***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

74% of teachers are college educated women


of course they aren't,

my point is it's a big country.
It's bell curve, the vast vast majority of teachers are normal and don't peddle progressive politics.

but some small small percentage of people do it,
and if the profession shifts leftward even by a couple points you get more extreme outlier people


then the right wing propaganda machine then uses the outlier examples, and uses it to tar all teachers and democrats by proxy.

Notice how this was missing from your original analysis

This is a massively important point

Goofy **** happened 20 years ago too. Probably more right-wing goofy **** happens now

It is that the right-wing propaganda machine is more effective.

The Dems simply throwing teachers under the bus probably won't fix a damn thing except for scratch the itch of people that obsess about "too much wokeness"

 

[osh kosh bosh]

See below. It's an irrelevant question and quite obvious for someone who has never been in the American school system. You're just eating up right wing talking points and being bothered by Becky in the break room (as usual).

Im not eating up any right wing talking, my point is that the right wing uses outliers as propaganda.

Teachers are 74% women with college degree.

Education polarization has been steadily increasing.
The gender voting gap has been growing since 2014 according to pew.
and age polarization has been increasing over time.

given those conditions
how exactly is a group that is 74% college educated women NOT going to get more progressive over the last 10-20 years?

 

[Mark Antony]

Any liberalism in schools is mostly surface and performative (atleast when I went). You'd still have to have an independent interest to learn black history properly. Which is why it's annoying with these people wanting even less than that.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Notice how this was missing from your original analysis

This is a massively important point

Goofy **** happened 20 years ago too. Probably more right-wing goofy **** happens now

It is that the right-wing propaganda machine is more effective.

I made multiple posts on this subject, In an earlier one I already pointed to right wing propagandists like chris Ruffo.

don't underestimate how left wing the teaching profession has become.
and it's really easy for someone like Christopher Ruffo to pull up something crazy sounding

The Dems simply throwing teachers under the bus probably won't fix a damn thing except for scratch the itch of people that obsess about "too much wokeness"

i disagree if swing voters are mad at teachers and think they should go back to the classroom or whatever.
publicly agreeing with voters at being mad at the teachers might help you win those swing voters.

now you may not want to do that, because other values or ideological commitments ect ect.
but I don't see why it wouldn't help. seems like voters would like it when you agree with them.

 

[dwalk31]

you can believe it or not. im not using it as evidence of anything.

I was like 5 or 6 years old.

The funny thing is in my memory I was still one of the only black kids in my class.
but then again im told it was a private school in the white part of Birmingham I belive so maybe it was just segregation at work?

I didn’t realize you were black. Or at least I forgot.

 

[blastercombo]

“Liberalism” is anything that isn’t Christian based. Science is an example of that to an extent. History is now a topic of discussion. Remember in the 2000’s when Darwinian theory was the hot button? Evolution is fighting against the Bible? Shortly after Harry potter was pulled off shelves for satinism.

White christian Americans move closer and closer to radical Islamic rule and don’t even know it.

 

[blastercombo]

I didn’t realize you were black. Or at least I forgot.

We do realize you want to control womens privates. Why?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Im not eating up any right wing talking, my point is that the right wing uses outliers as propaganda.

Teachers are 74% women with college degree.

Education polarization has been steadily increasing.
The gender voting gap has been growing since 2014 according to pew.
and age polarization has been increasing over time.

given those conditions
how exactly is a group that is 74% college educated women NOT going to get more progressive over the last 10-20 years?

So your point is that right-wing media would use outliers to their benefit? Yeah, um ok.

Wouldn't that happen even if the politics of educators were exactly the same as they were in 2000

You don't have any evidence of outlier actually being more prevalent, or that educators have pushed their politics in the classroom on aggregate more.

It is just a massive assumption that you expect us to accept.

And when we don't, you circle back and say your point is bad faith actors act in bad faith.

 

[Based Jesus]

Saying "don't do something or else conservatives" isn't helpful or insightful. American conservatives make everything to the left of the driver's side door into an issue so that they can invent grievances to solve for their base instead of tackling the actual issues plaguing them. A man wearing a tan suit was an issue.

I went to school in America, was teaching in an american classroom just a few years ago and intimately know someone currently teaching in an american classroom.

