Jay-z wouldn't have had a career if Biggie and Pac didn't die - snoop

[cash money 1999]

billboard song charts didnt mean much back then because you had

to declare a song a single back then or something , which is why

"smells like teen spirit" is in most peoples opinion the biggest song

of the 90's but only peaked at like 6....or why a song like "incomplete"

went number 1 for sisqo but "thong song" peaked at 3 even though

the thong song was way more popular

 

[trynafeelmink]

billboard song charts didnt mean much back then because you had
to declare a song a single back then or something , which is why
"smells like teen spirit" is in most peoples opinion the biggest song
of the 90's but only peaked at like 6....or why a song like "incomplete"
went number 1 for sisqo but "thong song" peaked at 3 even though
the thong song was way more popular

Nice try to discredit.... but all of the songs posted were official singles and the biggest songs off of the albums either way you want to put it.

and real funny how Billboard charts did matter when you made your "list" on how Jay-Z never had an era in rap

 

[cash money 1999]

Flesh Of My Flesh Blood Of My Blood 4x Platinum

Only Official Single was Slippin considering it was still being carried by the singles of the first album.

 

i think this proves the point that DMX was hotter , cd's used to cost like 18 dollars in 1998

and this dude went out and did 4 million off one single , the album before only sold 3 million

so i doubt the next joint is gonna outsell it if the debut is "carrying" it......and the next album

did 5 mill like a year later......dmx was on fire

dynasty came out in 2000 by that point dmx was on his way out

 

[illphillip]

I'm no mathematician, but isn't 12 million > than 11 million?

So DMX sold more albums with less Hot 100 singles, less radio play.....but he wasn't a bigger artist?

Interesting.....

 

[trynafeelmink]

i think this proves the point that DMX was hotter , cd's used to cost like 18 dollars in 1998
and this dude went out and did 4 million off one single , the album before only sold 3 million
so i doubt the next joint is gonna outsell it if the debut is "carrying" it......and the next album
did 5 mill like a year later......dmx was on fire

dynasty came out in 2000 by that point dmx was on his way out

Fam are you trolling right now.... The man had Three big singles in the beginning of 98 starred in one of the biggest hiphop tours in hiphop history & released his album at the tail end of that....

But your implying Slippin a single that didn't even chart is the reason he sold 4 Million.................................

 

[trynafeelmink]

I'm no mathematician, but isn't 12 million > than 11 million?

So DMX sold more albums with less Hot 100 singles, less radio play.....but he wasn't a bigger artist?

Interesting.....

I am maintaining what i said earlier that from 98 on Jay-Z and DMX were neck and neck as far as being hot goes. Which was then attacked as if DMX was moving tupac like figures every time out & was completely running the rap world with no competitors.

for someone who was knighted by ya'll to be the UNDISPUTED hottest in the game to not have more than one top 20 single, Not really get more radio play, Not Sell more on his best album, Not even be acknowledged for a grammy....

Kind of makes it difficult for me to see where undisputed came from.... but please explain it to me with your excellent english understanding.

but lemme guess now the next argument is going to be Nah the streets were def feeling X more, i was actually there (As was I) and things were always back and forth.

 

[tsx24]

I'm no mathematician, but isn't 12 million > than 11 million?

So DMX sold more albums with less Hot 100 singles, less radio play.....but he wasn't a bigger artist?

Interesting.....

I passed arithmetic in 1st grade and i am here to confirm that yes 12 million is indeed greater than 11 million.

 

[illphillip]

I mean, you kind of said it.

Grammy nominations actually mean something to you when it comes to rap?

You think a dude who was showered in blood on his album cover is going to get a Grammy nod?

You basically proved a lot of our points in your post.

X sold more albums, with no Top 20 singles and less radio play.

How does that not tell you who the bigger artist was at the time?

 

[cash money 1999]

.....and NONE of the rappers you listed or named have had a run like Jay Z has had.  So what's your point??

My argument was moreso based on the "King of Rap", not necessarily the "King of New York"  I'll let you New York/tri-state dudes argue/debate over that. 

listen champ , i know you love jay-z more anyone on this thread and everything but if you would have read the rest , after i posted the numbers i said exactly what you said....

"but aside from eminem , who's career would you rather have? honestly none even come close

jay-z's genius was retiring and letting 50 punch himself out , not devoting albums just for woman like nelly and aligning himself with the right people like beyonce while letting go of certain people like damon dash before dames temper ruined something huge like his one nation contract.....knowing when to sell rocawear etc.......he knew it was all about timing and decisions"

 

[cash money 1999]

and real funny how Billboard charts did matter when you made your "list" on how Jay-Z never had an era in rap

i didnt post any billboard hot 100 songs or charts tho

i posted physical soundscan copies that people went out and purchased

 

[cash money 1999]

I mean, you kind of said it.

