Most Overrated "Legend" In Music.

[air spider 777]

I never said Elvis was first to do anything. I'm just simply saying he helped bring Rock n Roll to the forefront. Because it was ******** that it was hanging around for so long and just because these great black artists were black, they couldnt get any airplay. Elvis broke down the barrier and for that and all the other accomplishments he did during his career, he is in fact a legend and a talented legend at that.


And Little Richard. He's Little Richard. Nothing more you can say about that. Saw that movie about his life story. How he didnt get killed in the south for his style and dress, I will never know. lol

 

[b smooth 202]

So you are talking about JAY-Z then.

no he's not

 

[air spider 777]

Oh, Elvis is a legend, but only because he was a white guy singing Black music, and nothing more. There was a danger about that, a sexiness that White American girls could not ignore. He was misbehaving, being naughty! The establishment would not allow Berry, Richard, Brown, attain that sort of attention, as race mixing was not acceptable. Little white girls screaming in public for a black man during the fifties? Unacceptable. Bull Conner wasn't having it. But a white hillbilly singin' sped up blues, a good lookin' guy at that?
Jackpot.
Did you read the Life and Times of Little Richard? Great read, fun book. The gay road shows in that time were a fully accepted form of entertainment.
There's also a great story about how Richard let Buddy Holly bone his wife right before going on stage...

I would like your opinion on something. So you think that Elvis' voice has nothing to do with him being a legend? And his accomplishments?

And no I did not read that book. I'll have to pick that up. I love books about music legends. And LMAO at the last part.

 

[air spider 777]

Before his voice, came the color of his skin. That's what opened doors for him, the privilege that he was afforded. There were others who were singing the music before him that had an even better instrument. I mentioned Clyde McPhatter of the Dominoes, but not many know about him, and there is a reason for that. Sam Cooke comes to mind, as do a few others.
Now I can say this, he had a distinctive voice, one that was and is easily identifiable, but getting constant airplay, exposure lends itself to this as well. Elvis was not allowed to fail. He was an industry, so he was the first artist to be pushed toward an audience.
It's probably what killed him as well.
On a lighter note....

Thats true about the color of his skin playing a role. But I would think his talent had to keep him at the top. At least I think that would be the case.. It was def possible for him to have his first couple hits and that was it. But no he had it all. The looks, the charisma and the voice.

Now as far as what killed him goes, career wise what killed him was staying with the Col. as his manager. Once he became established, there was no need for Elvis to keep him around. The Col rode that gravy train until he couldnt anymore. Between not allowing Elvis to go perform internationally, making him do those movies, having crazy royalty demands, and putting him in Vegas for all those shows all those years, that's what killed his career. So many great songs could have been done but with the Col's demands from the songwriters as far as royalties go, no wonder it was rare when Elvis got great material. You want the songwriter to give up 50% of the royalties just so Elvis can cover it? Are you mad? Prime example was Dolly Parton wanted Elvis to sing "I Will Always Love You" but due to the demands by the Col, she wouldnt give the song and I dont blame her. Elvis putting everything business wise in the Col's hands was insane because he knew nothing about it. Too bad Elvis didnt have Steve Binder (producer of the 68 Comeback Special) take over as his manager. That would have been interesting.

And as far as what killed him literally, well, you're right. Getting caught up in that fame (drugs especially). I dont think I would have wanted Elvis' level of fame. You're a prisoner of your own success. You cant go anywhere. Same thing happened with MJ.

Just a shame. What a talent wasted. Just another example.


Nice convo between us AKA.

 

[ruxxx]

I didn't know JB gave Kool & The Gang props like that...

He was right.

The Meters are up there too.

 

[heshua]

Oh, Elvis is a legend, but only because he was a white guy singing Black music, and nothing more. There was a danger about that, a sexiness that White American girls could not ignore. He was misbehaving, being naughty! The establishment would not allow Berry, Richard, Brown, attain that sort of attention, as race mixing was not acceptable. Little white girls screaming in public for a black man during the fifties? Unacceptable. Bull Conner wasn't having it. But a white hillbilly singin' sped up blues, a good lookin' guy at that?
Jackpot.
Did you read the Life and Times of Little Richard? Great read, fun book. The gay road shows in that time were a fully accepted form of entertainment.
There's also a great story about how Richard let Buddy Holly bone his wife right before going on stage...

that's the only reason. Not because he was actually talented, could sing any music and dance. Ok fam. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[air spider 777]

We'll agree to disagree. lol

I still think that to maintain that popularity you HAVE to have talent.

 

[air spider 777]

Okay, if that is the case, then someone must explain to me why Rush Limbaugh is so popular among a certain segment of the population.

Radio is much different than being a singer.

All the acts in the music business that have legendary status have stood the test of time. Look at the disco artists for example. You could remember the song but the artist you dont remember.

