***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[dacomeup]

this i definitely don't agree. joe biden flipped a bunch of white people.

obama won the votes of tons of people with a lot of racial resentment.



this idea that the way you do politics won't impact who you can bring into your coalition doesn't make sense to me.

You’re arguing something completely different than I’m actually saying. The Black vote is extremely important to the Democratic base. How can you talk about environmental issues, jobs, student loan debt, mass incarceration etc without acknowledging to that base how you know these issues are directly impacting them? Trump pushed jobs and mass incarceration once he was in office as big talking points. His base didn’t start doing crazy things as a result. They pointed to how good he was to Black people! It’s not a game that Democrats can afford to play, to turn off the Black voters that are critical to them winning these elections.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

If he wants a 60 billion dollar a year program that could be funded by a simple tax increase, that could probably be done through budget reconciliation, while the Dems have a trifecta,;he should stop mentioning it would help some of the Dems most loyal voters.

The votes are there to pass the policy. He needs to get other Dems in Congress on board, not white voters.

You don't see how that sounds ****ing ridiculous on some level?

Joe.manchin is accountable to white voters so seems pretty important that they radicalozed against your plan.

Imo I think white people perceiving it as a wealth transfer from white people to black people decreases the chances Joe Manchin or Jon tester votes for it.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

You’re arguing something completely different than I’m actually saying. The Black vote is extremely important to the Democratic base. How can you talk about environmental issues, jobs, student loan debt, mass incarceration etc without acknowledging to that base how you know these issues are directly impacting them? Trump pushed jobs and mass incarceration once he was in office as big talking points. His base didn’t start doing crazy things as a result. They pointed to how good he was to Black people! It’s not a game that Democrats can afford to play, to turn off the Black voters that are critical to them winning these elections.

It's a fine distinction but important.

Acknowledging that it helps black people and saying that It's going to fix the racial wealth gap for example are two different things imo.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Joe.manchin is accountable to white voters so seems pretty important that they radicalozed against your plan.

Imo I think white people perceiving it as a wealth transfer from white people to black people decreases the chances Joe Manchin or Jon tester votes for it.

So if Joe Manchin and John Tester screw over their constituents by denying them a massive economic windfall...

We blame Cory Booker for telling the truth about one point of his proposal. Even though he also routinely mentions how much it will help people of all backgrounds

Like I said, your argument is starting to sound a bit ridiculous

 

[Based Jesus]

Osh on a meaningless pre-game ritual "You can't stop! Don't let white people win! Reclaim your country!"

Osh on meaningful political rhetoric "I just think we need to care more about what white people want to hear"

 

[osh kosh bosh]

So if Joe Manchin and John Tester screw over their constituents by denying them a massive economic windfall,

Blame Cory Booker for telling the truth. Even though he also routinely mentions how much it will help people of all backgrounds

Like I said, your argument is starting to sound a bit ridiculous

I mean Democrats are in a ridiculous situation.

As long as Joe Manchin types are the swing vote in the Senate you gotta hide the medicine in the iice cream.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Osh on a meaningless pre-game ritual "You can't stop! Don't let white people win! Reclaim your country!"

Osh on meaningful political rhetoric "I just think we need to care more about what white people want to hear"

This is strange to me.

If you understand how powerful white supremacy is.
The problem of gerrymandering.
The geography of the seante.

It seems to me the inescapable conclusion is we have to find a way to sneak this **** past white people.

Unfortunately their votes literally count for more. And untill that changes you find a way to make progress without them noticing.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I mean Democrats are in a ridiculous situation.

Asking as Joe Manchin types are the swing vote in the Senate you gotta hide the medicine in the iice cream.

So when the 2022 Senate Map depends on high black turnout in WI, PA, NC, to flip those seats and GA to keep Warnocks seat

When black folk asks "where is the medicine", what should the Dems' answer be?

 

[RustyShackleford]

I really think the break down between most in this thread and osh kosh bosh is that we all know the system is rigged and that is unfair

Most are pissed at how unfair the system is, and how it distorts American politics, and focus their anger there

Osh is pissed at the Dems for not triangulating to beat said unfair system and focuses his anger there.

And that might be a function of most in here having to live in his hell, while he is lucky to live in a more representative democracy.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

So when the 2022 Senate Map depends on high black turnout in WI, PA, NC, to flip those seats and GA to keep Warnocks seat

When black folk asks "where is the medicine", what should the Dems' answer be?

like i said there is a goldilocks zone.
Barack always thread the needle perfectly.

imo "this race neutral program helps black people" is better than "this program is about fixing the racial wealth gap"

and while it may seem like a fine distinction i think it's important. but minds can differ.

