Jay-z wouldn't have had a career if Biggie and Pac didn't die - snoop

[scotthallwithapick]

Totally forgot Jay tried to get on Mary J Blige's comeback wave on that tour

So that's what

X in his prime
MJB comeback
Ye after his hiatus
JT after he left for years

Jay knows how to stay in the light

 

[jayfiend]

Ok homie you wanna play numbers ok.

The first single off "it's Dark and Hell is Hot" was "Get at me Dog" the video was so Raw that MTV banned it. Again MTV! That's basically 2 mil out the window right there!

While Jay goes and samples a One of the biggest white musicals of all time. Is it really that had for you to add this up??? Are you really going to play this stupid?

This man First video got banned on the hottest channel at that time. And he still sold 3 mil.

You know what it doesn't matter. Have a good day.

 

[deuce king]

, and for good reason and wanted to continue to live life without having it cut short.  "It's hot here, ask Mase he RAN to Atlanta" 

.

I love Cam but u kno got damn well Cam is the last dude that could talk ish about anybody runnin from ppl when they got ran outta rucker

Well that's true, maybe I should have quoted that Jay line from Never Let Me Down about Mase instead.  Either way, Mase left the rap scene in 1998 to pretty much never return again and rap fans never looked back.  He was one and done. 

 

[jayfiend]

Never said it took away his mark on that time period.  Just stating that Mase had 1 hot year and that was about it.  He had one of the shortest solo rap careers known to man.  For Mason Betha it was literally grand opening.........grand closing. 

Also, Mase didn't quit rapping to start preaching at face value.  Mase got ran the hell out of New York, and for good reason and wanted to continue to live life without having it cut short.  "It's hot here, ask Mase he RAN to Atlanta"  .



That's all good and all, and the movies are definitely apart of cultural impact.  If your going to talk about that, then we can't overlook or not mention Rocawear as Jay's clothing was apart of the cultural impact of that specific timeframe as well.  All of those factors count for both parties.  

Ok I can agree with that...

But Duece aren't you From DC?

While a few did wear rocafella out here (I live in MD) most people I went to school with was wearing Hobo and stuff like that.

 

[illphillip]

That would be cool if you didn't state this earlier.
All of these dropped in 98, where unlike today's music singles weren't disposable and people got to embrace the music before being bombarded by a million other things. Don't act like your naive and try to say his second album did those numbers based off one single fam... Don't play that way

So you mean to tell me that six Massive singles (by your definition) all dropping in the same year as flesh of my flesh didn't propel that album but instead it was the one single that didn't chart that gave it that buzz :\.

and quite frankly if we only bringing up the first two albums.... Jay outsold X 9 mil to 7 mil while x was in his prime........

The only reason X got the higher #'s throughout those years was because Jay dropped Dynasty (Which was supposed to be a ****** Compilation) and X scored BY FAR his biggest hit with that wackass "Party Up" & "What these chicks want" feat. Sisqo

Again, trying too hard. What you quoted me saying was in a discussion about IDAHIH vs. REASONABLE DOUBT. The singles off of those 2 albums only.

You're a lame for taking my words so out of context. Especially since you went all the way back to copy them.

So yes, all those X singles were big, sure.

But YOU broke down the #s. You broke down the stats. I didn't include a single Hot100 number in my post. You did that.

You look at all the singles Jay had vs. the singles X had in albums released from 98-00 and all of Jay's singles charted higher if you put it all together. That's per YOUR post.

But X sold more records.

So you literally built a case that wound up refuting your argument and you still want to go back and forth about it?

You literally broke down the metrics. Your post started with DMX-12 Million and Jay-Z-11 Million.

You failed.

I never said anything about what propelled FLESH. I just know there was only 1 single from it and Jay had mad singles off of his album and they were all over the radio. But X sold more. You can spin that however you like. I'm just using the stats/info you were gracious enough to provide for me.

And this whole "only reason" things is lame as well. Dynasty had one of Jay's biggest singles. There's more than one reason why X got higher #'s and one of those reasons was that he was the bigger artist at the time.

