Islamic Extremist have the entire world scared.

[ekon one]

Originally Posted by sheistbugz

south park > Muslims

qft

 

[ekon one]

Originally Posted by sheistbugz

south park > Muslims

qft

 

[daytona 5000]

I think people have the right to say whatever they feel.

Just be ready to deal with the consequences of your actions.

 

[omgitswes]

I really want to say something regarding to the south park episode.
but I can't wrap my head around the pure ignorance in this thread to come up with a valid reply....so this will have to do

extremely foul for bashing religion. and it always seems that people who don't believe in any sort of religion always complains about something trying to feed religion down their throat and yet they are really the ones who call people idiots for having faith and yeahhh.

 

[tree4twenty]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

I didn't watch the episode.  I'll do a full reply after I do. In the meantime, I'd like to clarify that regardless of how offensive the episode was, it's not a freedom of speech issue.

Here is the thing about freedom of speech; it doesn't really exist.

In every civilization, there are certain topics that will always beconsidered taboo. The person will suffer either legally or socially.

For example, in America, one cannot say anything racist, anti semetic,homophobic, or misogynistic to state a few, without suffering.Look at what happened to Mel Gibson, look at what happenedto Kramer. Tim Hardaway is another example.  All these guys suffered enormousscrutiny from the publicAND the media.Paul Shirley lost his job for his opinion on Haiti.

Europe is even worse, for there are laws in place againstanti-Semetism. Robert Faurisson, a college professor and respectedhistorian, denied the holocaustever happened, and went under such scrutiny that he was tried in acourt of law, he lost his job, and he will always be associated withthat.
David Irving was another man who did not even question theholocaust, but rather questioned the official number of deaths, and hewent to jail for 4 years forhis scholarly beliefs.

You are going to tell me that Muslims should respect offensive views in the name of Freedom of Speech, when there is obviously adouble standard?  Like I said, there is a line in every civilization that you cannot cross without suffering scrutiny.  In the Muslim society, it just so happens that offensive depictions of the Prophet are beyond that line. I could go on and on, but understand thatthere is no such thing as TRUE Freedom of Speech, and that is really how itshould be.  So don't get surprised if Muslims are offended, they SHOULD be offended. 

Would anyone pull the freedom of speech card if black people got angry over a blatantly racist depiction?  What about when Mel Gibson had his anti-Semetic remarks?  Did anyone stand up and say "Mel Gibson has a right to say what he wants. It's freedom of speech.  Get over it."  What about when Paul Shirley lost his job as a writer?  I'm sure the man will never get a job as a writer ever again.  Did anyone argue on the basis of freedom of speech then?

You're talking about people losing their job and serving jail time. We are talking about death threats from people that will shoot you 8 times and then decapitate you.....

Yeah, losing your job and losing your head are almost the same..

 

[wooly willy]

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by Cz7

To think Christianity and Islam at are not at odds and are some how compatible is utter nonsense. They agree on many moral doctrines mostly because islam is largely a plagarism of the bible.

The disagree on the fundamental aspect of attaining salvation, which central to both religions. Christians say its ONLY through Jesus Christ. Muslims say its only through the teachings of Muhammad. They reject the divinity of christ. Therefore the two are fundamentally at odds. According to the bible muslims will not enter heaven, and vice versa for the muslims. This is what you have to believe if you call yourself a true muslim or christian.

BUT that is NOT what this post is about at all.

Stop right there. Its clear now that OP really has no idea what he's talking about

yet you cite no evidence to the contrary

Am I the one that needs to cite evidence or are you the one that needs to do so. It's clear that anyone with any knowledge of Christianity and Islam would agree that Islam is faaaaaar from a simple "plagiarism" of the Bible. From doctrine, to the nature of God to the nature of certain Biblical figures, I could literally write a book on how Islam cannot even be a "plagiarism" of the Bible even if Muslims claimed it to be (which they don't). You cite your evidence and I'll be more than happy to show you where you erred. If you cannot, then I'll be happy to give you a quick intro to Islam and Christianity after I get off work

 

[tree4twenty]

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

I didn't watch the episode.  I'll do a full reply after I do. In the meantime, I'd like to clarify that regardless of how offensive the episode was, it's not a freedom of speech issue.

Here is the thing about freedom of speech; it doesn't really exist.

In every civilization, there are certain topics that will always be considered taboo. The person will suffer either legally or socially.

For example, in America, one cannot say anything racist, anti semetic, homophobic, or misogynistic to state a few, without suffering. Look at what happened to Mel Gibson, look at what happened to Kramer. Tim Hardaway is another example.  All these guys suffered enormous scrutiny from the public AND the media. Paul Shirley lost his job for his opinion on Haiti.

