I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm a Christian.

[sillyputty]

TKTHAFM and Mo Matik these are for you all since you say its not Islam, its "culture" 

http://freethoughtblogs.c...12/on-religious-grounds/

[h2]On religious grounds[/h2]

 December 9, 2011 at 12:30 pm 

 Ophelia Benson

Human Rights Watch on child (meaning girl) marriage in Yemen.

Fourteen-year-old Reem, from Sanaa, was 11 years old when her father married her to her cousin, a man almost 21 years her senior. One day, Reem’s father dressed her in a niqab (the Islamic veil that covers the face, exposing only the eyes), and took her by car to Radda,150 kilometers southeast of Sanaa, to meet her soon-to-be husband. Against Reem’s will, a quick religious marriage ensued. Three days after she was married, her husband raped her. Reem attempted suicide by cutting her wrists with a razor. Her husband took her back to her father in Sanaa, and Reem then ran away to her mother (her parents are divorced). Reem’s mother escorted her to court in an attempt to get a divorce. The judge told her, “We don’t divorce little girls.

 

[mo matik]

Jonathan Brown - Abiding Stereotypes About the Prophet Muhammad in the Medieval and Modern West from Ali Vural Ak Center for Global I on Vimeo.

You can make your posts with large font and red letters but it doesn't change the fact that you can't look beyond the headlines. You, much like the people who marry off these kids against their will in Yemen, do NOT understand the marriage to Aisha and the context of pre-modern Arabia. When you grew up and got sexual urges in the middle of the desert, you got married and had kids. No one was waiting around telling you to go to school instead-these are modern constructions.

 

[tkthafm]

Originally Posted by an dee 51o

Originally Posted by Iamjusayn

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Just as a side note, if your worried about religious influence on US policy, you should do a little research on the Zionist lobby/string-pulling on pretty much all spheres of government/media. Christianity is more at the forefront obviously because of sheer numbers but the puppet masters behind the scenes are disproportionately Zionist Jews.

Someone gets it

Sounding like a bunch of Nazis.

 

[antonlavey]

^^^^TKTHAFM angry at Jews for doing the same thing Muslims would do if they were in their position
Zionism and Islamic fascism are the same thing.

Take a long look in the mirror TK. Jews think they're better than Muslims, sounds familiar.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik


Jonathan Brown - Abiding Stereotypes About the Prophet Muhammad in the Medieval and Modern West from Ali Vural Ak Center for Global I on Vimeo.

You can make your posts with large font and red letters but it doesn't change the fact that you can't look beyond the headlines. You, much like the people who marry off these kids against their will in Yemen, do NOT understand the marriage to Aisha and the context of pre-modern Arabia. When you grew up and got sexual urges in the middle of the desert, you got married and had kids. No one was waiting around telling you to go to school instead-these are modern constructions.

In prehistoric times I would just beat women over the head and rape them.....people don't understand it. Look at the headlines.

 

[tkthafm]

Because when the Islamic Caliphates ruled Jews/Christians lived under apartheid conditions.

Oh right, they didn't.

'Islamofascism' - an oxymoron invented by Zionist media outlets. Keep in mind the distinction between Zionism and Judaism. As far as I know Judaism is completely opposed to Zionism.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Because when the Islamic Caliphates ruled Jews/Christians lived under apartheid conditions.

Oh right, they didn't.

'Islamofascism' - an oxymoron invented by Zionist media outlets. Keep in mind the distinction between Zionism and Judaism. As far as I know Judaism is completely opposed to Zionism.

If Muslims could they would....and you know it!!!
Again I'm against Isreali occupation in Palestine but people like you are part of the problem. Jews think they're better than Muslims, and you would challenge that with your own uneducated bullcrap.

 

[tkthafm]

Again, no they wouldn't. You're trying to refute 1400 years of evidence with your uneducated guesses at what you THINK would happen.

Your against the Israeli occupation. That's nice, so am I. The vast majority of Palestinians are Muslims, so how again am I "part of the problem" ?

