Israel declares War - Destruction of Gaza / Growing conflict in Middle East
- Jan 12, 2013
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It's a mix between discriminate (specifically targeting) and indiscriminate. Either way you can look up whichever sources you want.
I think the idea of these strikes accomplishing anything other than the Houthis' military installations getting blown up is so ridiculous it's almost comical.
Ah yes, the Western World, known for its preference for diplomacy rather than just bomb the strike locations. Let's see what has happened since the Houthis started these strikes...
Oh, shocker, they decided to just bomb them. Who could've seen that one coming. The Houthis have accomplished nothing besides negatively impacting global trade, which will ironically also affect Palestinians throughout the world. They'll likely continue the strikes, possibly even more indiscriminately due to the US/UK blowing up several important military installations.
The idea that the Houthi's terrorism will somehow help end Israel's genocide of the Palestinians sounds delusional even on paper, much less when you think about the involves parties.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024...his-claim-of-attack-on-us-military-cargo-ship (Note: Al-Jazeera is funded by the Qatari government)
US, UK strike eight Houthi targets over Red Sea shipping attacks
A Houthi underground storage site, as well as missile and surveillance capabilities, among targets in latest strikes.
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- Jan 12, 2013
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DLF
Here I'll give you a hand to help you formulate why you were wrong, as I doubt you're capable of doing so yourself.
Right from the mouth of a Houthi military spokesman, on video. Self-admitted targeting of a Norwegian-flagged ship because they "rejected warning calls"
Which warning calls? It's a Norwegian-flagged ship. The Houthi Brigadier General does not accuse or imply this was a covert Israeli-tied ship.
I thought they weren't doing any indiscriminate targeting?
Oh I forgot, you pretend to be some enlightened real truth seeker but ironically you more often than not end up impulsively making up a false statement without doing any research.
It's funny how predictable you are. Unlike you I do my research before I open my mouth.
By the way, feel free to find a source of your preference disputing the Houthi Brigadier General's own words.
https://apnews.com/article/yemen-ship-attack-houthi-rebels-red-sea-946b40e6393af6216c0b6ef734311be9
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...-missile-as-it-traverses-bab-el-mandeb-strait
Yemen’s Houthis claim missile attack on Norwegian ship Strinda
No casualties reported from strike on Strinda tanker as it passed through strategic Bab al-Mandeb Strait.
DLF
Why do you insist on doing this? We both agree Israel is committing genocide, there's no disagreement there.
I've noticed in previous discussions that you tend to fabricate strawman fallacies when you're forced to acknowledge your automated propaganda was a false statement.
So to save you the trouble I'll answer the most likely strawman arguments you could use.
Do I believe Israel is committing genocide in Gaza? Yes, 100%.
Do I support sanctions or whatever form of possible accountability for the genocide? Yes, though I don't see it as a realistic possibility.
Do I support the US and other European countries (such as my own) supplying weapons to Israel? No.
Do I support strikes on the Houthis? I wholeheartedly support targeted strikes on Houthi military equipment used to strike ships since they started indiscriminately striking ships.
Do I believe mainstream media should always be treated with a healthy degree of skepticism and backed up by more trustworthy outlets? Yes
Your automated propaganda response is so predictable and you keep falling for it every single time. All I or anyone else has to do is to withhold reporting on an issue that doesn't fit your narrative but is from a source you deem trustworthy.
Ironically your distrust of mainstream media (which is fair, you should not blindly trust anything) went so far off the deep end that you've programmed yourself into an even less critical propaganda mouthpiece, but for a different narrative.
Hypothetically, let's say I have a non-mainstream report on a Houthi or Hamas leader explicitly calling for the genocide of all jews and announcing military action as part of that goal. In the other hand is the exact same reporting, but from the NY Times.
If I only show you the NY Times report, the experiment could be repeated a hundred times and the outcome would always be that you immediately discredit it as fake news because mainstream media bad and america bad. No further thought or research.
Are you really so far gone that you don't realize you turned a healthy distrust of the media into programming yourself to the point where you're actually even more gullible than people who watch cable news without any skepticism? You're doing the same, if not worse, than them. The only only difference being that you just stick to a different narrative.
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- Aug 1, 2012
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Then if they want the Houthis to stop, which is also their waters, stop the genocide in Gaza which are armed and funded by the U.S. and U.K and other alliances.
