Kanye West: King of the Sunken Place, "Watch the Throne"

[1995]

Whats the common denominator in the scenarios that I presented?

Is it their skin tone?

 

[gry60]

Apples to oranges.

You didn't answer the question.

Kyrie didn't demonstrate anti-Semitism and if you believe he did, then you're brainwashed. He believes that he himself is Jew. There are people who are masquerading as Jews, just like there are people masquerading as Native American and black. We watched Elizabeth Warren lie about being NAtive American along with Rachael whatever her name is pretending to be black.

How exactly does that work? Why is Kyrie's belief that he's jew sufficient evidence, but Dolezal's belief that she's black not sufficient?

I'm just trying to find some consistency here, since you have discarded the necessity to prove ancestry.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Apples to oranges. Kyrie didn't demonstrate anti-Semitism and if you believe he did, then you're brainwashed. He believes that he himself is Jew. There are people who are masquerading as Jews, just like there are people masquerading as Native American and black. We watched Elizabeth Warren lie about being NAtive American along with Rachael whatever her name is pretending to be black.

At any point when you were typing this out did you it might not make Kyrie look the best?

Your excuse for Kyrie not being able to answer is a direct question is a religious belief he has, which doesn't even come from the religion he told the world he was practicing just months ago, and part of this belief is that the people we know today are Jews are liars. Intentionally trying to mislead the public for some sort of social gain.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Again as I mentioned a couple of times, while demanding people be charitable to Kyrie, his defenders are implicitly telling people they must accept Kyrie's beliefs as factually correct.

That is very shaky ground to build an argument on

Like if belief is the criteria, it is so flimsy it destroys the argument from the jump

Maybe, just maybe, no matter his views Kyrie should have taken this more seriously and explained himself better

 

[WASHED KING]

WASHED KING They coming after your King mane

Imma get banned on NT if they do.

 

[spiderjericho]

Just a question. I see some definite personal issues between some of ya and don’t want to get in the boat?

If Jews, for the most part, previously based their inclusion on lineage…how is Kyrie determining his? You CAN convert. But if the BHI base their lineage on twelve tribes , which I don’t feel like screen showing? Who has more right to claim the title? And which group is calling the other fake jews to discredit the other?

Again…there are a group of bonafide Black Jews that migrated to Ethiopia.

But if every black person does a DNA test, does it trace them back to Jerusalem, etc?

 

[tomdiginson]

You didn't answer the question.



How exactly does that work? Why is Kyrie's belief that he's jew sufficient evidence, but Dolezal's belief that she's black not sufficient?

I'm just trying to find some consistency here, since you have discarded the necessity to prove ancestry.

One is based off religious doctrine and the other is based off telling lies to garner support politically.

 

[gry60]

Again…there are a group of bonafide Black Jews that migrated to Ethiopia.

True. I'd even say that there are Black Jews who originate from that region of Africa.

But the likelihood that the majority of Black Americans are Jews is nil because most came from West Africa, where the only established abrahamic religion was Islam (spread in that region of the continent 6-700 years before the introduction of Christianity).

You CAN convert

Also true. Stoudemire did it.

 

[tomdiginson]

Is it their skin tone?

Jews historically have been sent across the far reaches of the earth, having communities everywhere. Theyve mixed and mingled witu various sets of people and thus have offspring who are technically Jewish. They may not look like the American stereotypical Jew, however, they are. I've met some from south America etc. Why is it that the ones we happen to see that prey on the black community happen to be of white European ancestry? Now im not saying that all of them of European descent are not Jewish, nor am I saying they are all racist, however, many are and they use the antisemitism excuse to parry all criticism for their wrongs.

One of them who had major support within his community and was running for city council made racist derogatory remarks against then Mayor Deblasios wife who is a black woman of hatian descent. And while being interviewed about his commentsz members of his community cheered in support. You walk into their neighborhoods as a black man and see if they dont profile you and have their "police" (who are known to beat people) follow you around until they either ask you what you're doing there, or follow you around until you get the hint to leave.

 

[spiderjericho]

So Mexicans and Native Americans are Jews according to the Twelve Tribes chart but predominantly they do not engage in Judaism. How did they forget their legacy?

 

[Nawzlew]

Jews historically have been sent across the far reaches of the earth, having communities everywhere. I've met some from south America etc. Why is it that the ones we happen to see that prey on the black community happen to be of white European ancestry? Now im not saying that all of them of European descent are not Jewish, nor am I saying they are all racist, however, many are and they use the antisemitism excuse to parry all criticism for their wrongs.

