Official 2016-2017 NBA Season Thread - NBA rules Chris Bosh has a career ending injury

[100027]

Nash went from averaging 7.2 assists a game (in 7 seasons) in Dallas to 11.1 in PHX (4 seasons) under MDA. He went from 8.8 his last year in Dallas to 11.5 His first year in Phoenix. Sound familiar? It's irrefutable to say the system doesn't inflate assist numbers. Even Jeremy Lin got a boost of 2 assists a game.

So the system inflates assist numbers by having the team be better offensively and score more points?  Got it.

I suppose assists only count if you are an inefficient player on a mediocre offense like Westbrook in OKC, because then it's struggle time and nothing is inflated.

 

[MVP]

So the system inflates assist numbers by having the team be better offensively and score more points?  Got it.

I suppose assists only count if you are an inefficient player on a mediocre offense like Westbrook in OKC, because then it's struggle time and nothing is inflated.

How did you get that from what I said?

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Nash went from averaging 7.2 assists a game (in 7 seasons) in Dallas to 11.1 in PHX (4 seasons) under MDA. He went from 8.8 his last year in Dallas to 11.5 His first year in Phoenix. Sound familiar? It's irrefutable to say the system doesn't inflate assist numbers. Even Jeremy Lin got a boost of 2 assists a game.

He flat out passing the ball more, nothing more nothing less. He's been a great passer since high school.

He's a great passer and MDA system does inflate stats. 2 things can be right. Nothing wrong with having the perfect coach.

 

[hardens beard]

This is the most important part, the team is shifting their focus to put him in the best position to do what he does best, which in turn allows the team to do better. so no he isn't skying over 7 footers for every bound but how can we knock him for his stats being boosted because the system promotes him doing it.

It's like us penalizing Harden assist because Dantoni runs a fast pace offense, or penalizing Lebrons assist because the system he's in encourages pushing the rock and taking a lot of threes. The systems help with the stats a bit but that system is only in place because the players have exceptional skills to complete it.

The difference is there's no noticeable value in letting him grab uncontested rebounds.

With the other two your looking at historic offenses when they do what you said

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

This is the most important part, the team is shifting their focus to put him in the best position to do what he does best, which in turn allows the team to do better. so no he isn't skying over 7 footers for every bound but how can we knock him for his stats being boosted because the system promotes him doing it.

It's like us penalizing Harden assist because Dantoni runs a fast pace offense, or penalizing Lebrons assist because the system he's in encourages pushing the rock and taking a lot of threes. The systems help with the stats a bit but that system is only in place because the players have exceptional skills to complete it.

Bro you missed the part where it doesn't make a difference who grabs those boards for okc. All it really does is allow Russ to average double digit boards

 

[trynafeelmink]

Jumping on a already great team?

and becoming the Best player on that great team, and EVERY MVP has been on a great team. As much as people like to act like Kawhi is pulling the 06 Lakers to this record, he's still on the third best roster in the L. Now i personally think Westbrook/Harden SHOULD receive it, but if KD doesn't get hurt idk how he doesn't have as strong of a case as anyone to win the MVP.

 

[MVP]

He's a great passer and MDA system does inflate stats. 2 things can be right. Nothing wrong with having the perfect coach.

They act like it's mutually exclusive. Nash was a great passer before MDA as well. MDA's system put him in a position to get the glow...word to Bruce Leroy.

 

[the collector]

The difference is there's no noticeable value in letting him grab uncontested rebounds.

THIS

If a big grabs a rebound and gives it to Russ it makes no difference. The Thunder players are gifting Russ rebounds so he can get triple doubles. It's a team effort.

 

[hardens beard]

He's a great passer and MDA system does inflate stats. 2 things can be right. Nothing wrong with having the perfect coach.

If you told me it's was the personnel than I would say ok. But I firmly believe he would be putting up the same numbers without pringles. FYI, the last 40 games of last season he averaged 30 and 10. That was with Bickerstaff being the coach

 

[100027]

How did you get that from what I said?