Grammy nominations actually mean something to you when it comes to rap?

You think a dude who was showered in blood on his album cover is going to get a Grammy nod?

You basically proved a lot of our points in your post.

X sold more albums, with no Top 20 singles and less radio play.

How does that not tell you who the bigger artist was at the time?

all of this

 

[fresh out dabox]

true

 

[trynafeelmink]

all of this

So that would mean that it's Dark And hell is hot was an inferior album impact wise considering they came out the same year and Jay sold 2 million more copies than X did on that album..........

I mean unless two million more people buying your product rather than a product in the same category leaves no impact?

Being on the Radio doesn't equate to being hot?
Your singles being liked & listened to by more people doesn't equate to being hot?
Being recognized by the rest of the music industry for releasing a great album isn't considered being hot?

But because X sold 1 million more records he's was indisputably the KONY...... nice to know

I'm Like **** ***** at least keep it consistent - Hov

 

[illphillip]

So that would mean that it's Dark And hell is hot was an inferior album impact wise considering they came out the same year and Jay sold 2 million more copies than X did on that album..........

I mean unless two million more people buying your product rather than a product in the same category leaves no impact?

Being on the Radio doesn't equate to being hot?
Your singles being liked & listened to by more people doesn't equate to being hot?
Being recognized by the rest of the music industry for releasing a great album isn't considered being hot?

But because X sold 1 million more records he's was indisputably the KONY...... nice to know

You're trying too hard. And sadly, you buried yourself with your previous post.

Of course all those things mean Jay was hot. No one ever denied that.

But be realistic. Jay had a song that sampled a classic Broadway musical and film. And it was all over the radio. And it's a great record. And it birthed an entire tour.

And DMX was ******g braking on records. Of course Jay was going to get more radio play and be listened to by more people.

The Grammy nomination means nothing though. Period. There is a Grammy panel that decides that. NOT the "rest of the music industry". And at the time, there were very few voices, if any, that understood rap music on that panel. And again, you think they're going to nominate a barking lunatic? HA!

Jay had 4 Hot 100 singles on Vol. 3, X had maybe 1 on FLESH and X did more units.

So to hopefully, FINALLY answer your question, yes, X was hotter. He sold more records, with MUCH less exposure. Period. They didn't buy X's albums because his singles were all over the radio, they bought them because the ARTIST was MASSIVE.

I don't even understand how that's debatable.

 

[cash money 1999]

nobody's saying jay wasnt hot

and do you really expect to take home a grammy  talmbout

"all your mens up in the jail before , suck my d***"

 

[510thanos]

Ma$e KONY

.... The ***** was literally out for two years once he hit his stride and got bounced outta hiphop. 

i didnt see nobody say Mase was King of New York but jay wasnt close to the same space as him after he had cant hold me down, been around the world, mo money mo problems from no way out album then came wit his debut. mase impact was huge in 97 jay was still tryin to get over the hump...an dude just quit rappin to start preachin that doesnt take away from his mark on that time period

 

[trynafeelmink]

You're trying too hard. And sadly, you buried yourself with your previous post.

Of course all those things mean Jay was hot. No one ever denied that.

But be realistic. Jay had a song that sampled a classic Broadway musical and film. And it was all over the radio. And it's a great record. And it birthed an entire tour.

And DMX was ******g braking on records. Of course Jay was going to get more radio play and be listened to by more people.

The Grammy nomination means nothing though. Period. There is a Grammy panel that decides that. NOT the "rest of the music industry". And at the time, there were very few voices, if any, that understood rap music on that panel. And again, you think they're going to nominate a barking lunatic? HA!

Jay had 4 Hot 100 singles on Vol. 3, X had maybe 1 on FLESH and X did more units.

So to hopefully, FINALLY answer your question, yes, X was hotter. He sold more records, with MUCH less exposure. Period. They didn't buy X's albums because his singles were all over the radio, they bought them because the ARTIST was MASSIVE.

I don't even understand how that's debatable.

That would be cool if you didn't state this earlier.

Better singles? I'm not so sure. "Get At Me Dog" was a MONSTER. "Ruff Ryders Anthem" also.

"Get At Me Dog" was ultimately the reason that album was as massive as it was.

"How It Goin' Down" was a cool R+B flavor record. I didn't really care for "Stop Being Greedy" personally but it was still a big record.

"N***** Done Started Somethin'" was also a beast if memory serves.

All of these dropped in 98, where unlike today's music singles weren't disposable and people got to embrace the music before being bombarded by a million other things. Don't act like your naive and try to say his second album did those numbers based off one single fam... Don't play that way

So you mean to tell me that six Massive singles (by your definition) all dropping in the same year as flesh of my flesh didn't propel that album but instead it was the one single that didn't chart that gave it that buzz :\.

and quite frankly if we only bringing up the first two albums.... Jay outsold X 9 mil to 7 mil while x was in his prime........

