My Gay Friends: Please stop comparing your plight to civil rights.

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

I'm honestly not sure what the title of this thread is referring to so I'll go about this two ways. 
First of all, contrary to what this thread title literally states, the LBGT community in the United States is fighting for their civil rights. There is much more at stake than being able to say that two people are married. There are legal issues that come with marriage rights that are denied to gay couples, and this is undoubtedly a civil rights issue. It is a question of equality for all citizens of the United States and just because you may not agree with or personally partake in the lifestyle does not give you the right to deny someone else theirs. 

Secondly, if we're simply comparing this to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s then there is a point. African Americans and other minority groups certainly did struggle through enormous amounts of opposition, but so has the LBGT community. Many states still had sodomy laws on the books up until the late 80s-early 2000s and they were only completely struck down in 2003 by the Supreme Court. The first state to grant same sex marriages didn't do so until 2004. As for struggle, the plight of homosexuals in New York City as well as other places in the United States is well documented in the book about the Stonewall Riots by David Carter. This includes discrimination on a large scale by the NYPD for as little as wearing sexually ambiguous clothing. There were also instances in other parts of the country in the recent past of homosexuals being put in mental institutions to be "fixed." In some cases the "treatment" was as extreme as forced lobotomies, and in others, castration. This "reprogramming" still goes on today, but is largely carried out by extreme religious organizations.

So, just because you aren't aware of the struggles of another group of people doesn't mean they didn't take place.

Quoting myself because I'm fairly certain many of you don't actually know the struggles of homosexuals in this country.

 

[grizzlyboy]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by proper english

Originally Posted by Grizzlyboy

Racism and Discrimination are two totally different and historically independent subjects and they should not be crossed.

the hell 

is this comment real? 

Honestly considering all the utter stupidity you've heard in this thread, are you really THAT surprised?

I did not explain myself in full and deserve to be classified with the rest of the foolishness. 

Although I feel strongly about the statement I made and disagree with the common definition of the two, I will allow you all to carry on without adding any additional fire to this discussion.

 

[grizzlyboy]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by proper english

Originally Posted by Grizzlyboy

Racism and Discrimination are two totally different and historically independent subjects and they should not be crossed.

the hell 

is this comment real? 

Honestly considering all the utter stupidity you've heard in this thread, are you really THAT surprised?

I did not explain myself in full and deserve to be classified with the rest of the foolishness. 

Although I feel strongly about the statement I made and disagree with the common definition of the two, I will allow you all to carry on without adding any additional fire to this discussion.

 

[wr]

Originally Posted by spacerace

Originally Posted by Grizzlyboy

Racism and Discrimination are two totally different and historically independent subjects and they should not be crossed.

Definition of Discrimination:



The act, practice, or instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually 




Definition of Racism:




Racial Prejudice or discrimination

Oh.

not that simple

discrimination = The state of being discriminated, distinguished from, or set apart
racism= The state of being discriminated, distinguished from, or set apart based on race

you discriminate every day. You descriminated whether to wake up this morning, or stay asleep. To ponder whether to brush your teeth then eat, or eat then brush your teeth is discrimination.  so to all you trolls out there, yes they are two separate subjects. If you don't see it, then you're just being silly and dumb 

 

[wr]

Originally Posted by spacerace

Originally Posted by Grizzlyboy

Racism and Discrimination are two totally different and historically independent subjects and they should not be crossed.

Definition of Discrimination:



The act, practice, or instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually 




Definition of Racism:




Racial Prejudice or discrimination

Oh.

not that simple

discrimination = The state of being discriminated, distinguished from, or set apart
racism= The state of being discriminated, distinguished from, or set apart based on race

you discriminate every day. You descriminated whether to wake up this morning, or stay asleep. To ponder whether to brush your teeth then eat, or eat then brush your teeth is discrimination.  so to all you trolls out there, yes they are two separate subjects. If you don't see it, then you're just being silly and dumb 

 

[hop]

iYen wrote:

Originally Posted by Hop

This is bull. I know homosexuals don't have it "good", but the injustices they suffer don't compare to anything African Americans have suffered in America. That "As if you suffered the same injustices" argument is idiotic and the people who usually fall back on this argument do so out of desperation (desperate to win an argument). No, we haven't suffered these injustices that are ancestors have, but I DO know that homosexuals don't have separate bathrooms, didn't experience slavery, have never had to fight for their right to vote, and are not considered 3/5's of a person.
I do hope that homosexuals win their battle for equal rights, but your whole statement is just stupid.

