***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[osh kosh bosh]

I initially understood you the way RustyShackleford did. Your clarification was helpful.

But aside, from this particular example, you don't seem to be addressing Rusty's point that the right wing propaganda machine is very, very good at getting swing voters to worry about fabricated issues. It's not like you can just disavow tan suits or embrace Dr. Seusss and you've solved everything. It's easier to manufacture lies than it is to refute them. So your approach would have Dems on an ever-moving treadmill of throwing stupid stuff under the bus. And that would certainly start to look like they were back footed.

I don't pretend to know what the answer is for a well-funded, extremely effective propaganda system is. But I don't think it's as simple as "just agree with the nonsense for now".

yes the right wing propaganda machine is good it's not magic tho.
if you play into their hands it makes it easier, if you cut against it makes it harder.

Joe Biden came out against defund the police and it made it harder to tar him as some left wing radical on policing.
If he said nothing, or worse endorsed it it would have been easier.

you can't just give up and say well the right wing propaganda machine exists i guess nothing we can do.

You can address people's legitimate concerns, in this case access to child care, without throwing reasonable people under the bus. The fact that there are fewer teachers than gullible parents is not a justification for endangering their safety. Tyranny of the majority and all that.

we are not talking about something cut and dry an uncontestable.

What level of risk is appropriate re-open schools?
what level of vaccination before we can drop mask mandates?
What level of risk is acceptable to drop 6 feet distancing?

the standard can't be 0% risk. so if im a politician, if the question is contestable I think you shade towards the opinions of the electorate.



fundamentally who is going to be better for teachers, republicans or democrats?

If rhetorically spanking teachers helps elect democrats, I think teachers should say "thank you may have another. "

 

[dacomeup]

how exactly is a group that is 74% college educated women NOT going to get more progressive over the last 10-20 years?

Yea, they are definitely more progressive but they aren’t meaningfully affective the progressiveness of school curriculums in that way. Like looking at the AP exam for example, Beloved by Toni Morrison has been on the last 20ish exams. Just because the racist right wingers are now being made aware of the book doesn’t mean that the schools are becoming “so left wing”.

 

[noskey]

oat milk >

Bought me some apple Jack's for the first time in YEEEAAARRSSS, maybe a decade, last month when I discovered oat milk. Avoided almond milk for the longest because environment and water shortages. But oat milk? My man! Can enjoy some damb cereal again without ****ting my brains out an hour later

 

[balldontlie206]

I understand this dudes admiration of Joey Manchin now

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Yea, they are definitely more progressive but they aren’t meaningfully affective the progressiveness of school curriculums in that way. Like looking at the AP exam for example, Beloved by Toni Morrison has been on the last 20ish exams. Just because the racist right wingers are now being made aware of the book doesn’t mean that the schools are becoming “so left wing”.

I didn't say that curriculums were more progressives.
i didn't say schools have gotten so left wing, I said teachers have.

teachers are more progressive, so the small minority of teachers who inject their politics into their teaching
in unpopular ways, a higher percentage of them are left wing.

thus making it easy for right wingers to make them representative of teachers by proxy democrats.

I gave the example of the problematic book burning thing that happened in Quebec.
do i think most teachers are burning books no?

but a goofy teacher who would do this is more likely to be left wing, because teachers in general
are more likely to be left wing.


but im glad you at least you agree that teachers are more progressive than they use to be,
I guess i didn't need to step foot into a classroom to deduce that?

 

[biggie62]

Damn all this lactose intolerance in this thread. I can drink a gallon of milk and it doesn’t even phase me. For those that are lactose intolerant, goats milks might be a bit easier to digest. It is pricier tho.

 

[PatRiley]

If I see someone down a full glass of cow milk, I immediately think they have psychopathic tendencies.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I didn't say that curriculums were more progressives.
i didn't say schools have gotten so left wing, I said teachers have.

teachers are more progressive, so the small minority of teachers who inject their politics into their teaching
in unpopular ways, a higher percentage of them are left wing.

thus making it easy for right wingers to make them representative of teachers by proxy democrats.

I gave the example of the problematic book burning thing that happened in Quebec.
do i think most teachers are burning books no?

but a goofy teacher who would do this is more likely to be left wing, because teachers in general
are more likely to be left wing.


but im glad you at least you agree that teachers are more progressive than they use to be,
I guess i didn't need to step foot into a classroom to deduce that?