Schools are no more noticeably liberal now than they were then and even in liberal areas they weren't really that liberal then.

Oversight isn't so lenient that there can be an epidemic of teachers who feel comfortable enough to espouse far left ideals.

All that has really changed is the treatment of the children. That's it. And barely that. Conservatives are still fighting giving kids free food, letting them grow their hair how long they want and letting them use whichever bathroom they like.

 

[dwalk31]

It’s clear that osh kosh bosh understands good messaging better than many in here. Or, even if others understand it, he accepts that it must be done to accomplish certain goals.

As I said under the prior administration, watered-down legislation is often better than none. So the question is, who is best-equipped to get the important legislation passed?

The reality is the country still leans right. Some progressive messaging makes it easier for those on the right to create talking points to discourage progress. It isn’t complicated.

Instead of discussing the issues on the merits, many on the far left think it makes more sense to disparage the other side: say they are dumb, ignorant, corrupt, etc. But that doesn’t generally help to get the legislation passed.

My approach is more pragmatic. Slow progress is better than none.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

So your point is that right-wing media would use outliers to their benefit? Yeah, um ok.

Wouldn't that happen even if the politics of educators were exactly the same as they were in 2000

You don't have any evidence of outlier actually being more prevalent, or that educators have pushed their politics in the classroom on aggregate more.

It is just a massive assumption that you expect us to accept.

And when we don't, you circle back and say your point is bad faith actors act in bad faith.

if you move the bell curve to the left, the left outliers are also further to the left?
it's a big country population continues to grow, you have more outliers that are further to the left.
I think these are pretty reasonable assumptions.

So while most teachers don't think you need remove George Washington or Abraham Lincoln form school names
while the schools remained closed during the pandemic.

San Francisco school board does, and that gets weaponized by right wing media.


yes bad faith actors act in bad faith and democrats shouldn't just ignore this and chalk it up to anti-CRT racist.
you have to address peoples concerns, you can't pretend they don't exist. and be mindful of not playing into them.


IMO T-Macs "i don't think parents should decide what goes ion in classrooms"
no way that comes out of your mouth if you are really taking the mood of the electorate to heart.

 

[blastercombo]

It’s clear that osh kosh bosh understands good messaging better than many in here. Or, even if others understand it, he accepts that it must be done to accomplish certain goals.

As I said under the prior administration, watered-down legislation is often better than none. So the question is, who is best-equipped to get the important legislation passed?

The reality is the country still leans right. Some progressive messaging makes it easier for those on the right to create talking points to discourage progress. It isn’t complicated.

Instead of discussing the issues on the merits, many on the far left think it makes more sense to disparage the other side: say they are dumb, ignorant, corrupt, etc. But that doesn’t generally help to get the legislation passed.

My approach is more pragmatic. Slow progress is better than none.

And this is proof that osh kosh bosh was worth the block

 

[RustyShackleford]

While people insist that somehow the Dems problems are based on progressive politics, this is happening...

 

[osh kosh bosh]

And this is proof that osh kosh bosh was worth the block

stop tagging me then.

says he hates me but stays tagging me in every other post, writing love / hate letters.
what is the point of this?

 

[gry60]

If it is true that many parents of school aged children found them unreasonable

How many? A million of parents is a lot, but that's nothing in a community of 10 million parents.

It sounds like the whole vaccine thing, where a large majority of Americans actually favor mandates, but the voices of the tiny minority get amplified beyond reason.

It's a propaganda issue, and Democrats don't have the will to organize and counter the right-wing amplifiers with a unified message that tugs at Americans' emotions.

 

[IATT]

It’s clear that osh kosh bosh understands good messaging better than many in here.

this was a "good" messenger to you the last couple of years

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Saying "don't do something or else conservatives" isn't helpful or insightful. American conservatives make everything to the left of the driver's side door into an issue so that they can invent grievances to solve for their base instead of tackling the actual issues plaguing them. A man wearing a tan suit was an issue.

People in this thread were dismissing the teacher stuff as just racist white people mad about CRT.
Terry Mcauliff really went on a debate stage that said “I don’t think parents should be telling schools what they should teach.”

and then in an interview after the fact doubled down on it. “Everybody clapped when I said it.”

