***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[sonoftony]

more talk and mean tweets. *yawns*

the GOP cut their own off for less

 

[dinyc3st]

 

[gry60]

Map by Map, GOP Chips Away at Black Democrats' Power

More than 30 years ago, Robert Reives Sr. marched into a meeting of his county government in Sanford, North Carolina, with a demand: Create a predominantly Black district in the county, which was 23% Black at the time but had no Black representation, or face a lawsuit under the Voting Rights...

www.yahoo.com

 

[cedric ceballos]

This is a slightly under the influence take so take it as that.

But what would happen if the Dems went full scorched earth. Singled out Manchin and Sinema as the people holding stuff up and treated them in a way similar to how the GOP treated someone like Liz Cheney.

If Manchin and Sinema wont play ball, make them play ball or make it to where they’re in fear of their lives if they don’t play ball. Senate seats are on the line next November beyond those two so if there’s a way to apply pressure without leaving a paper trail. I see no harm in doing so.

 

[gry60]

This is a slightly under the influence take so take it as that.

But what would happen if the Dems went full scorched earth. Singled out Manchin and Sinema as the people holding stuff up and treated them in a way similar to how the GOP treated someone like Liz Cheney.

If Manchin and Sinema wont play ball, make them play ball or make it to where they’re in fear of their lives if they don’t play ball. Senate seats are on the line next November beyond those two so if there’s a way to apply pressure without leaving a paper trail. I see no harm in doing so.

This is what I've been saying (minus the personal threats, even though it could be argued that the GOP definitely uses stochastic terrorism methods to keep their legislators in line).

The Democratic leadership (Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, and Harris to a certain extent) has been unwilling to acknowledge that the entire GOP, from McConnell to anonymous foot soldiers, is at war with them, and they continue to give us naïve soundbites about working with them and "compromise".

How do you reason with a dog when it's set its mind on biting you? And what do you do to your family member who opens the front door and lets that dog in?

 

[cedric ceballos]

Politics is a dirty game, and the rules of engagement have changed.

In the case of someone like Manchin. He has his own priorities which conflict with the rest of the party. If he’s not willing to comprise and play ball and overplay his hand. I’m open to the idea of ostracizing him and making him a household name for all the wrong reasons.

It’s really a matter of what do you think you will or won’t get from someone like him and Sinema. But if they think they won’t get anything of substance. Put them on blast. Susan Collins and Jeff Flake talked a good game but ultimately fell in line with their party. If Manchin won’t do that. Whatever hostility he gets sent his way, (hopefully legit hostility which strikes fear in him to cooperate) is fair game to me.

 

[Wargames]

Glad to see everyone is 50% on page with me. First they need to kick Manchin out the party. Completely cut ties and if he caucuses with the Republicans good. Then Biden needs to be disrespectful with the Executive orders, finally voters should still say **** them all because they aren’t accomplishing ****.

You can’t tell me this play by Manchin wasn’t seeable from a million miles away. It’s why the progressives tied the two bills together. I don’t believe leadership was betrayed. They were either incompetent or knowingly sabotaging programs they felt was too left leaning. I mean Charlie Brown can’t kick a football, and Bluedogs like Manchin and Sinema have been the Lucy of the party since forever. What kind of idiot actually expects the Ball not to be yanked away when Charlie Brown is about to kick.

So once again I say don’t vote for any current moderate Dem in office, at best let’s primary them out and support their replacements. Why keep supporting idiots or crooks, who’ve shown they can’t get **** done?

 

[Mark Antony]

"don't talk hard to them" is always a great suggestion to someone paid millions to dig in their heels. Certainly they will change their tune and return the money if spoken to nicely.

 

[sonoftony]

I have 100% certainty that the Dems ain't finna do ****

 

[RustyShackleford]

Glad to see everyone is 50% on page with me. First they need to kick Manchin out the party. Completely cut ties and if he caucuses with the Republicans good. Then Biden needs to be disrespectful with the Executive orders, finally voters should still say **** them all because they aren’t accomplishing ****.

You can’t tell me this play by Manchin wasn’t seeable from a million miles away. It’s why the progressives tied the two bills together. I don’t believe leadership was betrayed. They were either incompetent or knowingly sabotaging programs they felt was too left leaning. I mean Charlie Brown can’t kick a football, and Bluedogs like Manchin and Sinema have been the Lucy of the party since forever. What kind of idiot actually expects the Ball not to be yanked away when Charlie Brown is about to kick.