My point is that "inflation" usually refers to something artificial (i.e. stats that go up without having a substantive impact on the game results).  In this case, Harden's stats are up as a direct function of the offense being incredibly efficient + high-scoring this year.

And that's been a trend for D'antoni's offenses in general, yes.  

When you say "inflation", I think it's more appropriate for something like "Kevin Love's rebounding stats are inflated because he moves to box out rather than protecting the rim", for example.

 

[trynafeelmink]

The difference is there's no noticeable value in letting him grab uncontested rebounds.

With the other two your looking at historic offenses when they do what you said

the noticeable value is him getting that rebound and forcing the defense to collapse is one of OKC's few offensive strengths, if they don't do that their offense is hurt because outside of Oladipo nobody else on that team can create their own shot or create for others. Donovan didn't employ this because he wants Russ to average a trip dub, he implemented it because it helps the offense tremendously.

 

[MVP]

My point is that "inflation" usually refers to something artificial (i.e. stats that go up without having a substantive impact on the game results).  In this case, Harden's stats are up as a direct function of the offense being incredibly efficient + high-scoring this year.

And that's been a trend for D'antoni's offenses in general, yes.  

When you say "inflation", I think it's more appropriate for something like "Kevin Love's rebounding stats are inflated because he moves to box out rather than protecting the rim", for example.

I was using inflation in its traditional definition meaning to go up and expand. I said nothing related to the impact on the game. Quite a leap on your part.

Harden's assist numbers pre MDA in Houston:

5.8, 6.1, 7.0, 7.5.

With MDA: 11.2

 

[noblekane]

My Lakers, My Warriors.

hey its better than my lakers my grizzlies

 

[dipsetgeneral]

Had no internet ot TV from 11:20 A.M. Tuesday morning until 3 A.M. this morning. Missed all the good games. Kinda' disappointed.

 

[the collector]

the noticeable value is him getting that rebound and forcing the defense to collapse is one of OKC's few offensive strengths, if they don't do that their offense is hurt because outside of Oladipo nobody else on that team can create their own shot or create for others. Donovan didn't employ this because he wants Russ to average a trip dub, he implemented it because it helps the offense tremendously.

I don't understand how him getting rebound forces the defense to collapse. He has to bring the ball up the court first. Why can't a big get the rebound and pass it to him? The defense doesn't collapse once he grabs the rebound. He has to bring it past half court first.

 

[100027]

I was using inflation in its traditional definition meaning to go up and expand. I said nothing related to the impact on the game. Quite a leap on your part.

I don't think it's a leap.  "Inflation" is commonly used to indicate a bubble that's about to burst.  It often has a negative connotation.

I understand now that's not what you meant.  Either way, I don't believe that D'Antoni's system should reflect negatively on Harden's MVP candidacy.

 

[trynafeelmink]

I don't understand how him getting rebound forces the defense to collapse. He has to bring the ball up the court first. Why can't a big get the rebound and pass it to him? The defense doesn't collapse once he grabs the rebound. He has to bring it past half court first.

him getting the Ball and going full speed from the second he touches it puts more pressure on the defense than Enes/Adams/Taj rebounding the ball and then kicking it to him. those 2-3 seconds will make a huge difference when your talking someone with the speed of Westbrook.

 

[noblekane]

Kobe was robbed in 06, not 07 though. Also a big reason why Nash won was the MVP in 06 was him losing a huge star in Amare and still winning 54 games only 7 less than the previous season. Funny Russ is probably going to do the same thing with OKC finishing at 48 wins after losing KD (they won 55 last year) who's a bigger superstar than Amare ever thought about being.

And Russ' season is astronomically better than what Nash did that year statistically.

kobe lost shaq tho

and the reason nash won was cuz the league wanted to clear their image and give it to a guy who demonstrated the fundamentals of the game

 

[tyevvyotcu]

so if you say harden's assists are inflated then so would russ's rebounds...
correct?

