Is Peyton Manning the most overrated qb of all time?

[ravagebx]

@tyisny  Peyton was supposed to win this game? According to who?

 

[jjs07]

To be clear, I never stated I thought they were the best defense ever. Just the best defense I've ever seen. And I wasn't even really referring to the entire season, just this one game. That game last night was the single best defensive effort I've ever witnessed in a playoff game. It was completely lights out football. Overall they will be looked at as one of the best for certain, but you place that one game in a bubble and there's not enough hyperbole that can be used to describe it. Simply dominant. I know a few people have mentioned that other teams were able to score more on Seattle in other games but the point I was trying to make is that no one was doing jack against the Seattle that showed up last night. That was their peak.

Yes it's been said but I don't know if the majority of folks, myself included, ever truly believed it. It's always been kind of a mantra for coaches that fans and analysts just repeat. Think about it like this, if you had to choose between your team being the #1 offense in the league, or the #1 defense in the league, I feel like most would go for offense. Especially in this day in age. But after last night, man I'm taking a dominant defense from hereon out lol. I just feel like this cemented the phrase as a truth.


Agreed with JJ. Had a feeling Seattle would win but they really exceeded my expectations. YAC was not happening last night, if you could even get your hands on the ball without getting whalloped. I wouldn't be surprised to see a rematch next year.

Fair to say that the two best teams in the NFL were Seattle and SF? I think it would have been a similar result had the 49ers played the Broncos as well....

 

[trynafeelmink]

According to the people who claimed that this win would solidify him as one of the top 3 if not #1 QB ever. and that the way this Broncos offense was moving he would find a way to win.

But it's not about a mere loss for me it's about him playing HORRID despite having all of this "Talent". I agree that the Seahawks Defense was great, but that same Great defense played 18 other games and i don't think any of those games were as lobsided as this one.

We have saw the seahawks lose correct? We have saw other QB's (Not even elite offenses) move the ball on them correct?

so it's only fitting to me that someone who is suppose to be the best at their position and had been producing record breaking performances against Defenses all year would find a way to atleast give his team a fighting chance. He got punched in the mouth as soon as the bell rang and never through his hands back up.

I'm literally seeing people say Peyton didn't have a bad game... He had a QBR rating of 27.1 had three turnovers... and didn't put together one singular good drive the entire game ... NOT ONE.

We could argue that other QB's wouldn't have won but i'm not gonna go along with the idea that any QB playing last night would have had the kind of game Peyton had. He was off all night and could have easily had 3-4 picks if seattle ain't drop some, it's even worst on his end because we KNOW that dude is ELITE at reading a defense and re routing people and none of it worked at all.

He didn't lose this bad simply because of the defense of the hawks, he lost because for the hundreth time in his career he got into a big game and severely underperformed.

 

[Tigron]

Fair to say that the two best teams in the NFL were Seattle and SF? I think it would have been a similar result had any of the top 7 NFC teams played the Broncos as well....

FTFY

Broncs were blessed with one of the easiest schedules I've seen in recent memory. It took 8 weeks for them to play a team that wasn't terrible.

 

[ravagebx]

@JJs07  I dunno bout that man. San Fran's defense was also very good but I don't think they show up the way Seattle did.

@tyisny  I'm just going to simply disagree with all that. We must've watched two different games.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Fair to say that the two best teams in the NFL were Seattle and SF? I think it would have been a similar result had any of the top 7 NFC teams played the Broncos as well....

FTFY
Broncs were blessed with one of the easiest schedules I've seen in recent memory. It took 8 weeks for them to play a team that wasn't terrible.

The whole AFC was down this year. I can't think of a single team that could have won against that Seattle defense last night. They may have mustered more than 8 points, but really... San Diego? New England w/ all those injuries? Cincy w/ Andy Dalton? Indy?

Every team in the AFC had flaws... some of them were bigger than others. We saw the Broncos demolish the AFC (and the NFC East, but they're just as bad) and expected them to do work in the SB. Seattle was just... better. Rattled Peyton early, forced him into stupid mistakes, and the rest is history.

 

[trynafeelmink]

@JJs07
 I dunno bout that man. San Fran's defense was also very good but I don't think they show up the way Seattle did.

@tyisny
 I'm just going to simply disagree with all that. We must've watched two different games.

So your telling me Peyton manning didn't have a bad game yesterday? he literally had one of the worst statistical games in SB history, was throwing into triple coverage, went from a high powered offense to throwing 2-3 yard flats all game yet somehow this sin't a bad game it's all on the seahawks.