And in the poltics/radio business, if you're popular within a certain demographic, doesnt mean you're necessarily talented. Look at Howard Stern. He has no alent yet he's popular with idiots.

 

[beh235]

This thread won't end well

This x 1,000,000

That being said.....

Jay Z

He's definitely not trash, but not what people make him out to be. I been saying this for years AND I'm from Brooklyn. You can't convince anyone from Brooklyn Hov ain't that dude

Snoop Dogg. Homie hasn't had a good album since "The Blue Carpet Treatment".

I completely agree. I forgot what thread it was, but dude were saying he been wack for 20 years? O really? I would say his career is more of a disappointment, much like how I feel about Nas.

 

[air spider 777]

We were discussing talent and popularity, were we not? You said that one must have some talent, in order to maintain popularity. We both know that some incredibly stupid things remain popular, albeit useless, for many reasons.
Not that Elvis was snake oil, but he wasn't The Real McCoy.

Yeah I did say to maintain popularity you have to have some talent. In the music business.

Radio is totally different IMO. Like I said how are Rush Limbaugh and Stern still popular for some ungodly reason(s). The ******** of people who listen to them are idiots. But as I said music is different.

 

[air spider 777]

How much you want to bet that a whole lot of Limbaugh fans, are actually Elvis fans as well?
I am joking, but being incredibly serious at the same time here....

While that may be true. Elvis has fans from all walks of life all over the world. And as far as Limbaugh goes, he can **** off. ******g guy thinks he's God. Always talking morality yet he's a womanizer and abuses RX pills. LMAO

 

[air spider 777]

I'm just sayin'! Do you know anyone from Harlem who'll say they think that Elvis is still alive?
I saw him eating fried chicken at Sylvia's!

Lets not joke about Sylvia's.

I like that place. lol

 

[firepower]

Not that Elvis was snake oil, but he wasn't The Real McCoy.

I'm sorry, but a list of your musical heroes as long as your arm disagree with you.

A list of people who say Elvis was trash...

AKALONGSTROKE

GatorBeltsNPattieMelts

Now let's compare with a list of people who say Elvis was one of the most talented individuals they ever met and/or influenced/inspired them...

James Brown

Little Richard

Jackie Wilson

Sammy Davies JR

Muhammad Ali

Prince

Michael Jackson 

The Beatles

Elton John

Bob Dylan

Al Green

Carl Perkins

B. B. King

Ivory Joe Hunter

Fats Domino

The Rolling Stones

Buddy Holly

Jerry Lee Lewis

Bruce Springsteen

I mean I respect your opinion and all but....

 

[solarius49]

I'm pretty much a hip hop head, with some 90's alt rock mixed in, but recently I've head some Pink Floyd and Beatles that really struck me as dope. Somebody point me in the right direction!

 

[firepower]

Sgt Peppers, Rubber Soul, the White album, With the Beatles, I mean they have one of the most perfect discography's in music...

But since I got accused of not posting any examples for Elvis, one of my favorite "session" albums is "Live at the BBC"

And appropriately enough, they sing covers of Elvis, Little Richard, Chuck Berry to name a few, as well as some of their own classics...

As far as Pink Floyd go...

funnily enough they were one of the main reasons I checked into this thread in the first place because I was actually going to mention them before all this Elvis talk flared up lol

I just can't get into Floyd no matter how much I try. And yet I absolutely LOVE similar stuff such as Led Zep and Deep Purple etc.

I like a handful of their singles, Another brick in the wall, Comfortably Numb etc.

But I always struggle to listen to a whole album -about 15 mins in, it becomes like white noise to me 

 

[air spider 777]

First of all, at no point did I even come close to calling, nor suggesting that Elvis Presley was trash.
Why would you even come onto what was a civil discussion, then even attempt to stoke a fire in that manner?
Secondly, all the people you've named, would also state that they would absolutely SMOKE Elvis, if he'd ever try and share a stage with them. Then for whatever reason, you threw Muhammad Ali in there, as if that would give you some added cred?
|I
Let's be real, each and every one of those entertainers, the artists and athlete, would be the first ones to tell you that if Elvis were not White, that he'd be sitting right at the back of the bus with the rest of us, when it came time for us to get a fair shake, especially during the fifties.
So you want to know who stands by me in this line of reasoning? A list of Civil Rights HEROES that is as long as MY arm.

Found a video that was made as a suggestion by youtube after that video of how Elvis stole Hound Dog was posted here.



Elvis and Muhammad were friends. Elvis had a Robe made for Ali.



I mean honestly I dont think Elvis thought hey, I'm gonna get ahead of everyone because I'm white. Because I honestly think Elvis didnt see it as black and white. I dont think he knew walking into Sun Records that he was the first white guy to sound black, as Sam Phillips put it.