 

[gry60]

this i definitely don't agree. The mismanagement of covid19 flipped a bunch of white people.

FTFY.

And even then, he didn't win the white vote the way he should have. 41% of them voted for him.

 

[Present]

All I know is there is no racism w/o capitalism in this country.

The two are one in the same here.

To believe that black people can fight racism with capitalism is foolish.

Gotta fight capitalism with socialism. Fight racism with solidarity.

Its the only way.

 

[RustyShackleford]

like i said there is a goldilocks zone.
Barack always thread the needle perfectly.

imo "this race neutral program helps black people" is better than "this program is about fixing the racial wealth gap"

and while it may seem like a fine distinction i think it's important. but minds can differ.

Your data point of threading the needle perfectly is a once-in-a-lifetime political talent that admits these times are different and he would run a different campaign than he did in the past.

And again, I think there is clear evidence of Booker talking about baby bonds in exactly the way you described. The issue is, he explicitly said HOW it helps black people. Not that even he said the main point of his policy was closing the racial wealth gap

If there is a Goldilocks zone, I think people are overestimating how easy it is to find. Because in the end, you are still making a request for the Dems to do something unseen in American politics.. And that is ****ing hard.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I live on a province run by Donald Trump lite,

who came to power by radcalizong a coalition of white people, long settled suburban immigrants, and Somali community against the welfare state.

And he didn't need gerrymandering or segregation or electoral college to do it...

Multi ethnic democracies are fragile.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Your data point of threading the needle perfectly is a once-in-a-lifetime political talent that admits these times are different and he would run a different campaign than he did in the past.

And again, I think there is clear evidence of Booker talking about baby bonds in exactly the way you described. The issue is, he explicitly said HOW it helps black people. Not that he said the main point of his policy was closing the racial wealth gap

If there is a Goldilocks zone, I think people are overestimating how easy it is to find. Because in the end, you are still making a request for the Dems to do something unseen in American politics.. And that is ****ing hard.

You could be right. It's def not easy

And Barack is the GOAT.

I will say it worries me how kinda negatively some younger prograssivea look at 08 Baracks politica. When imo he's obviously the goat of this stuff.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I live on a province run by Donald Trump lite,

who came to power by radcalizong a coalition of white people, long settled suburban immigrants, and Somali community against the welfare state.

And he didn't need gerrymandering or segregation or electoral college to do it...

Multi ethnic democracies are fragile.

Yeah, but that is kinda equivalent of living in a red state

On a national level, you still got the benefit of living under a parliamentary system where liberal votes are better geographically dispersed.

Imagine how much more scary Canada would be if its electoral system was US-level ****ed up.

If Trudeau and the liberals had to win 54-56 of the vote share every two years to prevent your country from being controlled by hundreds of Doug Fords.

 

[RustyShackleford]

You could be right. It's def not easy

And Barack is the GOAT.

I will say it worries me how kinda negatively some younger prograssivea look at 08 Baracks politica. When imo he's obviously the goat of this stuff.

Yeah this is worrying

But I think 2012 Obama has much better lessons for modern times. Obama 2012 beat Romney's *** with class politics. And he sold it in a way people could easily digest.

 

[dacomeup]

It seems to me the inescapable conclusion is we have to find a way to sneak this **** past white people.

The monumental wins for Black people in this country haven't worked this way, at all.

 

[aepps20]

Damn, sounds familiar.

aepps20 , care to comment?

Very familiar indeed famb. I wonder if RustyShackleford is Black?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Yeah, but that is kinda equivalent of living in a red state

On a national level, you still got the benefit of living under a parliamentary system where liberal votes are better geographically dispersed.

Imagine how much more scary Canada would be if its electoral system was US-level ****ed up.

If Trudeau and the liberals had to win 54-56 of the vote share every two years to prevent your country from being controlled by hundreds of Doug Fords.

To be fair mal apportionment benefited the liberals.

Consertives would have won if the last election was a straight up popular vote.

 

[dinyc3st]

@dwalk31 your boy’s lawyer

That "cough" wasn't by coincidence LOL

 

[dinyc3st]

It all makes sense now.

 

[Sharpshoeter13]

5 grand?!??!

 

[RustyShackleford]

To be fair mal apportionment benefited the liberals.

Consertives would have won if the last election was a straight up popular vote.

See

Imagine how frustrating if the Canadian liberals had to chase dumb *** conservative voters to see sense

If America was rigged in favor of liberals, dudes in here would be able to breathe as lil easier.

**** stressful down here brah

 

[mplsdunk]

they better not pay those bills...