The western superpowers block trade routes, go ahead and put sanctions and blockades on others all the time.
They're out here worried about blocked trade routes that affect their profits but not the fact they are arming and supplying a genocide. Like c'mon now...
The western superpowers block trade routes, go ahead and put sanctions and blockades on others all the time.
They're out here worried about blocked trade routes that affect their profits but not the fact they are arming and supplying a genocide. Like c'mon now...
- Jul 16, 2017
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When people make a blanketed statement like “they are hitting ships indiscriminantly” that implies that if a 100 ships pass a day, they close their eyes and hit 80 of them.
Hundreds and hundreds of ships have traveled their waters since October 7 and many continue to. They use whatever limited intelligence they have and are targeting ones that probably have Israeli ties and if Norwegian ship that got hit had no ties, then they should have responded on the radio.
If a cop stops you in the street at 3am in a dark alley near a location with lots of crime and you are innocent, you should probably not run away and fail to respond to a cop asking you to stop and show ID. pretty simple. You enter that zone, you play by their rule right now. It’s just the way it is. I don’t write the rules. You commit genocide and fund it- then don’t be surprised if you can’t walk the streets freely bc people will take justice in their own hands.
Of course I don’t support hitting random innocent ships. But they are at least doing something.
In fact according to the ICJ hearing, they might be the only country following the rules now. “Do whatever necessary to stop a potential genocide”
It’s not that complicated.
-Bully beating on tiny kid
-Kid in class comes to defend tiny kid by targeting bully and his friends to get Bully to stop
-Bully wont stop
-Kid in class continues to do other things to get him to stop (like slash his tires so he can’t get to school…etc)
“Omg they hit ships indiscriminately… here is ONE example”
Hundreds and hundreds of ships have traveled their waters since October 7 and many continue to. They use whatever limited intelligence they have and are targeting ones that probably have Israeli ties and if Norwegian ship that got hit had no ties, then they should have responded on the radio.
If a cop stops you in the street at 3am in a dark alley near a location with lots of crime and you are innocent, you should probably not run away and fail to respond to a cop asking you to stop and show ID. pretty simple. You enter that zone, you play by their rule right now. It’s just the way it is. I don’t write the rules. You commit genocide and fund it- then don’t be surprised if you can’t walk the streets freely bc people will take justice in their own hands.
Of course I don’t support hitting random innocent ships. But they are at least doing something.
In fact according to the ICJ hearing, they might be the only country following the rules now. “Do whatever necessary to stop a potential genocide”
It’s not that complicated.
-Bully beating on tiny kid
-Kid in class comes to defend tiny kid by targeting bully and his friends to get Bully to stop
-Bully wont stop
-Kid in class continues to do other things to get him to stop (like slash his tires so he can’t get to school…etc)
“Omg they hit ships indiscriminately… here is ONE example”
- Jan 12, 2013
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As expected, you’re putting words in my mouth through a strawman fallacy.
Just like I said you would.
Imagine all you want, it is a correct use of indiscriminately. Imply, imply, imply. This is all you have? Seriously? Is this supposed to be a joke?
I’ll even throw you a bone here out of pity. The word does have multiple definitions, one of which is the more blanketed implication you described.
However that is entirely irrelevant, because the only conceivable circumstance where this would be a point is if you did absolutely zero research before opening your mouth.
So thanks for proving exactly what I assumed you’d do.
You’re proudly admitting you don’t research anything before immediately proceeding with your predetermined false propaganda.
First it was
- It never happened
Then it became
- Ok but it was the ship’s fault
Then you laughably argue that you “don’t support targeting innocent random ships, but they are at least doing something”
The use of the word but after that ‘implies’ something there. Example: I don’t support bombing civilians but they are at least doing something.”
However, unlike you I won’t put words in your mouth. I don’t have enough information to conclude whether the use of “but” there implies you support targeting civilians if it supports your narrative.
See? It’s possible to make proper arguments without lying, fabricating and logical fallacies. You should take notes. It’s not hard.
Your cop example is an irrelevant strawman fallacy. It’s just pathetic at this point.
Your bully example is not a strawman fallacy for once, but either way it is irrelevant because it could only apply if you just outright refuse to do even the slightest bit of any research. I decline to take an argument seriously when its foundation is willful ignorance.