The injustices that blacks face today aren't as bad as the injustices gays face today in countries like Nigeria, Uganda, and South Africa.
I'm not trying to win an argument.
I'm only here to post my opinion and discuss with those willing to listen.
I'm not here to debate or straw man other people's arguments.

Why are you classifying injustices done to groups in an effort to do what?
Prove that gay's struggles and black's struggles shouldn't be compared?
What does that accomplish?


1) Yes you are trying to "win" (maybe the wrong word) an argument or you wouldn't post your opinions.

2) OP of this thread is talking about the comparison of the Civil Rights of African Americans to struggle in America in comparison to homosexuals struggle for civil rights as of now.  Were not comparing the treatment of homosexuals now to African Americans now.  Yes, homosexuals are discriminated against in other countries but the thread is about them comparing their treatment in America.

3)"Prove that gay's struggles and black's struggles shouldn't be compared?What does that accomplish?" Then why are you posting in this thread? They shouldn't be compared because they are different; its not a #%$ measuring contest like some NT'ers try to make it. I agree that it's just stupid to compare who had worst, but I don't believe that was the point the op was making. ( if any...) 

Its all love though for you iYen

. I respect all of your views just don't agree with some of them.

 

[hop]

iYen wrote:

Originally Posted by Hop

This is bull. I know homosexuals don't have it "good", but the injustices they suffer don't compare to anything African Americans have suffered in America. That "As if you suffered the same injustices" argument is idiotic and the people who usually fall back on this argument do so out of desperation (desperate to win an argument). No, we haven't suffered these injustices that are ancestors have, but I DO know that homosexuals don't have separate bathrooms, didn't experience slavery, have never had to fight for their right to vote, and are not considered 3/5's of a person.
I do hope that homosexuals win their battle for equal rights, but your whole statement is just stupid.

The injustices that blacks face today aren't as bad as the injustices gays face today in countries like Nigeria, Uganda, and South Africa.
I'm not trying to win an argument.
I'm only here to post my opinion and discuss with those willing to listen.
I'm not here to debate or straw man other people's arguments.

Why are you classifying injustices done to groups in an effort to do what?
Prove that gay's struggles and black's struggles shouldn't be compared?
What does that accomplish?


1) Yes you are trying to "win" (maybe the wrong word) an argument or you wouldn't post your opinions.

2) OP of this thread is talking about the comparison of the Civil Rights of African Americans to struggle in America in comparison to homosexuals struggle for civil rights as of now.  Were not comparing the treatment of homosexuals now to African Americans now.  Yes, homosexuals are discriminated against in other countries but the thread is about them comparing their treatment in America.

3)"Prove that gay's struggles and black's struggles shouldn't be compared?What does that accomplish?" Then why are you posting in this thread? They shouldn't be compared because they are different; its not a #%$ measuring contest like some NT'ers try to make it. I agree that it's just stupid to compare who had worst, but I don't believe that was the point the op was making. ( if any...) 

Its all love though for you iYen

. I respect all of your views just don't agree with some of them.

 

[iYen]

Originally Posted by Hop


1) Yes you are trying to "win" (maybe the wrong word) an argument or you wouldn't post your opinions.

2) OP of this thread is talking about the comparison of the Civil Rights of African Americans to struggle in America in comparison to homosexuals struggle for civil rights as of now.  Were not comparing the treatment of homosexuals now to African Americans now.  Yes, homosexuals are discriminated against in other countries but the thread is about them comparing their treatment in America.

3)"Prove that gay's struggles and black's struggles shouldn't be compared?What does that accomplish?" Then why are you posting in this thread? They shouldn't be compared because they are different; its not a #%$ measuring contest like some NT'ers try to make it. I agree that it's just stupid to compare who had worst, but I don't believe that was the point the op was making. ( if any...) 