 

[addict4sneakers]

I don't understand how him getting rebound forces the defense to collapse. He has to bring the ball up the court first. Why can't a big get the rebound and pass it to him? The defense doesn't collapse once he grabs the rebound. He has to bring it past half court first.

him getting the Ball and going full speed from the second he touches it puts more pressure on the defense than Enes/Adams/Taj rebounding the ball and then kicking it to him. those 2-3 seconds will make a huge difference when your talking someone with the speed of Westbrook.

What if he caught the ball at the coaches hash off an controlled rebound from a big than catching the rebound in the paint?

Theoretically, wouldn't he put more pressure on the defense with a running start 15 feet closer to the basket?

 

[Hank Scorpio]

16 curry
13 bron
14 kd
09 wade
06 kobe

all better than russ's season this year

One of the few times I've ever agreed with you on something. The cows may have come home.

View media item 2368601
Defensive numbers for the 4 candidates

My that chart speaks volumes. This dude Kawhi is unreal :x

It's reasonable to assume that if Russ played at least some defense he wouldn't need to do so much on offense

Very true

they aren't empty rebounds but they definitely are inflated
same way mamba says hardens assists are inflated

Harden's assists are def not inflated, but you can make a case why Russells rebounds are "empty". I think ESPN or TNT made a segment on that exact topic a few weeks ago. You see Russell purposely line up in the paint during free throws (usually guards are behind the arc), and you see the two bigs clearing out for Russell to get the board. Hell, even for defensive boards you see them clear out for him.

Kyrie is great at being a #2 option

Don't take for granted how talented of a scorer he is.

But he's God awful when he's the 1st option.

and becoming the Best player on that great team, and EVERY MVP has been on a great team. As much as people like to act like Kawhi is pulling the 06 Lakers to this record, he's still on the third best roster in the L. Now i personally think Westbrook/Harden SHOULD receive it, but if KD doesn't get hurt idk how he doesn't have as strong of a case as anyone to win the MVP.

KD would be having one HELL of a campaign for MVP if he never got hurt. Some would argue it's the sole reason why Kawhi is seeing a campaign now.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

so if you say harden's assists are inflated then so would russ's rebounds...
correct?

Yes, absolutely.

Ah, another one.

 

[the collector]

him getting the Ball and going full speed from the second he touches it puts more pressure on the defense than Enes/Adams/Taj rebounding the ball and then kicking it to him. those 2-3 seconds will make a huge difference when your talking someone with the speed of Westbrook.

If it makes that much of a difference then Washington should implement it too. Wall to average a triple double next season?

 

[100027]

kobe lost shaq tho

and the reason nash won was cuz the league wanted to clear their image and give it to a guy who demonstrated the fundamentals of the game

Kobe wasn't robbed.  The whole narrative where Nash didn't deserve his MVPs is ridiculous and being seen through 2017 glasses.

1.  Kobe didn't get it because his team was bad.  End of story.  You can quibble with it but the journalists just don't give MVPs to bad teams.

2.  Nash's Suns were blowing the doors off the league after an era of weak iso-heavy offenses.  His stats were excellent and their stats were phenomenal for the time.  The team literally revolutionized offense in the NBA.  That system is still the basis of modern NBA offense (including the Spurs).  You can't compare those stats to now.

3.  Anyone who says Shaq deserved the MVP that year on Miami is insane.

 

[MVP]

I don't think it's a leap.  "Inflation" is commonly used to indicate a bubble that's about to burst.  It often has a negative connotation.

I understand now that's not what you meant.  Either way, I don't believe that D'Antoni's system should reflect negatively on Harden's MVP candidacy.

Who said it negatively affects his candidacy? It's obviously helped just as it did Nash. It's made the offense better which has translated to better team success. I mean Beard put up monster stats last year yet didn't even make an All-NBA team. Harden is the perfect player to run his system even more so than Nash cause of his threat as a scorer that Nash never could dream of reaching.