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Again, no they wouldn't. You're trying to refute 1400 years of evidence with your uneducated guesses at what you THINK would happen.

Your against the Israeli occupation. That's nice, so am I. The vast majority of Palestinians are Muslims, so how again am I "part of the problem" ?

LOL Muslims wouldn't oppress Jews if they could?

Really guy? You're more delusional than I thought you were

Like I said, everyone thinks their religion is the best thing since sliced bread you're no different kiddo.

 

[tkthafm]

I'm sure a small minority/criminals would, just as they oppress fellow Muslims. The point is the vast majority who follow Islamic law would not because doing so would violate Islam. They would prosecute those who violated Jewish rights (many famous cases of this in Islamic history... sadly you are completely ignorant and uneducated on the matter) This is backed by hundreds of years of evidence. You're the delusional one here... you ignore the fact that Muslims had Jews living in peace under their rule with no problem for centuries because it doesn't fit your twisted view of Muslims being bloodthirsty animals. There was never a system of apartheid instituted against the Jews by Muslims the way "secular" "democratic" Israel has done against the Palestinians.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik


Jonathan Brown - Abiding Stereotypes About the Prophet Muhammad in the Medieval and Modern West from Ali Vural Ak Center for Global I on Vimeo.

You can make your posts with large font and red letters but it doesn't change the fact that you can't look beyond the headlines. You, much like the people who marry off these kids against their will in Yemen, do NOT understand the marriage to Aisha and the context of pre-modern Arabia. When you grew up and got sexual urges in the middle of the desert, you got married and had kids. No one was waiting around telling you to go to school instead-these are modern constructions.

This is EXACTLY my point.

If you want to keep talking about Context then you must admit that God, allah, Muhammad, whatever did NOT create an infallible source of information for you to refer to.

If the context of an infallible an infinite body of knowledge changes then it is NOT infallible.

2+2=4 is aninfalliblemathematical fact. It will always be true. The quantity defined as two, plus another quantity defined as two will ALWAYS equal the quantity defined as four.

Morality evolves and changes...and RIGHT NOW...them relying on what was WRITTEN IN THEIR BOOK, makes me respect them even MORE...you know why? They're at least being CONSISTENT WITH THE QURAN.

You can't even do that. The best you can do is defend them when you KNOW its wrong...but still say that islam is still the way. How can it be? You know that these people in Yemen have a point because the quran says its the right thing to do...but you're stuck defending something you know that is morally wrong.

Stop talking about context if it only matters when YOU want to talk about it.

Islam DOES tell you how and when and why to beat your wife.

Islam DOES tell you how and when to kill infidels.

But now its about "context"...and we don't "understand"...oh really? When did the rules to follow change? When society moved forward? Or was it when you realized that those actions were ultimately immoral because they infringed on the rights to exist peacefully that others have.

You're moving the goalposts and get mad that people call you out on it.

CONTEXT DOES NOT MATTER.

In the Quran. Aisha is 9. Gets married. Has sex. Yemen follows their religion to a T...but you have a problem with me calling you out on the fact you're supporting this but don't have the consistency to admit its wrong.

How about I marry your nine year old daughter off?...Not ten year old...NINE YEARS OLD.

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Because when the Islamic Caliphates ruled Jews/Christians lived under apartheid conditions.

Oh right, they didn't.

'Islamofascism' - an oxymoron invented by Zionist media outlets. Keep in mind the distinction between Zionism and Judaism. As far as I know Judaism is completely opposed to Zionism.

More crap from you about the glory days of islam. Plus, the romans let their conquered people keep their faiths as long as they paid taxes. Stop acting like islam is the only group of people to do so...

Plus, i'm sure the muslims that overran the iberianpeninsulaand took on the title of moors were really nice to the christians living there, right? But its cool, more revisionist history from you.

Just like how the christians were really nice to their newly conquered people. Same thing.

We're talking about RIGHT NOW.