Your ICJ point is at long last something I can work with to some degree.
Here’s what you said, though as usual without sourcing.
“In fact according to the ICJ hearing, they might be the only country following the rules now. “Do whatever necessary to stop a potential genocide” - DLF
I can’t tell if you mean to suggest a link between the ICJ case and the Houthis, or suggesting attacking civilians falls under that quote. Again, I won’t put words in your mouth and give you the benefit of the doubt.
This ICJ point lacks important context though. More specifically, the ICJ issued an interim order a day or two ago to force Israel’s compliance with several provisions. I know you wouldn’t bother doing any research but for the adults in the room, of if you have a change of heart, I’ll leave a direct link to the interim order here.
Document link
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24377503-192-20240126-ord-01-00-en?responsive=1&title=1
The genocide of the Palestinian population is a serious issue that should warrant serious discussions. This, however, is the behavior of a petulant child who very obviously lacks the maturity to handle a discussion of a topic as serious as this.
Can we at least get confirmation you’re at least 18 years old so I can know I’m not sitting here discussing complex matters with a 16 year old edgelord?
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- Jul 16, 2017
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Immoral bastards
- Jan 12, 2013
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Multiple wrongs don’t make a right. I’m strongly against supplying weapons and other support to Israel and fully support the ICJ’s new interim order (see below), which is at least a step in the right direction. Shoutout to South-Africa, they’re the ones who brought the case.
Unfortunately this order doesn’t really restrict Israel from continuing to receive high tech weaponry from Western countries.
The Houthis have no business doing anything.
There is no contradiction between my views on the genocide and supporting the bombing of Houthi military equipment used for their strikes.
The Houthis have not accomplished anything and I would argue it is beyond delusional for anyone not living in a fantasy land to expect that to change. All the Houthi militants have been doing is pointless grandstanding and attacking civilians, which basically guarantees they will be bombed by Western nations whose ships have been struck.
The idea that these ship strikes would have any impact on the Gaza genocide is complete nonsense.
The UK and US have already started blowing up Houthi military equipment. If the Houthis continue attacking ships, they will just get blown up long before this genocide conflict is resolved. If it ever gets resolved in the first place.
The ones currently blowing up the Houthis military are the same countries providing the most weapons to Israel. That’s the reality of the situation.
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- Jul 16, 2017
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The Houthis have been getting bombed by US planes and bombs plus US/UK intel for 7-9 years and only got stronger. I’ll take my military advice from military analysts who have ALL said the US cannot defeat the Houthis (defeat as in: achieve its goals. Sure it can bomb it to pieces but killing innocent people doesn’t mean you’ve “won” the war). Realistically you need to land 100k marines in Yemen and occupy it. Problem is we don’t have that kind of man power and a war like that would cost another trillion and 5-20 years. Not to mention the Red Sea would see a literally stoppage in ship movement for those years. Yemen would hit the Saudi and UAE oil fields and the European economy would enter a decades long depression.Multiple wrongs don’t make a right. I’m strongly against supplying weapons and other support to Israel and fully support the ICJ’s new interim order (see below), which is at least a step in the right direction. Shoutout to South-Africa, they’re the ones who brought the case.
Unfortunately this order doesn’t really restrict Israel from continuing to receive high tech weaponry from Western countries.
The Houthis have no business doing anything.
There is no contradiction between my views on the genocide and supporting the bombing of Houthi military equipment used for their strikes.
The Houthis have not accomplished anything and I would argue it is beyond delusional for anyone not living in a fantasy land to expect that to change. All the Houthi militants have been doing is pointless grandstanding and attacking civilians, which basically guarantees they will be bombed by Western nations whose ships have been struck.
The idea that these ship strikes would have any impact on the Gaza genocide is complete nonsense.
The UK and US have already started blowing up Houthi military equipment. If the Houthis continue attacking ships, they will just get blown up long before this genocide conflict is resolved. If it ever gets resolved in the first place.
The ones currently blowing up the Houthis military are the same countries providing the most weapons to Israel. That’s the reality of the situation.
Don’t come at me…regarding this info, ask Scott Ritter. Ask Larry Johnson. Ask Ray McGovern. Ask Doug McGregor. All of whom also predicted the exact fate of the war on Hamas mid October. Their script has been followed to a tee.