Europe is even worse, for there are laws in place against anti-Semetism. Robert Faurisson, a college professor and respected historian, denied the holocaust ever happened, and went under such scrutiny that he was tried in a court of law, he lost his job, and he will always be associated with that.
David Irving was another man who did not even question the holocaust, but rather questioned the official number of deaths, and he went to jail for 4 years for his scholarly beliefs.

You are going to tell me that Muslims should respect offensive views in the name of Freedom of Speech, when there is obviously a double standard?  Like I said, there is a line in every civilization that you cannot cross without suffering scrutiny.  In the Muslim society, it just so happens that offensive depictions of the Prophet are beyond that line. I could go on and on, but understand that there is no such thing as TRUE Freedom of Speech, and that is really how it should be.  So don't get surprised if Muslims are offended, they SHOULD be offended. 

Would anyone pull the freedom of speech card if black people got angry over a blatantly racist depiction?  What about when Mel Gibson had his anti-Semetic remarks?  Did anyone stand up and say "Mel Gibson has a right to say what he wants. It's freedom of speech.  Get over it."  What about when Paul Shirley lost his job as a writer?  I'm sure the man will never get a job as a writer ever again.  Did anyone argue on the basis of freedom of speech then?

So Ill ask it again, Your reasoning gives islamic extremist the right to KILL someone?

No it doesn't. That is my point. How dare they threaten to take someones lives because they satirize a pitiful religion

Fixed and QFT.

Although I don't believe in any religions, I have to disagree with the pitiful part. Everyone is entitled to their own views and beliefs. Saying that is immature, low blows...

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

I think people have the right to say whatever they feel.

Just be ready to deal with the consequences of your actions.

good thing our legal system thinks differently than you.

 

[mytmouse76]

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

I didn't watch the episode.  I'll do a full reply after I do. In the meantime, I'd like to clarify that regardless of how offensive the episode was, it's not a freedom of speech issue.

Here is the thing about freedom of speech; it doesn't really exist.

In every civilization, there are certain topics that will always be considered taboo. The person will suffer either legally or socially.

For example, in America, one cannot say anything racist, anti semetic, homophobic, or misogynistic to state a few, without suffering. Look at what happened to Mel Gibson, look at what happened to Kramer. Tim Hardaway is another example.  All these guys suffered enormous scrutiny from the public AND the media. Paul Shirley lost his job for his opinion on Haiti.

Europe is even worse, for there are laws in place against anti-Semetism. Robert Faurisson, a college professor and respected historian, denied the holocaust ever happened, and went under such scrutiny that he was tried in a court of law, he lost his job, and he will always be associated with that.
David Irving was another man who did not even question the holocaust, but rather questioned the official number of deaths, and he went to jail for 4 years for his scholarly beliefs.

You are going to tell me that Muslims should respect offensive views in the name of Freedom of Speech, when there is obviously a double standard?  Like I said, there is a line in every civilization that you cannot cross without suffering scrutiny.  In the Muslim society, it just so happens that offensive depictions of the Prophet are beyond that line. I could go on and on, but understand that there is no such thing as TRUE Freedom of Speech, and that is really how it should be.  So don't get surprised if Muslims are offended, they SHOULD be offended. 

Would anyone pull the freedom of speech card if black people got angry over a blatantly racist depiction?  What about when Mel Gibson had his anti-Semetic remarks?  Did anyone stand up and say "Mel Gibson has a right to say what he wants. It's freedom of speech.  Get over it."  What about when Paul Shirley lost his job as a writer?  I'm sure the man will never get a job as a writer ever again.  Did anyone argue on the basis of freedom of speech then?

So Ill ask it again, Your reasoning gives islamic extremist the right to KILL someone?

No it doesn't. That is my point. How dare they threaten to take someones lives because they satirize a pitiful religion

he clearly addressed the freedom of speech arguement that was going on a few pages ago...i don't see how you got he was saying its ok to kill anyone over any type of religious belief...

 

[whywesteppin]

It's pretty simple. If a religion wants to dictate what ITS FOLLOWERS can or cannot do, then that is fine*. But they have no right, no power, no authority, no nothing to say that someone outside their religion should or should not do something. Matt and Trey only have to answer to the law and nothing else.

That's the end of the argument.
* Just to clarify... I'm not saying a religion should be allowed to administer its own set of laws on its followers, like what is done in some countries. I just mean they only have moral jurisdiction (i.e. powerless jurisdiction) over their followers, and the best they can do is kick someone out of their religion, or that person can leave the religion freely.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

South Park are doing the terrorists a favor. Them dudes up in the Afghan mountains are going like this whenever stuff like this happens:

Now they can go to the villages and recruit more young people who are prepared to blow themselves up. Just show them the cartoon and say "This is how the Americans are portraying our prophet" and just like that another suicide bomber at their service.

