NFL Discussion Thread - Hall of Fame Game: August 3rd

[HEATHEN]

you said you're giving them more credit than the rest of us. that's pretty clear when you also said they were a wildcard to win the afc south. none of us are saying that they will be 2-14 bad, but 6-10 still isn't good.

that's clearly where the point of disagreement is...


I think they're capable of doing better than 6-10.


just because I'm giving 'em a better chance than most doesn't make me a colts fan.


what's was your point again? cuz I don't see any.....

 

[sonoftony]

w-t-h am im reading here?!

Colts a contender?!

Colts better than my Titans?!

Luck > Hass & Locker?

lets be cereal here, the only two front runners for the AFC South are the Titans and Texans. and SneakerHeathen, pass me whatever you smoking.

 

[do work son]

that's clearly where the point of disagreement is...
I think they're capable of doing better than 6-10.
just because I'm giving 'em a better chance than most doesn't make me a colts fan.
what's was your point again? cuz I don't see any.....

i never said you're a colts fan. and i just don't see 6-10. sure they'll be able to compete with some of the teams you listed but that doesn't mean they'll win all those games. that defense is still far too bad.

being close in the game, doesn't equate to winning the game. ask viking fans about last year.

and my point, the one you're not seeing, is that it's borderline ridiculous to think that this team with the amount of overhaul and unproven talent they have will compete to win the division.

why is it ridiculous to think that? because the texans have far fewer question marks, and came off a season ranked top 5 in rushing offense (missing arian foster for 3 games) and total defense (without demeco ryans and mario williams who were supposed to be our better players last year)

 

[kc246888]

Any team is capable of being better than 6-10 if the other team fumbles twice a game.  Same thing I already said you keep doing, using parity as an excuse for a dumb argument.  You're really making yourself sound foolish and we were just trying to save you from further embarrassment but if you want to be hard headed be my guest.  NOBODY thinks they have a shot at making the playoffs period and you think they are a wild card for the division? You like Reggie I like Andre.  Dude you are picking on the Texans, a very legitimate football team.  The tangible rebuttal is that the Vegas EXPERTS, smarter than anybody here, say they are as bad as any team in the league practically.  And you said you weren't backtracking but now you're saying all you meant was that they could be better than 6-10. I'm done with this argument your brain has done you a great disservice. It's pretty hard to see the Texans at less than 9 wins in this division and it is even harder to see the Colts getting 8 in the same season.  Your only hope is if the teams that you have thrown under the bus, Titans and Jags, play better than you say and beat the Texans.  In conclusion I hope you can see that nothing that would happen in reality would be because you were smart enough to see it coming.

 

[buc em]

The Panthers went 6-10 last season with Cam Newton having one of the greatest rookie seasons of all-time, Steve Smith at WR, Olsen and Shockey at TE, DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart at RB, a very good offensive line and atleast a decent defense. As I said before...Andrew Luck would have to be playing absolutely out of his mind and have an even better season than Cam had last year for the Colts to get even close to sniffing 6 wins this season. Their only winnable games this year are against the Jags, Vikings, Dolphins and Browns...and they aren't going to win every one of those.

 

[do work son]

The Panthers went 6-10 last season with Cam Newton having one of the greatest rookie seasons of all-time, Steve Smith at WR, Olsen and Shockey at TE, DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart at RB, a very good offensive line and atleast a decent defense. As I said before...Andrew Luck would have to be playing absolutely out of his mind and have an even better season than Cam had last year for the Colts to get even close to sniffing 6 wins this season. Their only winnable games this year are against the Jags, Vikings, Dolphins and Browns...and they aren't going to win every one of those.

stop it, you're making way too much sense. how dare you actually present a logical argument?!

 

[HEATHEN]

The Panthers went 6-10 last season with Cam Newton having one of the greatest rookie seasons of all-time, Steve Smith at WR, Olsen and Shockey at TE, DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart at RB, a very good offensive line and atleast a decent defense. As I said before...Andrew Luck would have to be playing absolutely out of his mind and have an even better season than Cam had last year for the Colts to get even close to sniffing 6 wins this season. Their only winnable games this year are against the Jags, Vikings, Dolphins and Browns...and they aren't going to win every one of those.

