NFL Discussion Thread - Hall of Fame Game: August 3rd

[jjs07]

Shanahan's MO has always been play action. What they're doing now is a traditional Shanahan offense but w/ a few wrinkles added each week. The amazing part of the offense is RGIII's skill-set. What he can do athletically keeps GREAT defensive fronts on their toes. JPP/Osi looked really uncomfortable because of the hesitation they show when the ball is snapped. This is the beauty of the zone read and why it makes the skins play action so damn dynamic. Even w/o the play action, RGIII has a completion % of 65 with 8 TDs.

I honestly can't believe some of you all are really sitting there and trying to compare what's going on here w/ the wildcat formation C'mon now.

 

[va757va]

Hasselbeck is banking on the NFL being bigger than the man (RGIII) and going off past instances were a player like RGIII would regress in year 2. It won't happen to a big extent with RGIII. He's got what it takes to beat NFL defenses regardless.

I honestly can't believe some of you all are really sitting there and trying to compare what's going on here w/ the wildcat formation

C'mon now.

my thing is, the NFL has proven that these type of things usually get figured out and shut down..  so i say its like the wildcard in that sense.

dont see the skins running this offense 3 years down the road..the league always win..

 

[CP1708]

The Wildcat was run only, you could put 11 in the box and we couldn't do ****

The only pass options we had were a reverse toss back to Penny, or a RB throwing the ball wobbly 15 yards. After each of those plays were ran one time, and on tape from then on, they were never going to work again and it became clear as day, drop both safeties down, not enough blockers, no more running room, bye bye Wildcat.

RGIII, can, and will throw, and will get better and better at it. Not saying he should be in the pistol long term, but for now, while he is still learning the game, learning defenses, protections, reads, etc, it's useful to keep DLines off him. Eventually I think he will adjust and start to run a more normal offense as they try to protect him from taking any hits running the ball.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Dude's act like throwing these young QB's into the fire and making them throw 35 times a game straight out of college has always worked in the past...

Look at all the top drafted busts at QB's that were asked to do wayyyy too much coming out of school.  They flop and lose any confidence they had.

 

[jjs07]

As CP pointed out, the Wildcat is run only. I'll say it again. Skins are running their same base package but just out of the Pistol. You're seeing the 70% play action that Shanahan runs (Rex/Beck did the same thing) but with more success due to the wrinkles added b/c of RGIII's ridiculous skill set. It's not going to be the same every week or every year. You don't think that the Shanhan's will adjust as time goes by?

 

[cash money 1999]

if geno smith sits a year and gets the right coach to instill proper film room discipline he can be as good as robert griffin III

would love for philly to keep reid and have geno sit a year and get groomed by reid

 

[deuce king]

I don't think folks are saying that this "pistol pete" style offense is just like or exactly like the wildcat offense.  Folks are saying that the wildcat offense was a gimmick and that this "pistol pete" style offense is a gimmick as well.  A gimmick is a gimmick, no matter what year we are referencing. 

 

[va757va]

ok..so everyone answer this for me.

do you see the skins running this same offense 3+ years from now?

i dont.i think itll be more 'prototypical'.

 

[mmg]

I don't think folks are saying that this "pistol pete" style offense is just like or exactly like the wildcat offense.  Folks are saying that the wildcat offense was a gimmick and that this "pistol pete" style offense is a gimmick as well.  A gimmick is a gimmick, no matter what year we are referencing. 

This.

We know what the wildcat was.

We know this isn't strictly run.

But as said, this is a gimmick, this is a college based offense.

Once NFL teams figure out the packages and teach their defenses to read and stay at home. It's going to be phased out.

And I think strong 3-4 defenses can stop this pistol.

DE/DT/NT that can control the gaps instead of pass rushing outside DEs that have to make the choice.

2 ILB that can read the play and OLB to contain.

 

[651akathepaul]

The pistol is still a relatively new concept that first got its start in college and is only now finding its way to the NFL. I wouldn't say that it can only work in college on a consistent basis because The ******** are one of the very first to try such a thing.

Theoretically, it can work in the NFL. It is not a gimmick because it doesn't rely on fooling an opponent to be successful. It's simply a quicker and possibly more effective way of quickening the process of running a play, making it even harder for the defense to diagnose what they're seeing. It's the shotgun, but the QB is lined up a few yards shorter allowing to get into the play quicker. There's added deception, but its premise doesn't neccessarily focus on deception.

 

[gmsboy1]

I don't think folks are saying that this "pistol pete" style offense is just like or exactly like the wildcat offense.  Folks are saying that the wildcat offense was a gimmick and that this "pistol pete" style offense is a gimmick as well.  A gimmick is a gimmick, no matter what year we are referencing. 

This.

We know what the wildcat was.

We know this isn't strictly run.

But as said, this is a gimmick, this is a college based offense.

Once NFL teams figure out the packages and teach their defenses to read and stay at home. It's going to be phased out.

And I think strong 3-4 defenses can stop this pistol.

DE/DT/NT that can control the gaps instead of pass rushing outside DEs that have to make the choice.

2 ILB that can read the play and OLB to contain.

This guy has all the answers here. Why aren't you a wunderkind defensive coordinator then? You got it all figured out.