And honestly I believe those entertainers would love to share a stage with Elvis. Because a true artist wouldnt look at it as a skin color thing. They would see the talent first.

 

[b smooth 202]

it frustrates me how white people will be fans/supporters of our genre, our struggle, and our cultural expressions...but when its time to acknowledge it for what it is....they're in complete denial...whatever yo...thanks a lot!

 

[shorty doo wop]

He's definitely not trash, but not what people make him out to be. I been saying this for years AND I'm from Brooklyn. You can't convince anyone from Brooklyn Hov ain't that dude

Too much real life

I feel like if Jay wasn't as big a celebrity as he is he would not be considered as great as he is viewed now

 

[firepower]

First of all, at no point did I even come close to calling, nor suggesting that Elvis Presley was trash.
Why would you even come onto what was a civil discussion, then even attempt to stoke a fire in that manner?
Secondly, all the people you've named, would also state that they would absolutely SMOKE Elvis, if he'd ever try and share a stage with them. Then for whatever reason, you threw Muhammad Ali in there, as if that would give you some added cred?

Let's be real, each and every one of those entertainers, the artists and athlete, would be the first ones to tell you that if Elvis were not White, that he'd be sitting right at the back of the bus with the rest of us, when it came time for us to get a fair shake, especially during the fifties.
So you want to know who stands by me in this line of reasoning? A list of Civil Rights HEROES that is as long as MY arm.

Yes, I purposely threw Ali in there for that specific reason -or as he called himself  "The Elvis of boxing" 

And I would be the first person to say that if Elvis had been born black in the 1930s he more than likely would have struggled in whatever  life path he chose. No-one is debating that and they never have.

But it's a moot point and obsolete argument ...the trouble is that it's also the ONLY argument you have against Elvis.

The whole crux of this argument in the first place was did Elvis steal black music? ...and it has been debunked time and time again, but your ONLY argument against him is his skin color

...that is why it has no merit.

 

[firepower]

That is one of the ways, that White privilege works. Those who benefit from it the most, don't even have to acknowledge it, it's just there.
Would they share a stage with Elvis, of course! I I know what James Brown would do, especially during his prime. he'd make sure that Elvis Presley would never want to be onstage with him again! He'd embarrass him! The mark of a true entertainer, is to never, ever, let the opposition upstage you, or take over your stage, this is a fact among older musicians. It's not a race thing, it's an ego thing.

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I like how you claim to know what James Brown would do

I would conjecture that JB would not want to embarrass one of his closest friends on stage...

 

[air spider 777]

Yes, I purposely threw Ali in there for that specific reason -or as he called himself  "The Elvis of boxing" 

And I would be the first person to say that if Elvis had been born black in the 1930s he more than likely would have struggled in whatever life path he chose. No-one is debating that and they never have.
But it's a moot point and obsolete argument ...the trouble is that it's also the ONLY argument you have against Elvis.


The whole crux of this argument in the first place was did Elvis steal black music? ...and it has been debunked time and time again, but your ONLY argument against him is his skin color

...that is why it has no merit.

I agree. Had he been born black he would have struggled.

What I was saying is that his talent kept him at the top. Because if you dont have talent and released nice songs, you're not staying at the top like Elvis did for so many years. Elvis in my opinion was the greatest of all time. As an entertainer in general he's one and MJ is second (but I will not argue with you if you say its the other way because I respect MJ). Now as far as pure voice goes its again Elvis number one and Roy Orbison number two.

 

[firepower]

No, that is not a part of the discussion that we were having. I didn't say that he stole anything, just like I never said that he was trash.
I said that he wasn't doing anything any better than any of the other Black artists of that time, and the only reason he got over first, lies in the fact that has was WHITE. Little Richard and Chuck Berry were the first, but they would never get the praise back then.
This is a fact of a segregated society, one that caters to white privilege first, and Elvis Presley benefited GREATLY from that privilege.
Also, how would I claim to know what James Brown would do? Well first off, James Brown knew how to say what to whom, especially in front of the cameras. Secondly, if you do your research, James Brown only met Elvis Presley on a few occasions, and Elvis did not extend the courtesy. James WANTED to meet Elvis, and their camps tried to hook it up. Every time James would call Elvis, his handlers, Parker being on of them, would say that Elvis was sleeping. Parker felt that being seen with someone like James Brown in public would be bad for Elvis's image, KNOWING full well what James Brown was capable of.
There was a singer named Joe Tex, whom while trying to embarrass Brown in the early sixties, donned a patchwork cape made of dirty rags during one of his performances, he then fell to his knees, screaming Please, Please, Please in complete mockery. Months earlier, James had taken Tex's lady, then made her his. James got wind of this, then showed up to the club, and began to shoot up the show, injuring several people. They had to pay people off in order to quell lawsuits. James Brown wanted to obliterate his comp, and did just that. He did it to Jackie Wilson as well. Watch the vid with Micheal Jackson, someone who was like a son to him, and watch Brown retake command of the stage.
James Brown saying that he was a friend of Elvis Presley was completely made up, and there is plenty evidence pointing to that in several writings, and that includes Elvis's biography.