So once again I say don’t vote for any current Dem in office, at best let’s primary them out and support their replacements. Why keep supporting idiots or crooks, who’ve shown they can’t get **** done?

Nah famb

I still think you are off the mark with your analysis and remedy

 

[Wargames]

Like you can’t even argue they need Manchin to protect Roe vs Wade because the Republicans are breaking it down regardless. Manchin as a Democrat serves no purpose and needs to be expelled as an example to others, Sinema too.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Like you can’t even argue they need Manchin to protect Roe vs Wade because the Republicans are breaking it down regardless. Manchin as a Democrat serves no purpose and needs to be expelled as an example to others, Sinema too.

They need Manchin to appoint as many judges as possible until the lose the Senate

In the grand scheme of things it might be small but a judge might be the difference in a civil rights case, or sentencing for drug case.

If Breyer drops dead. I rather Manchin caucus with the Dems.

I hate dude. I think people have every right to want to burn it down. But we shouldn't act like there are zero consequences to doing so.

 

[Wargames]

Nah famb

I still think you are off the mark with your analysis and remedy

That’s why I said 50%. My real remedy is fire all of them. It’s like a sports team at a certain point the main players become old and ineffective and you hit rock bottom and start collecting draft picks to prep for another run. That is where the Democrats are. This current crop of moderate, neo-liberals are out of touch and ineffective. The only thing worst would be corrupt, and the way the system is set up to benefit them, you got to be a reckless scumbag to get labeled with that title. Like Trump, Nunez, or Gaetz. The corruption is baked in.

So I am on that tank and start over game plan. They aren’t getting BBB passed, they aren’t getting voting rights passed, they aren’t adding judges to the the SC, they didn’t stop massive gerrymandering, the party is messed up and as you said they don’t have **** to run on but “we need help”. Yeah the Republicans are pieces of ****, but they haven’t even started to figure that out either.

****’em all.

 

[Wargames]

They need Manchin to appoint as many judges as possible until the lose the Senate

In the grand scheme of things it might be small but a judge might be the difference in a civil rights case, or sentencing for drug case.

If Breyer drops dead. I rather Manchin caucus with the Dems.

I hate dude. I think people have every right to want to burn it down. But we shouldn't act like there are zero consequences to doing so.

Lucy with the football…. It’s the bare minimum for a PR disaster.

 

[RustyShackleford]

That’s why I said 50%. My real remedy is fire all of them. It’s like a sports team at a certain point the main players become old and ineffective and you hit rock bottom and start collecting draft picks to prep for another run. That is where the Democrats are. This current crop of moderate, neo-liberals are out of touch and ineffective. The only thing worst would be corrupt, and the way the system is set up to benefit them, you got to be a reckless scumbag to get labeled with that title. Like Trump, Nunez, or Gaetz. The corruption is baked in.

So I am on that tank and start over game plan. They aren’t getting BBB passed, they aren’t getting voting rights passed, they aren’t adding judges to the the SC, they didn’t stop massive gerrymandering, the party is messed up and as you said they don’t have **** to run on but “we need help”. Yeah the Republicans are pieces of ****, but they haven’t even started to figure that out either.

****’em all.

This is just bad analysis imo

This is not sports

You are so concerned with progressives taking over the Democratic Party you are willing hand over power to the side you willingly admit is dangerous.

I don't see how doing exactly what conservatives what us to do is a sound political strategy.

 

[Wargames]

This is just bad analysis imo

This is not sports

You are so concerned with progressives taking over the Democratic Party you are willing hand over power to the side you willingly admit is dangerous.

I don't see how doing exactly what conservatives what us to do is a sound political strategy.

That’s my 100% strategy I am compromising (a dying art) and saying primary them out. Let’s get some more progressives in power. For example I live in NYC…. We have one, maybe two progressive congress members and that is a mistake. Yeah some places that wouldn’t be feasible, but there are a lot of places it is.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Lucy with the football…. It’s the bare minimum for a PR disaster.

This doesn't make sense to me.

So to clap back at Manchin screwing over the party, we need put Mitch McConnell back in power

 

[Wargames]

This doesn't make sense to me.