Famb, there is tons of right-wing nonsense going on in America

Our textbooks are still ****, the teacher still has black kids pretend to be slaves in lessons, we get **** like this...


I think you really underestimate how much conservative politics is mandated and injected into the classroom

It is just that, conservatives give no attention to it, and liberals know these things happen all the time so an instance of such nonsense fades out of the public eye quickly

Sure, maybe the median politics of a teacher is more to the left than it was 20 years ago, but when it comes to buffoonery, right-wing buffoonery I would guess still dominates

It comes down to the propaganda machine

 

[RustyShackleford]

Damn all this lactose intolerance in this thread. I can drink a gallon of milk and it doesn’t even phase me. For those that are lactose intolerant, goats milks might be a bit easier to digest. It is pricier tho.

Brah once you are black and 30 plus, milk becomes a danger to your digestive system

It is like Lactose joined the NYPD, and it starts to use excessive force on our large intestines

#DefundOrganicValley

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Famb, there is tons of right-wing nonsense going on in America

Our textbooks are still ****, the teacher still has black kids pretend to be slaves in lessons, we get **** like this...


I think you really underestimate how much conservative politics is mandated and injected into the classroom

It is just that, conservatives give no attention to it, and liberals know these things happen all the time so an instance of such nonsense fades out of the public eye quickly

Sure, maybe the median politics of a teacher is more to the left than it was 20 years ago, but when it comes to buffoonery, right-wing buffoonery I would guess still dominates

It comes down to the propaganda machine

i get what you mean.
im not saying that there are 0% conservative weirdos in teaching.

i just think now more of the weirdos are progressive, because more teachers are progressive.

add in the propaganda machine; so now when the average person pictures "activist teacher"
they picture a democrat/progressive

 

[osh kosh bosh]

plus when you are in a peer group that leans to one direction blind spots naturally develop.

The only way a teacher gets a way with holding a problematic book burning indigenous ceremony
is if his peers didn't feel the need to check him on it that.

and natrually people give their own side more of the benefit of the doubt
than they would if some Christian conservative teacher wanted to burn Harry Potter or something.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

if you wanna se some triangulation. check my boy justin.


"Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau said it’s not up to non-Indigenous people “to tell Indigenous people how they should feel or act to advance reconciliation.”

“On a personal level, I would never agree to the burning of books,” Trudeau said."

 

[gry60]

I don't pretend to know what the answer is for a well-funded, extremely effective propaganda system is. But I don't think it's as simple as "just agree with the nonsense for now".

I'd argue that "just agree with the nonsense for now" is what the Democrats have been doing ever since they ditched labor in favor of the third way ideology.

teachers are more progressive, so the small minority of teachers who inject their politics into their teaching
in unpopular ways, a higher percentage of them are left wing.

You're gonna need to prove this.

We have textbooks in this country (yes, books) that paint African slaves as immigrants.

That's a lot more BS being pushed onto a whole district than a goofy teacher burning Mein Kampf in front of 20 students.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I'd argue that "just agree with the nonsense for now" is what the Democrats have been doing ever since they ditched labor in favor of the third way ideology.


You're gonna need to prove this.

We have textbooks in this country (yes, books) that paint African slaves as immigrants.

That's a lot more BS being pushed onto a whole district than a goofy teacher burning Mein Kampf in front of 20 students.

assuming there is an equal distribution of weirdo personalities on both sides of the isle.
if teachers are getting more progressive, which is a pretty safe bet given their demographic profile.

you don't think it's a relative safe bet that in the percentage of them that are goofy, more of the will also be progressive?


im not talking about text books im talking about teachers.

fundamentally unless you think there are significantly less extreme personality types who identify as progressive,
it seems to me im making a perfectly reasonable inference

 

[RustyShackleford]

i get what you mean.
im not saying that there are 0% conservative weirdos in teaching.

i just think now more of the weirdos are progressive, because more teachers are progressive.

add in the propaganda machine; so now when the average person pictures "activist teacher"
they picture a democrat/progressive

I think the status quo in America for quite a long time, and still now mostly, is to basically teach white lies and half-truths about certain subjects.

So the onus was on progressive and black parents, and their kids, to deal with it for the sake of peace

Once people tried to correct the ****** status quo, and people noticed, it became an issue

Sure some educators have overstepped, especially it seems in private schools. I think some of the new diversity and inclusion stuff is really counterproductive when applied in certain situations to certain age groups. But parents were cool with Columbus being spoken about in positive, and the North being written about as heroes in the Civil War.