See, people like you like to come on and then love to scream that someone is not being fair due to Elvis's being white.
Well, when did being White ever stop White artists from ACCEPTING that hand up, then becoming successful?

Christ this is too easy!

So I post a video of James Brown himself saying that he was good friends with Elvis -but you turn around and say he just made that up for the cameras as if you have intimate knowledge about JB that no-one else does because you read his auto-biography 

Ok man 

Then you say Elvis didn't want to meet JB ...next it's "his handlers" that didn't want him to meet JB ....make your mind up.

And yes, we all know how Col. Parker handled Elvis and it is true that he not only tried to stop JB from meeting Elvis but many other black artists too, but how dare you try to word that as if it was Elvis himself who didn't want to "extend the courtesy -that just shows where you're coming from and are desperate to discredit the man anyway you can.

-Whilst they were both performing at the International Hotel Vegas ....they hooked up whenever possible -do your research.

Then you recite a story about Joe Tex which bears no relation to Elvis and James Brown's relationship -Elvis never tried to embarrass JB and JB didn't sleep with Elvis' lady.

And you wanna talk about capes? where do you think Elvis got his inspiration to wear a cape from? Elvis studded his with diamonds ....hardly what I would call "mockery"

Then you say watch the vid with MJ -please show me where James Brown tries to embarrass either MJ or Prince in that video, because to me it looked as if he was having a fantastic time on stage with them and enjoying their performances as well as doing his own thing ....it certainly didn't seem as if he was trying to embarrass them, nor did it seem as if he viewed them as "the opposition"

And then once again, you state that Elvis' and JB's friendship was completely made up.... 

Tell me, who was the first person to arrive for Elvis' funeral?

Who asked if he could spend some time alone in private with Elvis' body so that he could pay his own personal respects to his "soul brother"?

I'm sure you don't need me to tell you the answer.

Then it's back to the race issue again, which I have already stated numerous times in this thread: NO-ONE is denying the oppression black people faced, that is not the argument ....YOU are the only person who is bringing that debate to the table.

                                                                                                                                                                             

At  the end of the day, whatever we have to say about it in this thread

The FACT is that the vast majority of black musicians, entertainers, scholars and civil rights campaigners ALL agree that Elvis opened the doors and broke down barriers on all fronts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_impact_of_Elvis_Presley#African_American_music_influence

...there is only a small number of ethnocentric, racially prejudice people who still persist with this notion that he had no right to do so because he was white.

 

[space doodoo pistols]

Paul Simon. I always felt he was lousy.

 

[Lunden]

I'm sorry, but a list of your musical heroes as long as your arm disagree with you.


A list of people who say Elvis was trash...

AKALONGSTROKE
GatorBeltsNPattieMelts


Now let's compare with a list of people who say Elvis was one of the most talented individuals they ever met and/or influenced/inspired them...

James Brown
Little Richard
Jackie Wilson
Sammy Davies JR
Muhammad Ali
Prince
Michael Jackson 
The Beatles
Elton John
Bob Dylan
Al Green
Carl Perkins
B. B. King
Ivory Joe Hunter
Fats Domino
The Rolling Stones
Buddy Holly
Jerry Lee Lewis
Bruce Springsteen

I mean I respect your opinion and all but....

uhh you think these people are just gonna come out and say "elvis is this and elvis is that" just talking bad about Elvis?

its a image thing to be politically correct

Beyonce probably cant stand a lot of stuff or people but when they ask her about it in a interview you can bet she gonna put on that fake smile and act like she loves it

Man I bet money James Brown and his band was probably like "mannnnnn look at this fool" then when the cameras rolling Mr. Brown how you feel about Elvis "Elvis is a legend and so on......"

This happens in the industry a lot

 

[marcushatten]

Drake WILL be a legend simply because, whether anyone likes it or not, he did change the game. EVERYONE sings their own hooks now. EVERYONE is making melodic, soft **** more often than they used to. We're in an era of simp **** and high end lifestyle rap. Drake brought singing and rapping your own hook to the mainstream better than Pimp C, better than Max B. I personally feel they did it 8984561897x better, but, I'm not gonna let some personal gripe I have with Drake cloud the fact of what he's done.
Drake is just Ja Rule 2.0. If Ja was around right now, people would be bumping all that soft *** music he was making.

Ja Rule was one of the worst rappers of all time, hes just above nelly. And pimp c and Max B might be popular but they arent musical legends