 

[flyeed]

Man any thread that's about high profile teams/players or trending topics turns into trash in S&T

 

[jjs07]

@JJs07
 I dunno bout that man. San Fran's defense was also very good but I don't think they show up the way Seattle did.

@tyisny
 I'm just going to simply disagree with all that. We must've watched two different games.

I think the SF defense has been a top-5 unit for the past couple of seasons...I honestly think they would have given Peyton and the Broncos fits. As a matter of fact, I think if you put either SF/Carolina in the SB vs. the Broncos, it would have been a lopsided score.

 

[ravagebx]

 

@JJs07
 I dunno bout that man. San Fran's defense was also very good but I don't think they show up the way Seattle did.

@tyisny
 I'm just going to simply disagree with all that. We must've watched two different games.

So your telling me Peyton manning didn't have a bad game yesterday? he literally had one of the worst statistical games in SB history, was throwing into triple coverage, went from a high powered offense to throwing 2-3 yard flats all game yet somehow this sin't a bad game it's all on the seahawks.

According to what, QBR? Which doesn't take into account anything other than the QB's stats. QBR doesn't care whose fault a turnover was. QBR doesn't care if your run game is established or not. QBR doesn't care if your receivers are getting YAC. It's a rigid formula meant only to be a cursory look at a QB's performance. It doesn't deal with details. And apparently neither do you.

Throwing into coverage and throwing into the flats are signs of excellent defense. Denver was forced to take what Seattle was giving them. You're making it sound like there were open guys out there and he was looking them off or missing them and that's simply not the case. Every replay I saw showed superb coverage.

 

[trynafeelmink]

According to what, QBR? Which doesn't take into account anything other than the QB's stats. QBR doesn't care whose fault a turnover was. QBR doesn't care if your run game is established or not. QBR doesn't care if your receivers are getting YAC. It's a rigid formula meant only to be a cursory look at a QB's performance. It doesn't deal with details. And apparently neither do you.

Throwing into coverage and throwing into the flats are signs of excellent defense. Denver was forced to take what Seattle was giving them. You're making it sound like there were open guys out there and he was looking them off or missing them and that's simply not the case. Every replay I saw showed superb coverage.

so your telling me that the same Peyton manning that has been able to find cracks in every defense through the season couldn't find anything in that Seahawks defense they suddenly just became a 100% mistake free defense yesterday.

That first Interception wasn't thrown into the area of of three waiting seahawks despite a miss communication btwn him and the reciever?
He couldn't have just taken the sack on the second interception instead of flinging it in the air?
Peyton has never been a check down guy and his team wasn't having success with it yesterday so instead of trying to challenge them deep you quit on your plan and keep throwing for meaningless yards? down 20+


If Seattle Defense completely shutdown all QB's this year and gave no Team opportunities to score i would agree but i have saw teams attack them and be successful with much less talent.

He had a horrible game because the opposing defense made it difficult for him cool, that doesn't mean you escape blame because the other team made it difficult for you especially when your being considered as one of the best ever and you did NOTHING to help your team.

The seahawks made it difficult for all QB's they played this season.... some of those QB's found a way to atleast complete some big plays, extend some plays, find a weak matchup ...... but Peyton rolls into town on two weeks prep time, with one of the best offenses in history and suddenly Seattle has no weakness, nothing opened up at all, They shut the almighty Peyton manning down and they went from being a great defense to suddenly being discussed as the greatest defense EVER ?

 

[cedric ceballos]

I don't think people are understanding why people are claiming Peyton is overrated. He's easily a HOF but that's not where the talk ends with him i have come across dozens of people who have claimed that's he's the best EVER

Not just top 10
Not just top 5
not even top 3, just the best ever under no circumstance should he be mentioned in that vein when he's CONSISTENTLY lost games he was suppose to win and looked horrible in the losses.

You can't claim someone is the best at what they do when in the biggest moments that person under performs at what they have excelled at in smaller moments. As long as he's mentioned in the greatest of the greatest convo he's overated.

After last night along with his numerous terrible games in the playoffs how can anyone sit here and say he's the best because i guarantee you if they needed a QB for one game he's not top 5 on the list.

Agreed spot on with all of this.

 

[SoleByThePound]

But it's not a different story. He lost the game and it all falls on Tom Brady. If he had only done a little more, they might have gone 19-0...