There are muslims who want to wipe Israel off the map...I guess you forgot the 7 day war in the 60s, right?

In fact I met a CHRISTIANPalestinianover the summer. There are like 300k or so of them in the world and he HATES israel. In fact he calls it palestine. Won't even use the "I" word.

So where does that leave you?

Judaism isn't apposed to zionism...its pretty much written into the code of seeking the promised land. Now, are there some jews against zionism? Yes. There are plenty. But don't make these asinine blanket statements you've grown accustomed to.

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Again, no they wouldn't. You're trying to refute 1400 years of evidence with your uneducated guesses at what you THINK would happen.

Your against the Israeli occupation. That's nice, so am I. The vast majority of Palestinians are Muslims, so how again am I "part of the problem" ?

And you're doing the same using 1400 years to assume what will happen.

Muslims back then aren't the same as muslims today.

Things change. Politics and technology change.

Religion isn't the same beast it used to be.

BTW, to answer your point, you say the Quran is only the result of one translation...so why did you forget to tell me about the guy who early on burned all the other texts and only wanted to keep his version on file? Did you think I wouldn't learn about that either? Keep trying to play me.

 

[tkthafm]

The burden of proof required to convict someone of an offence in an Islamic Court is far higher than in Britain. The court does not accept circumstantial evidence as a legal proof, and only trustworthy witnesses, whether Muslim or non-Muslim are allowed to give testimony. Many miscarriages of justice have occurred in Britain due to flawed forensic evidence (Birmingham six trial) or due to convicted criminals giving testimony. Confessions are investigated to ensure they were not extracted under duress or torture. Britain currently allows evidence obtained through torture in foreign countries, as evidence in special terrorism trials.

The Presumption of Innocence exists in an Islamic Court and the onus is on the plaintiff to provide the evidence. This legal principle cannot be overturned by the government of the day, as Tony Blair is trying to do by introducing more summary offences. Narrated in the hadith book by Al-Baihaqqi, the Prophet Muhammad (saw) said "It is the plaintiff who should provide the evidence, and the oath is due on the one who disapprovesâ€

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

I'm sure a small minority/criminals would, just as they oppress fellow Muslims. The point is the vast majority who follow Islamic law would not because doing so would violate Islam. They would prosecute those who violated Jewish rights (many famous cases of this in Islamic history... sadly you are completely ignorant and uneducated on the matter) This is backed by hundreds of years of evidence. You're the delusional one here... you ignore the fact that Muslims had Jews living in peace under their rule with no problem for centuries because it doesn't fit your twisted view of Muslims being bloodthirsty animals. There was never a system of apartheid instituted against the Jews by Muslims the way "secular" "democratic" Israel has done against the Palestinians.

You're a good Muslim, unfortunately there is a significant population out there who use your Koran for HATE!!!!
If Muslims could exterminate Jews they WOULD!!!! The Nile is not a river in Egypt.

LOL @ me being delusional for saying a Muslim would oppress a Jew if they could....aite man whatever you say

You know who you are, you're like the mother of a serial killer who can't believe her son is capable of murder. It's so sad and hilarious

 

[tkthafm]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by tkthafm

I'm sure a small minority/criminals would, just as they oppress fellow Muslims. The point is the vast majority who follow Islamic law would not because doing so would violate Islam. They would prosecute those who violated Jewish rights (many famous cases of this in Islamic history... sadly you are completely ignorant and uneducated on the matter) This is backed by hundreds of years of evidence. You're the delusional one here... you ignore the fact that Muslims had Jews living in peace under their rule with no problem for centuries because it doesn't fit your twisted view of Muslims being bloodthirsty animals. There was never a system of apartheid instituted against the Jews by Muslims the way "secular" "democratic" Israel has done against the Palestinians.

You're a good Muslim, unfortunately there is a significant population out there who use your Koran for HATE!!!!
If Muslims could exterminate Jews they WOULD!!!! The Nile is not a river in Egypt.