Once you tell students about the genocide that came after, and the failures of reconstruction, that throws off the balance, and parents want to push back.A lot of these so-called activist teachers are just people that don't adhere strictly to the previous ****** status quo. That are not doing anything extreme

I also have a theory that parents don't want their kids to learn some really basic info not because they think their kids will feel shame, but they think their kids will now have the capacity to make them feel the same. Folk don't want "woke" kids

Kinda like the classic first year back from college trope, when a kid gets exposed to all kinds of new people and info and starts to point out to their parents how ignorant on certain subjects they are.

A lot of what is getting pushback are reasonable things. Not just goofiness that everyone is letting fly

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

you can't just give up and say well the right wing propaganda machine exists i guess nothing we can do.

Straw Man?

we are not talking about something cut and dry an uncontestable.

If you want to argue nuance, then you’re going to have to be specific. What particular policy did VA teachers support that you think TMac could have rhetorically dismissed because it was arguably unnecessary.?

I’m not super familiar with VA intricacies at that level because I live just over the Potomac.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I see they are wasting no time

Apprently this is go after all the social justice advocates that got elected in NoVa over the years

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I think the status quo in America for quite a long time, and still now mostly, is to basically teach white lies and half-truths about certain subjects.

So the onus was on progressive and black parents, and their kids, to deal with it for the sake of peace

Once people tried to correct the ****ty status quo, and people noticed, it became an issue

Sure some educators have overstepped, especially it seems in private schools. I think some of the new diversity and inclusion stuff is really counterproductive when applied in certain situations to certain age groups. But parents were cool with Columbus being spoken about in positive, and the North being written about as heroes in the Civil War.

Once you tell students about the genocide that came after, and the failures of reconstruction, that throws off the balance, and parents want to push back.A lot of these so-called activist teachers are just people that don't adhere strictly to the previous ****ty status quo. That are not doing anything extreme

I also have a theory that parents don't want their kids to learn some really basic info not because they think their kids will feel shame, but they think their kids will now have the capacity to make them feel the same. Folk don't want "woke" kids

Kinda like the classic first year back from college trope, when a kid gets exposed to all kinds of new people and info and starts to point out to their parents how ignorant on certain subjects they are.

A lot of what is getting pushback are reasonable things. Not just goofiness that everyone is letting fly

totally fair.

im not making a value judgment on how progressive or not schools have become.
i think its reasonable to conclude hey a lot of schools aren't progressive enough on racial matters.

i don't think it's really that hard to triangulate on this issue. It's like Justin.

I most Canadians support with most truth and reconciliation initiatives.
but book burning is obviously silly.

so Justin says book burning is bad, but we should teach our entire history.
seems like democrats should be able to do the same.

 

[aepps20]

Milk is a American as it gets second to Racism.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Milk is a American as it gets second to Racism.

The avy

My Suns

 

[aepps20]

The avy

My Suns

OUR Suns fam. This is why I'm a Huge fan.

 

[ShoeGameBoss]

The avy

My Suns

Your Suns and Your Lakers

 

[dinyc3st]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Straw Man?

you were saying doing stuff to counteract right wing propaganda, puts you on the back foot and therefore is not worth doing?
that sounds to me like do nothing no? what should you do if not find ways to combat those things rhetorically?

If you want to argue nuance, then you’re going to have to be specific. What particular policy did VA teachers support that you think TMac could have rhetorically dismissed because it was arguably unnecessary.?

I’m not super familiar with VA intricacies at that level because I live just over the Potomac.

this is all hindsight, but from what i've been reading there was frustration with how fast school were opening up in northern Virginia.

id be aggressive, Id come out and agree that teachers took too long to re open,
and that i would do some type of pledge that as governor would never agree to an extended school closure again.


for the CRT complaints, I would say we need to teach all of history the good and the bad,
frame it patriotically, it's part of being american, working towards a more perfect union blah blah

but id come out against one of those robin DeAngelo style equity programs that say stuff like;
reverence of the written word is white supremacist.
pick a fight with some schoolboard and make it clear you think that stuff is crazy.

also id try putting a hard deadline on the school mask mandates.
put a number on it, once we reach x% vaccinated we are ending mask mandates.

 

[Nike Jordan]