***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[1995]

Is that the new moral elitist term?

Yes

I learned it at my last Antifa brunch

 

[boris]

Is that the new moral elitist term?

What haven't I been clear on?

If progressives want depress themselves because others "failed" them, it's fine with me

Multiple people have asked about some of your comments. Maybe you can read those posts to figure it out? You know, follow your own advice.

Or you could do a better job reading

 

[thehealthinspector]

Multiple people have asked about some of your comments. Maybe you can read those posts to figure it out? You know, follow your own advice.

Did they "ask"?

Or did they start jumping to conclusions based on their own projections?

The original comment I responded to was detailing this "depressive" "reality", I laughed at it, and now people are up in arms for whatever reason

Probably because being depressed about the outcome isn't that posters fault... yeah, okay, sure

 

[Nike Jordan]

Always irritates me in real life when they bring up Nancy or AOC out of nowhere. "Now could Trump have talked better, sure but Nancy's constituence is actually a ****hole".

You gotta hit 'em with the "Sir, this is a Wendy's." line.

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[boris]

Did they "ask"?

Or did they start jumping to conclusions based on their own projections?

The original comment I responded to was detailing this "depressive" "reality", I laughed at it, and now people are up in arms for whatever reason

Probably because being depressed about the outcome isn't that posters fault... yeah, okay, sure

There are multiple posts requesting you elaborate, including one from me.

I don’t think you understand what projecting is. You want people to decipher what you’re saying but you’re getting mad when they jump to conclusions.

 

[thehealthinspector]

There are multiple posts requesting you elaborate, including one from me.

I don’t think you understand what projecting is. You want people to decipher what you’re saying but you’re getting mad when they jump to conclusions.

"You reject reality and facts"?

This has projection written all over it, does it not?

Like, absolutely zero attempts at an honest discussion about facts or reality

I made a comment about progressive depression, and moral elitists didn't like it, I'm shocked

Must be this "rotten" country that has me desensitized

 

[osh kosh bosh]

1. Literally burning books is not equivalent to professional development.

1. "professional development" is a hilarious euphemism
2. we were talking about the lord of flies example.
you don't need to go all the way to book burning to find stuff on the left that will turn off swing voters.
it's very easy.

2. Are you sure you aren’t a Republican? I just wasted 30 minutes of my life verifying that this talking point of 400k to get some controversial book revs is, of course, a bad faith representation of the facts.

a. The 400k was over at least 2 years

My guess is that the book recommendations were on one slide on one deck in a forest of material. Given everything else, I’m not inclined to take this seriously.

It doesn't matter if you take it seriously, it matters if swing voters do.

I need you to really try to imagine how this sounds to someone who is more conservative that you are.
and not a cartoon conservative, just some center left normie liberal.

Tema Okun says that, Worship of the Written word, Objectivity and Perfectionism are white supremacist culture.
all a conservative has to do is take that quote, put up how much was spent on it.
200k a year for someone who cites Robin Diangelo or Tema Okun is 199,999 dollars too many for most people.


The idea that you think "well it was 200k over two year" is a rebuttal to anything is wild to me
Bad faith representation of the facts is called politics

you opponents will represent your facts in bad faith to make you look bad.
you either let it happen, or do something about it.

b. The consulting fee was largely paid for assessment of gaps in diversity awareness of teaching staff and development of a customized professional development program to address these gaps.

\
So?
do you think that makes anyone who doesn't agree with you feel better?

Like if your school district paid 400k for some training and it cited David Duke as a resource,
would care if they said.."well akshually it was paid for assessments in gaps in teacher developmenblahblahblahblah"
cmon fam.

c. None of this was meant to be student-facing

so?
again this is politics, im not arguing about the merits of what ever goofy diversity training Virginia school board wants to pay for.

Swing voter :"you spent 400k on some diversity training that cites Robin Diangelo"
"well it wasn't meant to be student-facing"

what is the obvious response going to be;
"SO WHY DID YOU SPEND 400K ON IT???"

d. The firm they hired, The Equity Collaboration, seems to be staffed with relevant expertise. The background and bios don’t read as a bunch of radicals.

so? no one put a gun to their head and told them to cite robin diangelo,
the second they did that they became perfect propaganda material.

im progressive and im incredibly skeptical of the "expertise" of any of this diversity equity and inclusion training.
what do you think a swing voters is going to think of it?

e. I’m not an expert in this domain, but I have both consulted and hired consultants. Right wing reporting breathlessly clutched their pearls at $5k per day rates. That only seems high if you’ve never dealt with a consulting firm or are unaware that every hour on engagement necessitates many unpaid prep hours back home.

welll therein lies my point

guess what? most voters have not hired consultants,
so the fact that 5k day rate seems high to normal people is NOT GOOD.