 

[deuce king]

Never said it took away his mark on that time period.  Just stating that Mase had 1 hot year and that was about it.  He had one of the shortest solo rap careers known to man.  For Mason Betha it was literally grand opening.........grand closing. 

Also, Mase didn't quit rapping to start preaching at face value.  Mase got ran the hell out of New York, and for good reason and wanted to continue to live life without having it cut short.  "It's hot here, ask Mase he RAN to Atlanta" 

.



That's all good and all, and the movies are definitely apart of cultural impact.  If your going to talk about that, then we can't overlook or not mention Rocawear as Jay's clothing was apart of the cultural impact of that specific timeframe as well.  All of those factors count for both parties.  

Ok I can agree with that...

But Duece aren't you From DC?

While a few did wear rocafella out here (I live in MD) most people I went to school with was wearing Hobo and stuff like that.

Yes, from DC and lived in Maryland and went to college in North Carolina.  From places I saw, visited and from different videos during that time period Rocawear was huge and folks were wearing it.  I love my city, but Hobo, Shooters and all those brands are local.  Even though maybe a few dudes not from here wore it. 

 

[jayfiend]

Yes, from DC and lived in Maryland and went to college in North Carolina.  From places I saw, visited and from different videos during that time period Rocawear was huge and folks were wearing it.  I love my city, but Hobo, Shooters and all those brands are local.  Even though maybe a few dudes not from here wore it. 

Oh not not saying Rocawear wasn't huge because it was.

I actually said that for nothing at all...

 

[illphillip]

So much more people loved X that two million more people decided to buy Jay-Z's album instead of X's album... once again stop hitting me with memories and this nostalgic **** and give me some proof. U ain't professor X Nobody cares what you think.

X's debut album vs. Jay's 3rd album with "Hard Knock Life" all over the radio and a Hard Knock Life Tour and you're surprised that Jay did more?

And Jay has 2 Top 20 singles on that album? While X had none on his.

Oh, by the way....(All These #'s are top 100 not just Rap/hip-hop)

Then X proceeded to outsell him on the next 2? With Jay's records still getting more radio burn.

But X wasn't a bigger artist?

Why do we need to give you proof? You've already done that for us.

 

[trynafeelmink]

I find it funny how your holding on to dear life about the total # as if it's a HUGE difference insales yet you also say X was "Hotter" than Jay-Z for both 98 & 99... yet based off two albums dropped in that span... Jay-Z outsold him then too.

Soooooooooo By this thought process, cool X was a bigger artist for the singular year of 2000.... But based off the same numbers you also used to make this argument FACTS prove that Jay was hotter from 98 to 99

I mean i'm no mathematician but 9Mill > 7Mill Correct.
2 years> 1 year correct
+ Jay had bigger singles, Bigger features, a ****** clothing line = KING OF NEW YORK.

So Yes i broke down numbers, I broke down stats and when everything is accounted for...... Guess what.

And considering the sudden importance of #'s to you pleaseeee tell me how in the blue hell was nas up for the running after Blueprint... Because you also said that it was debatable.... Jay vs X isn't because of #'s....... but Jay vs Nas is because of........................

And this whole "only reason" things is lame as well.

You say this but follow with this

X's debut album vs. Jay's 3rd album with "Hard Knock Life" all over the radio and a Hard Knock Life Tour and you're surprised that Jay did more?

 

[illphillip]

^^^

Right. But I'm not saying "only reason" because that's childish ******** as there is no "ONLY" reason.

Hence, me giving....multiple reasons.

You can't be this dense. What grade are you in?

YOU brought up the #'s. You brought up the total numbers. How are the #'s important to me? I'm just using what you gave me.

YOUR numbers just supported my argument. So you been lost for a while now.

SIngular year of 2000? X dropped 2 albums in 98' that have done 7 million records. Then he did 5 Mil in '99.

Thank you again for doing all the research for me.

Since you like to take my words out of context, what did I say was debateable?

I said both Jay and Nas dropped great albums that year. And that people think Nas got Jay on Ether. And that Nas' next 2 releases were strong but Blueprint 2 was weak. "Made You Look" was a BEAST. Though I do love the remix to "Excuse Me Miss". No so much the OG. I didn't care for that "Bonnie + Clyde" **** either.