Maybe what im saying is obvious, but democrats sure aren't behaving like it's obvious.

Schools are no more noticeably liberal now than they were then and even in liberal areas they weren't really that liberal then.

again im asking you maybe im stupid

Teachers are 74% women with college degree.

Education polarization has been steadily increasing.
The gender voting gap has been growing since 2014 according to pew.
and age polarization has been increasing over time.

given those conditions
how exactly is a group that is 74% college educated women NOT going to get more progressive over the last 10-20 years?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

How many? A million of parents is a lot, but that's nothing in a community of 10 million parents.

It sounds like the whole vaccine thing, where a large majority of Americans actually favor mandates, but the voices of the tiny minority get amplified beyond reason.

It's a propaganda issue, and Democrats don't have the will to organize and counter the right-wing amplifiers with a unified message that tugs at Americans' emotions.

I dunno maybe enough to lose an election in biden +10 Virginia?

 

[RustyShackleford]

if you move the bell curve to the left, the left outliers are also further to the left?
it's a big country population continues to grow, you have more outliers that are further to the left.
I think these are pretty reasonable assumptions.

So while most teachers don't think you need remove George Washington or Abraham Lincoln form school names
while the schools remained closed during the pandemic.

San Francisco school board does, and that gets weaponized by right wing media.


yes bad faith actors act in bad faith and democrats shouldn't just ignore this and chalk it up to anti-CRT racist.
you have to address peoples concerns, you can't pretend they don't exist. and be mindful of not playing into them.


IMO T-Macs "i don't think parents should decide what goes ion in classrooms"
no way that comes out of your mouth if you are really taking the mood of the electorate to heart.

-We don't know if the movement in the distributions is a laterally shift. The ideological shift could have just changed the shape of the left-wing distribution.

Which would move some of the measures of central tenacity ...

So if you want to use simple statistics to conceptualize your analysis, then I will naturally question how you are modeling the changes in the distributions

And you have offered nothing to prove your claimed type of shift except for saying we should accept the assumption

-You are conflating Administrators, school boards, teachers, and teachers unions

T-Mac is a hardcore centrist, his comments were bad to say but saying don't directly offer up red meat to your opponent, it is a different argument that suggests you need to actively throw teachers under the bus to push back on the criticism.

If you want to act like people aren't understanding what your point is, then flush it out better. Because I am having a tough time following

 

[1995]

Patiently waiting for the day when I see one of Osh's posts pop up on r/enlightenedcentrism

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

osh kosh bosh , if you want to make this “higher chance of outliers” claim, then really you should be looking at changes in kurtosis (fat tales) and not mean shifts. Outliers are relative to the mean and so mean shifts aren’t relevant.

I actually agree that there is some blowback for keeping schools closed. Too bad Joey is doing his best to keep the Dems from actually addressing the issues of working parents.

 

[RustyShackleford]

It’s clear that osh kosh bosh understands good messaging better than many in here. Or, even if others understand it, he accepts that it must be done to accomplish certain goals.

As I said under the prior administration, watered-down legislation is often better than none. So the question is, who is best-equipped to get the important legislation passed?

The reality is the country still leans right. Some progressive messaging makes it easier for those on the right to create talking points to discourage progress. It isn’t complicated.

Instead of discussing the issues on the merits, many on the far left think it makes more sense to disparage the other side: say they are dumb, ignorant, corrupt, etc. But that doesn’t generally help to get the legislation passed.

My approach is more pragmatic. Slow progress is better than none.

This is easily one of the most pathetic posts you have made in here

 

[dwalk31]

This is easily one of the most pathetic posts you have made in here

Completely predictable response. And it actually illustrates my point.

 

[RustyShackleford]

osh kosh bosh , if you want to make this “higher chance of outliers” claim, then really you should be looking at changes in kurtosis (fat tales) and not mean shifts. Outliers are relative to the mean and so mean shifts aren’t relevant.

I actually agree that there is some blowback for keeping schools closed. Too bad Joey is doing his best to keep the Dems from actually addressing the issues of working parents.

Specify the Joey

because Biden isn't the Joey acting the fool right now

It is Osh's Coal Covered King Manchin

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

Specify the Joey

I‘m too lazy to do the all caps multiple vowel thing. But, yes, the Senator from WV.