutchinson has a great section on racial slurs in The Assassination of the Black Male Image:  

“The Black ‘N’ word defenders miss the point.  Words are not value-neutral.  They express concepts and ideas.  Often, words reflect society’s standards.  If colorphobia is one standard, then a word as emotionally charged as ------ can easily reinforce and perpetuate stereotypes.  The word ------ does precisely that.  It is the most hurtful and enduring symbol of black oppression.