Its all love though for you iYen

. I respect all of your views just don't agree with some of them.

1. No, I'm not, this is a discussion and I hope you see it that way.
3. They are different but I think they should be compared because as I've stated before both groups are striving to achieve the same thing, equality.

 

[iYen]

Originally Posted by Hop


1) Yes you are trying to "win" (maybe the wrong word) an argument or you wouldn't post your opinions.

2) OP of this thread is talking about the comparison of the Civil Rights of African Americans to struggle in America in comparison to homosexuals struggle for civil rights as of now.  Were not comparing the treatment of homosexuals now to African Americans now.  Yes, homosexuals are discriminated against in other countries but the thread is about them comparing their treatment in America.

3)"Prove that gay's struggles and black's struggles shouldn't be compared?What does that accomplish?" Then why are you posting in this thread? They shouldn't be compared because they are different; its not a #%$ measuring contest like some NT'ers try to make it. I agree that it's just stupid to compare who had worst, but I don't believe that was the point the op was making. ( if any...) 

Its all love though for you iYen

. I respect all of your views just don't agree with some of them.

1. No, I'm not, this is a discussion and I hope you see it that way.
3. They are different but I think they should be compared because as I've stated before both groups are striving to achieve the same thing, equality.

 

[proper english]

Wr.. you Johnny Cochran type $%^&* $%^&* 

were aware of the definition.. but you know damn well nobody uses discriminate in that fashion. 

 

[proper english]

Wr.. you Johnny Cochran type $%^&* $%^&* 

were aware of the definition.. but you know damn well nobody uses discriminate in that fashion. 

 

[|A-Man|]

I'm all for polygamy in marriage. If one religion is allowed to might as well make it a right to all.

I think the main obstacle it's not some national right is the financial implications, loop holes, etc. that can come with it.

 

[|A-Man|]

I'm all for polygamy in marriage. If one religion is allowed to might as well make it a right to all.

I think the main obstacle it's not some national right is the financial implications, loop holes, etc. that can come with it.

 

[wr]

If you are black and have dealt with racial discrimination first hand, this whole comparison is obnoxious. If you are on the outside looking in, you're just speculating. You're like a basketball commentator whose feet never even touched the court. People in general need to stop trying to tell black people how to behave. black people are not the children of all other races and groups so why does the dialogue continue to address us as so. We feel how we feel about it. Get over it, or try to make race relations better. If you're trying to level with a black person and all that comes out your mouth is about how black people got it good now, black people don't suffer no more, the first thing you're going to do is piss that black person off. This is not some chapter out of your history book dedicated to black history month. This is real life. My grand parents were civil rights activist. My parents where too. i've struggled for civil rights for my peers even to this day. Black people were getting fire hosed to the point of flesh being ripped off the body out in the streets just for equal treatment by the very same people we are supposed to look towards for protection (police, firefighters). Do you know what that does to the psyche of a group of people. It breeds distrust and low self esteem. Even more so because of the fact that these images of these events have been broadcasted around the world for years and was viewed as acceptable behavior.

I have never seen gay people hosed by the fire and police departments on tv.
I have never seen gay population centers bombed and destroyed by military action ordered by state governors and mayors.
I have never seen gay people have dogs sicked on them on tv.

The history of black people's civil rights in this country is at best a mockery.
I'm speaking "only in America"

 

[wr]

If you are black and have dealt with racial discrimination first hand, this whole comparison is obnoxious. If you are on the outside looking in, you're just speculating. You're like a basketball commentator whose feet never even touched the court. People in general need to stop trying to tell black people how to behave. black people are not the children of all other races and groups so why does the dialogue continue to address us as so. We feel how we feel about it. Get over it, or try to make race relations better. If you're trying to level with a black person and all that comes out your mouth is about how black people got it good now, black people don't suffer no more, the first thing you're going to do is piss that black person off. This is not some chapter out of your history book dedicated to black history month. This is real life. My grand parents were civil rights activist. My parents where too. i've struggled for civil rights for my peers even to this day. Black people were getting fire hosed to the point of flesh being ripped off the body out in the streets just for equal treatment by the very same people we are supposed to look towards for protection (police, firefighters). Do you know what that does to the psyche of a group of people. It breeds distrust and low self esteem. Even more so because of the fact that these images of these events have been broadcasted around the world for years and was viewed as acceptable behavior.