What is truly gimmicky about their offense? Wr screens? Playaction? The craziest they get is the qb option which other teams are doing to.
And considering they had a handicapped offseason what makes you all think they won't get better as they get their players?

And besides all that why is it a knock to have a "college style offense"? Look at all these pro style offenses not doing @#$%.

 

[elpablo21]

Cant believe Sanchez got his job back

 

[Maximus Meridius]

^ Im saying, what more do they need to see from this dude. Rex is determined to go down with the ship.

 

[bigmike23]

both the wildcat and pistol are formations not a offense

 

[memo]

and it's a home game for the Jets too. I can't wait to see how the fans react.

 

[shatterkneesinc]

i supported rex but i think he is done

 

[jjs07]

This guy has all the answers here. Why aren't you a wunderkind defensive coordinator then? You got it all figured out.
What is truly gimmicky about their offense? Wr screens? Playaction? The craziest they get is the qb option which other teams are doing to.
And considering they had a handicapped offseason what makes you all think they won't get better as they get their players?
And besides all that why is it a knock to have a "college style offense"? Look at all these pro style offenses not doing @#$%.

THANK YOU.

both the wildcat and pistol are formations not a offense

This too.

People straight up ignoring the fact that it's Mike Shanahan's base offensive system being run out of the pistol. They are running a few plays of zone read and a lot of play action. Outside of the zone read, it's the same **** he was doing with both Rex/Beck last year. It's an offense built around the strengths of RGIII. As mike pointed out, the Pistol is a FORMATION, not an offense.

Dudes were knocking the Shanahan's this offseason b/c they thought he wouldn't fit HIS scheme around RGIII's strengths. We'll he did. And now that he's doing it, folks are quick to call it a gimmick/college offense and other nonsense because it's doing well.

Teams going to adjust? Well, so will the ********. There is a lot of tape on the Skins as it is, and RGIII has had one of the greatest (approaching THE greatest) Rookie seasons from a QB to date. Dudes are just waiting for this team to struggle like it did vs. Pittsburgh and Carolina so they can puff their chests out saying that they knew it was only a matter of time before the NFL caught up...however, they stay as quiet as a mouse when the team wins and generally does well.

*edit*

He's also making plays while taking snaps from under center as well...the pistol is another wrinkle of the base shanahan offensive system.

 

[nooera]

From the handful of times ive seen RG3 play i think its pretty evident this dude can do anything an OC could ever ask of him and much more.

He will be a problem for years to come.

 

[mmg]

I guess we cant all be enamored with this wrinkle of an offense, sorry


if hes still running this 2-3 years down the line from now, ill be impressed and take back my words about this gimmick offense as i like to call it.


And you gotta give it to Rex, sticking with his man.

 

[jjs07]

I guess we cant all be enamored with this wrinkle of an offense, sorry
if hes still running this 2-3 years down the line from now, ill be impressed and take back my words about this gimmick offense as i like to call it.
And you gotta give it to Rex, sticking with his man.

let me ask you...is it gimmicky for the Pats to utilize two TEs in the manner that they do? Is the Tampa 2 gimmicky as well?

 

[mmg]

let me ask you...is it gimmicky for the Pats to utilize two TEs in the manner that they do? Is the Tampa 2 gimmicky as well?

Pats with the 2 TE sets play the mismatch game.


TEs that are too big for CBs but too Fast for most LBs.


So they exploit that,


That Pistol formation which majority of the offense is ran thru relies on PA and options, that isnt a gimmick?


Its working, i understand that, but what happens when he plays a top tier defense, because im sorry, he hasnt yet.

 

[checks grossman]

The Jets don't have any better options, youn can't act surprised he's sticking w/ Sanchez. If we're talking about the both of them in NY by next September then it becomes an issue.

 

[mmg]

The Jets don't have any better options, youn can't act surprised he's sticking w/ Sanchez. If we're talking about the both of them in NY by next September then it becomes an issue.

still dont understand that extension


i honestly think theyll both be there.


Also Percy Harvin placed in IR cause of that Ankle.


everybody in the box

 

[651akathepaul]

Also Percy Harvin placed in IR cause of that Ankle.
everybody in the box

So more of the same...Peterson been gashing against 8 in the box all season and his whole career.

 

[jjs07]

Pats with the 2 TE sets play the mismatch game.
TEs that are too big for CBs but too Fast for most LBs.
So they exploit that,
That Pistol formation which majority of the offense is ran thru relies on PA and options, that isnt a gimmick?
Its working, i understand that, but what happens when he plays a top tier defense, because im sorry, he hasnt yet.

Tell me why the play action works, MMG? Due to a STOUT run game. Shanahan's passing attack is predicated off of the run game doing well. Even going back to his Denver days, Shanahan's M.O. has been the play action pass. But, I guess that's a gimmick.

Here we go again...first it's "wait until the NFL adjusts to the offense." Now, it's "what happens when he plays a top-tier defense?" What happens when a lot of teams play a top-tier defense, MMG? C'mon man. We're going into week 13 of the NFL season and teams have PLENTY of film on the ******** and RGIII. What makes the base out of the pistol so dynamic (when the run game is going) is that there are so many options out of that formation.

I'd almost guarantee that other teams around the league will be looking to implement pistol formations from their offenses in the upcoming seasons (assuming they get the proper personnel to run it). ****, we saw Colin Kaepernick fail at this last week vs. the Rams