 

[thehealthinspector]

Yes

I learned it at my last Antifa brunch

im sure there were progressives accusing people of homophobia for not supporting jussie at that brunch

"cant let these bigots bring our community ........................................................................... and jussie down"

 

[RustyShackleford]

-So we have reached a place where a consultant citing Robin DiAngelo is a clear example of something that would affect the election

We have no evidence of this, but we just gotta accept it

-And complaints about progressive actions regarding a bill that passed and most voted for anyway, and grievances about their supposed actions on something that happened years ago

Cool, this thread is in an amazing place

 

[RustyShackleford]

My favorite part is that they are mad at the teachers union.

They want them to address how they are gonna catch their kids up

And the first thing out their mouths is gonna require teachers to work more hours

Classic

When I was subbing and tutoring in Long Island before I went to grad school, I couldn't walk through town if a parent recognized me. I could be buying bagels, eating dinner with my family, running errands, in a date and these people felt it was part of my job to stop and talk to them about how they can improve their kid's grades.

Some of them got mad at me because I didn't want to tutor on weekends for the whole afternoon. (the reason I didn't because it would have been a fixed payment for the longer I stayed the lower my hourly wage)

Worse thing one did to me is when I was talking to this Bulgarian J1 student who was sunbathing on the beach topless. Ole girl was looking like she was signaling in me for the landing and this old white woman walks up to us and says "Miss could you put on some clothes, I need to talk to my son's teacher"

Me...

Hate this people's attitude man. Because I know they will only support the resources for their school districts. Not the kids that need it the lower-income kids that need it the most

 

[1995]

im sure there were progressives accusing people of homophobia for not supporting jussie at that brunch

"cant let these bigots bring our community ........................................................................... and jussie down"

This guy is mad as hell because "the progressives" won't let him malign members of a disenfranchised group with impunity

You poor thing

 

[thehealthinspector]

This guy is mad as hell because "the progressives" won't let him malign members of a disenfranchised group with impunity

You poor thing

im not mad at all

im just looking at everyone going "its kinda like racism... not really... but kinda" and going - no, its not, not at all

white transgender people are not experiencing racism or the equivalent of racism, not even close

 

[thehealthinspector]

Just because you can't seem to wrap your little head around the fact there there is a commonality between all forms of prejudice doesn't mean that it's not true

little head? here we go again with the elitism

really? commonality between forms of prejudice? they wouldnt really be forms of prejudice if they didnt have something in common would they?

if were going to continue to move forward with this idea of you being smarter and more morally elite than me, explain to my little head how non-racial forms of discrimination FAIL to convey whats being "experienced" and why racism is the only comparison that makes sense for people to use

 

[1995]

little head? here we go again with the elitism

really? commonality between forms of prejudice? they wouldnt really be forms of prejudice if they didnt have something in common would they?

if were going to continue to move forward with this idea of you being smarter and more morally elite than me, explain to my little head how non-racial forms of discrimination FAIL to convey whats being "experienced"

I'm not really interested in moving forward with someone whose primary motivator is the minimization of any type of discrimination that isn't racism

 

[thehealthinspector]

I'm not really interested in moving forward with someone whose primary motivator is the minimization of any type of discrimination that isn't racism

maybe it needs to be minimized if all we're going to do is compare it to racism

nope, its not like phyical disablement or mental disablement or age discrimination or any other form of non-racial discrimination, nope, just racism

 

[dathirstisreal]

Danvers fights efforts to expose high school hockey team’s alleged misconduct - The Boston Globe

School officials and police have yet to inform the community about the alleged violent racist and homophobic locker room behavior or details of virulent group text messages.

www.bostonglobe.com

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

1. "professional development" is a hilarious euphemism
2. we were talking about the lord of flies example.
you don't need to go all the way to book burning to find stuff on the left that will turn off swing voters.
it's very easy.



It doesn't matter if you take it seriously, it matters if swing voters do.

