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Israel declares War - Destruction of Gaza / Growing conflict in Middle East
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Interesting thread by the account that brought to light the lack of credibility for Anat Schwartz.
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Bless your heartNotice how virtually none of the people doing so even bother looking at this from the perspective of these people's loved ones.
Now those loved ones, who hypothetically could be just as anti-genocide, have to live with a bunch of losers constantly re-traumatizing them by cheering on the pointless suicide of their son, husband, friend, whatever.
DripNick
DLF
As part of my volunteer work with a close friend I met while we were both volunteering for a mental health non-profit, we raise funds for humanitary aid by selling various graphic designs (stickers, prints etc) around the Ghent university area. To be clear, this isn't to toot my own horn but to illustrate a hypothetical scenario. The blacked out part in the image is my friend's IG, as she's the one making the graphic designs. If it was to toot my own horn, I could've posted the same thing months ago while arguing against DLF's nonsense strawman arguments where he paints me as pro-genocide.
Anyway, I'm only using it here because I have a strong view against the deluded cheering on of pointless suicide.
In a hypothetical scenario, let's say my friend becomes deluded into thinking setting herself on fire would accomplish something.
She ends up following through with it and kills herself like Bushnell did. In this scenario, what was gained?
Absolutely nothing. Now her surroundings, myself included, would be constantly confronted with bottom of the barrel losers mindlessly glorifying and cheering on her suicide without even the slightest consideration for her family and friends.
Long Live Aaron Bushnell and
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Pulling a strap on someone engulfed in flames is very American
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Herein lies the issue though, and you alluded to it yourself in a previous comment: a good deal for Palestinians is one that invariably allows the possibility of backdooring a single Palestinian state through demographic pressure. It's obvious to anyone who cares to take a look. You can't expect Israelis to accept this, and Palestinian leaders do not have the military capabilities to enforce this reality on Israelis. In this situation, you can either continue to promise your people something you're unable to deliver, or you can get realistic, and negotiate for things that can support your independence (maritime and airspace autonomy) despite the discomfort it'll cause to your adversary.
I am aware of the post colonial era and how western countries used (or installed) friendly leaders to secure access to the resources they needed. The events and motivations of that period of MENA history mirror what was happening in Central Africa (where i'm from), down to the panarabism/panafricanism movements (which is what I think you're alluding to, when talking about the betrayal of Arab states).
However, you can't simply take that history and apply it wherever you see fit in order to dismiss the current motivations of Arab states. The Cold War has been over for 34 years, and technology has made access to foreign oil less relevant, which has led to a gradual withdrawal of the West from the region. It's in this context that Arab states have pivoted towards economic diversification and regional cooperation/competition between the region's powers, namely Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Turkey.
Speaking of the panarabism, one also has to take into account the internal competition among Arab states to be the representative voice of the movement (Gaddafi famously pivoted away from it to embrace panafricanism). That shows that even at the height of panarabism popularity, there was uncertainty about the direction of the movement.
Good leadership is being able to recognize all these currents, recognize how they evolve, and position your country in a way that they benefit from such evolutions. From what I've been reading about Palestinian leaders, whether in Gaza or in the WB, they appear to operate as if the Middle East is still dominated by panarabism, when the ideology has been irrelevant in the region for decades.
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He did it for the boys family.
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formerly colombia
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Guess I shouldn’t have expected an actual discussion. My apologies for taking you seriously. You can go back to cheering on and incentivising more unnecessary deaths.Bless your heart
Long Live Aaron Bushnell and
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you negatively frame the following acts:
Houthi attackks
Hamas attacks
self-immolation of Bushnell.
Not sure what exactly you were thinking solutions were here? Your only suggestions seems to be criticizing Arab participation in this.
It’s almost as if anything that is actually changing the conversation about Palestine you are against, but yet you claim your against Israel’s actions.
Houthi attackks
Hamas attacks
self-immolation of Bushnell.
Not sure what exactly you were thinking solutions were here? Your only suggestions seems to be criticizing Arab participation in this.
It’s almost as if anything that is actually changing the conversation about Palestine you are against, but yet you claim your against Israel’s actions.
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“More importantly, this is shaking things up in mainstream society and not just within the pro-Palestine crowd. We’re seeing Bushnell’s final words about the US empire’s complicity with genocide shared on mainstream networks like CNN and ABC, while Israel apologists run around falling all over themselves trying to tell people nobody cares about what Bushnell did like a guy sending a woman dozens of texts saying he’s totally unbothered that she rejected his advances. A member of the US military lighting himself on fire while screaming “Free Palestine” is absolutely devastating to the information interests of Israel and the United States, because it shakes people awake like nothing else ever could.”
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I appreciate you bro but I think I made my views pretty clear on this subject, another back and forth seems pretty pointless and performative.
I'll answer to your weird shot at me though: the most unnecessary deaths are the ones of the thousands of children of Gaza, anything going towards their memory and/or some progress in the de-escalation of violence against them is a win to me. Im definitely not cheering.
I do find it pretty ironic how western civilization, based on Christianity, can't seem to fathom the meaning of sacrifice.
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So is not attempting to negotiate what a majority of the country wants to support genocide.
Majority of Muslim and Jewish Democrats Favor a Permanent Ceasefire in Gaza | ISPU
This is the first in a series of brief analysis pieces, starting with a look at American faith and non-faith communities’ support for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza and where respondents place blame for the ongoing violence.
www.ispu.org
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What a ridiculous load of nonsense.
Houthis attacking innocent civilians does not gain them any favor, and it negatively impacts their own allies. Ships without any connection to Israel have to take into account potential damage costs and the people who face the consequences are innocent people. I'm not going to apologize for negatively framing the firing of missiles at innocent civilians.