So yes, saying Jay was THE MAN at the time is debatable. Especially if a majority of people in your own city are saying you got got in battle.

Fact. no. Debatable? Sure.

 

[illphillip]

Bigger singles, bigger features, clothing line, but can't sell more records than the next man in your city makes you a king?

In what castle?

You must be the court jester.

 

[trynafeelmink]

^^^

Right. But I'm not saying "only reason" because that's childish ******** as there is no "ONLY" reason.

Hence, me giving....multiple reasons.

You can't be this dense. What grade are you in?

YOU brought up the #'s. You brought up the total numbers. How are the #'s important to me? I'm just using what you gave me.

YOUR numbers just supported my argument. So you been lost for a while now.

SIngular year of 2000? X dropped 2 albums in 98' that have done 7 million records. Then he did 5 Mil in '99.

Thank you again for doing all the research for me.

Since you like to take my words out of context, what did I say was debateable?

I said both Jay and Nas dropped great albums that year. And that people think Nas got Jay on Ether. And that Nas' next 2 releases were strong but Blueprint 2 was weak. "Made You Look" was a BEAST. Though I do love the remix to "Excuse Me Miss"

So yes, saying Jay was THE MAN at the time is debatable. Especially if a majority of people in your own city are saying you got got in battle.

Fact. no. Debatable? Sure.

If throwing in an album that dropped 7 days before 99 ended helps your argument go ahead.

The fact remains after both were introduced on a huge mainstream platform Jay's First two albums outsold Dmx's First two albums by TWO MILLION....

But because DMX outsold Jay by 1 million you claim he was hotter therefore making him the KONY

You yourself agreed that musically Nas & Jay were neck and neck (It's all opinion at this point cool).... Then you have to take into account the other things that come into account with that crown other than music. and when pairing nas up to Jay-z at that time period it isn't comparable AT ALL

Jay Sold More Records, Bigger tours, Bigger colabos (The ***** was on the OFFICIAL remix to MJ's comeback single)
Once Again His Album changed the way hiphop not just in NYC sounded but ALL of hip-hop
He had the Best crew in Hiphop
He had a HUGE clothing line
As far as acclaim and regards in the hiphop world and publications I often hear Blueprint amongst the greatest ever, I rarely if ever hear Stillmatic.

So if in your opinion the Music is a toss up, the battle is a toss up, the only thing left would be hotness and relevance and Nas wasn't in an arms reach when it comes to that.

In Jay vs X discussion they were ABSOLUTELY in the same realm when it came to relevance and importance... but people considered X "Hotter" so they gave him the nudge

so if X gets the nudge due to hotness.... How can Jay not be the king Of NY when pit against Nas when he was 10X as "Hotter" than nas at the time?

 

[illphillip]

If throwing in an album that dropped 7 days before 99 ended helps your argument go ahead.

The fact remains after both were introduced on a huge mainstream platform Jay's First two albums outsold Dmx's First two albums by TWO MILLION....

Dog, reading comprehension.....

You said X was bigger in 2000 only.

But X did 7 Mil on albums that dropped in 98 and...as I clearly typed, 5 Mil on an album that dropped in late 99. So in those 2-3 years, he was MASSIVE into 2000.

As for your 2nd point, that didn't happen. Stopped reading.

Unless you're just referring to that time period. In which case X's 2nd album outsold Jays. So you can cut it and try to weave it however you like.

From 98'-2000 X sold more albums as you were gracious enough to point out. So how is a dude that sold less than him a "king" over him?

That's ridiculous.

As any Jay stan would, you decided to try to bring Nas into this and rehash some **** I said pages ago, and I'm not even going there. "Stick to the script".

 

[trynafeelmink]

Bigger singles, bigger features, clothing line, but can't sell more records than the next man in your city makes you a king?

In what castle?

You must be the court jester.

If you put the albums out head to head

Album 1: Jay wins by 2 Million

Album 2: They tied with 4 Million

Album 3: X Wins by 3 Million

So what are you talking about?........ X was at his hottest in rap during it's Dark & Hell Is Hot.... That dropped Jay-z came 3 months after that and smashed that ***** out the park Sales Wise & single wise.. But X was the hottest ***** out?