 

[whywesteppin]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

South Park are doing the terrorists a favor. Them dudes up in the Afghan mountains are going like this whenever stuff like this happens:

Now they can go to the villages and recruit more young people who are prepared to blow themselves up. Just show them the cartoon and say "This is how the Americans are portraying our prophet" and just like that another suicide bomber at their service.

It's a shame that hate and anger is so much easier to conjure up than perspective, a sense of humor, and intelligence.

Whatever... If this comes down to battle lines being drawn on what we stand for, then so be it. I stand for freedom of speech. They stand for being protected from being made fun of so that insecure, over-sensitive adult men don't throw a fit.

Where do the rest of you stand?

 

[wooly willy]

I'm a practicing Muslim and follow all the commandments of my religion to the best of my ability. Do I get upset when people insult the Prophet (PBUH)? Yes I do. Am I going to blow myself up? No. At the end of the day, none of your arguments against the Prophet (PBUH) or Islam will ever hold any merit because all the accusations and claims can easily be refuted. That's one of the features that attracted me to Islam in the first place and as I learned Arabic over the years, the world of 1400+ years of untranslated Islamic works opened up to me which is sad. These works need to be translated in English and other languages as people have been making claims about the Prophet and Islam for centuries but they have always been refuted beyond a doubt. That's why I had to call out OP because he brought up a claim that Islam was a mere copy of Christianity - a claim that's been made since the time of the Prophet (PBUH) and has been refuted to the point that the argument no longer holds merit. With that said, I really do believe the way some Muslims handled this situation was inappropriate. Clearly, Trey and Matt are two clowns looking for a laugh. Even so, I think by threatening death upon them, these people do little more than give the show more publicity than it would have gotten other wise. Did South Park take it too far, not only in the depiction of the Prophet (PBUH) but with the depictions of Buddha and Jesus (PBUH) as well? Yes. Do they deserve to die for it? NO (that's the answer OP is clearly looking for). At the end of the day, if you want to have a respectable discussion about Islam or any religion in general, then dialogue should be encouraged. If you want to just hurl insults and question the intelligence of 1.6 billion people or anyone who believes in religion, then just keep it moving. With that said, I'll quote one of my favorite verses from the Qur'an:

The (faithful) slaves of the Beneficent are they who walk upon theearth modestly, and when the foolish ones address them answer: Peace (25:63)

 

[mo matik]

So Ill ask it again, Your reasoning gives islamic extremist the right to KILL someone?

No it doesn't. That is my point. How dare they threaten to take someones lives because they satirize a pitiful religion


I'm not saying they have the right to violence.  Absolutely not.

I'm just talking about the right to be offended.  The right to ask for an apology.  The right to ask for tolerance in these very sensitive matters.

The slaughter of one's public reputation is different than actuallyadvocating the death of a person. Are you that blinded? Look at all thesituations you posted. The GLBT people did not issue a death threat toTim Hardaway. I can't believe you typed all that up and didn't realizehow foolish you sound.


I'm not saying KILL anyone.  I'm just explaining the thought process.  Look above, I'm explaining why people would be offended, and why there is so much of a taboo in depictions of the Prophet.  Obviously because I'm Muslim though, I must be defending the violence.  Of course.

It's literally the same as me making fun of your mother and saying "freedom of speech, don't shove your values down my throat, I don't care about her."  The feelings many Muslims share about the Prophet is similar to that of their own mother and father.  Truly speaking.  People need to recognize that.  My write up makes more sense than you can obviously comprehend. 

Also, let's be real about what all this is about, ok.  Let's put this in perspective.

1 group with a website warned the creators of Southpark that they risk endangering themselves by airing this episode.  That's it.

Please keep that in mind.

 

[mo matik]

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by Cz7

To think Christianity and Islam at are not at odds and are some how compatible is utter nonsense. They agree on many moral doctrines mostly because islam is largely a plagarism of the bible.

The disagree on the fundamental aspect of attaining salvation, which central to both religions. Christians say its ONLY through Jesus Christ. Muslims say its only through the teachings of Muhammad. They reject the divinity of christ. Therefore the two are fundamentally at odds. According to the bible muslims will not enter heaven, and vice versa for the muslims. This is what you have to believe if you call yourself a true muslim or christian.

BUT that is NOT what this post is about at all.

Stop right there. Its clear now that OP really has no idea what he's talking about

yet you cite no evidence to the contrary

You really need someone to explain this to you?