One of them who had major support within his community and was running for city council made racist derogatory remarks against then Mayor Deblasios wife who is a black woman of hatian descent. And while being interviewed about his commentsz members of his community cheered in support. You walk into their neighborhoods as a black man and see if they dont profile you and have their "police" (who are known to beat people) follow you around until they either ask you what you're doing there, or follow you around until you get the hint to leave.

you talkin bout hasidic jews?

 

[tomdiginson]

you talkin bout hasidic jews?

It's not just them.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Jews historically have been sent across the far reaches of the earth, having communities everywhere. Theyve mixed and mingled witu various sets of people and thus have offspring who are technically Jewish. They may not look like the American stereotypical Jew, however, they are. I've met some from south America etc. Why is it that the ones we happen to see that prey on the black community happen to be of white European ancestry? Now im not saying that all of them of European descent are not Jewish, nor am I saying they are all racist, however, many are and they use the antisemitism excuse to parry all criticism for their wrongs.

One of them who had major support within his community and was running for city council made racist derogatory remarks against then Mayor Deblasios wife who is a black woman of hatian descent. And while being interviewed about his commentsz members of his community cheered in support. You walk into their neighborhoods as a black man and see if they dont profile you and have their "police" (who are known to beat people) follow you around until they either ask you what you're doing there, or follow you around until you get the hint to leave.

You don't see the issue with giving this example when most American Jewish don't practice Hasidic Judaism

 

[RustyShackleford]

It's not just them.

Who else then?

 

[tomdiginson]

You don't see the issue with giving this example when most American Jewish don't practice Hasidic Judaism

Refer to my response to Nazlew

 

[RustyShackleford]

Refer to my response to Nazlew

Who else then?

 

[tomdiginson]

Who else then?

Reread my previous post where I cleary stated some of them who are of White European ancestry.

 

[Present]

Doesn't Irving have enough money to hire this guy?

​

 

[RustyShackleford]

Reread my previous post where I cleary stated some of them who are of White European ancestry.

So you are making a summary of Jewish Americans generally based on the actions/beliefs of "some" people?

 

[tomdiginson]

So you are making a summary of Jewish Americans generally based on the actions/beliefs of "some" people

No, that is what you're saying. I clearly prefaced my statement by saying some. I also said of white European Ancestry. I didn't say Jewish Americans because that would be broad. There are black American Jews, along with Hispanic American Jews, Asian American Jews etc. Are you suggesting that Jews can only be of White European ancestry?

 

[Present]

Meanwhile back at the Ranch...

With the midterm elections bearing down upon the country, Republicans suddenly can’t seem to stop talking about, admonishing and even threatening Jews.

This places Jewish Republicans in a bind: Will they side with their party and its deep roster of candidates, who are trafficking in subtle and unsubtle forms of antisemitism? Or will they speak out against bigotry and adhere to a more traditional Jewish-American ethos of placing the safety of the entire community first and foremost?

Right now, it looks like they’re taking the low road of putting up with antisemitism out of partisan commitment, and neglecting to consider how dangerous of a wager they’re making.

This choice confronts them almost daily. A few days back, Rebbie Mastriano, the wife of Republican Senate candidate Doug Mastriano of Pennsylvania, commented that she and her husband “probably love Israel more than a lot of Jews do.” This past Sunday in Nevada, Jewish Insider broke the story that a former paid staff member of Nevada Republican Senate candidate Adam Laxalt was tweeting about Judaism being a cult. Mark Finchem, a Republican candidate for secretary of state in Arizona, drones on about George Soros and other Jews he considers unpatriotic. The Jewish Telegraphic Agency recently reported that a Texas GOP congressional candidate wrote a 2020 novel about Anne Frank that explores the possibility that the beloved Holocaust martyr was Christ-curious.

Opinion | The alarming rise in Jewish Republicans tolerating antisemitism

The GOP is trafficking in open antisemitism. Republican Jews who refuse to speak up are making a dangerous wager.

www.msnbc.com

 

[RustyShackleford]

No, that is what you're saying. I clearly prefaced my statement by saying some. I also said of white European Ancestry. I didn't say Jewish Americans because that would be broad. There are black American Jews, along with Hispanic American Jews, Asian American Jews etc. Are you suggesting that Jews can only be of White European ancestry?

No, I am not

I am asking you to be clear

BTW, but most Jewish Americans are of white European descent. Which would mostly make them white.