LOL @ me being delusional for saying a Muslim would oppress a Jew if they could....aite man whatever you say

You know who you are, you're like the mother of a serial killer who can't believe her son is capable of murder. It's so sad and hilarious

Really ? This is incredibly offensive.  
The more accurate analogy is I'm being profiled as a mass murdering serial killer when all evidence contradicts this.

They've had plenty of chances in the past. As stated, those that would violate Jewish rights would be prosecuted. I'm not making this up, this is in Islamic law. 

Your ignorance has let the media lies brainwash you. Your overzealous hate of religion/generalization of Islam has blinded you. You're a lost cause.

 

[mo matik]

Context matters. The Qur'an TELLS us that context matters because it tells us over and over to interpret and contemplate over the verses and their meaning.

The Qur'an is a guide for humanity since it's revelation, so it also had to apply to those times and shortly after then. So Islamically, once you hit puberty marriage is permissible, because it HAD to be at that time. Now today with the advancement of medical sciences, early marriage is no longer necessary. You don't HAVE to be grow up like you once had to; we have that luxury. Not all societies had that and so Islam accommodates that. Don't forget that Romeo and Juliet is a story about 11 year olds. No where does it say that you HAVE to get married at that age. Show me a legitimate Islamic scholar that would say such a thing.

In Islam, just as God gave us the Qur'an, He also gave us the faculties to understand the what and why. To neglect that would be to neglect your own God given faculties of understanding. The very faculties He tells us to use constantly throughout the Qur'an.

 

[newbuck]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Because when the Islamic Caliphates ruled Jews/Christians lived under apartheid conditions.

Oh right, they didn't.

Lololololol. This is too good.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

Context matters. The Qur'an TELLS us that context matters because it tells us over and over to interpret and contemplate over the verses and their meaning.

Infallible god with final deliverance of words delivers book with different meanings. 

Allah wasn't telling us to kill infidels...he just meant that for 20 years, then stop. 

He didn't mean not to eat seafood he just meant that for now... 

The Qur'an is a guide for humanity since it's revelation, so it also had to apply to those times and shortly after then.

Except the Vedas, Bible, Torah, Kojiki, Sanwu Liji, or the Eddas.

So Islamically, once you hit puberty marriage is permissible, because it HAD to be at that time.

Except in every modern country, its underaged and immoral because of what we know about sex abuse and being pressured by grown men with pedophiliac desires.

Now today with the advancement of medical sciences, early marriage is no longer necessary.

It was never necessary in the first place. Screwing little girls doesn't get you much respect over the course of history.

You don't HAVE to be grow up like you once had to; we have that luxury.

Infallible god creates book with final meaning...and then you try to read it it differently, again.

Not all societies had that and so Islam accommodates that.

It doesn't say this in your quran.
You made this up.

Don't forget that Romeo and Juliet is a story about 11 year olds.

And?

No where does it say that you HAVE to get married at that age. Show me a legitimate Islamic scholar that would say such a thing.

How old was Mohammed's wife, Aisha?
Nine?

Oh ok. 

But now when they follow the example of their prophet, now its "well you dont HAVE to do that"... 

Again, moving the goal-posts.

In Islam, just as God gave us the Qur'an, He also gave us the faculties to understand the what and why.

You mean to abstractly derive other meanings from literal words to conclusions that are NOT supported by the text?
Sure.

To neglect that would be to neglect your own God given faculties of understanding.

Or the intellectual consistency and honesty to remain faithful to the literal words of your "infallible" holy book

The very faculties He tells us to use constantly throughout the Qur'an.

Of course...the same groups of religious people who reject evolution seem to manage to "naturally select" which doctrines they will follow in their "infallible" holy book and evolve to adopt a new understanding of "ultimate" law from "god"

I dare you to live the way the Quran tells you to, RIGHT NOW. 

... You'll be locked up so fast... 