 

[jawnyquest]

how ridiculously lame..can't say i wasn't expectin' it though.

 

[icykicks79]

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by Wooly Willy

Originally Posted by Cz7

To think Christianity and Islam at are not at odds and are some how compatible is utter nonsense. They agree on many moral doctrines mostly because islam is largely a plagarism of the bible.

The disagree on the fundamental aspect of attaining salvation, which central to both religions. Christians say its ONLY through Jesus Christ. Muslims say its only through the teachings of Muhammad. They reject the divinity of christ. Therefore the two are fundamentally at odds. According to the bible muslims will not enter heaven, and vice versa for the muslims. This is what you have to believe if you call yourself a true muslim or christian.

BUT that is NOT what this post is about at all.

Stop right there. Its clear now that OP really has no idea what he's talking about

yet you cite no evidence to the contrary

word Wooly Willy

 

[sc415]

That's why family guy>>>>>

 

[sc415]

That's why family guy>>>>>

 

[-Red-]

So many people in this thread have such a lack of perspective it's pathetic.

at y'all attempting to impose YOUR (and your society's) values, laws, beliefs, etc. on people living on the other side of the world while condemning their values, laws, beliefs, etc. because you claim that THEY are intolerant.  As an (apparent) atheist, OP, I would expect you to be more well-versed in and aligned with a morally relativistic framework...

at y'all expecting people who live in society's where freedom of speech often does not exist to respect the freedom of speech of people in another country when those people are defiling what the aforementioned consider sacred.  Then y'all are outraged when this happens as if it is unfathomable

at y'all expecting that everyone's sense of humor should be the same as the folks who watch South Park or that people from an entirely different culture should have a full grasp of U.S. satire and should accept it within the context of their society when it was made outside of their society and for people outside of their society to laugh at.

at people making sweeping, false, and unsavory generalizations about Islam and Muslims and then stating that they can't understand why some Muslims become upset with the way that they are generally portrayed.

at the OP's utter disrespect of Islam and other religions...

 

[rockwellfontana]

QFT. I am a member of The Nation Of Gods and Earths, which can also be known as The 5% Nation Of Islam, and we aren't necessarily accepted by Islam, and where I live In Minneapolis, We have a large number of Somalians, and I've befriended many Somalians, and have made many friendships with them, I've learned much from many Muslims, and My ignorance has really been broadened, and I have learned much, and it's taught Me to respect Islam, as they are really disciplined and open-minded. With the whole South Park thing, there was a filmmaker who made a film about Islam suppressing women, and that was bad for him, as he had a fatwa put on him, and within a short time, he was murdered. Also, the idiots who made cartoons of The Prophet Muhammad, have had several attempts on their lives, so I just find it really disrespectful, and here is a NY Times article that was just released.



[h1]‘South Park’ Episode Altered After Muslim Group’s Warning[/h1]


By DAVE ITZKOFF

Published: April 22, 2010

“South Park,

 

[crank lucas]

Originally Posted by CHICHAN

What did comedy central do?

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Why is there such a black or white view on the issue? It's getting to a point where to NOT make fun of Muslims is synonymous with succumbing to terrorists. Seriously, how is it going to affect your daily life if you don't make fun of Muhammad? As I mentioned earlier, you do NOTHING but help the terrorists when you do this. This is exactly what they want, and it fits like a linepiece that you've been saving up for in a game of Tetris as far as their cause is concerned. The terrorists want to create division and a global war between ALL Muslims and ALL non-Muslims. That's why they carry out these terrorist attacks, to shock people and hope that they will generate a global war between the religions. A stunt like this creates free publicity for them that they wouldn't be able to create if they spent millions of dollars in advertising. But some people are too narrow-minded to understand this.

You don't have to convert to Islam to appease Muslims. And really, if you don't want to, you don't even have to respect Islam itself. You just have to respect the fact that Islam means as much to some people as whatever is dearest to you, like your family.

 

[gtek]

Originally Posted by Cz7

To think Christianity and Islam at are not at odds and are some how compatible is utter nonsense. They agree on many moral doctrines mostly because islam is largely a plagarism of the bible.

The disagree on the fundamental aspect of attaining salvation, which central to both religions. Christians say its ONLY through Jesus Christ. Muslims say its only through the teachings of Muhammad. They reject the divinity of christ. Therefore the two are fundamentally at odds. According to the bible muslims will not enter heaven, and vice versa for the muslims. This is what you have to believe if you call yourself a true muslim or christian.

BUT that is NOT what this post is about at all.

 

[krispacinla]

^^^Real Talk. One day its will be on. The western World vs the Muslim nationS. WW3 I feel it soon.