Jewish Americans in 2020

What does it mean to be Jewish in America? A new Pew Research Center survey looks into this diverse group.

www.pewresearch.org

In the 2020 survey, roughly nine-in-ten U.S. Jewish adults identify as White non-Hispanic (92%), while 8% identify with all other categories combined. This compares with 94% White non-Hispanic and 6% in all other categories in the 2013 survey. In addition, there are other good reasons to think that the U.S. Jewish population, like the country’s population as a whole, is growing more racially and ethnically diverse over time, including a pattern of rising diversity by age.

Among Jewish adults under age 30, 85% identify as White (non-Hispanic), while 15% identify with all other categories, including 7% Hispanic, 2% Black (non-Hispanic) and 6% other or multiple races. That is much more racial and ethnic diversity than the survey finds among Jews ages 50 and older (97% White non-Hispanic).

So if you are just talking about white Jews, you are making judgments about the overwhelming majority of them

This is what you said...

Jews historically have been sent across the far reaches of the earth, having communities everywhere. Theyve mixed and mingled witu various sets of people and thus have offspring who are technically Jewish. They may not look like the American stereotypical Jew, however, they are. I've met some from south America etc. Why is it that the ones we happen to see that prey on the black community happen to be of white European ancestry? Now im not saying that all of them of European descent are not Jewish, nor am I saying they are all racist, however, many are and they use the antisemitism excuse to parry all criticism for their wrongs.

One of them who had major support within his community and was running for city council made racist derogatory remarks against then Mayor Deblasios wife who is a black woman of hatian descent. And while being interviewed about his commentsz members of his community cheered in support. You walk into their neighborhoods as a black man and see if they dont profile you and have their "police" (who are known to beat people) follow you around until they either ask you what you're doing there, or follow you around until you get the hint to leave.

So if you are saying here you were just talking about those of European descent, you are talking about the overwhelming majority of them. Which would be making a general comment

If you are saying you are not talking about all of those of European descent, only "some" of them, then it is a fair question to ask specifically who are the subgroups. Because you only mentioned one subgroup, people asked you for the others because you said there were others.

But you can't have it both ways.

 

[Brownstone]

Meanwhile back at the Ranch...

With the midterm elections bearing down upon the country, Republicans suddenly can’t seem to stop talking about, admonishing and even threatening Jews.

This places Jewish Republicans in a bind: Will they side with their party and its deep roster of candidates, who are trafficking in subtle and unsubtle forms of antisemitism? Or will they speak out against bigotry and adhere to a more traditional Jewish-American ethos of placing the safety of the entire community first and foremost?

Right now, it looks like they’re taking the low road of putting up with antisemitism out of partisan commitment, and neglecting to consider how dangerous of a wager they’re making.

This choice confronts them almost daily. A few days back, Rebbie Mastriano, the wife of Republican Senate candidate Doug Mastriano of Pennsylvania, commented that she and her husband “probably love Israel more than a lot of Jews do.” This past Sunday in Nevada, Jewish Insider broke the story that a former paid staff member of Nevada Republican Senate candidate Adam Laxalt was tweeting about Judaism being a cult. Mark Finchem, a Republican candidate for secretary of state in Arizona, drones on about George Soros and other Jews he considers unpatriotic. The Jewish Telegraphic Agency recently reported that a Texas GOP congressional candidate wrote a 2020 novel about Anne Frank that explores the possibility that the beloved Holocaust martyr was Christ-curious.

Opinion | The alarming rise in Jewish Republicans tolerating antisemitism

The GOP is trafficking in open antisemitism. Republican Jews who refuse to speak up are making a dangerous wager.

www.msnbc.com

LOL, Trump did more for Jews than almost any modern American president of the last 50 years. How is this news?

 

[Methodical Management]

I thought "Hilter actually liked black people a lot" would be the worst take coming out of this situation

But saying that we should brutalize black people that get out of line like they are slaves, and that is somehow pro-black idea, is running a close second

Anti-cancel culture backlash in general tends to quickly reveal itself as hypocritical and unprincipled.

It ultimately boils down to, "I don't like your negative opinions about my negative opinions about you," promoting censorship of the censorious.
Look at Elon Musk threatening a "nuclear name and shame" of companies who reduce ad spending on Twitter, ongoing efforts to ban historically accurate textbooks, and conservatives passing anti-BDS laws. So much for the free market.

Then you have people claiming that there is some obligation to defend anything Ye or Kyrie says for the sake of "unity." Evidently, this same unconditional loyalty does not extend to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Malika Andrews, or Drake - so it appears that only selected outrage constitutes "selective outrage."