See now you've confirmed that you sir don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.

The Panthers had arguably THE WORST defense in the NFL last season. 32nd...


http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef


They mis-used their RBBC, Jeremy Shockey was crap and shouldn't have been sharing the workload with Olsen. I think that while they had the pieces together to be successful they were grossly mis-coached. Also the AFC South =/= NFC South.

 

[Pathos]

Luck is better than Hasselbeck right now?

 

[HEATHEN]

i never said you're a colts fan. and i just don't see 6-10. sure they'll be able to compete with some of the teams you listed but that doesn't mean they'll win all those games. that defense is still far too bad.
being close in the game, doesn't equate to winning the game. ask viking fans about last year.
and my point, the one you're not seeing, is that it's borderline ridiculous to think that this team with the amount of overhaul and unproven talent they have will compete to win the division.
why is it ridiculous to think that? because the texans have far fewer question marks, and came off a season ranked top 5 in rushing offense (missing arian foster for 3 games) and total defense (without demeco ryans and mario williams who were supposed to be our better players last year)

far fewer question marks? Schaub isn't out of the woods yet, none of you are fully appreciating the gravity of a Lis Franc injury.


Andre Johnson is already missing practices for groin-strains, health is a huge question mark for the Texans.


The best run-game in the NFL (and a top-5 defense) isn't going to carry you to the promised land (playoffs) twice in a row if you guys can't remain healthy at other positions. If Schaub goes down again wow will that AFC South landscape change fast.

 

[HEATHEN]

Luck is better than Hasselbeck right now?

Yes. How is he not? Hasselbeck has a wet noodle for an arm. Has cement bricks for feet.

 

[buc em]

The best players on your team are still Reggie Wayne, Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis, who all happened to play last year for the Colts in one of the worst seasons in NFL history. The Colts have added a few rookies and lost Pierre Garcon, Jeff Saturday and Dallas Clark, who were their next 3 best players. Now please tell me how in the hell you figure that the Colts are going to be anywhere near a 6-8 win team this year. Andrew Luck would have to have the best season ever for a rookie QB, Coby Fleener would have to be Gronkowski 2.0 and T.Y. Hilton would have to be the next DeSean Jackson. Am I right?

 

[651akathepaul]

The more I think about it, the Jaguars are pretty damn solid. It's just that their glaring weakness is Gabbert and he really kills that team. Henne comes in before week 5 and makes that team markedly tougher.

 

[HEATHEN]

The best players on your team are still Reggie Wayne, Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis, who all happened to play last year for the Colts in one of the worst seasons in NFL history. The Colts have added a few rookies and lost Pierre Garcon, Jeff Saturday and Dallas Clark, who were their next 3 best players. Now please tell me how in the hell you figure that the Colts are going to be anywhere near a 6-8 win team this year. Andrew Luck would have to have the best season ever for a rookie QB, Coby Fleener would have to be Gronkowski 2.0 and T.Y. Hilton would have to be the next DeSean Jackson. Am I right?

done with you, not going to even bother if you honestly think I'm a colts fan.

you can't even add, 6-8? 16 games in a season....


I've addressed everything you're talking about, read or don't even bother. Save your energy because you're obviously not even interested in gathering my point of view before offering yours.

Get a blog and don't read the comments if you don't want other's opinions, not going to go in circles repeating myself because you can't take the time to read through the thread. Have a good evening.

 

[do work son]

far fewer question marks? Schaub isn't out of the woods yet, none of you are fully appreciating the gravity of a Lis Franc injury.
Andre Johnson is already missing practices for groin-strains, health is a huge question mark for the Texans.
The best run-game in the NFL (and a top-5 defense) isn't going to carry you to the promised land (playoffs) twice in a row if you guys can't remain healthy at other positions. If Schaub goes down again wow will that AFC South landscape change fast.

after how much you just went on about how bad the afc south is, you say the best run game in the ENTIRE NFL, and a top 5 defense in the ENTIRE NFL isnt going to win the lowly AFC SOUTH?????