The only reason X got the higher #'s throughout those years was because Jay dropped Dynasty (Which was supposed to be a ****** Compilation) and X scored BY FAR his biggest hit with that wackass "Party Up" & "What these chicks want" feat. Sisqo

 

[trynafeelmink]

i didnt see nobody say Mase was King of New York but jay wasnt close to the same space as him after he had cant hold me down, been around the world, mo money mo problems from no way out album then came wit his debut. mase impact was huge in 97 jay was still tryin to get over the hump...an dude just quit rappin to start preachin that doesnt take away from his mark on that time period

When you think 90's Rap How far down on the pecking order is Ma$e.... That's all i'm answering about dude any more in this thread (He dropped Double up & that **** that had the rugrats single on it for christ sake).... The man went from rolling a rolls to rolling with Reptar homie ain't in the discussion

 

[jayfiend]

It's no need to argue on NT because nobody wants to give in...

All I know is I don't even live in NY and I know DMX was the hottest ***** out period.

Where I'm from way more people were talking about X than Jay. It was Either X or Nas I've had several arguments at the lunch table talking about those two artist.

I just don't see how you can deny this.

I mean when VOl 2 came when dudes saw X was featured on Money Cash **** dudes was rushing to see how X did and he took over the whole song with his energy only. Jay gave him the hook and a verse...

This dude was even doing movies. That's not Jay and DMX in Belly that's DMX and Nas...

And that's a hood classic.

If you don't see it you really don't remember 98'.

 

[jayfiend]

And the thing is I'm not even hating on Jay. Like I said before he is in my top 5. Actually one of my favs.

But I'm not gonna BS and say something happened that didn't just because I'm a fan of his. Some of you dudes let the fan in you tell you how to think. And that's why nothing ever gets solved on NT

 

[trynafeelmink]

It's no need to argue on NT because nobody wants to give in...

All I know is I don't even live in NY and I know DMX was the hottest ***** out period.

Where I'm from way more people were talking about X than Jay. It was Either X or Nas I've had several arguments at the lunch table talking about those two artist.

I just don't see how you can deny this.

I mean when VOl 2 came when dudes saw X was featured on Money Cash **** dudes was rushing to see how X did and he took over the whole song with his energy only. Jay gave him the hook and a verse...

This dude was even doing movies. That's not Jay and DMX in Belly that's DMX and Nas...

And that's a hood classic.

If you don't see it you really don't remember 98'.

So much more people loved X that two million more people decided to buy Jay-Z's album instead of X's album... once again stop hitting me with memories and this nostalgic **** and give me some proof. U ain't professor X Nobody cares what you think.

 

[deuce king]

Never said it took away his mark on that time period.  Just stating that Mase had 1 hot year and that was about it.  He had one of the shortest solo rap careers known to man.  For Mason Betha it was literally grand opening.........grand closing. 

Also, Mase didn't quit rapping to start preaching at face value.  Mase got ran the hell out of New York, and for good reason and wanted to continue to live life without having it cut short.  "It's hot here, ask Mase he RAN to Atlanta" 

.

This dude was even doing movies. That's not Jay and DMX in Belly that's DMX and Nas...

And that's a hood classic.

If you don't see it you really don't remember 98'.

That's all good and all, and the movies are definitely apart of cultural impact.  If your going to talk about that, then we can't overlook or not mention Rocawear as Jay's clothing was apart of the cultural impact of that specific timeframe as well.  All of those factors count for both parties.  

 

[510thanos]

When you think 90's Rap How far down on the pecking order is Ma$e.... That's all i'm answering about dude any more in this thread (He dropped Double up & that **** that had the rugrats single on it for christ sake).... The man went from rolling a rolls to rolling with Reptar homie ain't in the discussion

You're thinking about 90's rap historically which obviously would have early 90s cats (pac,big,nas,snoop,cube) at the top of the list. The perspective i'm speaking from is being in that time period when 112 dropped "Only You" right before biggie died it was the biggest song in the country and Mase had the last verse Everybody attention was on him, Then think about those hits i mentioned dropping in succession all of them #1s. Then Mase debut goes 4X plat in a year brah he was killin sh(it. Nobody talkin bout his 2nd album he pretty much checked out of rap before that flop even came out. an that rugrats song was on they movie soundtrack

 

[510thanos]

, and for good reason and wanted to continue to live life without having it cut short.  "It's hot here, ask Mase he RAN to Atlanta" 

.

I love Cam but u kno got damn well Cam is the last dude that could talk ish about anybody runnin from ppl when they got ran outta rucker

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Totally forgot Jay tried to get on Mary J Blige's comeback wave on that tour

So that's what

X in his prime
MJB comeback
Ye after his hiatus
JT after he left for years

Jay knows how to stay in the light