- Jan 12, 2013
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Scott Ritter: Convicted pedophile
Larry Johnson: Racist who tried to smear Michelle Obama with false claims of her being an “anti-white racist” during the campaign, and then later falsely accused Obama of conspiring with the UK to wiretap Trump during his campaign.
Ray McGovern: The only somewhat normal person here, yet even he is literally on Putin’s payroll with regular appearances on RT and Sputnik. Including celebrations with Putin in person, after he invaded Crimea.
Doug McGregor: Advocates for martial law at the Mexican border, shooting Mexican civilians, claims Mexicans “bring the wrong culture”
Wow you sure know how to pick ‘em huh?
To tell you what exactly? Israel has been running a glorified concentration camp for many decades and has aggressively expanded settlements under the Netanyahu government. Wow what a shocker that this ended up fostering a big terrorist attack by Hamas. And who could’ve possibly predicted that Netanyahu would quickly seize the opportunity to embark on a genocidal rampage?
Anyone with an IQ over 50 could’ve told you that. Interesting that you needed a pedophile, 2 racists and a grifter on Putin’s payroll to tell you that.
Bravo, you’ve outdone yourself.
There is no more conversation to be had with you. There is nothing to gain from it, and every single thing coming out from your keyboard solidifies that there is no substantive discussion to be had with you.
Your trolling in the Politics thread is fine but I think dragging this topic down to your level of bad faith, lack of maturity and intellectual ineptitude is borderline disrespectful to the Palestinians’ plight.
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- Jul 16, 2017
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Lol
Lol
Lol
Lol
Lol
If you ever meet a doctor who can diagnose your broken arm but has a shady past…but is a good doctor nonetheless- you should probably listen to his diagnosis.
saying you take analysts advice ONLY if they are saints in all aspects of their lives is one of the most stupid things I ever seen
“Oh look. Football analyst pregame said 49ers would win bc of XYZ.”
“Nah man…he cheated on his wife 4 years ago and hates Mexicans. Don’t take his football advice”
- Jul 16, 2017
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Michael Jordan once offered me advice on my jump shot but I turned it down bc he is a gambler in his free time.
- Jan 12, 2013
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You fell for it again
Like come on man. Anything that let’s say the NY Times reports causes your flowchart to automatically deny if it doesn’t align with your narrative.
But when it comes to pedophiles, racists and Kremlin stooges, those follow the zero research 100% credibility flowchart if they happen to align with your self-programmed narrative.
What a sad pathetic joke. This thread deserves better.
The saddest part is that I’m not even sure you’re aware that your media bias has gone so far off the deep end that an extremely simple flowchart can predict whatever you’ll say next.
The saddest part is that I’m not even sure you’re aware that your media bias has gone so far off the deep end that an extremely simple flowchart can predict whatever you’ll say next. Everything you’ve said throughout this one-sided dumpster fire of a discussion was laid out in that earlier flowchart, and you followed it to the letter.
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John Wick
formerly jayzonmytoes
- Oct 5, 2006
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The West Bank is interesting.... "Stop twisting our support for Hamas" was a good response to this reporter she tried it multiple times.
- May 9, 2004
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The United States??
- Jul 16, 2017
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Why are all the contrarian posters in here the same. Cant quite explain the characteristic but it’s there. Reminds me of some of the spin the Israeli spokespeople have on their takes.
Something tells me their favorite journalists are Jake Tapper and Rachel Maddow. They probably wish John Kirby ran for office bc they seem him a true military expert
Something tells me their favorite journalists are Jake Tapper and Rachel Maddow. They probably wish John Kirby ran for office bc they seem him a true military expert
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- May 21, 2004
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Brah, ignore all these people. As you said it’s exactly like watching Israelis speak. A whole bunch of arguing on points that have zero impact on anything.
It’s literally spin.
All these dudes posting in the politics thread got their head so far up their own .. it’s despicable. Stay there, don’t bring that arguing with American views on international topics here.
Bunch of wanna bes. Inspired by a false image of progressive politics.
It’s literally spin.
All these dudes posting in the politics thread got their head so far up their own .. it’s despicable. Stay there, don’t bring that arguing with American views on international topics here.
Bunch of wanna bes. Inspired by a false image of progressive politics.
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- Jan 12, 2013
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Spin on what exactly? I’m not American.
Was it spin to point out and undisputably prove that DLF does not do any research or critical thinking?