 

[HEATHEN]

The more I think about it, the Jaguars are pretty damn solid. It's just that there glaring weakness is Gabbert and he really kills that team. Henne comes in before week 5 and makes that team markedly tougher.

Good point, if they see the light Henne might actually make that passing-attack serviceable.

Marcedes Lewis was even supposed to be a solid TE until Gabbert showed up, dude is a deer in headlights.


Robinson and Blackmon deserve better, I feel for MJD, I really do. Dude is a consummate professional (granted he has a lot of mileage at only 26), but he's the heart of that offense.


But man Gabbert just kills the whole wave, just when you think they got something going BAM you realize that Gabbert is their starter (for now).

 

[kc246888]

Reminds me of a conversation I was having in ESPN comments about the Chiefs.  Like man y'all would have much more potential but you are stuck with Cassel.  I think they should've paid Bowe because now they can flush that Cassel investment down the toilet for real.  In fairness to sneaker you guys are going hard enough to say he said they would win he did not.  If I had to support his argument I would echo him saying that if the Texans fall apart the division would be there for the Colts taking possibly because of all the other teams inconsistencies relative to other division's second or third best teams.  However the Texans excelled without two good defensive players, and their QB, RB, And WR were all injured at times.  They ooze consistency so it is a huge stretch to rely on them falling apart.  Nevermind that the Colts will be relying on coin flip odds to win many games and that if either the Titans or Jags get it together there is a new competitor.  The Texans have plenty of pass rushers and adequately prepared for the loss of Mario.  They got good leadership so I wouldn't bet against them.  If the Colts are expected at 5.5 win could they get 7 or 8 it is possible.  But not only is it improbable but you are seriously discounting how improbable it is for the Texans to have less than 9 wins in a division where you throw Jags and Titans under the bus.  This is my biggest issue with your argument. Either they (JAX,TEN) are going to be good enough to beat the Colts or if they lose to the Colts they get beat by Texans too.  I feel anything outside that scenario is just blind luck but hey the Colts are +1500 to win the division, not like most people think they have anywhere close to a 1/15 chance.  However calling it a two horse race was just not proper.  Can we stop this now because both sides have fair points? Let's bring this passion to a new discussion!

 

[theone2401]

Henne is about - much better than Gabbert. Jaguars are doomed and MJD knows it the couldnt pay me enough money to take that pounding..



I agree though the Colts are being slept on. They mailed it in last year without Peyton but I dont think they make any noise this year. I am really anxious to see how Luck plays. If he does not try to do to much I could see the Colts getting 6 or 7 wins.

 

[rosegoldsluggs]

far fewer question marks? Schaub isn't out of the woods yet, none of you are fully appreciating the gravity of a Lis Franc injury.
Andre Johnson is already missing practices for groin-strains, health is a huge question mark for the Texans.
The best run-game in the NFL (and a top-5 defense) isn't going to carry you to the promised land (playoffs) twice in a row if you guys can't remain healthy at other positions. If Schaub goes down again wow will that AFC South landscape change fast.

Schaubs Lis Franc injury is not going to be a problem at all, He is strictly a pocket passer and hes not gonna be running around and trying to scramble out of the pocket. All they ask is that he drop back and pass the ball, and thats all he will ever do. Lis Franc injuries are career threatning for RBs because thats what they have to do is run. They have to be able to change speeds and make cuts, thats why alot of RBs dont come back the same after an injury like this. But as far as Schaub goes Ive been to a few TC practices and he looked good and comfortable in the pocket. That is his bread and butter and im sure he knows to not try and be a hero and scramble for a few extra yards and risk another injury.

 

[HEATHEN]

Reminds me of a conversation I was having in ESPN comments about the Chiefs.  Like man y'all would have much more potential but you are stuck with Cassel.  I think they should've paid Bowe because now they can flush that Cassel investment down the toilet for real.  