I have never seen gay people hosed by the fire and police departments on tv.
I have never seen gay population centers bombed and destroyed by military action ordered by state governors and mayors.
I have never seen gay people have dogs sicked on them on tv.

The history of black people's civil rights in this country is at best a mockery.
I'm speaking "only in America"

 

[wr]

Originally Posted by proper english

Wr.. you Johnny Cochran type $%^&* $%^&* 

were aware of the definition.. but you know damn well nobody uses discriminate in that fashion. 

that's because we have hybridized the meaning of it and took it from it's original context. Our faulty and inconsistent use of language is what further leads to our disconnect with one another. Our definitions for words and vague and ambiguous, no wonder nobody can agree on anything...

 

[wr]

Originally Posted by proper english

Wr.. you Johnny Cochran type $%^&* $%^&* 

were aware of the definition.. but you know damn well nobody uses discriminate in that fashion. 

that's because we have hybridized the meaning of it and took it from it's original context. Our faulty and inconsistent use of language is what further leads to our disconnect with one another. Our definitions for words and vague and ambiguous, no wonder nobody can agree on anything...

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by proper english

Wr.. you Johnny Cochran type $%^&* $%^&* 

were aware of the definition.. but you know damn well nobody uses discriminate in that fashion. 

Dudes in here are go hards, out there somewhere is a white man making the same bull#%%$ excuses and justifications about racism against black people.

Ignore what happens in the rest of the world, because America has become more progressive. It's almost like they WANT America to take a step back into the dark ages so gay people can get hosed down and chased by dogs.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by proper english

Wr.. you Johnny Cochran type $%^&* $%^&* 

were aware of the definition.. but you know damn well nobody uses discriminate in that fashion. 

Dudes in here are go hards, out there somewhere is a white man making the same bull#%%$ excuses and justifications about racism against black people.

Ignore what happens in the rest of the world, because America has become more progressive. It's almost like they WANT America to take a step back into the dark ages so gay people can get hosed down and chased by dogs.

 

[whiterails]

I think that the majority of the people saying that the two can not be compared aren't looking at the entire picture of the persecution of #$!$ sexuals.  Obviously gays people now don't have it as hard as blacks circa 1850 America, but gays have been persecuted  pretty harshly if you look at it from a broader perspective than simply the (relatively) recent United States.  Gays have had it pretty rough in Europe as long the the Christian church was in power, easily 1200 years +, and don't forget that the Nazis sent a huge percentage of European gays to the gas chamber.   Just saying, it was a lot rougher for the average gay person in Nazi-occupied Poland ca 1942 than the average African American in the United States at the same time.

 

[whiterails]

I think that the majority of the people saying that the two can not be compared aren't looking at the entire picture of the persecution of #$!$ sexuals.  Obviously gays people now don't have it as hard as blacks circa 1850 America, but gays have been persecuted  pretty harshly if you look at it from a broader perspective than simply the (relatively) recent United States.  Gays have had it pretty rough in Europe as long the the Christian church was in power, easily 1200 years +, and don't forget that the Nazis sent a huge percentage of European gays to the gas chamber.   Just saying, it was a lot rougher for the average gay person in Nazi-occupied Poland ca 1942 than the average African American in the United States at the same time.

 

[ninjahood]

cats in here REACHIN for similar plights of gays to that of colored folks....

 

[ninjahood]

cats in here REACHIN for similar plights of gays to that of colored folks....

 

[lobotomybeats]

So do we have a score in the moronic 'we had it worse so how dare you say they are similar' contest yet? Can we all just agree that African Americans had it worse so we can go back to thinly veiling our homophobia?

 

[lobotomybeats]

So do we have a score in the moronic 'we had it worse so how dare you say they are similar' contest yet? Can we all just agree that African Americans had it worse so we can go back to thinly veiling our homophobia?