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by tkthafm

I'm sure a small minority/criminals would, just as they oppress fellow Muslims. The point is the vast majority who follow Islamic law would not because doing so would violate Islam. They would prosecute those who violated Jewish rights (many famous cases of this in Islamic history... sadly you are completely ignorant and uneducated on the matter) This is backed by hundreds of years of evidence. You're the delusional one here... you ignore the fact that Muslims had Jews living in peace under their rule with no problem for centuries because it doesn't fit your twisted view of Muslims being bloodthirsty animals. There was never a system of apartheid instituted against the Jews by Muslims the way "secular" "democratic" Israel has done against the Palestinians.

You're a good Muslim, unfortunately there is a significant population out there who use your Koran for HATE!!!!
If Muslims could exterminate Jews they WOULD!!!! The Nile is not a river in Egypt.

LOL @ me being delusional for saying a Muslim would oppress a Jew if they could....aite man whatever you say

You know who you are, you're like the mother of a serial killer who can't believe her son is capable of murder. It's so sad and hilarious

Really ? This is incredibly offensive.  
The more accurate analogy is I'm being profiled as a mass murdering serial killer when all evidence contradicts this.

They've had plenty of chances in the past. As stated, those that would violate Jewish rights would be prosecuted. I'm not making this up, this is in Islamic law. 

Your ignorance has let the media lies brainwash you. Your overzealous hate of religion/generalization of Islam has blinded you. You're a lost cause.

The media? I don't watch the news....I actually get called out for it often, if the world ended today I wouldn't know it

I don't "HATE" Islam, I'm contending that Islam isn't any better than other religions. Many many many Muslims use your poetic book for worship for hate, how the hell are you going to sit there and deny it

Muslims would do to Jews in a second what Jews do to Palestinians. "Hate" is too strong a word for how I feel about religion. 

Unrelated, recently this lady I know who is going to school for "Divinity" didn't know that Christians, Jews and Muslims worship the same God. 

 

 

[mo matik]

I'm not going to do this all over again. You don't actually respond to my argument by responding to each sentence individually with snide remarks and baseless accusations.

What you communicate to me is your incapacity of forming a single coherent argument against mine.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

I'm not going to do this all over again. You don't actually respond to my argument by responding to each sentence individually with snide remarks and baseless accusations.

What you communicate to me is your incapacity of forming a single coherent argument against mine.

If you're referring to Silly I fail to see how any of his arguments are incoherent
BDW I love your avy......Hadez

The Gods of the Ancients>>>>>

 

[tkthafm]

I didn't deny it. I acknowledged it and said it would be dealt with by the majority. Do you feel the MAJORITY of Muslims would be fine with another holocaust ? They wouldn't take any steps to stop it ?�

This gets back to the question of why terrorism exists in the first place. Is it really due to verses taken out of context ? Or anger at Israeli policies ?

 

[frostythepoptart]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by nawlinsjunkie

Let's say I believe that the Quran, Bible, etc. WERE written by God,are the direct words of God, etc. Do you really think that over hundreds of years, no one changed anything in their texts to match their agendas at the time? So whether those passages in the Quran are true, translated properly, etc or not, it doesn't matter. I went to a private Catholic (although very liberal) high school, and even my religion professors taught us not to take the Bible at face value because of countless corrupt rulers changing passages to push their own agendas \or even by well-meaning people who wanted to address the issues that affected their society.

Anyways, I'm not religious, but I don't hate the idea of religion. I believe that even if the concept seems silly to me, at their cores, all religions are good and try to influence their followers in a positive way. However, I DETEST religious people who try to convert people of other faiths or use their faith to influence things that should be completely separate (politics, medicine, etc.). Religion should NOT be something that shapes modern society.