In fairness to sneaker you guys are going hard enough to say he said they would win he did not.  If I had to support his argument I would echo him saying that if the Texans fall apart the division would be there for the Colts taking possibly because of all the other teams inconsistencies relative to other division's second or third best teams.  However the Texans excelled without two good defensive players, and their QB, RB, And WR were all injured at times.  They ooze consistency so it is a huge stretch to rely on them falling apart.  Nevermind that the Colts will be relying on coin flip odds to win many games and that if either the Titans or Jags get it together there is a new competitor.  The Texans have plenty of pass rushers and adequately prepared for the loss of Mario.  They got good leadership so I wouldn't bet against them.  If the Colts are expected at 5.5 win could they get 7 or 8 it is possible.  But not only is it improbable but you are seriously discounting how improbable it is for the Texans to have less than 9 wins in a division where you throw Jags and Titans under the bus.

 This is my biggest issue with your argument. Either they (JAX,TEN) are going to be good enough to beat the Colts or if they lose to the Colts they get beat by Texans too.  I feel anything outside that scenario is just blind luck but hey the Colts are +1500 to win the division, not like most people think they have anywhere close to a 1/15 chance.  However calling it a two horse race was just not proper.  Can we stop this now because both sides have fair points? Let's bring this passion to a new discussion!

Good post, and welcome to Niketalk. You make some excellent points. I am perhaps writing off the Titans and Jaguars off a bit prematurely upon reconsideration. While I have my doubts that they'll be able to repeat the same success they enjoyed last season if either Schaub or Johnson goes down, it is their division to lose.

Repped.

 

[HEATHEN]

Schaubs Lis Franc injury is not going to be a problem at all, He is strictly a pocket passer and hes not gonna be running around and trying to scramble out of the pocket. All they ask is that he drop back and pass the ball, and thats all he will ever do. Lis Franc injuries are career threatning for RBs because thats what they have to do is run. They have to be able to change speeds and make cuts, thats why alot of RBs dont come back the same after an injury like this. But as far as Schaub goes Ive been to a few TC practices and he looked good and comfortable in the pocket. That is his bread and butter and im sure he knows to not try and be a hero and scramble for a few extra yards and risk another injury.

My primary concern with Schaub and his Lis Franc is not his mobility but his ability to throw off his right foot (his plant foot). If that injury does start flaring up in the near-future he's going to have issues generating velocity on his throws. I don't think it'll stop him from remaining on the field, I just have my doubts about his effectiveness.

He's never had any real issues throwing the deep ball, or stringing passes through tight spots, but I feel like as the wear and tear of the season takes its toll, it's going to be debilitating.

 

[theone2401]

Schaubs Lis Franc injury is not going to be a problem at all, He is strictly a pocket passer and hes not gonna be running around and trying to scramble out of the pocket. All they ask is that he drop back and pass the ball, and thats all he will ever do. Lis Franc injuries are career threatning for RBs because thats what they have to do is run. They have to be able to change speeds and make cuts, thats why alot of RBs dont come back the same after an injury like this. But as far as Schaub goes Ive been to a few TC practices and he looked good and comfortable in the pocket. That is his bread and butter and im sure he knows to not try and be a hero and scramble for a few extra yards and risk another injury.

This is some wishful thinking bro.

If his Lis Franc flares up significantly he will not really be able to plant his foot and throw like he wants to.

I think he will be fine but its very possible he has future complications and they will affect him whether he runs or not.

 

[mmg]

It's obvious that dude is trollin idk why your entertaining him at all. He sits there and says he's not listen to us because our rebuttals don't make sense to him but his whole logic is flawed. He expects rookies to push the worst team in NFL from a talent / skill point to possibly winning the division with a super bowl contender in that same division. Yea ok

 

[buc em]

done with you, not going to even bother if you honestly think I'm a colts fan.
you can't even add, 6-8? 16 games in a season....
I've addressed everything you're talking about, read or don't even bother. Save your energy because you're obviously not even interested in gathering my point of view before offering yours.
Get a blog and don't read the comments if you don't want other's opinions, not going to go in circles repeating myself because you can't take the time to read through the thread. Have a good evening.