- May 21, 2004
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I think you are alright man. I wasn’t necessarily speaking to you, and I went back and read through your posts and see your points. I believe we’re just arguing about bs.
See, at a time when no Arab president has done anything meaningful, certainly not with the use of force to try and mimic the language of the bully, Yemen and the houthis looks like heroes right now.
See, at a time when no Arab president has done anything meaningful, certainly not with the use of force to try and mimic the language of the bully, Yemen and the houthis looks like heroes right now.
- Jan 12, 2013
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I was mainly referring to Israel as a direct comparison but yes, when it comes to attacking civilians you could put the US or pretty much any other western military in that comparison.
DLF has no interest in critical thinking so his automated propaganda response was to deny that the Houthis are striking non-Israeli ships with civilian crews. He also victim-blamed the civilian crew because according to the Houthi Brigadier General, the ship did not comply.
Targeting civilians should be condemned in all cases, whether it’s on a small scale (Houthis) or large scale like Israel’s genocide against the Palestinians with weapons provided by their allies.
DLF is a prime example of healthy distrust of the media going so far in that direction that he refuses to apply any media skepticism or do any research. To him, critical thinking no longer applies.
DLF claims to not support striking innocent civilians, yet blames those same civilians for being targeted by Houthi militants.
Strikes that according to him didn’t exist, for the record.
With zero critical thinking, he made a blatantly false statement that indirectly supports the striking of innocent civilians. Then he tried to turn it into a numbers game.
I chose to cite one particular example because one example was all that was needed to dismiss his propaganda.
My bad for expecting him to take issue with targeting civilians. I should’ve known better than to expect consistency from a propagandist.
Then as a final nail on the coffin, he threw some good old victim blaming on the pile.
If you strip away the context, @DLF’s spin could’ve easily come from a pro-genocide propagandist. His ignorance, lack of critical thinking and refusal to back up an argument with evidence follows the exact same mantra as a pro-genocide propagandist. Thankfully you’re at least being a mindless propagandist for the anti-genocide side, which is obviously a whole lot better.
- Deny all information that doesn’t strictly fit in a particular narrow view
- If there is no further denial possible, move the goalposts as far as you can to cling to said narrative
- Deflect, fabricate logical fallacies, put words in others’ mouths, and obstruct
- Jan 12, 2013
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From the Houthi’s point of view, I can understand why they decided to go with this strategy. It all seems rather pointless though, and striking civilians certainly doesn’t help.
Saudi Arabia has been and will continue to bomb Yemen with far superior firepower. If they continue this strategy, they’ll be fighting both a Saudi-led coalition and US-led bombs at the same time.
It’s a lose-lose strategy. Their military operations used to attack the ships are already being destroyed by the US and UK.
- Jan 16, 2011
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Live updates: US troops killed in Jordan, Israel-Hamas war, Gaza crisis
Three American service members were killed in a drone attack on a US outpost in Jordan, marking the first time US troops have been killed by enemy fire in the Mideast since the beginning of the Gaza war. Follow for live updates.
- Aug 1, 2012
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First, I don't think any of us support any of the Arab states and their despots or even certain factions running amok, but this is a consequence of geopolitics and Western foreign meddling and interference.
Whether it was Houthis or some other group, this is the symptoms to the root causes.
There's a genocide that is aided by the superpowers of the world and by also the Arab states.
Houthis and the other alliances tied to anti-imperialist and Israel are doing quite the extensive damage. So, it is working.
It's not my moral imperative to judge when there's a genocide taking place.
I don't see anyone else affected by the Houthis blockade to the extent of getting killed and starving from it.
Again, get to the roots and stop the genocide. Stop Zionism rule and end the occupation. Every other reaction or response are just the natural symptoms.
Whether it was Houthis or some other group, this is the symptoms to the root causes.
There's a genocide that is aided by the superpowers of the world and by also the Arab states.
Houthis and the other alliances tied to anti-imperialist and Israel are doing quite the extensive damage. So, it is working.
It's not my moral imperative to judge when there's a genocide taking place.
I don't see anyone else affected by the Houthis blockade to the extent of getting killed and starving from it.
Again, get to the roots and stop the genocide. Stop Zionism rule and end the occupation. Every other reaction or response are just the natural symptoms.
- May 9, 2004
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