QFT I think Dr Seuss is poetic in the way tkthafm finds the Koran poetic, but you don't see me turning it into unjust laws that keep women oppressed and promotes violence against other religious beliefs. People need to keep their damn fairy tails out of politics.

yo it kills me that atheists can be so active in religion. I never understand why one would care so much.That your just drawn like moth to a flame if someone says God your heart rate jumps up and you go with the same arguments over and over. Aside from this the lack of respect is crazy. You don't believe who cares. but then you go out of your way to compare religion to dr. seuss, santa clause, etc. The truth is you don't believe in Santa Clause you just want to be as disrespectful as possible and compare religion to things that are a joke. Again, why? Grow up.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by frostythepoptart

AntonLaVey wrote:

---

nawlinsjunkie wrote:

---

Let's say I believe that the Quran, Bible, etc. WERE written by God,are the direct words of God, etc. Do you really think that over hundreds of years, no one changed anything in their texts to match their agendas at the time? So whether those passages in the Quran are true, translated properly, etc or not, it doesn't matter. I went to a private Catholic (although very liberal) high school, and even my religion professors taught us not to take the Bible at face value because of countless corrupt rulers changing passages to push their own agendas \or even by well-meaning people who wanted to address the issues that affected their society.

Anyways, I'm not religious, but I don't hate the idea of religion. I believe that even if the concept seems silly to me, at their cores, all religions are good and try to influence their followers in a positive way. However, I DETEST religious people who try to convert people of other faiths or use their faith to influence things that should be completely separate (politics, medicine, etc.). Religion should NOT be something that shapes modern society.




QFT I think Dr Seuss is poetic in the way tkthafm finds the Koran poetic, but you don't see me turning it into unjust laws that keep women oppressed and promotes violence against other religious beliefs. People need to keep their damn fairy tails out of politics.

yo it kills me that atheists can be so active in religion. I never understand why one would care so much.That your just drawn like moth to a flame if someone says God your heart rate jumps up and you go with the same arguments over and over. Aside from this the lack of respect is crazy. You don't believe who cares. but then you go out of your way to compare religion to dr. seuss, santa clause, etc. The truth is you don't believe in Santa Clause you just want to be as disrespectful as possible and compare religion to things that are a joke. Again, why? Grow up.



�






Nah, you're right. Your religion and your worship to a wooden "T" and some long-haired stone age hippie doesn't impact me AT ALL.

You want respect? Respect my non-belief and keep it to yourself and the rest of your cult.
















on another note:

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by frostythepoptart

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by nawlinsjunkie

Let's say I believe that the Quran, Bible, etc. WERE written by God,are the direct words of God, etc. Do you really think that over hundreds of years, no one changed anything in their texts to match their agendas at the time? So whether those passages in the Quran are true, translated properly, etc or not, it doesn't matter. I went to a private Catholic (although very liberal) high school, and even my religion professors taught us not to take the Bible at face value because of countless corrupt rulers changing passages to push their own agendas \or even by well-meaning people who wanted to address the issues that affected their society.

Anyways, I'm not religious, but I don't hate the idea of religion. I believe that even if the concept seems silly to me, at their cores, all religions are good and try to influence their followers in a positive way. However, I DETEST religious people who try to convert people of other faiths or use their faith to influence things that should be completely separate (politics, medicine, etc.). Religion should NOT be something that shapes modern society.

QFT I think Dr Seuss is poetic in the way tkthafm finds the Koran poetic, but you don't see me turning it into unjust laws that keep women oppressed and promotes violence against other religious beliefs. People need to keep their damn fairy tails out of politics.

yo it kills me that atheists can be so active in religion. I never understand why one would care so much.That your just drawn like moth to a flame if someone says God your heart rate jumps up and you go with the same arguments over and over. Aside from this the lack of respect is crazy. You don't believe who cares. but then you go out of your way to compare religion to dr. seuss, santa clause, etc. The truth is you don't believe in Santa Clause you just want to be as disrespectful as possible and compare religion to things that are a joke. Again, why? Grow up.

I'm not an atheist, I actively worship and meditate to Satan, Osun and Ra. No joke but none of it affects anyone.

 

[Gill Baka Esq. LLC.]

Sillyputty you need to fall back son...I understand your need to voice your opinion on religion in threads that don't even start off being religious along with the bolded texts and the pics on top of pics from atheism.com but calling a religion a cult....stopit5.