Good QBs find a way to win. Losing to the NFL interception leader in two Super Bowls falls 100% on Tom Brady. If he was as good as advertised, he would have propelled his team to victory.

Instead, they floundered in defeat, and we're going on a decade with zero Patriots hardware.

Damn shame, too. He coulda been something special.

The Broncos had losses this season. Everyone knew they had flaws.

That 2007 Patriots team was supposed to be the greatest ever... breaking records... 16-0, then 17-0, then 18-0...

Then this guy showed up:


...put Tom Brady over his knee, and spanked him like the ***** he is.

0-2 in Super Bowls against the NFL interception leader.

Forget Spygate, more like Chokegate.

Quality trolling with these Brady comments.

Chester gives Shoes a run for his money in the troll department with all of this Patriots/Brady slander.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Anybody that says Peyton didn't have a bad game is flat out lying. That INT he threw to Cam was UGLY. Denver as a entire team got bullied. As soon as the center snapped the ball over Peytons head Seattle smelled blood and Denver folded. Cam knocked the mess outta D Thomas and Thomas was decent but everybody played scared after that. The O line looked soft, the TD they gave to start the half... It was just old fashion beat down. Peyton played like garbage but there were a lot of plays that had nothing to do with him that contributed to this beat down. The whole team got bullied. That was definitely the best defensive performance I've ever seen.


As far as Peyton being overrated I don't see it. It's too many people that say "He chokes in big games" for him to be overrated.

 

[maxelite]

SF doesn't have the pass rush / secondary that Seattle has IMO.

Comparing the SF pass rush to Seattle pass rush is splitting hairs.

Seattle def has the edge in the secondary though.

 

[nooera]

This dude Chester is a clown.

Roots for the Colts. Roots for the Niners. Roots for the Broncos.

But the team he talks about most is the Patriots.

Chesters top 2 Qbs of all time are Marino and Kurt ******g Warner. His QB list sucks and so do 90% of his posts.

Good game Peyton

 

[ravagebx]

 

According to what, QBR? Which doesn't take into account anything other than the QB's stats. QBR doesn't care whose fault a turnover was. QBR doesn't care if your run game is established or not. QBR doesn't care if your receivers are getting YAC. It's a rigid formula meant only to be a cursory look at a QB's performance. It doesn't deal with details. And apparently neither do you.

Throwing into coverage and throwing into the flats are signs of excellent defense. Denver was forced to take what Seattle was giving them. You're making it sound like there were open guys out there and he was looking them off or missing them and that's simply not the case. Every replay I saw showed superb coverage.

so your telling me that the same Peyton manning that has been able to find cracks in every defense through the season couldn't find anything in that Seahawks defense they suddenly just became a 100% mistake free defense yesterday.

That first Interception wasn't thrown into the area of of three waiting seahawks despite a miss communication btwn him and the reciever?
He couldn't have just taken the sack on the second interception instead of flinging it in the air?
Peyton has never been a check down guy and his team wasn't having success with it yesterday so instead of trying to challenge them deep you quit on your plan and keep throwing for meaningless yards? down 20+


If Seattle Defense completely shutdown all QB's this year and gave no Team opportunities to score i would agree but i have saw teams attack them and be successful with much less talent.

He had a horrible game because the opposing defense made it difficult for him cool, that doesn't mean you escape blame because the other team made it difficult for you especially when your being considered as one of the best ever and you did NOTHING to help your team.

The seahawks made it difficult for all QB's they played this season.... some of those QB's found a way to atleast complete some big plays, extend some plays, find a weak matchup ...... but Peyton rolls into town on two weeks prep time, with one of the best offenses in history and suddenly Seattle has no weakness, nothing opened up at all, They shut the almighty Peyton manning down and they went from being a great defense to suddenly being discussed as the greatest defense EVER ?

100%, no but damn near. Which is why we're sitting here discussing whether they were potentially one of the best defenses of all time. They WERE that good and you aren't giving them their proper credit. Stop talking about other teams and stop talking about other games. We're talking about last night, and last night they were nearly flawless. "Challenging" the best secondary in the league, who are sitting back waiting for the pass, wasn't going to help anything. Denver had 27, count em, TWENTY SEVEN rushing yards. A dead rushing game against the best secondary in the league is a recipe for disaster every time.

Look no one is saying Peyton couldn't have played better. It's just not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. Like, at all. That first interception was on him. Looked high and the receiver broke the route. The second pick he got hit as he released. He didn't "fling it in the air." The pass rush got home. Credit Seattle. That's the point of this whole conversation. You aren't crediting Seattle for the phenomenal, once in a generation game they played last night. You may never see defense that good again in the Superbowl in your lifetime.