A 6-8 win team.....meaning they're going to win anywhere from 6 to 8 games. If you aren't a Colts fan than who are you a fan of? Because you're wasting more time and energy on a team that you're not a fan of than I ever would.

 

[651akathepaul]

Something I'll add is that nothing in the NFL has ever been given to a team. It's so hard to repeat just as division winners let alone returning to a Super Bowl or Conference Championship. Having said that...The argue for parity in the AFC South plays more of a role against the Texans than it does for the Colts.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Colts go on a mini streak, but nothing of real impact on the standings. I think the Texans have a huge ? next to their name and are a few probable injuries away from losing out on that division to Tennessee. Things have to happen, but it can. And like I stated a few posts back...The Jaguars are a real solid team minus Gabbert. Even Henne is leaps above Gabbert as a QB. Remember, he started off fairly well last year before he got hurt. Jaguars could surprise if they don't hold on to Gabbert too long and MJD's holdout doesn't hurt too much.


Comparatively, that division isn't very exciting though.

 

[gunna get it]

Berry lines up on island against All-Pro receiver

St. Joseph, Mo. – Eric Berry wanted to get the most from Tuesday’s joint practice with the Cardinals, so he sought out Arizona’s best player.

It didn’t matter if Berry had to line up as an outside defender and play like a cornerback. He couldn’t pass on the challenge of manning up against Larry Fitzgerald during one-on-one drills with Cardinals wide receivers.

“I just went out there and I figured I’d get a taste,” said Berry. “He’s one of the best at what he does. Me, I thrive off competition and love a challenge. Shoot, why not go out there? He’s one of the best players in the league.”

A sore foot kept Brandon Flowers out of practice anyway, so it wasn’t as if Berry had to fend off a number one corner looking for a matchup against a number one receiver. The one-on-one battles were Berry’s for the taking and the third-year safety lined up across from Fitzgerald during each rotation of the 10-minute matchup period.

“Some of our guys wanted to get out there, but I was just like ‘I’ve got to go do it.’ I just had to get out there and matchup with him just to see,” Berry said cracking a smile.

Berry and Fitzgerald competed three times during the one-on-one period.

It was just the two of them on an island. One spotlight. One quarterback. One football. No help.

“I felt like I did good,” Berry said afterward. “I felt like I was playing ball out there.”

Fitzgerald ultimately won two of the three meetings, but each snap was competitive. Berry’s victory came when he stalemated Fitzgerald’s attempt to cross inside on a slant.

Overall, Fitzgerald walked away impressed with the Chiefs young safety. It was the first time the six-time Pro Bowler had squared off against Berry in a competitive environment. Their only other meeting came in the 2011 Pro Bowl.

“I didn’t know he was that athletic,” Fitzgerald said. “It was the first time I’ve gotten to play against him and he’s an impressive specimen. You’ve got a free safety, strong safety, wide receiver, linebacker, cornerback – he can play any position he wants to with that athleticism.

“More so, I’m excited to see that he’s fully recovered from his injury. He’s bounced back and regained his form.”

Berry’s athleticism is what stood out to Fitzgerald and it’s what captured the attention of most fans watching Berry play man-to-man on an island.

There was Berry, lined up out of his element as a cornerback, putting up three solid battles with one of the best receivers in professional football.

“It just depends on what you define as being out of my element,” Berry said. “Anything that you’re asked to do on the football field, you have to be prepared for.

“Nobody is going to say it’s out of my element if it happens on a Sunday and I’m lined up outside in a cornerback position and they bomb a touchdown. They’ll just say that I got bombed for a touchdown, so I’ve got to be prepared for any possibility out there.”

That’s the attitude that makes Berry so valuable to the Chiefs.

And the interceptions.

And the tackles.

And the leadership.

And the athleticism.