It's yet another reminder that the "free speech" crowd is primarily committed to the consequence-free assertion of their own favored biases - and nothing else.

Thread. Nuanced thread worth reading.
Speaks on what a few of us have mentioned. (Whiteness / racism)

This is what I find especially baffling about these sorts of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

White Americans comprise nearly 40% of the US population - and many of them will be voting tomorrow to try and cement minority rule on this country for generations to come. White Christian Nationalists have engaged in an unceasing campaign of terrorist violence since the time of colonial settlement to maintain sociopolitical dominance.

Why, rather than focus on them, actively ally with this group in scapegoating the roughly 2% of the US population who identifies as Jewish - including those who are not White? It makes no sense.


We need to acknowledge the role of ethnic queuing and White skin privilege in bestowing relative privilege upon White Jewish people without denying or minimizing the persistence/perniciousness of anti-Semitism and its effects on Jewish people as a whole. Racism is bad because racism is bad; not because some tiny subgroup of White people also derives some benefit from it.

It is frustrating to encounter disparities and double standards - and these most frequently occur when people only care or care more about something that happens to a group with which they personally identify.
I cannot find any utility in "opposing" such hypocrisy by practicing it.

Those defending Kyrie and Ye right now are finding common cause with the very people who howled in protest when Disney was placing content warnings on its own racist movies or casting a Black woman as "The Little Mermaid."
If you expect them to repay the favor, you're in for a long wait.

What does, "How can I be antisemitic when I'm semite?" mean to you?

In the context of the film/book, it tends to mean "I can't be anti-Semitic because the people I don't like aren't the real Semites,” which is a bit like the Jordan Peterson claiming that Michael Eric Dyson is “actually not black - he was sort of brown.”

By that standard, the Tree of Life synagogue shooting couldn't have been an anti-Semitic hate crime if the victims were White.


It's an especially odd belief to hold if you think that the whole of humanity originates from Adam and Eve.

This actually has less in common with Old Testament beliefs than with Enlightenment-era "scientific racism." I'm the furthest thing from a religious scholar, so I'll excerpt George Frederickson's Racism: A Short History:


"The theory of polygenesis, or multiple human origins, challenged the orthodox doctrine of a single creation and “one blood” for all of humanity and could be applied in an extremely racist fashion. If Adam and Eve were to be thought of as simply white rather than specifically Jewish, and if the pre-Adamites were considered black and inferior (somewhere between the descendants of Adam and the beasts of the field created earlier), Africans could be even more effectively dehumanized than through the invocation of the Hamitic curse. Such doctrines might find some oblique support in Scripture (whence, for example, came the people in the Land of Nod among whom Cain found a wife?), but they remained difficult to reconcile with the orthodox reading of the book of Genesis. The theory of polygenesis would thrive only when the power of biblical literalism declined.

The modern concept of races as basic human types classified by physical characteristics (primarily skin color) was not invented until the eighteenth century. The term for “race” in Western European languages did have relevant antecedent meanings associated with animal husbandry and aristocratic lineages.”

 

[tomdiginson]

No, I am not

I am asking you to be clear

BTW, but most Jewish Americans are of white European descent. Which would mostly make them white.

Jewish Americans in 2020

What does it mean to be Jewish in America? A new Pew Research Center survey looks into this diverse group.

www.pewresearch.org

So if you are just talking about white Jews, you are making judgments about the overwhelming majority of them

This is what you said...




So if you are saying here you were just talking about those of European descent, you are talking about the overwhelming majority of them. Which would be making a general comment

If you are saying you are not talking about all of those of European descent, only "some" of them, then it is a fair question to ask specifically who are the subgroups. Because you only mentioned one subgroup, people asked you for the others because you said there were others.

But you can't have it both ways.

Nazlew asked if I was referring to Hasidic. I said not only them. White American Jews are not only Hasidic. I also let it be known that the racism is coming from those of European descent. I made certain to statet its not all, but enough of it comes from them where it is visibily noticeable. You can dance around it to down play their racist behavior by trying to mince words, but regardless of what you're going to say and quote, they definitely have their moments when they are racist towards the black man. Whether it be preying on them with predatory loans with hidden fine print to ultimately usurp prime property(as seen throughout NYC), discrimination when it comes to affordable housing(Was on the news where an entire community of them were in uproar because a massive affordable housing development was being built and they did not want any blacks or hispanics) , to physical violence inflicted upon them(theyve beaten several black and Hispanics under false pretenses) , and using racist in nature language towards them(as also seen on the news).