 

[SoleByThePound]

This dude Chester is a clown.

Roots for the Colts. Roots for the Niners. Roots for the Broncos.

But the team he talks about most is the Patriots.

Chesters top 2 Qbs of all time are Marino and Kurt ******g Warner. His QB list sucks and so do 90% of his posts.

Good game Peyton

 

[Chester McFloppy]

His QB list sucks and so do 90% of his posts.

If only I had quality posts like:

Plus, Brady slays a super model who makes more paper than him.

AR slays men. And puts them on the payroll . Not that theres anything wrong with that.

When comparing Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady, maybe I'd be more respected around these parts.

 

[trynafeelmink]

100%, no but damn near. Which is why we're sitting here discussing whether they were potentially one of the best defenses of all time. They WERE that good and you aren't giving them their proper credit. Stop talking about other teams and stop talking about other games. We're talking about last night, and last night they were nearly flawless. "Challenging" the best secondary in the league, who are sitting back waiting for the pass, wasn't going to help anything. Denver had 27, count em, TWENTY SEVEN rushing yards. A dead rushing game against the best secondary in the league is a recipe for disaster every time.

Look no one is saying Peyton couldn't have played better. It's just not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. Like, at all. That first interception was on him. Looked high and the receiver broke the route. The second pick he got hit as he released. He didn't "fling it in the air." The pass rush got home. Credit Seattle. That's the point of this whole conversation. You aren't crediting Seattle for the phenomenal, once in a generation game they played last night. You may never see defense that good again in the Superbowl in your lifetime.

well this is where our opinions differ on this subject because while i agree that this defense played GREAT last night they had shown nothing in the regular season that put them anywhere past an elite defense. There wasn't a peep from anyone naming them one of the GOATS. Then they meet Peyton Manning on the big stage and make that offense look hilariously bad in the superbowl.

So basically what i'm saying is that Peyton inability to make plays along with bad O-line play made this defense seem better than they were. I believe their certainly elite and the best in the L right now but i don't think they are somehow historically great but the severe under performance from one of the "Greats" has boosted their credibility.

 

[100027]

well this is where our opinions differ on this subject because while i agree that this defense played GREAT last night they had shown nothing in the regular season that put them anywhere past an elite defense. There wasn't a peep from anyone naming them one of the GOATS. Then they meet Peyton Manning on the big stage and make that offense look hilariously bad in the superbowl.

So basically what i'm saying is that Peyton inability to make plays along with bad O-line play made this defense seem better than they were. I believe their certainly elite and the best in the L right now but i don't think they are somehow historically great but the severe under performance from one of the "Greats" has boosted their credibility.

The NYTimes did a statistical projection during the playoffs that rated this one of the 5 best pass defenses of the last 25 years. You should see football outsiders as well.

 

[ravagebx]

I can respect that stance but I can only trust what my eyes saw. They were EVERYWHERE on that field last night. No broken coverages, no missed tackles, none of that. The one TD Denver got came when Seattle let up a little towards the end of the 3rd and still everything basically happened underneath. And yes I'll agree that this GOAT talk didn't come till later but most of that is b/c Seattle flew under the radar. We all knew they were good. Some thought they were great. Last night, they proved they were elite.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

The Seahawks had the entire offense shook, from the o-line, to Peyton, to the receivers. Peyton had the happy feet going and threw terrible picks, the o-line couldn't block for ****, and the DBs were putting hands on those receivers. Bay Bay was getting NADA after the catch. The speed in which Seattle closes is ridiculous. Those screens were the Broncos bread and butter during the regular season... 5, 7, 10+ yard chunks time after time. Seahawks closed that **** down.

Speaking of shut down, anyone seen Eric Decker? Said it earlier this season: bump Decker at the line and put a good CB on him... dude vanishes. He's $$$ in the endzone, but the only reason he put up the stats he does is the offense. Someone is gonna sign dude to a big deal and be disappointed. I'll eat crow if he proves me wrong... I just don't see it.

 

[dmxfury]

If only I had quality posts like:
When comparing Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady, maybe I'd be more respected around these parts.

That was a horrible post


Time is starting to wear on our favorite QBs (well most of our favorites)

 

[ravagebx]

Seattle closing on those screens was awesome to watch. Daylight disappeared faster than wintertime.