So to clap back at Manchin screwing over the party, we need put Mitch McConnell back in power

It’s not a clap back it’s possibly the only way Democrats could run on 2022 with the slogan “we need help”. Keep in mind it’s a long shot but even then you can’t go out there with a majority and say we need more Democrats in the Senate because of Manchin a Democrat not voting for us. You can go out there and say we need more Democrats because we don’t have the majority because we expelled Manchin for not supporting our liberal policies and voting rights.

The only way the Dems can come out of this is to make Manchin out as a no good piece of **** they expelled AND now we need help to actually get the right people in.

The Narratives around this have to be clear to explain to voters why they are failing. If Manchin is still in the party this turns into inner party ineffectiveness (which it is) but they still have time to make this a story about a rogue senator holding the country back (which it also is) before 2022 by expelling him.

 

[RustyShackleford]

That’s my 100% strategy I am compromising (a dying art) and saying primary them out. Let’s get some more progressives in power. For example I live in NYC…. We have one, maybe two progressive congress members and that is a mistake. Yeah some places that wouldn’t be feasible, but there are a lot of places it is.

Electing more progressives to the House doesn't fix much of anything though

It doesn't make a piece of legislation more likely to pass.

This situation ******* sucks. Really sucks. But I think seeking some retribution against Manchin or supposed enemies of progressives feels good in the moment but in practice it won't help much

If the Dems won all those close Senate races they loss over the past 5 years. Then BBB is probably 3.5 trillion and passed in September. We didn't, so Manchin gets to **** us over.

 

[RustyShackleford]

It’s not a clap back it’s possibly the only way Democrats could run on 2022 with the slogan “we need help”. Keep in mind it’s a long shot but even then you can’t go out there with a majority and say we need more Democrats in the Senate because of Manchin a Democrat not voting for us. You can go out there and say we need more Democrats because we don’t have the majority because we expelled Manchin for not supporting our liberal policies and voting rights.

The only way the Dems can come out of this is to make Manchin out as a no good piece of **** they expelled AND now we need help to actually get the right people in.

The Narratives around this have to be clear to explain to voters why they are failing. If Manchin is still in the party this turns into inner party ineffectiveness (which it is) but they still have time to make this a story about a rogue senator holding the country back (which it also is) before 2022 by expelling him.

So we give Mitch control of the Senate a year early for long shot political message.

Umm, sorry famb. That just seems like making a ****** up situation worse.

 

[Wargames]

Electing more progressives to the House doesn't fix much of anything though

It doesn't make a piece of legislation more likely to pass.

This situation ****ing sucks. Really sucks. But I think seeking some retribution against Manchin or supposed enemies of progressives feels good in the moment but in practice it won't help much

If the Dems won all those close Senate races they loss over the past 5 years. Then BBB is probably 3.5 trillion and passed in September. We didn't, so Manchin gets to **** us over.

It might have helped them keeping the two bills tied. Don’t forget they got Republicans to come over and help split it. This didn’t happen in a bubble. The Moderates went and got help to cut the progressives out of the deal.

 

[Wargames]

So we give Mitch control of the Senate a year early for long shot political message.

Umm, sorry famb. That just seems like making a ****ed up situation worse.

Once again, either they take that chance or they are screwed. It’s not like they really control the Senate. I mean that, there is a legitimate chance nothing else passes outside of funding bills between now and 2022

 

[RustyShackleford]

Listen I understand the frustration

I am furious myself

But maybe because I resigned myself to things not getting that much better because the Dems did not get a blowout in 2020. I have been predicting Manchin will **** things up for months

It sucks, but these plans come off as a way to cope with the disappointment. Which I completely understand, but that doesn't mean it is a solid plan to actually make things better.

 

[RustyShackleford]

It might have helped them keeping the two bills tied. Don’t forget they got Republicans to come over and help split it. This didn’t happen in a bubble. The Moderates went and got help to cut the progressives out of the deal.

Most progressives voted for BIF. By like a huge margin

It was a miscalculation, but there is a good chance a progressive thinks that they needed to give Biden a win too.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Once again, either they take that chance or they are screwed. It’s not like they really control the Senate. I mean that, there is a legitimate chance nothing else passes outside of funding bills between now and 2022

I'll take the judges from now until 2023

I'm tired of the left ignoring the judiciary

I don't know how a few more progressives in the House can hold so much value but 40 Federal judges can be handwaved.