You let a ***** come on YOUR LABEL COMPILATION album... get a song with No label artist on it.... It ends up not only being the best track on the album (Opinion) but by far the biggest track on YOUR LABEL COMPILATION album (Fact)..... but your the king

 

[trynafeelmink]

but i say that to say this my work day is over... Nas works for Jay, DMX works for drugs, And Jay has been the long running king of NY for the past 10 years Goodnight everyone.

 

[illphillip]

If you put the albums out head to head

Album 1: Jay wins by 2 Million

Album 2: They tied with 4 Million

Album 3: X Wins by 3 Million

So what are you talking about?........ X was at his hottest in rap during it's Dark & Hell Is Hot.... That dropped Jay-z came 3 months after that and smashed that ***** out the park Sales Wise & single wise.. But X was the hottest ***** out?

You let a ***** come on YOUR LABEL COMPILATION album... get a song with No label artist on it.... It ends up not only being the best track on the album (Opinion) but by far the biggest track on YOUR LABEL COMPILATION album (Fact)..... but your the king

Ruff Ryders isn't his label. He don't own it or call the shots. This is such a weak argument.

How is it any weaker for them to have Jay on their album than it is for Jay to do the biggest song on a compilation for a crew that ain't even his. And sell albums for the next man?

And it's not a bad look for Jay to run to DMX's producer to crank out a few records for him after X popped off? Of course not.

This is how I know your mind is warped. Because your perception leans so far in one direction and is incapable of grasping anything else. So sad.....

X was hottest on his first album, but then outsells Jay by 3 Mil on his 3rd? You make no sense. So after his DEBUT album, he tied then outsold the man who's supposed to be KING? HA!

Classic cop out. No one is questioning where Jay is today and who is larger today. If that's where you feel you need to go, you can have that. If pointing out that X is on drugs and that's why his career came to a screeching halt makes you feel better about your argument, you can have that.

Stating the obvious does nothing for me. But if it makes you feel good, more power to you.

 

[jayfiend]

I'm sorry but...

Some X ****>>>> everything on all them compilations...

 

[greezee]

^That song is hard!

 

[cash money 1999]

mase kinda like jarule in the sense that we all knew he was hot , we just wasn't taking

him too seriously ...right off the bat with holla holla he just looked goofy

 

[meek meals]

I'm no mathematician, but isn't 12 million > than 11 million?

 

[shorty doo wop]

but i say that to say this my work day is over... Nas works for Jay, DMX works for drugs, And Jay has been the long running king of NY for the past 10 years Goodnight everyone.

I love when dudes say this like it even matters

Matter of fact Jay ain't even pres of Def Jam so da hell are you talkin' about

 

[rrlegend]

I love when dudes say this like it even matters

Matter of fact Jay ain't even pres of Def Jam so da hell are you talkin' about

whats stupid is he needed nas more nas needed def jam at that time . 

 

[gllahone84]

What's stupid is Jay went from Irv, to hanging with Kane to Irv to BIG and Eminem murdered you on your own ****.

You a **** riding Jason Collins

 

[-Red-]

I had this conversation with my friends last night and I came to the conclusion that if for some odd reason Jay-Z would have faded into obscurity if Big and Pac were still alive like people are suggesting then I can accept the ways things really played out. Before people fly off the handle, no I am not saying that I am fine with the fact that they died, cause I'm not, pointless deaths are not ok, I would have much preferred if they stayed alive and faded into irrelevance thus opening up the lane for Jay, but if this was really the only reason that it happened, and the only reason why he vaulted into stardom and thus made more music then what can I say? I wouldn't want Jay-Z to not have an avenue to make more music in order to keep two others around, one of which I only casually listened to and another I don't listen to at all cause I don't think hes good at all.

Regardless of all the other nonsense being spewed in this thread...

This man literally just stated that he would gladly sacrifice the lives of two human beings in order for Jay-Z to have had a career beyond Reasonable Doubt. Bro, I really think you need to reevaluate your life right now...

 

[killa07]

^^^this
Time to wrap this thread up
That quote alone
"Yuck"