I need you to really try to imagine how this sounds to someone who is more conservative that you are.
and not a cartoon conservative, just some center left normie liberal.

Tema Okun says that, Worship of the Written word, Objectivity and Perfectionism are white supremacist culture.
all a conservative has to do is take that quote, put up how much was spent on it.
200k a year for someone who cites Robin Diangelo or Tema Okun is 199,999 dollars too many for most people.


The idea that you think "well it was 200k over two year" is a rebuttal to anything is wild to me
Bad faith representation of the facts is called politics

you opponents will represent your facts in bad faith to make you look bad.
you either let it happen, or do something about it.


\
So?
do you think that makes anyone who doesn't agree with you feel better?

Like if your school district paid 400k for some training and it cited David Duke as a resource,
would care if they said.."well akshually it was paid for assessments in gaps in teacher developmenblahblahblahblah"
cmon fam.


so?
again this is politics, im not arguing about the merits of what ever goofy diversity training Virginia school board wants to pay for.

Swing voter :"you spent 400k on some diversity training that cites Robin Diangelo"
"well it wasn't meant to be student-facing"

what is the obvious response going to be;
"SO WHY DID YOU SPEND 400K ON IT???"


so? no one put a gun to their head and told them to cite robin diangelo,
the second they did that they became perfect propaganda material.

im progressive and im incredibly skeptical of the "expertise" of any of this diversity equity and inclusion training.
what do you think a swing voters is going to think of it?




welll therein lies my point

guess what? most voters have not hired consultants,
so the fact that 5k day rate seems high to normal people is NOT GOOD.

I have neither the time nor inclination to go point but point having an argument with some imaginary voter in Appalachia via you as proxy. If you don’t agree that this is something out of nothing, then maybe we can talk. But I want your opinions on the issue, not the meta-issue.

That said, what I read from your approach to this argument is that you feel completely justified taking popular bad faith rhetoric on the right as evidence of liberal goofiness. Basically, if Fox media says it, and some “swing” voter agrees, then it is true enough. That rather than address the line of bad reasoning, we should instead address the initial action.

So now we need people to police their behavior to such an extent that a news network that made a multi-day issue out of a suit color will find nothing unimpeachable.

It’s an impossible standard, but I do see why it’s appealing to anyone who wants to paint progressives as the true problem in the country.

 

[IATT]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

So now we need people to police their behavior to such an extent that a news network that made a multi-day issue out of a suit color will find nothing unimpeachable.

It’s an impossible standard, but I do see why it’s appealing to anyone who wants to paint progressives as the true problem in the country.

dude you are not listening. no one needs to police their behavior.
im not painting anyone as the true problem

the point of my original comment, is in a large group of progressives, some of them will go too far;
not because they are uniquely bad or anything, its because they are humans,
and there is nothing you can do about that

so it's the job of a politician to triangulate and figure which parts of his base to denounce in order to win swing voters.
T-Mac clearly didn't do that on the school issue.

I have neither the time nor inclination to go point but point having an argument with some imaginary voter in Appalachia via you as proxy.

again you just want to imagine some cartoon Appalachia conservative.
try man, try to think about a regular shmegular non political junkie center left person.

you feel completely justified taking popular bad faith rhetoric on the right as evidence of liberal goofiness. Basically,
if Fox media says it, and some “swing” voter agrees, then it is true enough.

There is a kernel of truth to effective propaganda.
you just don't want to see it because you are too concerned with defending progressives.

telling people that their concerns are fake fox news propaganda is not really an argument.

If you don’t agree that this is something out of nothing, then maybe we can talk.

i already said, it's not totally nothing.

IMO CRT is being used as a label to brand a series of changes in blue state schools in over the past 5 years around diversity, equity and inclusion.
Some of is good, some very stupid and bad, and some of it fine.

I think it's crazy to pretend like nothing is happening.
trumped up, exaggerated, weaponized for propaganda? ...sure

but something is definitely happening

 

[boris]

"You reject reality and facts"?

This has projection written all over it, does it not?

Like, absolutely zero attempts at an honest discussion about facts or reality

I made a comment about progressive depression, and moral elitists didn't like it, I'm shocked

Must be this "rotten" country that has me desensitized

You also said you don’t buy into the “white” “racism” narrative and you haven’t elaborated on it or clarified what you meant. We can only draw our own conclusions.

 

[IATT]