In a hypothetical scenario where the Houthis aren't shooting themselves in the foot by striking innocent civilians, perhaps I could see some utility.
I'm not sure if the second is what you meant to imply but again, I'm not going to apologize for negatively framing Hamas slaughtering innocent civilians.
That being said, terrorism is a natural consequence of Israel's long history of essentially running a concentration camp. When you violently oppress a population for so long, an attack like October 7th is bound to come at some point. At this point it's practically impossible to say how this will play out in the longer term. The attack emboldened Israel to brazenly commit what amounts to genocide in my view, and they've been succeeding in their effort to further galvanize support of major geopolitical forces behind them.
The Palestinians are getting massacred day in day out while Hamas' millionaire leaders live a life of luxury in Qatar.
As for your third point, no I'm not going to apologize for negatively framing the glorifiying and incentivizing of the pointless death of an innocent man who had noble intentions.
That's one less person on the side of the Palestinians who could've spent the following years protesting in actual productive ways, raising funds, ...
And now his family and friends, some of whom presumably also support the Palestinian cause, have to deal with constantly being re-traumatized by people cheering on his death.
Much like the other case of self-immolation back in December at the Israeli consulate in Atlanta, this unfortunate waste of life and potential will soon be forgotten.
As for that final implication, perhaps that is indeed what it looks like to someone who struggles with reading comprehension and critical thinking.
That's not my problem.
Framing everything in this binary mindset, where even something like the Houthis firing missiles at random civilians who don't have anything to do with this conflict is painted as pro-genocide, is beyond asinine.
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So is not attempting to negotiate what a majority of the country wants to support genocide.
Majority of Muslim and Jewish Democrats Favor a Permanent Ceasefire in Gaza | ISPU
This is the first in a series of brief analysis pieces, starting with a look at American faith and non-faith communities’ support for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza and where respondents place blame for the ongoing violence.
Dude, the news came out today that Hamas is rejecting the terms of a ceasefire during Ramadan.
When Biden said that we are close to it, both Hamas and the IDF publicly said "not yet."
Both!
How do you advocate for a ceasefire when the people who are fighting don't want to stop? The way some of you are posting, it's almost like Hamas is some sitting ducks with no weapons and no will to fight.
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Just say you support Israel and stop all this bs
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Maybe that's where he is.
Can't look past the fact that the death of Palestinians and the savagery of the IDF are cynically used to support actions that do nothing to support the cause of Palestinian statehood.
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If this is the level of disingenuous nonsense you want to play, fine I'll play along.
I'll assume "all this bs" includes my volunteering to raise humanitary aid funds for the Palestinians.
So I think this is the part where I'm supposed to turn my brain off and mindlessly call you a pro-genocide supporter right?
I'm not used to having to turn my brain off so you'll have to give me some pointers.
No worries, I'll continue doing my part and you can continue twiddling your thumbs.
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Tomorrow
Jesus can come down and say that Palestine should be free and these people would be like: well I mean. Sure. Jesus said this. But think of the atheist hate this would bring. So let’s ignore it.
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I’m going to assume that the side getting decimated is not declining a ceasefire because they want to continue fighting a losing battle, and that it’s probably because the terms are unfavorable.
Here’s apparently what’s stalling things:
“the Palestinian group’s non-negotiable demands include: A final and total ceasefire, and not just a humanitarian pause; the total withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza; and freedom of movement for Palestinians within Gaza”
Gaza ceasefire deal with Israel still not close, says senior Hamas official
Palestinian group affirms ‘space for flexibility’ but wants guarantee of total ceasefire and Israeli troops’ withdrawal.
So basically they want the colonizing oppressor to stop having Gaza be a concentration camp and have it not just be a temporary pause. They in fact are seeking a more permanent pause if anything.
Either way without fixing on the phrase “ceasefire” there also is a lack of this administration of holding Israel accountable, acknowledging their indiscriminate targeting, and that this is not self-defense but it is wiping out and collectively punishing civilians. Even if we want to give the US the highly undeserved benefit of the doubt that it’s doing it’s absolute best to negotiate an impartial and ethical deal, that does not mean the Biden administration isn’t complicit on so many other levels. Including sending weapons, military aid, military personnel, and veto’ing UN resolutions.
The president continues to self-identify as a Zionist which is an inherently colonist/imperialist philosophy that seeks to ethnically cleanse the indigenous population. He is also by quite some margin AIPAC’s biggest recipient, aka the most bribed and compromised by the foreign government said lobby represents.
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Biden’s admin miscalculated that they can lose the Muslim vote and still be fine. The miscalculation was they weren’t expecting to lose so many other people. This “war” is only getting more unpopular.
People survived four years of trump before. And if they feel that not voting for Biden is the best long term strategy to change the US’s foreign policy that includes enabling genocide then I can’t blame them. I also can’t blame people if their conscience won’t allow them to vote for a genocide enabler, and if they feel that within the democratic process this is the best way to hold elected officials accountable. Instead I blame the immoral elected officials for allowing this to happen and for not listening to what their base wants. And for lying to and gaslighting their base and trying to manipulate them to go against their conscience and humanity and to be ok with what’s happening.
People survived four years of trump before. And if they feel that not voting for Biden is the best long term strategy to change the US’s foreign policy that includes enabling genocide then I can’t blame them. I also can’t blame people if their conscience won’t allow them to vote for a genocide enabler, and if they feel that within the democratic process this is the best way to hold elected officials accountable. Instead I blame the immoral elected officials for allowing this to happen and for not listening to what their base wants. And for lying to and gaslighting their base and trying to manipulate them to go against their conscience and humanity and to be ok with what’s happening.
